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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan: Mayweather gets killed by average wrestler


7/19/13 2:47 PM
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Slobonmynog
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Im a blue belt in bjj that trains 5 times a week. I also train judo twice a week (not ranked as I do it to supplement bjj but I can hang with ordinary black belts on the feet). I weigh 190.

In 10 fights - street, ring, cage etc... Floyd clips me before I can do anything to him ten times. I used to box and have an ok chin.

Ppl dont seem to realise the different level of athlete pro fighters are.

99% of blue belts would get crumpled. There is the odd animal out there that may be able to do some serious damage - they just havent arrived yet and usually have an extensive history in something else. An example would be phil davis who won the nogi world championships at blue belt.

To the guys who are saying different - your probably not one of those guys! Phone Post
7/19/13 2:51 PM
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Maksemous
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Marcelo Garcia has an 0-1 MMA record. Doesn't mean he's not fantastic at what he does. Rulon Gardner beat Alexander Karelin, but never went very far in MMA.

I agree with most of what Joe is saying. However, I'll try to break it down logically to make a sound argument for Floyd. Maybe Floyd is better at what he does. It's almost like giving the medical professional of the year award to a dentist instead of an MD. The dentist may only work on the mouth, but he's that much better at what he does than all the other doctors.




Mayweather "skill" points:

Striking: 100
Grappling: 0


Mayweather: 100

Jon Jones "skill" points

Striking: 49.5
Grappling: 50

Jon Jones: 99.5

Marcelo Garcia "skill" points

Striking: 2
Grappling:97

Marcelo Garcia: 99
7/19/13 2:55 PM
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MarcVanBas
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I read these threads for the chuckles, thanks.
7/19/13 3:38 PM
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thegoldenboy
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You people simply cannot understand how fast and hard boxers punch, let alone fucking Floyd Mayweather. Honest to god, he would knock you out before you could even blink. Some of you have said that if Floyd misses the punch you could get him down, what you don't realise is that he would NEVER miss a punch.

The only people who could beat Floyd in a street fight are those who are professional MMA fighters and KNOW before hand they are fighting a boxer, even then there is a legitimate chance they get clipped and fall like a sack of shit. Of course I'm not talking about the cage here. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 4:42 AM
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neil11
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In the UK we have ' celebrity mum of the year' and other such shite.
Normally Kerry Katona or Jordan wins the award ( google them )
They are two of the worst human beings on the planet however they give the sponsors publicity.
My point is, if joe bloggs the high school wrestler won Fighter of the Year, no-one would buy the magazine or take an interest in the event. Regardless of his skill as a fighter.
FMJ generates huge amounts of money, publicity and interest therefore it makes sense to have him on your front cover! Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 5:50 AM
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Slobonmynog
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I cant leave this thread alone!

From the other side.This is like saying an amateur boxer with a couple years experience would beat cobrinha in stand up.

Id still put my money on cobrinha due to speed and knowledge of body mechanics. Phone Post
7/20/13 7:06 AM
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thegoldenboy
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SquishyCheeks - 
Gomrad - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - To the guy that thinks he would beat Floyd in a street fight, you would wake up in the hospital not even knowing what happened? yes Floyd would lose an mms fight to pro mms fighters but he's not losing in the street to blue belts that's stupid. Phone Post 3.0

That doesn't make sense. A street fight has less rules than an MMA match. Only the rules save a boxer from a rounded MMA fighter. That's just an undeniable fact.

The only difference it being a street fight would make, is that the MMA fighter would 12-6 elbows and head-but and soccer kick and knee the head when they're down. etc.
So Floyd is losing street fights to anyone that's done a year of bjj in some strip mall? Give me a fucking break. Street fights 9 times out if ten start with fists. Floyd throws one punch and it's over the average schmo never sees it coming. Phone Post 3.0

Notice how you're forced to reach toward the extreme? Sure, Floyd would have a great chance against somebody with almost no training.

