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UnderGround Forums >> Chuck Liddell: The UFC is not a welfare state


7/10/13 1:33 PM
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BshMstr
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Macedawgg - 

Aside from anything else, the guys at the top are not being compensated even remotely similar to counterparts in other sports.

Liddell is simply incorrect in suggesting that boxing only a few get paid.  That just isn't true.  Andre Berto received more pay in his last fight than Jon Fitch did in his entire UFC career.  They are of similar stature.


agreed.

plus, what are the costs for a boxer? boxing gym, S&C coach and a manager?

MMA fighters have that, plus BJJ, wrestling, muay thai, plus have a higher risk of injury, and fight less often....
7/10/13 1:37 PM
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sacredhate
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i agree with Chuck. Zuffa doesn't not, ever, act like a welfare state where money is handed out based on loyalties or empathy as opposed to spectacular performance.

I mean, imagine if he was handed a lush executive job in the private sector without having to demonstrate his skill and capability was drastically superior to the other folks that might have been interested in such an opportunity.
7/10/13 1:38 PM
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TopGrinder
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For the most part yeah but ring whore girls get paid more than most fighters its sad. My real problem is the % of these fighters get paid compared to UFC profits. When total payroll for a UFC ppv is 500-900k and UFC live gate is over 2-3 million plus 400k ppv buys the fighters r royally getting fucked over. Fighters r getting paid what10-15% of total revenue? If that? That is some total fuckery right there Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 1:42 PM
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sniper1026
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The painful truth...

Though Fox Sports should throw some $$$ into the pot IMO.
Especially because they show most of the undercard events.

Regular cable TV is where the up & comers are showcased. This is where they develop their fan base.
7/10/13 2:01 PM
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Macedawgg
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Fox deal is 7 year, $832 million.

7/10/13 2:01 PM
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Macedawgg
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Brazil TV deal is approximately $235 million.

7/10/13 2:03 PM
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Wiggy
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sacredhate - i agree with Chuck. Zuffa doesn't not, ever, act like a welfare state where money is handed out based on loyalties or empathy as opposed to spectacular performance.

I mean, imagine if he was handed a lush executive job in the private sector without having to demonstrate his skill and capability was drastically superior to the other folks that might have been interested in such an opportunity.

What you did there...I see it.
7/10/13 2:05 PM
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MrMead
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Anyone who is against raising fighter pay is a shill or a moran. If they don't this sport will be done in 10 years time.
7/10/13 2:08 PM
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BTT-RyannVonDoom
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Nope but it's a good ol boys camp. Chuck knows that really well. Considerin he was dana's golden child for years being fed cans and grapplers while getting paid well due to being the favorite of zuffa. He can talk all he likes but hes still the puppet of zuffa. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 2:10 PM
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BTT-RyannVonDoom
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JustTheTip -
TopGrinder - For the most part yeah but ring whore girls get paid more than most fighters its sad. My real problem is the % of these fighters get paid compared to UFC profits. When total payroll for a UFC ppv is 500-900k and UFC live gate is over 2-3 million plus 400k ppv buys the fighters r royally getting fucked over. Fighters r getting paid what10-15% of total revenue? If that? That is some total fuckery right there Phone Post 3.0

Ha...this. Arianny's estimated net worth is around $1M. I wonder what percentage of UFC's fighters can say that. Maybe 4-5%? It's sad.
Wait what? She was working at ambercrombie and fitch for min wage before she got on as a ring card girl... Fuck man.. The ring card girls are doing better than the actual fighters. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 2:16 PM
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IIAces
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Underground Blog -

Chuck Liddell: The UFC is not a welfare state

 

Chuck Liddell, former UFC light heavyweight champion and current UFC Executive Vice President of Business Development, recently appeared on SiriusXM Fight Club, and discussed fighter compensation.

"(Lower paid) guys have got to understand, this is a performance based sport, like all sports," said Liddell. "You fight good, you win, you get paid. Alright? You're starting out, no one knows who you are, no one cares, you don't get paid. Period. It's simple. I mean, my first contract I was offered by the UFC, or my second contract, it was 1-and-1, 2-and-2, 3-and-3. That's $12,000 for the year. Don't complain to me about fighter pay. It was $12,000 for a year, and it was exclusive.

"It's a performance based business. You get good, you win, then you get paid. Guys are getting paid plenty, trust me. I got paid plenty, trust me."

"Everybody points to, ‘Oh, boxing these guys are getting [paid].' There's a couple guys that make these big huge paydays. That's it. The undercards don't make anything. There's bottom guys on some of those cards that are making $100 a round. $100 a round. That's $400 for a four-round fight.

"People got to understand, the fighters at the top are the fighters that are supposed to get paid because they're the guys that are bringing people in, bringing eyes to the TV, getting pay-per-views buys, and putting people in the seats. I mean, that's what it comes down to. You want to get that? Beat everybody. Be good enough. If you're not good enough to get there -- sorry. It's not a welfare state."

