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UnderGround Forums >> Hardy: Fighters are devalued


7/17/13 10:53 PM
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Pay for fighters in the UFC has been a hot topic of debt lately and it seems like everyone has an opinion, including Dan Hardy:

Well, fighter pay is really a strange situation, because there's such a vast difference in the guys that are on the first three fights of a card and the guys on the last three fights of a card. The guys on the lower end are seeing what the main card guys are doing and thinking, 'Well, I'm doing all the same stuff that they're doing, sacrificing just as much.' They're spending just as much on their training camp, but they're not getting the same kind of compensation.

The problem is that the fighters are in a situation where we don't really have a great deal of options, as far as bargaining power. There are 100 guys that would step in and do my job for free. That kind of devalues us. There aren't any options as far as where we can go and what we can do.

With the sponsor fees, it really limits what we can do outside the sport, as well. It's just a very difficult situation to be in. I'm fortunate, because I live an inexpensive life. I've got a few Lego sets and a $7,000 muscle car. Those were my treats throughout my whole career. I've not really spent any money on anything else. I just don't have expensive living costs.

There are fighters out there with kids and families. Now, with there being so many fighters, the guys aren't getting three fights a year any more. It's down to maybe two a year, and it all just comes back to not having many other options. I can understand that the UFC has a business model, and their lower tier fighters fare much better than pro boxers, but it's just not enough to live on.

Training camps consume so much of our time and energy and expenses, as well. We effectively wind up fighting for nothing anyway. Unless you win the belt or break into that PPV buy cut, or are in the very top tier, you just can't get by with it being your sole source of income.

Frankie Edgar recently fought and got a whole chunk of change. He fought really hard, and he deserves that money, but he didn't start making that kind of money until he fought for and won a belt. I've fought for a belt, and I'm certainly not making anywhere near that kind of money.

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7/18/13 12:17 AM
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MAINMAYNARD
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I think he was lucky just to keep his job for as long as he has Phone Post
7/18/13 4:17 AM
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ASBELTOMATO
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agree with article
7/18/13 4:40 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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MAINMAYNARD -  I think he was lucky just to keep his job for as long as he has Phone Post

Doesn't change his right to a relevent opinion through the experience he's garnered.

I will see some of the same people that bitch about Edgar's style not finishing fights, laughing at Dan Hardy's record and losing streak, which the mark of a true imbecile because he lost going for finishes and trying to entertain as much as possible doing it.

ANyone who mocks Dan Hardy either:

A. Hates British people altogther.

B. Prefers point or Lnp fighting.

C. Hates fireworks in a fight.

 

Oh noes the UFC kept him even when he lost 4 in a row, give it a rest he put on a show win or lose

7/18/13 4:48 AM
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Tilla
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ChaosOverkill - 
MAINMAYNARD -  I think he was lucky just to keep his job for as long as he has Phone Post

Doesn't change his right to a relevent opinion through the experience he's garnered.

I will see some of the same people that bitch about Edgar's style not finishing fights, laughing at Dan Hardy's record and losing streak, which the mark of a true imbecile because he lost going for finishes and trying to entertain as much as possible doing it.

ANyone who mocks Dan Hardy either:

A. Hates British people altogther.

B. Prefers point or Lnp fighting.

C. Hates fireworks in a fight.

 

Oh noes the UFC kept him even when he lost 4 in a row, give it a rest he put on a show win or lose


Agreed with both of you.

I could listen to/read Hardy interviews all day long. Dude is smart, articulate and doesn't come across like a meathead.

Great guy and entertaining as hell.

But he's got a point. It's easy for Dana to say "get a second Job", but like Dan say's, there's no time or energy for a second job.
7/18/13 4:50 AM
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Pancake Syrup Ali
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Leonard Garcia was kept until he lost his 5th straight fight....time to stop bashing Hardy

7/18/13 5:19 AM
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
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Dan's awesome but this 'poor fighter' mantra I keep hearing is becoming tiresome.

In any organisation regardless of what it's involved in - MMA, Retail or whatever, there is a varied pay scale.

Typically the less experienced folk (adding less value to the business) are paid far less than the more experienced guys at the top (who add more value). This is normal and makes sense.

Why do fighters think they're special cases who don't have to rise through the ranks?

Most employees declare their pay is not fair nor representative of the revenue their employers generate.

