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UnderGround Forums >> Is outrage over Cyborg really over aesthetics?


7/11/13 11:05 AM
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Underground Blog
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MixedMartialArts.com
 

Despite a record of 11-1 (9 knockouts) and an intensity that rejects all adjectives, the mixed martial arts community often seems to revile the presence of Cris 'Cyborg' Santos. In their defense, Santos did test positive for stanozolol, an anabolic steroid, after her vicious TKO win over Hiroko Yamanaka in 2011.

However, consider the countless other fighters who have tested positive for banned substances:
•Josh Barnett
•Phil Baroni
•Vitor Belfort
•Stephan Bonnar
•Royce Gracie
•Muhammad Lawal
•Chris Leben
•Nate Marquardt
•Alistair Overeem
•Ken Shamrock
•Sean Sherk
•Antonio Silva
•Thiago Silva
•Chael Sonnen
•Tim Sylvia

The list includes several of UFC's most popular current fighters, former champions of UFC, Pride and Strikeforce, as well as three UFC Hall of Famers. None of these men are vilified in the same undignified light as Santos.

So why can't the general MMA population forgive Santos? The most obvious theory rests simply on one word: aesthetics.

Gina Carano was the face of women's mixed martial arts:

Until this:


Was done by:

Over the next two fights, Cyborg eviscerated Marloes Coenen and Jan Finney. The declarations of beauty had been replaced with adjectives such as "vicious," frightening" and "scary." The modeling gigs were replaced with short YouTube videos displaying Cyborg's strength.

Then there, on the horizon, like a fair maiden of violence, Ronda Rousey emerged onto the scene. She was brash, talented, and hot. Fans begged for a showdown with Cyborg.

Then followed steroid bust, weight disparity, trash talk, contract issues, UFC introduces women, Rousey announced as UFC bantamweight champion, more weight issues, contract negotiations, and Cyborg signs with Invicta FC.

Saturday night Cris Cyborg fights Marloes Coenen for Invicta FC's inaugural Featherweight title.

Who do you think is going to win?

And do you think Cyborg's looks are the cause of such deep enmity over a rules violation that so many other highly respected male fighters have been guilty of?

Read entire article...


7/11/13 11:17 AM
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Arecsa
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Bleacher report rubbish. Any Cyborg hate has nothing to do with her looks. It's about her obvious cheating with steroids, and her unwillingness to even attempt to get down to 135 and fight Ronda in the UFC.
7/11/13 11:18 AM
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Abrtitans
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It's disgustingly obvious that she's on steroids. Anyone that has taken a high school health class can tell you that just by looking at her. Phone Post 3.0
7/11/13 11:32 AM
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T Bag
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She and overeem are the two most obvious steroid abusers in mma history, but overeem had/ has way more supporters than cyborg. I think there's something to the question of how much of the hate directed towards her are due to her manly looks Phone Post 3.0
7/11/13 11:35 AM
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SportScience
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No, Its not. Its because she used a substance consisting of male hormones in a fist fight against a woman and to me that is wrong and a big issue.

This article rubs me the wrong way.
7/11/13 11:42 AM
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FanToFighter
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Why even post an article like this? You ask if she looks like a man! Then when someone says yes you freeze them? Phone Post 3.0
7/11/13 11:43 AM
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BKViper
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Arecsa - Bleacher report rubbish. Any Cyborg hate has nothing to do with her looks. It's about her obvious cheating with steroids, and her unwillingness to even attempt to get down to 135 and fight Ronda in the UFC.
Bingo Phone Post 3.0
7/11/13 11:46 AM
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PointyShinyBurn
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SportScience - No, Its not. Its because she used a substance consisting of male hormones in a fist fight against a woman and to me that is wrong and a big issue.

This article rubs me the wrong way.

Your handle is richly ironic. Stanozolol is not a "male hormone", it doesn't exist in nature at all, and women's bodies produce testosterone as well.

The exaggerated hatred of Cyborg is straight-up misogyny.
7/11/13 11:50 AM
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funkjitsu
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SportScience - No, Its not. Its because she used a substance consisting of male hormones in a fist fight against a woman and to me that is wrong and a big issue.

This article rubs me the wrong way.
Yes... Phone Post
7/11/13 11:53 AM
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funkjitsu
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Its tough enough at times watching girls beat each other up... but for one to be using illegal methods to gain the upper hand? To not be technically superior but rather opt be physically superior? Its tough to look the other way and be okay with this. Phone Post
7/11/13 11:55 AM
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ranier wolfcastle
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cyborg vs fallon fox now!

