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BJJGround Forum >> Just how good were the Machado brothers?


7/4/13 6:45 AM
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Tilla
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In their prime, how good were they?

What comps did they win? What big names did they beat? How good were they for their time? How highly do you rate them?
7/4/13 9:03 AM
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John Frankl
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Lots of brothers. Lots of different and paths.

Off the top of my head...

Watch Jean Jacques vs. Wallid back in the day. Watch him against Leo Vieira at ADCC. Phenomenal match. Rickson trusts him with Kron.

Carlos' videos are some of the best I've seen.

Rorion brought them up to help him very early.
7/4/13 9:06 AM
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Blkbelt39
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They are just as good as the Gracie's. Phone Post 3.0
7/4/13 10:56 AM
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htownbjj
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Rigan is legendary for his dominance, pressure, and technical knowledge.
7/4/13 11:30 AM
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markus
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they owned the tournament scene in the 90's. while rorian set the standard for closed guard, the machados set the standard for the open guard.

rigan was doing the twister long before eddie b. jj machado taped all 4 opponents in adcc. (only 1 good hand). john caught frangina in a joe Moreira superfight.

I just discovered carlos instructionals, and I think its better than rigan or j.j.'s actually its the best open guard series ever. better than tanquino, marcelo, robson, or saulo.

and their students did well also: ricco Rodriquez (ufc 39 champ) carlos newton, eddie bravo, ryann Gregg (won tons of local competitions)

the saying was if you can't train with a gracie, train with a machado.
7/4/13 12:51 PM
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BEEF & CHEESE
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I think they're still really good.
7/4/13 1:00 PM
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vegard
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Not to be a jerk but are these questions serious? How good is Roger Gracie? Is Kron's guard good? How good are the Machados? It's like remedial class on the atama forum these days. Lloyd drama or idiocy.
7/4/13 1:01 PM
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graciesrule
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In the late 80's in Brazil Rigan was #2 behind Rickson!
7/4/13 1:02 PM
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bonez05
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vegard - Not to be a jerk but are these questions serious? How good is Roger Gracie? Is Kron's guard good? How good are the Machados? It's like remedial class on the atama forum these days. Lloyd drama or idiocy.

+1
7/4/13 1:43 PM
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CodeGeek
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It's funny to me that some people feel like they need to be the topic police. This is a discussion forum, after all, one that attracts people of all levels of experience and knowledge. If someone wants to know about the Machados, why is that bad or off limits?Maybe some of the older BJJers around here have some personal stories about them, or have trained and rolled with them, etc. Stuff you can't glean just by watching videos. If you don't like the topic, don't click it.
7/4/13 1:57 PM
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shortyjj
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vegard - Not to be a jerk but are these questions serious? How good is Roger Gracie? Is Kron's guard good? How good are the Machados? It's like remedial class on the atama forum these days. Lloyd drama or idiocy.

Heaven forbid that someone new to the grappling community or BJJ come to a BJJ forum to ask questions to people who have more experience.

Do you treat whitebelts on the mat like that? "SHTF, noob! This isn't remedial class! We're here to learn top-shelf jiu jitsu!"

wth?
7/4/13 2:03 PM
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JRockwell
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markus - they owned the tournament scene in the 90's. while rorian set the standard for closed guard, the machados set the standard for the open guard.

rigan was doing the twister long before eddie b. jj machado taped all 4 opponents in adcc. (only 1 good hand). john caught frangina in a joe Moreira superfight.

I just discovered carlos instructionals, and I think its better than rigan or j.j.'s actually its the best open guard series ever. better than tanquino, marcelo, robson, or saulo.

and their students did well also: ricco Rodriquez (ufc 39 champ) carlos newton, eddie bravo, ryann Gregg (won tons of local competitions)

the saying was if you can't train with a gracie, train with a machado.

Love the Machado brothers, they are incredible technicians, competitors, teachers, and ambassadors of the art.

One point of contention, however, is that Rigan was NOT doing the twister before Eddie Bravo.  In fact, he wasn't doing it until Eddie Bravo showed it to him.  He came to Virginia, to the gym I trained at in 1998 to do a seminar; I was a white belt at the time, most of us were, there might have been like 3 blue belts there who were considered total badasses.  Rigan taught a lot of spider guard, which very few of us could do at all but we still thought it was awesome.  Near the end of the seminar, he showed us a move he told us one of his students taught him called the "Tweeeeeester", and how he got into it from side control.  No one could do it at all and we all thought he was insane.  Then he rolled with everyone in attendance (probably 30 people) and casually destroyed us all.

