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BJJGround Forum >> Just how good were the Machado brothers?


7/4/13 11:56 PM
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Red Stuff
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I support these types of threads as I'm pretty ignorant of a lot of bjj history.

Reading about and discussing bjj is one of my favourite things to do.

Thread bump for Machados.
7/5/13 1:01 AM
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liuk3
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Thanks for the thread.
7/5/13 2:09 AM
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Sir Taps
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Stubjj844 - JJ is awesome. Butterfly guard is JJ and Marcelo, then the rest.

Add Leo Santos to that list.

James
7/5/13 3:59 AM
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kingabiu
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I did a hook-sweep seminar recently with John Will (one of the Dirty Dozen.) He was talking about Rigan and how he is just lightyears better than everybody. Anyway John was over training with him and watched Rigan start rolling with a guy. I'm sorry i don't have the name. Anyway Rigan just demolishes this guy, with a hook sweep in particular. Just did it over, and over, and over etc with followup domination, until this guy goes over to the bench ... and he's so demoralized that he's crying. Rigan asks John 'what is the matter, why is he upset - maybe i should go over and tell him I'll let him win for awhile?' Phone Post
7/5/13 4:00 AM
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kingabiu
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oops missed the punchline -- that guy was the world champion Phone Post
7/5/13 5:01 AM
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spider guard
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^^^^ must be the Pe de Pano story from when he was current world and absolute champion.
7/5/13 6:11 AM
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vegard
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Www.bjjhereoes.com is good website for info. From their website:


Jean Jacques Machado is one of the legends of BJJ. This Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt was considered one of Carlos Gracie Junior‘s top students in the 1980?s, a status cemented with his wins over several important grapplers of his generation, including BJJ superstar Wallid Ismail at the Copa Atlantica tournament in Brazil. Jean Jacques Machado continued his good form even after he moved to the United States to open his own academy, winning years later in the Abu Dhabi Combat Club (ADCC), the World’s most prestigious Submission Wrestling competition. He was also one of the first BJJ black belts to move to the United States where he was an important factor in the development of Jiu Jitsu.

i've had the good fortune to train with carlos machado multiple times. He is an extraordinary teacher. After 15 years of bjj and getting to learn from a lot of great instructors, he is probably at the top of the list. Plus, he is super friendly and great with names. His rolling is silky smooth.
7/5/13 6:23 AM
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burner22
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Red Stuff - I support these types of threads as I'm pretty ignorant of a lot of bjj history.

Reading about and discussing bjj is one of my favourite things to do.

Thread bump for Machados.
I feel the same way Phone Post
7/5/13 7:33 AM
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blanko
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Did someone say that Rorion was the standard for the closed guard? Wtf?
7/5/13 10:48 AM
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mrgoodarmbar
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From what my instructor has told me, I think Rigan would've been Rickson if it wasn't for Rickson...Nothing like being in the shadow of the best.
7/5/13 5:14 PM
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markus
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blanko - Did someone say that Rorion was the standard for the closed guard? Wtf?

yes...2 reasons.

1) everybody went to gracie academy to learn jiujitsu in '93. and the 1st guard everybody learned was the closed guard. he was the only guy in town, and closed guard is what you got.

2) rorian lost a lot of students when a family member left to open their own school. (machados, royler, rickson, Fabio santos, caique, Royce)

so, no one ever talks about how good rorians jiujitsu is. always a distraction about business methods. but, rorians closed guard is identical to helio. I mean its insanely good. hard to escape. not pass, escape. he is lethal!

rorian was always doing challenge fights. using jiujitsu for a fight. to him that's the only thing jiujitsu is for.

I have heard stories that relson's closed guard is tuff to pass, but I never had the chance to find out. so that's why I said rorion is standard for the closed guard.

7/5/13 6:29 PM
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JSho
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I'd heard it said Rigan could have been the greatest if only he wasn't so lazy (and even so he was #2 at that time in any case) Phone Post 3.0
7/5/13 6:40 PM
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Siciliano
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Only got to roll once with Roger Machado. So basic, so tight. That said, he's the least known of the brothers.
7/5/13 8:36 PM
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m.g
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9S-3msJD7I&feature=share&list=PLC6263DCD5A3B92F9
7/6/13 1:10 PM
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cumprido1
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Never heard of them. Phone Post
7/6/13 4:52 PM
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PayItForward
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PrisonMattressPuncher - 

Rigan Machado at one point was probably the BEST black belt in America behind Rickson. Jean Jacques was the famil champion, but Rigan would sometimes demolish him while they rolled due to size, pressure, technique, etc.