Tough shit!! Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 5:37 AM
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Standup29
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Hardy makes some good points but they hold true to majority of jobs out there. I make more than some coworkers because I negotiated better up front and I work harder than many who make more than me. It's life. With our current lifestyle I'd be fucked if my wife lost her job.

The fighters deserve more money that is a fact, but your only going to get paid what you can negotiate. And in MMA, your negotiating power is determined based on your fan base and accomplishments. Phone Post
7/18/13 5:39 AM
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BigFootsSkinnyArm
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Dan trying to sell wolf tickets.
7/18/13 5:48 AM
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elliotc
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MAINMAYNARD - I think he was lucky just to keep his job for as long as he has Phone Post
Lucky in what way? Lucky he played a part in exciting fights? Lucky he created fan interest? Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 5:58 AM
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Evzey
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BigFootsSkinnyArm - Dan trying to sell wolf tickets.
Not cool Phone Post
7/18/13 8:44 AM
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iodio
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He is right about people fighting just twice per year and you now it's a shame because you can't even talk about professional sport if you perform twice per year (without injuries).
7/18/13 8:48 AM
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StratTone
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Without Hardy saying how much he has made in the UFC over the years its impossible to form an opinion.  I don't see how he can be that strapped.  He was well liked by the UFC and I was under the impression that Hardy was paid well for his services and think that he should have been.  No I don't think in the millions but given the entertainment value he brought I would assume/hope he was paid some decent bonuses.

7/18/13 9:09 AM
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Porkchop
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BigFootsSkinnyArm - Dan trying to sell wolf tickets.

Wolf heart tickets imo.

All this talk of fighter pay.... It just makes me think more and more that these guys should do something else with their lives.

In the real world men have to decide on a job based on how much they are going to make so they can buy a house/car/save for retirement/etc. I know most fighters think they are going to be world champion one day, but I wish more of these guys would just accept that they might not and it might be time to move on to a job that has a steadier pay.

I mean, it seems like these guys want the type of job that gives them a regular paycheck. There are plenty of those jobs out there.

Look up Mike Rowe's charity that he has....

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/

This charity is all about filling job openings that are out there. According to Mike, there are tonnes of jobs that are available but no one is applying to them. They aren't sexy jobs, or jobs that get you on the cover of sports illustrated, but they are jobs where you don't have to struggle through life anymore.

There are plenty of jobs where if you put in a few years you will be making six figures. The problem is that no one is applying for these jobs. Everyone wants to be a movie star or a world champion athlete. Sometimes, you just have to do the smart thing and take a job that gives you a good future.

That is a great place to start.
7/18/13 9:21 AM
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Nada MT
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Fighting for a living is outside the conventional norm of society and as a sport it is fringe at best. True its the fastest growing sport in the world right now ...but its still fringe.

Since when did "following your dream" come with a paycheque that guarantees you a comfortable life?

Do starving artists or musicians demand base pay for mediocre work? You sell your paintings for what the market dictates and as you grow as an artist your work will demand more attention and money. If you are an "actor" you are pretty much a "waiter" until you get your break.

Same goes for fighters. If you don't like what you are paid in the ufc because of the limited fights per year you can go cut your teeth in other organizations that may allow you to fight or countries to try to make a living. You can teach classes. You can be a personal trainer. You can do 100 other jobs to help make ends meet and still allows you to train daily.

The world owes you nothing and most certainly the UFC does not owe you enough fights per year for you to make a living. The are not purposely devaluing you they are trying to put on exciting fights that people want to see, sorry if that's not you.
7/18/13 9:49 AM
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CindyO
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Nada MT - Fighting for a living is outside the conventional norm of society and as a sport it is fringe at best. True its the fastest growing sport in the world right now ...but its still fringe.

Since when did "following your dream" come with a paycheque that guarantees you a comfortable life?

Do starving artists or musicians demand base pay for mediocre work? You sell your paintings for what the market dictates and as you grow as an artist your work will demand more attention and money. If you are an "actor" you are pretty much a "waiter" until you get your break.

Same goes for fighters. If you don't like what you are paid in the ufc because of the limited fights per year you can go cut your teeth in other organizations that may allow you to fight or countries to try to make a living. You can teach classes. You can be a personal trainer. You can do 100 other jobs to help make ends meet and still allows you to train daily.

The world owes you nothing and most certainly the UFC does not owe you enough fights per year for you to make a living. The are not purposely devaluing you they are trying to put on exciting fights that people want to see, sorry if that's not you.

