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UnderGround Forums >> Silva: I Prefer Jones; GSP Is No Good


7/2/13 11:56 AM
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Motivated Penn
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Motivated Penn - I think GSP and Anderson Silva are very concerned about their legacy. They know how quickly you go from being considered an all time great to dropping off that list completely. One loss is all it takes.

So from a rational perspective, I understand their hesitance to fight the champion in the higher weight class.

However, I would give massive respect to whoever does decide to roll the dice, go up and risk being humiliated.

Case in point:

BJ Penn. If he'd have done what GSP did, what Anderson did, and just kept crushing guys at LW, instead of constantly take on bigger, younger guys, nobody would doubt his status as a legend. Now, a lot of people do, they give no credit to fighters taking on bigger guys, what matters is the length of your win streak, unfortunately.
Jones is concerned about his legacy as well. He directly said as much in a recent quote I posted.

The difference is that Andy and Jones are willing to do it...:-) Phone Post

If they are both willing to do it, and I will believe that when I see them both in the cage with the door slamming shut, then I give massive props to them both, but Anderson the most, by far. That's a great fight.
7/2/13 12:50 PM
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Shoryuken Rw
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LILBROCK, I don't have time to get involved in the LayNGay scuffle but you're right.

For everyone who keeps mentioning how great Silva is for moving up and fighting above his weight class, he fought fucking bumbs. Jones would absolutely destroy low level HW fighters comparable to guys like Stephen Bonnar.

This weight/reach argument trying to discredit Jones is getting old. Like someone already pointed out Jones will have a reach advantage at HW too so why does it matter? Should we just have him fight Lions bare handed because men can't compete with his reach? Learn to adapt, that's what fighters do, they try to neutralize another fighters strengths.

As far as his weight, I would bet my paycheck that half of the guys Jones has faced we're within 5 lbs of his weight. 5 pounds is not going to make you come out on top.

Guys talk about how great Anderson is for fighting bumbs a class above well into his prime but expect Jones to fight fucking monsters like Cain, JDS or Overeem at HW. It's because you're haters who just want him to lose, keep hoping and I hope you hold your breath.

At least Jones says he plans on moving up and fighting real competition a weight class above. Jones GOAT. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 2:39 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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LILBROCK - So now height and reach are the end all be all when it comes to size? Fun little fact for you. The UFC uses weight classes and we don't know what fighters weigh on fight night. They do not use height classes nor arm length classes.

If height is such an advantage, why don't you bring up Anderson? You do know that he has never faced a MW in the UFC taller than him and that Lutter was the only one who matched him at 6'2", right? He has been taller than Leben and every single title defense in the UFC. Why don't you ever bring that up?
No, weight, height, and wingspan are the three major factors of size. Jones has them all against him competition. One the rare occassion someone is a similar weight, they still lose the other two categories.

You'll get it one day. Its pretty simple really. Phone Post
7/2/13 3:03 PM
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Glovegate
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He's right about you picking numbers, Mike.  Come on, brother.

 

You use 226 for Jones even though there are many others that are lower.

You use 194 for GSP even though his most recent statement lays out, in plain English, that he is 185-190 at his largest.  (You sadly excuse this by saying he was trying to avoid a fight with Anderson.  Borderline bashing to prove your point, calling GSP a coward)

And you use 198 for Anderson, which I believe is his lowest ever known MW, in-cage weight.  Most of the time, he is apparently around 200.  Soares said 200-203, iirc.

 

And as for the size argument, never has a bigger deal been made about a couple of inches on either side, from finger tip to finger tip.  I can only laugh as I imagine your position do a complete 180 if the UFC were to ever start measuring reach properly and the new measurements happened to show Anderson had a major advantage over all his opponents.