7/4/13 2:25 PM
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EazyG
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Machados were awesome!

Watch "Badboys from Brazil' to see their awesome acting, too!


Did someone say Rorian set the standard for the closed guard in the 1990s?

I think you need to win some tournaments or at least beat some top notch guys using the closed guard to earn that 'title'. So what tournaments did Rorian win and/or what top fighters did he beat?
7/4/13 3:16 PM
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vegard
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You can talk about them all you want. They're great guys to discuss but You know enough to know about the Machados but don't know they're legends of the sport that run some of the best schools in the country and that JJ is otherworldly.?

How good was Joe Montana? Was he a good quarterback?

Sorry, I can be asshole but there have been some dumb questions around here lately.

7/4/13 3:25 PM
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12
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great instructors , much more sparring and conditioning
then helio's way of doing things
7/4/13 3:29 PM
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Mister Crabs
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I agree with Vegard; Roger is perhaps the best ever. There is no way to settle that debate. However, anyone who does not think he is among the best ever is a bona fide knucklehead. The Machados, every last one of them, were outstanding and are outstanding teachers. They have forgotten more than many black belts, including myself, will probably ever know. They've produced outstanding competitors and practitioners and experts go to them to learn. Kron's guard? A few minutes on Youtube will show you that his guard is ridiculously good. Is it flashy or fancy? Maybe not, but it is nuanced and powerful enough to confound and defeat some of the best guys out there today. I can assure you that few people who get caught in Kron's guard, regardless of belt level, are going to be able to deal with what Kron does.
7/4/13 4:19 PM
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PrisonMattressPuncher
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Rigan Machado at one point was probably the BEST black belt in America behind Rickson. Jean Jacques was the famil champion, but Rigan would sometimes demolish him while they rolled due to size, pressure, technique, etc.

You want to know how good Rigan Machado was? Well once he went to train at Barra, of course, everyone knew who the Machados were but most had not seen their faces. So Rigan goes to train and who do they put him up against? Marcio "Pe Da Pano" Cruz! Well, guess what happened. Rigan DEMOLISHED him over and over and over. Just destroyed him. Marico stormed off angrily. It was only later, I think it was Carlson Grace who told him who Rigan was, and Marcio went and apologized for throwing a spaz afer getting destroyed. That's how good Rigan Machado was.

7/4/13 4:29 PM
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Tilla
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vegard - You can talk about them all you want. They're great guys to discuss but You know enough to know about the Machados but don't know they're legends of the sport that run some of the best schools in the country and that JJ is otherworldly.?

How good was Joe Montana? Was he a good quarterback?

Sorry, I can be asshole but there have been some dumb questions around here lately.


Fuck you, nerd.
7/4/13 5:04 PM
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Aaronrodgers=GOAT
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I like your threads Tilla Phone Post
7/4/13 5:50 PM
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Biggy
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jean jacques was the first to set the standard in no gi competition. ironically him missing one hand made him focus more on over/underhooks than sleeve/lapel grips Phone Post 3.0
7/4/13 5:56 PM
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Tilla
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Aaronrodgers=GOAT -  I like your threads Tilla Phone Post

Thanks! ;-)

I'm only trying to "learn" about some of the legends of BJJ through this forum, but I get my head bit off for asking!
7/4/13 6:59 PM
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Mit
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CodeGeek - It's funny to me that some people feel like they need to be the topic police. This is a discussion forum, after all, one that attracts people of all levels of experience and knowledge. If someone wants to know about the Machados, why is that bad or off limits?Maybe some of the older BJJers around here have some personal stories about them, or have trained and rolled with them, etc. Stuff you can't glean just by watching videos. If you don't like the topic, don't click it.
This....who cares what someone else asks if you don't like it or have no interest don't click. Good stories and vids come up on these threads. Phone Post 3.0
7/4/13 7:59 PM
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EddieBravo
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10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, www.thetwister.tv
Jean Jacques was the first ADCC legend. No one submitted their opponents like JJ did back then. He was playing x-guard and taking backs in the early ADCC's. He lost to Arona and Lister who out weighed him by 40 pounds. :-) Phone Post 3.0
7/4/13 8:18 PM
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Rival School
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Before the worlds were called the worlds it was the Brazilian Nationals. He won the Brazilian Nationals 10 years in a row Phone Post 3.0
7/4/13 8:22 PM
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Rival School
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And the state championships 10 years in a row. After that headed to America and into the ADCC. Jean Jac toe was the most exciting of all. Plus he pulled guard without being boring Phone Post 3.0

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