"You picked the wrong sport. Hey, you made a good run at it. You tried. Eh, try another sport because this one doesn't work for you."

Listen to entire interview...
Read entire article...

 
100% agreed and what I've stated many times. Pay ratio for UFC from rookie to star is the best in all of major sports. They spread the money fairer. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 2:44 PM
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IIAces
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epwar -

And another Zuffa mouthpiece trying to conflate two issues.  Yes, we know you started out small, Chuck.  But that was when the company was making no money.  Now the UFC is pulling in $500 million in revenue annually and you have guys who AREN'T making a livable wage.  Why do they always gloss over that?  

How much of that is profit? And how much reserves does the UFC have to keep around to stay liquid before events. You do realize owners of company's profit margins are only 15-20%( if your good). Not much considering they could only sell for what a billion? If they pulled 500 mill a year zuffa's sell price would be over 2.5-5 billion. Find factual numbers bro.

They still have a 400 million dollar debt due in a few years.

So if the net worth is 1.1 billion they are clearing 100mill before taxes year. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 2:54 PM
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SonOfThePeepHole
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Wiggy -
SonOfThePeepHole - 
Jack Carter -
SonOfThePeepHole - Agreed.

BUT

the UFC is so much bigger now they can AFFORD to pay lower level guys better. Phone Post
This.

Why didn't Chuck mention this critical fact? Phone Post 3.0
Yep.

Back when he started mma wasn't even sanctioned in half the areas it is now Phone Post

This was the point I was going to bring up. Yeah, Chuck used to fight for 1&1, 2&2, and 3&3. However, the UFC also wasn't a $600 million/year revenue company then, either.

UFC higher-ups like to get mad when people compare the UFC to boxing. Case in point, Chuck's reference to undercard boxers making so little on PPV events.

However, if you're going to compare boxing to the UFC, you have to keep a few things in mind:

(NOTE - this is more about fans bitching about guys not being paid as much as it is the fighters themselves bitching, so keep that in mind)

First is that boxing has way more free and low-cost television coverage than the UFC does by a long shot. You can get a basic cable package for ESPN2 to get Friday Night Fights and/or pay a few extra bucks a month for Showtime and/or HBO to get those fights as well.

(Of course, you have to assign relative value to all of this too, as you're not just being provided with boxing coverage - but a complete cable package and premium movie package as well, with all the associated programming...whatever all that is/isn't "worth" to you. Point is that you're not just paying for the boxing alone.)

This would give you access to probably 90% of nationally televised boxing coverage without having to order a single PPV. If you wanted to order PPVs, that's fine, but you wouldn't have to order but a few each year. And there's really only a small handful of guys that you'd be required to have to buy a PPV in order to see. PPV boxing is the pinnacle - where you only (in theory) get access to the "best". ESPN and HBO/Showtime coverage is more "normal", where as PPV is the exception to the rule.

However, the UFC is the opposite. When they talk about free prelims, FB broadcasts, or events on FX/Fuel/Fox, they are telling us what a deal we're getting b/c the fights are "free" and we're not having to pay to watch them. With the UFC, PPV is "normal" and cable coverage is the exception to the rule.

In my mind, I think that's where a lot of the beef comes from. Yes, there are more "free" fights than ever. However, there are also more PPVs than ever, and they're also more expensive than ever. (This from a guy that still remembers paying $24.95 for a UFC.)

I think the bitching from a lot of fans (especially the long-time fans) stems from the fact that they see themselves laying out more $$ than they ever have, yet the guys they're paying to see aren't (seemingly) getting a commensurate increase in compensation.

Even if you take volume out of the equation (i.e. - there being a UFC PPV every few weeks now instead of every other month, meaning there is more revenue but more guys to pay), PPV prices alone have doubled, and PPV numbers are way higher than back when Chuck was making 1&1 and 2&2.

That sorta thing is what disgruntles people, IMO.
Qft Phone Post
7/10/13 2:54 PM
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IIAces
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My company is worth 10 million. I exaggerated a little just so you know. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 2:57 PM
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JunkieDog
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What does he mean, the ufc isn't a welfare state? Of course it is. Take a fighter making 4/4 and fights only twice, hell, even three times this year. Say he wins his fights, that gives him a 16-24k annual income. With 2 kids and a wife who works part time so she can raise the kids, this fighter/family would not only qualify for food stamps but most likely housing assistance, heating assistance and would almost certainly get back every cent they paid in taxes, and then some!

Kind of like Mcdonalds, Burger King and convenience stores, the store managers and corporate types make bank while the "Regular" folk scrape by on a nonlivable wage.