 

Cindy

7/18/13 9:58 AM
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shaqitup
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Standup29 -  Hardy makes some good points but they hold true to majority of jobs out there. I make more than some coworkers because I negotiated better up front and I work harder than many who make more than me. It's life. With our current lifestyle I'd be fucked if my wife lost her job.

The fighters deserve more money that is a fact, but your only going to get paid what you can negotiate. And in MMA, your negotiating power is determined based on your fan base and accomplishments. Phone Post

Most fighters have absolutely zero negotiating power, it's pretty much "i'll pay you this ammount bud, what you gonna go to bellator?"

IMO the guys with negotiating power are the guys that could be game changers for another org like bellator if they just up and left.

These would be guys like GSP, Jones, Anderson,

7/18/13 10:04 AM
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Phil999
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I wasn't aware that there is a Sponser tax.
7/18/13 10:05 AM
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Phil999
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CindyO - 
Nada MT - Fighting for a living is outside the conventional norm of society and as a sport it is fringe at best. True its the fastest growing sport in the world right now ...but its still fringe.

Since when did "following your dream" come with a paycheque that guarantees you a comfortable life?

Do starving artists or musicians demand base pay for mediocre work? You sell your paintings for what the market dictates and as you grow as an artist your work will demand more attention and money. If you are an "actor" you are pretty much a "waiter" until you get your break.

Same goes for fighters. If you don't like what you are paid in the ufc because of the limited fights per year you can go cut your teeth in other organizations that may allow you to fight or countries to try to make a living. You can teach classes. You can be a personal trainer. You can do 100 other jobs to help make ends meet and still allows you to train daily.

The world owes you nothing and most certainly the UFC does not owe you enough fights per year for you to make a living. The are not purposely devaluing you they are trying to put on exciting fights that people want to see, sorry if that's not you.

 

Cindy


Why do you bother? you only have one predictable response and we have all seen it many times.
7/18/13 10:06 AM
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Arlovskis Chin
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Porkchop -
BigFootsSkinnyArm - Dan trying to sell wolf tickets.

Wolf heart tickets imo.

All this talk of fighter pay.... It just makes me think more and more that these guys should do something else with their lives.

In the real world men have to decide on a job based on how much they are going to make so they can buy a house/car/save for retirement/etc. I know most fighters think they are going to be world champion one day, but I wish more of these guys would just accept that they might not and it might be time to move on to a job that has a steadier pay.

I mean, it seems like these guys want the type of job that gives them a regular paycheck. There are plenty of those jobs out there.

Look up Mike Rowe's charity that he has....

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/

This charity is all about filling job openings that are out there. According to Mike, there are tonnes of jobs that are available but no one is applying to them. They aren't sexy jobs, or jobs that get you on the cover of sports illustrated, but they are jobs where you don't have to struggle through life anymore.

There are plenty of jobs where if you put in a few years you will be making six figures. The problem is that no one is applying for these jobs. Everyone wants to be a movie star or a world champion athlete. Sometimes, you just have to do the smart thing and take a job that gives you a good future.

That is a great place to start.
Brother you make a choice at a young age whether to work for money or work for love. You can't tell people to get 9-5s married and have kids if they don't want to Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 11:27 AM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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The issue with fighter pay isn't so much the amount they're being paid as much as what percentage of the revenue are fighters making. Are they making even close to the revenue percentage that NBA or NFL players are? Or MLS even?

We can't really know because of the private nature of the UFC, which is totally fine. But I tend to think they're not because it would be pretty easy to just show everyone and get rid of this bad publicity if that was the case. Phone Post
7/18/13 11:51 AM
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Standup29
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Arlovskis Chin -
Porkchop -
BigFootsSkinnyArm - Dan trying to sell wolf tickets.

Wolf heart tickets imo.

All this talk of fighter pay.... It just makes me think more and more that these guys should do something else with their lives.

In the real world men have to decide on a job based on how much they are going to make so they can buy a house/car/save for retirement/etc. I know most fighters think they are going to be world champion one day, but I wish more of these guys would just accept that they might not and it might be time to move on to a job that has a steadier pay.

I mean, it seems like these guys want the type of job that gives them a regular paycheck. There are plenty of those jobs out there.

Look up Mike Rowe's charity that he has....

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/

This charity is all about filling job openings that are out there. According to Mike, there are tonnes of jobs that are available but no one is applying to them. They aren't sexy jobs, or jobs that get you on the cover of sports illustrated, but they are jobs where you don't have to struggle through life anymore.

