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UnderGround Forums >> Chuck Liddell: The UFC is not a welfare state


7/10/13 4:10 PM
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IP
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CindyO - 
Bellator Fan - The UFC can afford to compensate them a little better. Guys are getting knocked out, smashed to pieces etc. They should be compensated for the long-term health risks at a minimum. Phone Post 3.0

Viacom can afford to compensate them a LOT better. Guys are getting knocked out, smashed to pieces etc. They should be compensated for the long-term health risks at a minumum.

 

Cindy


I'm sorry, but to the average MMA fan Bellator is a feeder organization to the UFC. Hell, any other MMA company is a feeder to the UFC. This is an obvious fact.

Fighter pay should reflect that.
7/10/13 4:15 PM
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Macedawgg
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C'Mon Cindy O--it isn't Viacom, it is Bellator. 

Can Bellator afford to pay more? 

 

7/10/13 4:21 PM
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PeaceThroughStrength
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Bellator Fan - The UFC can afford to compensate them a little better. Guys are getting knocked out, smashed to pieces etc. They should be compensated for the long-term health risks at a minimum. Phone Post 3.0

The same argument can be made for many diffrent sports and professions.
They are not forced to fight.They are adults who have decided to fight,and if the are good enough to work their way to the top of their profession then they will be paid more.I know it's very sad,but not all fighters are going to make it to the top.
7/10/13 4:23 PM
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Thacommish
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PeaceThroughStrength - 
Bellator Fan - The UFC can afford to compensate them a little better. Guys are getting knocked out, smashed to pieces etc. They should be compensated for the long-term health risks at a minimum. Phone Post 3.0

The same argument can be made for many diffrent sports and professions.
They are not forced to fight.They are adults who have decided to fight,and if the are good enough to work their way to the top of their profession then they will be paid more.I know it's very sad,but not all fighters are going to make it to the top.

"The UFC can afford to compensate them a little better. Guys are getting knocked out, smashed to pieces etc. They should be compensated for the long-term health risks at a minimum"

How many different sports and professions does getting knocked out and smashed to pieces apply to?
7/10/13 4:36 PM
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jimbonice
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This statement is a wee but ironic coming from Chuck, who was handed a job, for which he was not qualified for, and one in which his boss freely admits he doesn't show up for. He gets paid for no real reason. Do you think that's like welfare? Phone Post
7/10/13 4:37 PM
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GodSaveTheReem
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q
7/10/13 5:00 PM
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CindyO
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Macedawgg - 

Aside from anything else, the guys at the top are not being compensated even remotely similar to counterparts in other sports.

Liddell is simply incorrect in suggesting that boxing only a few get paid.  That just isn't true.  Andre Berto received more pay in his last fight than Jon Fitch did in his entire UFC career.  They are of similar stature.


Aside from anything else, the guys at the top are not being compensated even remotely similar to counterparts in other sports.

Who cares about the guys at the top? We're talking the guys at the bottom:) How do their 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 contracts compare to the low end pay for prelim-level guys in boxing?

 

Cindy

7/10/13 5:13 PM
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Wiggy
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CindyO - How do their 8/8, 10/10, 12/12 contracts compare to the low end pay for prelim-level guys in boxing?

I know, right?

Good thing somebody didn't already post a huge response (from a fan's perspective) on UFC vs boxing.

oh...wait...
7/10/13 5:18 PM
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Ryan Black
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As a "glass half full" type of individual, I'd like to believe that these things will work themselves out in the long run.

The fact that they offer top-of-the-line, full-coverage health insurance to their fighters is a step in the right direction, and considerable compensation for the wear & tear on one's body, in my opinion- and I'm glad to see that Zuffa has instituted such a healthcare policy.

Would I like to see these men & women- who put their long-term health on the line to compete and entertain us- be financially compensated fairly and abundantly? Certainly. I can only hope that these things will come with time and fighter pay will be balanced out accordingly.

And I do agree- for the record- that the guys in charge don't exactly do a stellar job of relaying to the press exactly why the pay-scale is the way it is, when put on the spot. I think they appear to come off as tired of answering questions about it. But they should know that- as long as it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc.- the questions are gonna keep coming until the answers become a bit more palatable. Just my opinion. I'll be the first to admit that I am not economic, business-executive CEO material, and would have no idea how to properly run the massive entity that is Zuffa, LLC. And as I said before, as a fan and a positive-thinker, I'd like to believe these things will hopefully work themselves out over time. Phone Post
7/10/13 5:32 PM
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steveAKAslick
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BuddyRevell -

How much do low-level undercard pro boxers get paid compared to their UFC counterparts?