Don't dig in to deep on one side, brother.  You never know.  ;)

7/2/13 3:19 PM
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ABE FROMAN
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So there it is. Where are the usual suspects that were on the other thread where Anderson was saying he would be defeated against Jones? Where are they? So Anderson will fight to lose? Where are the guys who said he would never accept this fight? Phone Post
7/2/13 3:22 PM
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Tad Ghostal
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I get the feeling that Anderson vs GSP would make more money than Anderson vs Jones, even though Jones sells a lot of PPVS himself. He'd never turn down either fight.
7/2/13 3:25 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Samoa - Oh, I see says the blind man. I fucked that up. I didn't understand who you were talking about. My bad. Phone Post 3.0

You didn't fuck it up, he just used very incorrect language. Anderson's opponents moved down AFTER they fought, where GSP and Jones' opponents were fighters "from" the division below. 


lol.well if you want to play semantics both chael and vitor were hw and or lhw b4 moving down in the first place. so whats your pt? my point is the guys that andy fought could have been fighting at ww during the time they fought andy.just like vitor and chael could have made mw during the time they fought jbj.so in essence its like the same shit either way.
7/2/13 3:30 PM
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LILBROCK
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK - So now height and reach are the end all be all when it comes to size? Fun little fact for you. The UFC uses weight classes and we don't know what fighters weigh on fight night. They do not use height classes nor arm length classes.

If height is such an advantage, why don't you bring up Anderson? You do know that he has never faced a MW in the UFC taller than him and that Lutter was the only one who matched him at 6'2", right? He has been taller than Leben and every single title defense in the UFC. Why don't you ever bring that up?
No, weight, height, and wingspan are the three major factors of size. Jones has them all against him competition. One the rare occassion someone is a similar weight, they still lose the other two categories.

You'll get it one day. Its pretty simple really. Phone Post

So you agree that Anderson has NEVER been at a height disadvantage at MW? And I'd imagine he typically has a reach and weight advantage too. I like when it comes to jones, all of a sudden 2" in height or 1-2% difference in fight night weight are all of a sudden such a big deal. I'd bet if you look at most fights, you'd see that discrepancy. Not everyone that weighs in at 170 rehydrates to the exact same weight. You don't seem to like to point out Anderson's "advantages" but constantly bring up GSP or Jones'. Why is that? I've seen you talk about GSP's weight way more than Anderson's height.
7/2/13 4:29 PM
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Leck Brosnar
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ABE FROMAN -  So there it is. Where are the usual suspects that were on the other thread where Anderson was saying he would be defeated against Jones? Where are they? So Anderson will fight to lose? Where are the guys who said he would never accept this fight? Phone Post

Jones by TKO in the 2nd(elbows). Just to make sure you don't have to pay for the PPV. You can thank me later, brah.
7/2/13 5:14 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Samoa - Oh, I see says the blind man. I fucked that up. I didn't understand who you were talking about. My bad. Phone Post 3.0

You didn't fuck it up, he just used very incorrect language. Anderson's opponents moved down AFTER they fought, where GSP and Jones' opponents were fighters "from" the division below. 


LOL... So if Vitor and Sonnen fight at LWH (and HW) first, go to MW, and then back to LHW it's a mismatch and Jones fights smaller guys.

But if Marquardt, Cote, and Maia are fighting at MW and then go to their true class of WW later, they were the same size as Anderson and he was not fighting smaller guys? Like there's some rule that a fighter is smaller only if they cut to a lower weight class in an earlier fight?

Nice try chucko.

I love how it is their "true class" when talking about Anderson's opponents, but not the others. 

 

You're cute kid. You failed hard with the whole attempt. Try a different angle, or follow up with OTSS' response:

How many times have those two fought opponents from the division above theirs? Or guys who used to fight there (Vitor and Sonnen by your own declaration)...Oh that's right, NEVER. 

So Anderson fought FIVE total guys from LHW by your logic, and even one HW in Vitor. Oops....

 

How many MW/LHW has GSP fought?

How many HW have Jones fought?


you are fool to think jbj cant sash a lot of hw at this very moment or that he wont move up to challenge him-self eventually. he would have took a fight at the end of this year at heavy if he was not advised against it.
7/2/13 5:36 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Phil999 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Just to clarify for people who will post without watching, he meant a fight with GSP is no good.

And thanks Ninja Phone Post


so the thread title is misleading?
Yes. I channeled my inner UGBlog. Phone Post

so you admit you like to use your words to mis lead and try to get your point across as a fact when its not...thats what i get out of all your post, and im sure your like this with anything. so you have been channeling your inner ugblog even before you knew about the ugblog.your on some next level shit like andy.
7/2/13 5:53 PM
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LILBROCK
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SQUEEZIE - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Phil999 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Just to clarify for people who will post without watching, he meant a fight with GSP is no good.