There are plenty of jobs where if you put in a few years you will be making six figures. The problem is that no one is applying for these jobs. Everyone wants to be a movie star or a world champion athlete. Sometimes, you just have to do the smart thing and take a job that gives you a good future.

That is a great place to start.
Brother you make a choice at a young age whether to work for money or work for love. You can't tell people to get 9-5s married and have kids if they don't want to Phone Post 3.0
So shouldn't that choice come with the reality of potentially struggling financially?

Pretty much every job out there is for a company that profits from the work of others. The top make $$ off the hard work of others or earn considerably more for the same work.

I want the fighters to make more but it drives me crazy when it is percieved that they should simply because the owners make more or other fighters make more. Phone Post
7/18/13 11:58 AM
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Standup29
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - The issue with fighter pay isn't so much the amount they're being paid as much as what percentage of the revenue are fighters making. Are they making even close to the revenue percentage that NBA or NFL players are? Or MLS even?

We can't really know because of the private nature of the UFC, which is totally fine. But I tend to think they're not because it would be pretty easy to just show everyone and get rid of this bad publicity if that was the case. Phone Post
They won't. Do these sports reinvest profits back into the company outside of trying to get the best talent?

Do you think the teams in the NBA or NFL or whatever sports league would spend as much money on players if there was only 1 team? Those athletes make that kind of money because there are several teams that want the best. They pay the least amount they can for each. It just so happens the least is a lot more than MMA pays its least.

It just isn't comparable to use team based sports as a comparison of pay % vs profit. If Bellator or some other promotion gets its act together and actually becomes an equal to the UFC, you will see a huge pay increase, unfortunately longer term contracts will follow that increase. Phone Post
7/18/13 12:23 PM
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StratTone
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Standup29 - 
Arlovskis Chin -
Porkchop -
BigFootsSkinnyArm - Dan trying to sell wolf tickets.

Wolf heart tickets imo.

All this talk of fighter pay.... It just makes me think more and more that these guys should do something else with their lives.

In the real world men have to decide on a job based on how much they are going to make so they can buy a house/car/save for retirement/etc. I know most fighters think they are going to be world champion one day, but I wish more of these guys would just accept that they might not and it might be time to move on to a job that has a steadier pay.

I mean, it seems like these guys want the type of job that gives them a regular paycheck. There are plenty of those jobs out there.

Look up Mike Rowe's charity that he has....

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/

This charity is all about filling job openings that are out there. According to Mike, there are tonnes of jobs that are available but no one is applying to them. They aren't sexy jobs, or jobs that get you on the cover of sports illustrated, but they are jobs where you don't have to struggle through life anymore.

There are plenty of jobs where if you put in a few years you will be making six figures. The problem is that no one is applying for these jobs. Everyone wants to be a movie star or a world champion athlete. Sometimes, you just have to do the smart thing and take a job that gives you a good future.

That is a great place to start.
Brother you make a choice at a young age whether to work for money or work for love. You can't tell people to get 9-5s married and have kids if they don't want to Phone Post 3.0
So shouldn't that choice come with the reality of potentially struggling financially?

Pretty much every job out there is for a company that profits from the work of others. The top make $$ off the hard work of others or earn considerably more for the same work.

I want the fighters to make more but it drives me crazy when it is percieved that they should simply because the owners make more or other fighters make more. Phone Post

Totally agree with your frustration.

7/18/13 12:43 PM
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Nada MT
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lol at comparing the UFC to the NBA, NFL, NHL.

Maybe thats the answer. Teams. The teams pay the fighters...not the UFC.

They throw their money where they want, there would be tryouts to make the teams. Scouts at smaller organizations etc.

The teams would get their money from shareholders and majority owners like any other franchise.

That way when you can't make the team you go on with your life.

Each Team has a minor league team they sponsor. When you welterweight gets injured the fight isn't cancelled...your minor league replacement steps in. No more cancelled cards.

The minor leagues would probably be the most exciting fights just like minors in hockey.

The unions would step in of course making sure there are minimums and health care, but the UFC no longer cares because they are going to make their money regardless now and they don't have to deal directly with the fighters.

All you armchair warriors can buy season tickets and walmart and avon can sell baby sleepers with your teams logo on them.

The worst case scenario is that I'm from Toronto...meaning if this every happened my team would probably suck.


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