Chuck said it and it's true, starting out you're lucky to get $100 dollars a round Phone Post 3.0
7/10/13 5:48 PM
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CindyO
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Mdson - I agree with Chuck to a degree.

However, if UFC is where ALL THE BEST FIGHTERS in the world are, they should be compensated like they're amongst the elite in the world.

Just because someone doesn't bring in the value of what they're getting paid right at that moment, who says they can't do that in the future?

Wouldn't a bigger paycheck possibly help that under card guy rise to the next level and help him become a bigger star (=a draw)? And maybe eventually the 'investment' would be worth it?

I know there are lots of 'maybes', but I hope the minimum pay will get higher in the future for the under card guys. With bigger pay they can get better training etc. and get better as fighters and become bigger draws.

However, if UFC is where ALL THE BEST FIGHTERS in the world are, they should be compensated like they're amongst the elite in the world.

They are. Unless you know of another promotion paying fighters more than the UFC does.

Just because someone doesn't bring in the value of what they're getting paid right at that moment, who says they can't do that in the future?

The lower/newer/pre-lim guys sign shorter contracts (3 fights usually) and its essentially a test-drive, IMO. You have to pass the test if you want to stay on the roster. If you can't, you are cut so that another guy can get his test-drive/opportunity. The UFC would be silly to invest in talent if they can't show they are UFC level athletes during this time. There is no future (maybe another shot down the line after you improve) to redeem yourself because fans don't want to watch subpar or boring fighters so why should they be on the card taking up space, especially if they aren't generating any revenue? 

Wouldn't a bigger paycheck possibly help that under card guy rise to the next level and help him become a bigger star (=a draw)? And maybe eventually the 'investment' would be worth it?

They get an increase every time they win a fight. Their purses increase and their win bonuses increase. Plus they can earn discretionary performance based bonuses as well as a shot at $50k OTN bonuses for the best fight, sub, and KO. So if they perform well Zuffa will keep them and it will lead to better money and opportunities. If they don't then they will be cut in order to give another athlete an opportunity. What exactly is wrong with that?

I know there are lots of 'maybes', but I hope the minimum pay will get higher in the future for the under card guys. With bigger pay they can get better training etc. and get better as fighters and become bigger draws.

I wonder how raising the minimum pay will impact the attitudes of the fighters in the next pay group. Like if the 6k/6k, 8k/8k, 10k/10k guys move to 10/12/14, will the current (at the time of the increase) 10/12/14kers feel like they should get more too? Certainly, they have a higher value than the unproven guys just walking in the door so why should the new guys make the same? Or should Zuffa raise their pay too? Wash, lather, rinse, repeat up the roster and you have a nightmare, IMO. But maybe not. What are your thoughts?

 

Cindy

7/10/13 5:50 PM
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CindyO
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TopGrinder - For the most part yeah but ring whore girls get paid more than most fighters its sad. My real problem is the % of these fighters get paid compared to UFC profits. When total payroll for a UFC ppv is 500-900k and UFC live gate is over 2-3 million plus 400k ppv buys the fighters r royally getting fucked over. Fighters r getting paid what10-15% of total revenue? If that? That is some total fuckery right there Phone Post 3.0

For the most part yeah but ring whore girls get paid more than most fighters its sad.

How much do ring card girls make per event?

 

Cindy

7/10/13 6:04 PM
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CindyO
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JustTheTip - 
TopGrinder - For the most part yeah but ring whore girls get paid more than most fighters its sad. My real problem is the % of these fighters get paid compared to UFC profits. When total payroll for a UFC ppv is 500-900k and UFC live gate is over 2-3 million plus 400k ppv buys the fighters r royally getting fucked over. Fighters r getting paid what10-15% of total revenue? If that? That is some total fuckery right there Phone Post 3.0

Ha...this. Arianny's estimated net worth is around $1M. I wonder what percentage of UFC's fighters can say that. Maybe 4-5%? It's sad.

How much of that was event pay by the UFC and how much was sponsorships, modeling, videos, etc that wasn't paid by Zuffa? Because what Arianny is doing is exactly what fighters should be doing, leveraging their brand in as many areas possible while using the UFCs platform as their diving board.