And thanks Ninja Phone Post


so the thread title is misleading?
Yes. I channeled my inner UGBlog. Phone Post

so you admit you like to use your words to mis lead and try to get your point across as a fact when its not...thats what i get out of all your post, and im sure your like this with anything. so you have been channeling your inner ugblog even before you knew about the ugblog.your on some next level shit like andy.

As multiple posters have pointed out, he will intentionally try and mislead, just like with the weight issue (using high extremes for Jones and GSP and low extremes for Anderson). He'll passive-aggressively bash and put down any fighter that has or may fight Anderson or may be a threat to him. It really is weird.
7/2/13 8:32 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Shoryuken Rw - LILBROCK, I don't have time to get involved in the LayNGay scuffle but you're right.

For everyone who keeps mentioning how great Silva is for moving up and fighting above his weight class, he fought fucking bumbs. Jones would absolutely destroy low level HW fighters comparable to guys like Stephen Bonnar.

This weight/reach argument trying to discredit Jones is getting old. Like someone already pointed out Jones will have a reach advantage at HW too so why does it matter? Should we just have him fight Lions bare handed because men can't compete with his reach? Learn to adapt, that's what fighters do, they try to neutralize another fighters strengths.

As far as his weight, I would bet my paycheck that half of the guys Jones has faced we're within 5 lbs of his weight. 5 pounds is not going to make you come out on top.

Guys talk about how great Anderson is for fighting bumbs a class above well into his prime but expect Jones to fight fucking monsters like Cain, JDS or Overeem at HW. It's because you're haters who just want him to lose, keep hoping and I hope you hold your breath.

At least Jones says he plans on moving up and fighting real competition a weight class above. Jones GOAT. Phone Post 3.0
So fun to see keyboard warriors call former UFC and WEC champions "bums".

You're pathetic. Phone Post
7/2/13 8:40 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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SQUEEZIE -
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Phil999 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Just to clarify for people who will post without watching, he meant a fight with GSP is no good.

And thanks Ninja Phone Post


so the thread title is misleading?
Yes. I channeled my inner UGBlog. Phone Post

so you admit you like to use your words to mis lead and try to get your point across as a fact when its not...thats what i get out of all your post, and im sure your like this with anything. so you have been channeling your inner ugblog even before you knew about the ugblog.your on some next level shit like andy.
No. I admit I used Anderson's poor language skills to make a thread title that would get more views and discussion going, and to weed out the IDIOTS who want to comment without actually watching the video. Phone Post
7/2/13 8:41 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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LILBROCK -
SQUEEZIE - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Phil999 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Just to clarify for people who will post without watching, he meant a fight with GSP is no good.

And thanks Ninja Phone Post


so the thread title is misleading?
Yes. I channeled my inner UGBlog. Phone Post

so you admit you like to use your words to mis lead and try to get your point across as a fact when its not...thats what i get out of all your post, and im sure your like this with anything. so you have been channeling your inner ugblog even before you knew about the ugblog.your on some next level shit like andy.

As multiple posters have pointed out, he will intentionally try and mislead, just like with the weight issue (using high extremes for Jones and GSP and low extremes for Anderson). He'll passive-aggressively bash and put down any fighter that has or may fight Anderson or may be a threat to him. It really is weird.
So I use:

220-225 for Jones
198-203 for Anderson
188-193 for GSP.

Please explain which of those are inaccurate, and why you feel that way. Phone Post
7/2/13 9:01 PM
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suess
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Edited: 07/02/13 9:02 PM
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7/2/13 9:04 PM
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LILBROCK
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK -
SQUEEZIE - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Phil999 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Just to clarify for people who will post without watching, he meant a fight with GSP is no good.

And thanks Ninja Phone Post


so the thread title is misleading?
Yes. I channeled my inner UGBlog. Phone Post

so you admit you like to use your words to mis lead and try to get your point across as a fact when its not...thats what i get out of all your post, and im sure your like this with anything. so you have been channeling your inner ugblog even before you knew about the ugblog.your on some next level shit like andy.