7/11/13 12:03 PM
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SportScience
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PointyShinyBurn - 
SportScience - No, Its not. Its because she used a substance consisting of male hormones in a fist fight against a woman and to me that is wrong and a big issue.

This article rubs me the wrong way.

Your handle is richly ironic. Stanozolol is not a "male hormone", it doesn't exist in nature at all, and women's bodies produce testosterone as well.

The exaggerated hatred of Cyborg is straight-up misogyny.

Stanozolol is a synthetic anabolic steroid. Anabolic steroids are drugs that have similar effects to testosterone. They increase protein within cells, especially in skeletal muscles. Anabolic steroids also have androgenic and virilizing properties, including the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics such as the growth of the vocal cords, testicles (primary sexual characteristics), and body hair (secondary sexual characteristics). The word anabolic comes from the Greek anabole, "that which is thrown up, mound", and the word androgenic from the Greek andros, "of a man" genes, "born". Wikipedia to the rescue.

Oh and go fuck yourself.
7/11/13 12:06 PM
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DatSpider
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Edited: 07/11/13 12:10 PM
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More Gina, less Cyborg.

 

7/11/13 12:06 PM
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jimbonice
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Great article, and I believe accurate. I just wish cyborg was in the IFC, and in her own division. Phone Post
7/11/13 12:08 PM
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jimbonice
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^^
Ufc Phone Post
7/11/13 12:09 PM
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Jumbo Reverse Shrimp
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T Bag - She and overeem are the two most obvious steroid abusers in mma history, but overeem had/ has way more supporters than cyborg. I think there's something to the question of how much of the hate directed towards her are due to her manly looks Phone Post 3.0

I think half the people on this board have pointed this out by now, but, once again, it's worse when a woman turns herself into a man than when a man makes himself into some hypermasculine beast.
7/11/13 12:21 PM
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MattyECB
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SportScience - 
PointyShinyBurn - 
SportScience - No, Its not. Its because she used a substance consisting of male hormones in a fist fight against a woman and to me that is wrong and a big issue.

This article rubs me the wrong way.

Your handle is richly ironic. Stanozolol is not a "male hormone", it doesn't exist in nature at all, and women's bodies produce testosterone as well.

The exaggerated hatred of Cyborg is straight-up misogyny.

Stanozolol is a synthetic anabolic steroid. Anabolic steroids are drugs that have similar effects to testosterone. They increase protein within cells, especially in skeletal muscles. Anabolic steroids also have androgenic and virilizing properties, including the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics such as the growth of the vocal cords, testicles (primary sexual characteristics), and body hair (secondary sexual characteristics). The word anabolic comes from the Greek anabole, "that which is thrown up, mound", and the word androgenic from the Greek andros, "of a man" genes, "born". Wikipedia to the rescue.

Oh and go fuck yourself.

Ya, I don't know why the hell people argue semantics. I mean for fucks sake, the proper name now for ASs are AAS, Anabolic-Androgen-Steroids ,and they're used to induce male puberty in extreme cases lol

For anyone curious, a thing to add about anabolic, it literally just means building up. It's all your metabolic pathways that synthesize macromolecules and build up bone density, organ size, muscle mass...etc It's the opposite of catabolic which is the breaking down.



7/11/13 12:23 PM
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MyMMAMind
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I dont think this is about aesthetics. This is about her ruining the idea of woman fighting because she chose to cheat with male hormones. I think this insults the entire female fighting sport. I love to watch the woman fight because its more about technique and strategy than strength and power. I dont think she should not be able to fight until she loses that size and muscle that she created by taking those steroids. Then and only then will it be a fair fight. This isnt about looks, this is about a woman fighting another woman, fairly. I dont think we can have a fair fight with cyborg until shes back to the right size and strength that a woman should have naturally. But then again this is just Mymmamind Phone Post 3.0
7/11/13 12:24 PM
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Bearded Collie Herds Orca
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Looks might be a part of it for the layperson, but for people in the know the problem is that the steroids she took change the functional organization of her body and brain more than they would a man. I mean the steroids she got caught taking and the ones she didn't get caught taking but most likely took (judging by her change in physique).

THIS IS A FACT. People saying "females have testosterone too" are not realizing just how different the hormone concentrations are between the sexes. Most of the differences between males and females are due to the organizational and activational effects of hormones. Wikipedia them.