A solid highschool wrestler beats Floyd 9/10 times. JJ just makes it easier.

Or, does Floyd have some training that I'm not considering? Did Floyd wrestle or anything? I honestly don't know.
"Solid HS wrestler beats World Champion Prize Fighter 9 out 10 times in a fight"

I pray you are trolling Phone Post 3.0

I guess you think I meant a strong HS wrestler beats him in a boxing match? That's not what I meant, no.

You overestimate little Floyd's ability to box off his back with his head busted open.

You don't know what your fucking on about. The wrestler would never see the punches coming you idiot, he'd be knocked out before he even shoots. When you get into a street fight you square off first and in that tiny period of time Floyd would fire a combination from hell straight to the wrestlers chin. He would not miss a single punch. A punch is much faster than a takedown and Floyd would end the fight before it even started. Of course in the cage it would be completely different but the cage isn't the fucking street.
7/20/13 7:11 AM
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thegoldenboy
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SquishyCheeks - 
Gomrad - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - To the guy that thinks he would beat Floyd in a street fight, you would wake up in the hospital not even knowing what happened? yes Floyd would lose an mms fight to pro mms fighters but he's not losing in the street to blue belts that's stupid. Phone Post 3.0

That doesn't make sense. A street fight has less rules than an MMA match. Only the rules save a boxer from a rounded MMA fighter. That's just an undeniable fact.

The only difference it being a street fight would make, is that the MMA fighter would 12-6 elbows and head-but and soccer kick and knee the head when they're down. etc.
So Floyd is losing street fights to anyone that's done a year of bjj in some strip mall? Give me a fucking break. Street fights 9 times out if ten start with fists. Floyd throws one punch and it's over the average schmo never sees it coming. Phone Post 3.0

Notice how you're forced to reach toward the extreme? Sure, Floyd would have a great chance against somebody with almost no training.

A solid highschool wrestler beats Floyd 9/10 times. JJ just makes it easier.

Or, does Floyd have some training that I'm not considering? Did Floyd wrestle or anything? I honestly don't know.
"Solid HS wrestler beats World Champion Prize Fighter 9 out 10 times in a fight"

I pray you are trolling Phone Post 3.0

I guess you think I meant a strong HS wrestler beats him in a boxing match? That's not what I meant, no.

You overestimate little Floyd's ability to box off his back with his head busted open.

You also simply don't understand that the majority of street fights materialise very quickly. In these situations the fighter will almost always rely on the quickest form of attack to end the fight which is PUNCHES. That is why the wrestler would get knocked out, he wouldn't even realise he's in a fight until after he got smashed to pieces. I can't stress enough how you have NO IDEA how fast elite boxers punch, let alone the FUCKING P4P BEST BOXER ON THE PLANET. He would throw 10 punches straight to the jaw before you even bat an eye.
7/20/13 9:30 AM
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Leigh
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Lol @ comparing Randy Couture to a HS wrestler. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Phone Post
7/20/13 10:44 AM
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Gomrad
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thegoldenboy -
SquishyCheeks - 
Gomrad - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - To the guy that thinks he would beat Floyd in a street fight, you would wake up in the hospital not even knowing what happened? yes Floyd would lose an mms fight to pro mms fighters but he's not losing in the street to blue belts that's stupid. Phone Post 3.0

That doesn't make sense. A street fight has less rules than an MMA match. Only the rules save a boxer from a rounded MMA fighter. That's just an undeniable fact.

The only difference it being a street fight would make, is that the MMA fighter would 12-6 elbows and head-but and soccer kick and knee the head when they're down. etc.
So Floyd is losing street fights to anyone that's done a year of bjj in some strip mall? Give me a fucking break. Street fights 9 times out if ten start with fists. Floyd throws one punch and it's over the average schmo never sees it coming. Phone Post 3.0

Notice how you're forced to reach toward the extreme? Sure, Floyd would have a great chance against somebody with almost no training.