Or maybe thats not what chuck meant?
7/10/13 2:57 PM
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IIAces
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JustTheTip -
IIAces - 
epwar -

And another Zuffa mouthpiece trying to conflate two issues.  Yes, we know you started out small, Chuck.  But that was when the company was making no money.  Now the UFC is pulling in $500 million in revenue annually and you have guys who AREN'T making a livable wage.  Why do they always gloss over that?  

How much of that is profit? And how much reserves does the UFC have to keep around to stay liquid before events. You do realize owners of company's profit margins are only 15-20%( if your good). Not much considering they could only sell for what a billion? If they pulled 500 mill a year zuffa's sell price would be over 2.5-5 billion. Find factual numbers bro.

They still have a 400 million dollar debt due in a few years.

So if the net worth is 1.1 billion they are clearing 100mill before taxes year. Phone Post 3.0

Why do you say their worth is $1.1B when Lorenzo himself brags that it is $2B?
My company is worth 10 million. I exaggerated a bit because it sounds better than 7 million. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 3:05 PM
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Canooke
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Nothing could be worth less than kicking back and spewing generous ideas about what other people should do with their earned money. Get out of the cheap seats and put your money where your mouth is. Go build a business and pay people more than they'd be willing to work for. I'll wait.
7/10/13 3:17 PM
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Vote me down
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Cant I dont believe this anymore, UFC is not the old UFC. At all. They have money now.

7/10/13 3:17 PM
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stebrillz
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Can't take that serious when he's been looked after by his bro from the start! Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 3:18 PM
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SiriusXM Fight Club
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Deuce77 - ............says the guy who gets paid by the UFC to do an imaginary job.

Chuck gets paid to be Chuck... He goes to the Fan Expo's, fights, etc. and talks to the fans and represents the company outside the realm of just MMA (Interviews with outside media organizations in TV, print, etc.)  forget Forrest and Stephan, this is a Hall of Famer who helped build the sport while being dominant and leaving a trail o bodies in his wake (The good ol' fashioned entertaining way, via vicious KO). Chuck deserves every penny Zuffa throws his way and frankly, whatever they pay him is not enough. Show some HESPECT!!!!

7/10/13 3:27 PM
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IIAces
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JustTheTip -
IIAces - 
JustTheTip -
IIAces - 
epwar -

And another Zuffa mouthpiece trying to conflate two issues.  Yes, we know you started out small, Chuck.  But that was when the company was making no money.  Now the UFC is pulling in $500 million in revenue annually and you have guys who AREN'T making a livable wage.  Why do they always gloss over that?  

How much of that is profit? And how much reserves does the UFC have to keep around to stay liquid before events. You do realize owners of company's profit margins are only 15-20%( if your good). Not much considering they could only sell for what a billion? If they pulled 500 mill a year zuffa's sell price would be over 2.5-5 billion. Find factual numbers bro.

They still have a 400 million dollar debt due in a few years.

So if the net worth is 1.1 billion they are clearing 100mill before taxes year. Phone Post 3.0

Why do you say their worth is $1.1B when Lorenzo himself brags that it is $2B?
My company is worth 10 million. I exaggerated a bit because it sounds better than 7 million. Phone Post 3.0

So you're not going to offer any sort of evidence why you think it's $1.1B versus $2B other than to say that Fertita is a liar?

Forbes estimated it at $1B back in 2008. You don't think the value has gone up in the last 5 years? You think it went from $2M to $1B from 2001-2008 and then stopped in it's tracks?

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/9/23/1707472/how-much-is-the-ufc-worth
I was just using the number that I last saw. Either way if they profit $500 mill a year Zuffa would still be worth well over 5 billion. Most company's worth are 10-15x the profit they make. As in a company that clears 1 million a year they can sell their company for 10million or more in most cases. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 3:30 PM
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IIAces
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And yes, the ufc is not making nearly the same amount it was a few years ago. Just look at PPV buys. They go down but expenses go up. So yea I do think it has leveled off. Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 3:42 PM
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Kneeblock
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It's pretty disgusting that Zuffa trots out old fighters to parrot this line. The whole meritocracy line is BS.

No fighter is complaining they're not getting paid enough compared to the other fighters. They're complaining they're not getting paid enough based on the revenues of the company. 

If Chuck is going to say he made 2 and 2, does he really think the revenues of the UFC have only increased 200% in the past decade justifying a 6 and 6?

7/10/13 3:45 PM
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IP
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Make yourself look like the true top-of-the-heap MMA organization by establishing a respectable minimum wage for fighters (15/10?).
7/10/13 3:58 PM
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CindyO
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Bellator Fan - The UFC can afford to pay them more fairly for the risks to their health but use performance as an excuse not to. Phone Post 3.0

Viacom can afford to pay them more fairly for the risks to their health but people use Bellators low numbers as an excuse for them not to. Same goes for why they can afford insurance like the UFC does yet doesn't provide it as well as why they don't drug test 100%:)

If the UFC can afford it Viacom dayum sure can, amirite Bellatorfan? :)

 

Cindy


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