But if you think about it, look how many events per year the RCGs work compared to how often a fighter competes. They have zero real down time where they can just be little fatties all kicked back on the couch until the phone rings with an offer to hold up some cards in 3 months. They're in the gym on a regular basis and waxing, manis, pedis, weaves, and cosmetic and/or surgical procedures (if any) aren't free, just like a fighter training isn't.

Ha! I guess if they worked as often and as hard as Arianny does then they would make as much as she does:)

 

Cindy

7/10/13 6:05 PM
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ChrisWeidmanedmydiameter
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SonOfThePeepHole - Agreed.

BUT

the UFC is so much bigger now they can AFFORD to pay lower level guys better. Phone Post
And that's why the starting guys get 8/8
Jesus Phone Post
7/10/13 6:06 PM
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CindyO
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BTT-RyannVonDoom - 
JustTheTip -
TopGrinder - For the most part yeah but ring whore girls get paid more than most fighters its sad. My real problem is the % of these fighters get paid compared to UFC profits. When total payroll for a UFC ppv is 500-900k and UFC live gate is over 2-3 million plus 400k ppv buys the fighters r royally getting fucked over. Fighters r getting paid what10-15% of total revenue? If that? That is some total fuckery right there Phone Post 3.0

Ha...this. Arianny's estimated net worth is around $1M. I wonder what percentage of UFC's fighters can say that. Maybe 4-5%? It's sad.
Wait what? She was working at ambercrombie and fitch for min wage before she got on as a ring card girl... Fuck man.. The ring card girls are doing better than the actual fighters. Phone Post 3.0

How much did she make when she signed with the UFC 6 years ago and how much does she make now per event?

 

Cindy

7/10/13 6:10 PM
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LILBROCK
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LOL at CindyO trying to justify Arianny making more than 95% of the UFC's roster.
7/10/13 6:18 PM
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LILBROCK
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steveAKAslick - 
BuddyRevell -

How much do low-level undercard pro boxers get paid compared to their UFC counterparts?

Chuck said it and it's true, starting out you're lucky to get $100 dollars a round Phone Post 3.0

Ya, and most 0-0 MMA fighters starting out in bumfuck nowhere make $200 + $200 also. What's your point? We're talking about the UFC here. The pinnacle of the sport. The "Superbowl of MMA" says Dana White. The best fighters in the world.
7/10/13 6:21 PM
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EckY
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The situation for foreign fighters is even worse, some Japanese fighters have essentially had to pay to fight in the UFC and UFC only give them a hotel for 4-5 days around the event which is not nearly enough time, so if they want to come out earlier as they obviously would they have today the difference in airfare and hotels and also they get the problem of being double taxed.

When current fighters, knowing they my be treated differently for speaking out, still speak out, you know there is a problem.
7/10/13 6:24 PM
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Emperor Nero
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its not nice to say ring w___ girls
7/10/13 6:29 PM
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Wiggy
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LILBROCK - 
steveAKAslick - 
BuddyRevell -

How much do low-level undercard pro boxers get paid compared to their UFC counterparts?

Chuck said it and it's true, starting out you're lucky to get $100 dollars a round Phone Post 3.0

Ya, and most 0-0 MMA fighters starting out in bumfuck nowhere make $200 + $200 also. What's your point? We're talking about the UFC here. The pinnacle of the sport. The "Superbowl of MMA" says Dana White. The best fighters in the world.

Since these $100 per round guys in boxing keep being brought up, let's see if it's indeed a true comparison.

Where do these $100/round guys on boxing PPV undercards come from? Meaning (and I'm asking b/c I legitimately don't know) are they put on the prelim/undercard (not talking mid-card type guys - the true "guys on the bottom") are they just local/regional fighters put on there to fill out the card? If a card was in Vegas, would most of the prelim/undercard guys be from the area/region? If a card was put on in Atlantic City, they'd all be from the north east, and so on?

Or are these guys getting paid $100/round coming from anywhere from several states to across the country (or even from another country) to be on said undercard - much like you see on every UFC undercard/prelim?

Are we honestly talking about the same "level" of fighter, here?
7/10/13 6:37 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Starting Salary now and then are not comparable entities with the amount it's grown. THe base is still too low, otherwise he make as a fine point.

7/10/13 6:44 PM
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MTomlinson
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these are the type of threads where so many UG'rs oust themselves as having ZERO business savvy.

a fighters worth is EXACTLY, ONLY, and PRECISELY what a company is willing to pay them, and not a dollar more.

If you don't like the contract; don't sign it. No one is forcing ANYONE to sign ANYTHING.