You want to know how good Rigan Machado was? Well once he went to train at Barra, of course, everyone knew who the Machados were but most had not seen their faces. So Rigan goes to train and who do they put him up against? Marcio "Pe Da Pano" Cruz! Well, guess what happened. Rigan DEMOLISHED him over and over and over. Just destroyed him. Marico stormed off angrily. It was only later, I think it was Carlson Grace who told him who Rigan was, and Marcio went and apologized for throwing a spaz afer getting destroyed. That's how good Rigan Machado was.


this never happened. I was there.

it was ari bolden knazan who showed up.
7/6/13 9:32 PM
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LittleTony
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Edited: 07/06/13 9:34 PM
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I was in the South Bay Los Angeles in the mid 90's and the ,"You train with the Gracies and learn closed guard or You train with the Machados and learn the open guard," was a real thing. I was also learning from Relson Gracie when he came to philadelphia and when I went to hawaii...Relson was all about closed guard. Further in the jiu-jitsu tournament scene in the USA/West Coast, the machados were the competition to beat.

My experience has been with Carlos, Rigan and Roger only:

Carlos is a professional and one of the best teachers of jiu-jitsu in the world. Watch his dvds from the point of an educator. Rorion Gracie is one of the best educators I ever had and I put Carlos Machado right under him. Right under. Come to think about it...Rorion is a master of teaching the basics while Carlos Machado is amazing in teaching many aspects of jiu-jitsu like a master!

I rolled with Rigan once at this academy in Redondo Beach about 5 years ago... he was wearing shorts and put a gi jacket on. "How long you been black belt my friend?" He went on the smash me very slow. He joked from the half guard and said, "This is when your shoulder falls a sleep!" It was dead five seconds before that. I said to Rigan that he was a monster and he told me the only chance I have with him is distance and open guard.

Roger I only watched roll and I asked him a technical question about guard passing. He was very smooth and playful when rolling. And his answer to my question was like a zen teacher...I said how do you feel about this and he answered how do you feel... He went on to fix some issues I had.

The other brothers John and JJ I only have heard great things about as well.

"little" Tony
7/6/13 9:47 PM
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JJK
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LittleTony - I was in the South Bay Los Angeles in the mid 90's and the ,"You train with the Gracies and learn closed guard or You train with the Machados and learn the open guard," was a real thing. I was also learning from Relson Gracie when he came to philadelphia and when I went to hawaii...Relson was all about closed guard. Further in the jiu-jitsu tournament scene in the USA/West Coast, the machados were the competition to beat.

My experience has been with Carlos, Rigan and Roger only:

Carlos is a professional and one of the best teachers of jiu-jitsu in the world. Watch his dvds from the point of an educator. Rorion Gracie is one of the best educators I ever had and I put Carlos Machado right under him. Right under. Come to think about it...Rorion is a master of teaching the basics while Carlos Machado is amazing in teaching many aspects of jiu-jitsu like a master!

I rolled with Rigan once at this academy in Redondo Beach about 5 years ago... he was wearing shorts and put a gi jacket on. "How long you been black belt my friend?" He went on the smash me very slow. He joked from the half guard and said, "This is when your shoulder falls a sleep!" It was dead five seconds before that. I said to Rigan that he was a monster and he told me the only chance I have with him is distance and open guard.

Roger I only watched roll and I asked him a technical question about guard passing. He was very smooth and playful when rolling. And his answer to my question was like a zen teacher...I said how do you feel about this and he answered how do you feel... He went on to fix some issues I had.

The other brothers John and JJ I only have heard great things about as well.

"little" Tony

Very cool! :-)

Now seriously, how can anyone really be asking this question without trolling?

JJ Machado's run in ADCC to me is only second in impressiveness to Marcelo Garcia!
7/7/13 7:54 PM
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Denny Prokopos
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Jean Jacques is one of the greatest grapplers to ever walk the planet same with Rigan. The family as a whole has contributed to the sport tremendously. It been an honor to train with both. Phone Post 3.0
7/8/13 9:31 PM
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mijo
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Carlos Machado is a amazing.
7/8/13 9:42 PM
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AlphaSlap
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This highlight is all you need to know


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO-OztYtmKE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
7/9/13 5:48 PM
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chew22
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Carlos is one of the best teachers ever. Concept based, not technique based. You will never forget one of his concept lessons. Rolling with him you seem to lose space consistently until he has position, a little at a time.

Been to seminars with Carlos, Rigan, John, Roger. All good quality concepts - a lot of content, good repetition format. Rigan's been doing a run in a circle then grab a partner and do reps on techniques he's teaching. Keeps activity up, keeps partner rotation up. Plus you do demos at the end to show all you learned during the day.

I guess to sum it up you'd say they all trained with their cousins the Gracies growing up and thus have the benefit of decades of BJJ training and insight.
7/9/13 5:51 PM
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BJJintheUSA
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Edited: 07/09/13 5:52 PM
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i mean they're good :<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmG8fP1_zTY<br /><br />

Edit: there, their, & they're it's important people
7/10/13 1:25 PM
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Wutang
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Amazing grapplers and even better instructors. All the brothers have different games. I've been fortunate to train/roll with Jean Jacques, Rigan and John. Their understanding of BJJ is above most black belts.
7/10/13 2:39 PM
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ceoJUSTGIPANTSdotCOM
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how good are the machados?

rigan passed roleta's guard,which everyone says is impossible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNsZtFvOl0A

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