A solid highschool wrestler beats Floyd 9/10 times. JJ just makes it easier.

Or, does Floyd have some training that I'm not considering? Did Floyd wrestle or anything? I honestly don't know.
"Solid HS wrestler beats World Champion Prize Fighter 9 out 10 times in a fight"

I pray you are trolling Phone Post 3.0

I guess you think I meant a strong HS wrestler beats him in a boxing match? That's not what I meant, no.

You overestimate little Floyd's ability to box off his back with his head busted open.

You also simply don't understand that the majority of street fights materialise very quickly. In these situations the fighter will almost always rely on the quickest form of attack to end the fight which is PUNCHES. That is why the wrestler would get knocked out, he wouldn't even realise he's in a fight until after he got smashed to pieces. I can't stress enough how you have NO IDEA how fast elite boxers punch, let alone the FUCKING P4P BEST BOXER ON THE PLANET. He would throw 10 punches straight to the jaw before you even bat an eye.
I am starting to think squishy cheeks is a troll

I have coached high school wrestling and taught for the past 16 years,
coaching 40 state placers, 16 state finalists, And 9 State champions. 15 of them have become All-Americans With three being national champions. A kid on my team just won Junior national championship in Fargo this week...

I started wrestling in 1988, Started grappling in 1995.... I'm actually on my way in now to teach wrestling class at an MMA gym...

This is my point of reference...

I'm not saying some savage high school kids would've win in a real fight against some professional boxers

But to say the high school kids would beat up Mayweather Is just plain stupid... Almost as bad as saying 135lb female fighters would beat FWJ in a street fight

You are either a troll Or a fool Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 10:52 AM
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Periodik
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Gomrad - 
thegoldenboy -
SquishyCheeks - 
Gomrad - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - To the guy that thinks he would beat Floyd in a street fight, you would wake up in the hospital not even knowing what happened? yes Floyd would lose an mms fight to pro mms fighters but he's not losing in the street to blue belts that's stupid. Phone Post 3.0

That doesn't make sense. A street fight has less rules than an MMA match. Only the rules save a boxer from a rounded MMA fighter. That's just an undeniable fact.

The only difference it being a street fight would make, is that the MMA fighter would 12-6 elbows and head-but and soccer kick and knee the head when they're down. etc.
So Floyd is losing street fights to anyone that's done a year of bjj in some strip mall? Give me a fucking break. Street fights 9 times out if ten start with fists. Floyd throws one punch and it's over the average schmo never sees it coming. Phone Post 3.0

Notice how you're forced to reach toward the extreme? Sure, Floyd would have a great chance against somebody with almost no training.

A solid highschool wrestler beats Floyd 9/10 times. JJ just makes it easier.

Or, does Floyd have some training that I'm not considering? Did Floyd wrestle or anything? I honestly don't know.
"Solid HS wrestler beats World Champion Prize Fighter 9 out 10 times in a fight"

I pray you are trolling Phone Post 3.0

I guess you think I meant a strong HS wrestler beats him in a boxing match? That's not what I meant, no.

You overestimate little Floyd's ability to box off his back with his head busted open.

You also simply don't understand that the majority of street fights materialise very quickly. In these situations the fighter will almost always rely on the quickest form of attack to end the fight which is PUNCHES. That is why the wrestler would get knocked out, he wouldn't even realise he's in a fight until after he got smashed to pieces. I can't stress enough how you have NO IDEA how fast elite boxers punch, let alone the FUCKING P4P BEST BOXER ON THE PLANET. He would throw 10 punches straight to the jaw before you even bat an eye.
I am starting to think squishy cheeks is a troll

I have coached high school wrestling and taught for the past 16 years,
coaching 40 state placers, 16 state finalists, And 9 State champions. 15 of them have become All-Americans With three being national champions. A kid on my team just won Junior national championship in Fargo this week...