People claiming it's just about looks or misogyny are missing the only point here that matters.
7/11/13 12:26 PM
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Ryan Black
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I don't "hate" Cyborg... I'm just not a fan, and never was. This article is silly. Phone Post
7/11/13 12:26 PM
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Bearded Collie Herds Orca
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MattyECB - 
SportScience - 
PointyShinyBurn - 
SportScience - No, Its not. Its because she used a substance consisting of male hormones in a fist fight against a woman and to me that is wrong and a big issue.

This article rubs me the wrong way.

Your handle is richly ironic. Stanozolol is not a "male hormone", it doesn't exist in nature at all, and women's bodies produce testosterone as well.

The exaggerated hatred of Cyborg is straight-up misogyny.

Stanozolol is a synthetic anabolic steroid. Anabolic steroids are drugs that have similar effects to testosterone. They increase protein within cells, especially in skeletal muscles. Anabolic steroids also have androgenic and virilizing properties, including the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics such as the growth of the vocal cords, testicles (primary sexual characteristics), and body hair (secondary sexual characteristics). The word anabolic comes from the Greek anabole, "that which is thrown up, mound", and the word androgenic from the Greek andros, "of a man" genes, "born". Wikipedia to the rescue.

Oh and go fuck yourself.

Ya, I don't know why the hell people argue semantics. I mean for fucks sake, the proper name now for ASs are AAS, Anabolic-Androgen-Steroids ,and they're used to induce male puberty in extreme cases lol

For anyone curious, a thing to add about anabolic, it literally just means building up. It's all your metabolic pathways that synthesize macromolecules and build up bone density, organ size, muscle mass...etc It's the opposite of catabolic which is the breaking down.




beat me to it. I feel like a dunce even repeating myself on this topic as much as I do, but there's so much ignorance and misinformation being spread that I feel it's necessary. People constantly misinterpret what a T:E ratio implies (introduction of exogenous hormones) and the differential impact of steroids on men and women athletes.
7/11/13 12:27 PM
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MattyECB
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I also dislike the characterization of this article, it purposely picks a hot ass picture of Gina, then shows an badass picture of Cyborg. The dude is doing what he's accusing others of doing.

Not to mention, ppl busted with steroids usually get a ton of heat. Belfort is still shellacked every chance someone gets, Barnette was exiled and considered a pariah cheater for so long, Sonnen's cheating is constantly brought up whenever someone remembers his AS fights...

Basically, if you're busted you're gonna get shit on by people who don't support you. I think the reason Cyborg's heat has been so bad is one, the nascent state of WMMA, the fact that she shows no genuine remorse imo, and that she's demanding a higher weightclass, when a lot of ppl still suspect she's juicing.

Certainly aesthetics play a part, but not because she's a big strong female and Carano was sexy, but because she's got very male characteristics from a male-puberty inducing hormone. If a guy takes steroids, it's hella less obvious, ANY girl, not just Cyborg, taking steroids immediately causes extra concern because it BLURS THE GENDER LINE

There's a fucking reason we have gender classes in MMA. The fact that T supplementation for X years is considered sufficient by ACs and the Olympics Comittee to be considered a man (Remember Fallon Fox anyone?), should immediately fucking explain why people get more angry with female fighters for juicing.
7/11/13 12:28 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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no, i am guessing its the gallons of steroids that have been injected into her body and subsequent brutal beatdowns on girls

7/11/13 12:29 PM
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MattyECB
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Sorry, Fallon Fox was the opposite, but all she did was sugically remove a source of endogenous androgens, then continue a regiment of T-antagonists...

So the point still stands, the official stance of many comittees seems to be your T levels alone are what dictate your, "current," gender... not that I even want to open that whole can of worms, but it certainly provides insight into the extra furor placed on WMMA competitors imo
7/11/13 12:40 PM
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Bearded Collie Herds Orca
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WarWand9 - 

You guys are being super rough on cyborg its pretty crazy.  She made a big mistake and if you look at her now she doesnt look like she is on anything and just as powerful as ever.  I think she deserves a second chance and to let this go. 


Nonsense, nonsense, and more white knighting nonsense. Cry me a river, she's a top 2 female MMA fighter, and her whole legacy reeks of steroid abuse. Plus, just because you stop steroids doesn't mean you lose their benefits, particularly if you are a woman. To the contrary, a large proportion of their effects are long-term.

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