As multiple posters have pointed out, he will intentionally try and mislead, just like with the weight issue (using high extremes for Jones and GSP and low extremes for Anderson). He'll passive-aggressively bash and put down any fighter that has or may fight Anderson or may be a threat to him. It really is weird.
So I use:

220-225 for Jones
198-203 for Anderson
188-193 for GSP.

Please explain which of those are inaccurate, and why you feel that way. Phone Post

LOL....yeah, sure you do. I'll give you this. You'll use one of those numbers associated with each fighter (except for Jones it's 226, not 225). I think we all know which one too.
7/2/13 9:17 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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You are so cute. Even in this thread and the other from yesterday I have said and I quote "220-225"....

If I have said 226 it was along with the words "as much as".

Even in the other thread when I believe you yourself used an average of around 223 I agreed.

So again, which one if those weight ranges is inaccurate and explain how I am being biased using them. Please. Phone Post
7/2/13 9:20 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Would you say this is reasonable:

Jones likely averaged 222 in the cage in his 4 most recent fights.
Anderson likely averaged 200 in the cage in his last four MW fights.
GSP likely averaged 190 in the cage in his last four fights.


Tell me what about that is far off base, or biased. Phone Post
7/2/13 9:35 PM
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LILBROCK
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LNP on Jones weight from a thread about 2 weeks ago. This is ONE thread and I didn't even go thru the whole thing. One thread! So you always say Jones is 220-225?

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.frame&page=1

"That's what I thought. Thanks. None of the current top 10 lhw are coming in in the mid 220's in the cage other than Jones, and possibly Glover"

"Um no. He has a couple times, but has also been back to 226 and 224 according to himself for recent fights" Really? 226 was recent? Thought you said it was for Matuyshenko in 2010? Funny you didn't bring up the 205 weight then.

"The average there is 221. With Jones being 224 and 226. And then you have to factor Travis fucking Wieff (sp) skewing the average with his 241. "

"Ill be gone about 2 hours. Feel free to source more ufc fighters here being over jones' 224-226 from that thread while I'm gone. (In the cage weights, not walking around bullshit)"

"Same for GSP. He is heavier than many of his last opponents, and usually has reach/wingspan. "

"Who else in the top ten has said they are 224 or more? No one I have ever seen. "

"Try for a minute to FOCUS on Jon Jones and the LHW division since that is what we are talking about. WHO in the lhw divsion, that is at or near the top of the food chain there, is saying they are 224 and higher in the cage? How in the world can you spend so much effort trying to deny what is blatantly obvious"

"Now, again the topic you have avoided the entire thread: Who of the BEST LHWs in the world right now, are 225 like Bones?"










7/2/13 9:52 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Dude you're so desperate. That was quotes where we were discussing actual sourced weights for various fighters at LHW. Using orcus' weight thread...m
So shocking that we are discussing the sourced 224 (rashad) and 226 (janitor) weights, as they are the ones from orcus' thread.


So desperate.

Funny how you can stalk and older thread, completely ignore the context of it (sourced weights from orcus' thread), and then completely dicktuck my direct questions.... Phone Post
7/2/13 9:56 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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If we are talking about an average, yes I always say he is probably 220-225.

Yet you're butthurt I said 226 a few times when JONES HIMSELF TWEETED HE WAS 226 on the day of his fight?

So comical. Keep dicktucking your questions... Phone Post
7/2/13 10:00 PM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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Damn this has turned intp a pnesided debate. Really gopd read though Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 10:03 PM
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Entreri
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"video has been removed by user"

Jones is a worse match up for him than Cain IMO.
7/2/13 10:04 PM
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LILBROCK
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -  If we are talking about an average, yes I always say he is probably 220-225.

Yet you're butthurt I said 226 a few times when JONES HIMSELF TWEETED HE WAS 226 on the day of his fight?

So comical. Keep dicktucking your questions... Phone Post

You're kidding right? You're going to defend YOUR quotes? If you were discussing his sourced weight, why not bring up 205 or 218? Why is it always 224 and 226?

Why not upper teens or lower 220's as opposed to "mid 220's?"

The 218 weight (Rashad) was more recent than the 226 weight (Matyushenko). Why cherry pick the older weight?

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