If the UFC was paying unfair compensation, most fighters in the world wouldn't be scrambling to join up - Fact.

we don't live in an idealogical utopia where we get paid what we THINK we deserve. We get paid what someone else is willing to pay us, period.

 

7/10/13 6:46 PM
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LILBROCK
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Wiggy - 
LILBROCK - 
steveAKAslick - 
BuddyRevell -

How much do low-level undercard pro boxers get paid compared to their UFC counterparts?

Chuck said it and it's true, starting out you're lucky to get $100 dollars a round Phone Post 3.0

Ya, and most 0-0 MMA fighters starting out in bumfuck nowhere make $200 + $200 also. What's your point? We're talking about the UFC here. The pinnacle of the sport. The "Superbowl of MMA" says Dana White. The best fighters in the world.

Since these $100 per round guys in boxing keep being brought up, let's see if it's indeed a true comparison.

Where do these $100/round guys on boxing PPV undercards come from? Meaning (and I'm asking b/c I legitimately don't know) are they put on the prelim/undercard (not talking mid-card type guys - the true "guys on the bottom") are they just local/regional fighters put on there to fill out the card? If a card was in Vegas, would most of the prelim/undercard guys be from the area/region? If a card was put on in Atlantic City, they'd all be from the north east, and so on?

Or are these guys getting paid $100/round coming from anywhere from several states to across the country (or even from another country) to be on said undercard - much like you see on every UFC undercard/prelim?

Are we honestly talking about the same "level" of fighter, here?

No...these guys are trying to compare an 0-0 pro MMA fighter competing at a truck pull in the middle of Kansas to a prelim fighter on a UFC card which will be at the worst on Facebook and if it's exciting, will make it as a filler for the PPV.

And I'm sure they do bring in local guys for big boxing shows, but most boxing undercards are fairly experienced guys too and they're making more than $100/round. I went to a Ricky Hatton fight in Vegas years ago and one of the first fights of the night was his brother, who had something like 40 fights at the time.

Look at just the Mayweather/Cotto fight. Mayweather got a guaranteed $45M, Cotto a guaranteed $8M (expected to be closed to $10M), Mosley $750K, and Alvarez a guaranteed $2M.

Just those 4 guys made around $57M with 1.5M PPV buys.

The UFC had an estimated 1M PPV buys for GSP/Diaz and payed out a reported $1.35M. Factor in another 4M for PPV bonuses to the main eventers, that's $5.3M

Boxing: 1.5M buys= $57M payout (not including rest of card)

UFC: 1M buys= $5.3M payout
7/10/13 7:09 PM
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Macedawgg
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CindyO - 
JustTheTip - 
TopGrinder - For the most part yeah but ring whore girls get paid more than most fighters its sad. My real problem is the % of these fighters get paid compared to UFC profits. When total payroll for a UFC ppv is 500-900k and UFC live gate is over 2-3 million plus 400k ppv buys the fighters r royally getting fucked over. Fighters r getting paid what10-15% of total revenue? If that? That is some total fuckery right there Phone Post 3.0

Ha...this. Arianny's estimated net worth is around $1M. I wonder what percentage of UFC's fighters can say that. Maybe 4-5%? It's sad.

How much of that was event pay by the UFC and how much was sponsorships, modeling, videos, etc that wasn't paid by Zuffa? Because what Arianny is doing is exactly what fighters should be doing, leveraging their brand in as many areas possible while using the UFCs platform as their diving board.

But if you think about it, look how many events per year the RCGs work compared to how often a fighter competes. They have zero real down time where they can just be little fatties all kicked back on the couch until the phone rings with an offer to hold up some cards in 3 months. They're in the gym on a regular basis and waxing, manis, pedis, weaves, and cosmetic and/or surgical procedures (if any) aren't free, just like a fighter training isn't.

Ha! I guess if they worked as often and as hard as Arianny does then they would make as much as she does:)

 

Cindy


Oh goodness. 

No, that isn't how sports should work. 

American Idol--sure.  Sports--no. 

Again, is MMA a sport?  If so, competition determines merit. 

The "platform" and "spring board" analogy is inapplicable.  Do the Yankees provide a "springboard" for Jeter?  Did the Colts provide the "platform" for Peyton Manning? 

Give me a break.

7/10/13 7:55 PM
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JimmersonzGlove
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How much of Arianny's net worth came from that hot song she dropped on the interwebz though? Her wealth may not be all of UFC's doing.


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