I started wrestling in 1988, Started grappling in 1995.... I'm actually on my way in now to teach wrestling class at an MMA gym...

This is my point of reference...

I'm not saying some savage high school kids would've win in a real fight against some professional boxers

But to say the high school kids would beat up Mayweather Is just plain stupid... Almost as bad as saying 135lb female fighters would beat FWJ in a street fight

You are either a troll Or a fool Phone Post 3.0

With that much experience I can't fathom how you could FMJ over someone with pretty good grappling skills.

In the early days of the UFC we saw European kickboxing champions and Karate black belts get dropped on their heads and pounded out or get pulled into guard and choked out.

Boxing is a great self defense if your opponent is planning on standing with you. But you're telling me that if a grappler wants to take a guy to the ground who has ZERO takedown defense, he can't just because that guy is arguably the P4P best boxer today, then you sir are the one trolling.
7/20/13 11:03 AM
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Slobonmynog
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Periodik -
Gomrad - 
thegoldenboy -
SquishyCheeks - 
Gomrad - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - To the guy that thinks he would beat Floyd in a street fight, you would wake up in the hospital not even knowing what happened? yes Floyd would lose an mms fight to pro mms fighters but he's not losing in the street to blue belts that's stupid. Phone Post 3.0

That doesn't make sense. A street fight has less rules than an MMA match. Only the rules save a boxer from a rounded MMA fighter. That's just an undeniable fact.

The only difference it being a street fight would make, is that the MMA fighter would 12-6 elbows and head-but and soccer kick and knee the head when they're down. etc.
So Floyd is losing street fights to anyone that's done a year of bjj in some strip mall? Give me a fucking break. Street fights 9 times out if ten start with fists. Floyd throws one punch and it's over the average schmo never sees it coming. Phone Post 3.0

Notice how you're forced to reach toward the extreme? Sure, Floyd would have a great chance against somebody with almost no training.

A solid highschool wrestler beats Floyd 9/10 times. JJ just makes it easier.

Or, does Floyd have some training that I'm not considering? Did Floyd wrestle or anything? I honestly don't know.
"Solid HS wrestler beats World Champion Prize Fighter 9 out 10 times in a fight"

I pray you are trolling Phone Post 3.0

I guess you think I meant a strong HS wrestler beats him in a boxing match? That's not what I meant, no.

You overestimate little Floyd's ability to box off his back with his head busted open.

You also simply don't understand that the majority of street fights materialise very quickly. In these situations the fighter will almost always rely on the quickest form of attack to end the fight which is PUNCHES. That is why the wrestler would get knocked out, he wouldn't even realise he's in a fight until after he got smashed to pieces. I can't stress enough how you have NO IDEA how fast elite boxers punch, let alone the FUCKING P4P BEST BOXER ON THE PLANET. He would throw 10 punches straight to the jaw before you even bat an eye.
I am starting to think squishy cheeks is a troll

I have coached high school wrestling and taught for the past 16 years,
coaching 40 state placers, 16 state finalists, And 9 State champions. 15 of them have become All-Americans With three being national champions. A kid on my team just won Junior national championship in Fargo this week...

I started wrestling in 1988, Started grappling in 1995.... I'm actually on my way in now to teach wrestling class at an MMA gym...

This is my point of reference...

I'm not saying some savage high school kids would've win in a real fight against some professional boxers

But to say the high school kids would beat up Mayweather Is just plain stupid... Almost as bad as saying 135lb female fighters would beat FWJ in a street fight

You are either a troll Or a fool Phone Post 3.0

With that much experience I can't fathom how you could FMJ over someone with pretty good grappling skills.

In the early days of the UFC we saw European kickboxing champions and Karate black belts get dropped on their heads and pounded out or get pulled into guard and choked out.

Boxing is a great self defense if your opponent is planning on standing with you. But you're telling me that if a grappler wants to take a guy to the ground who has ZERO takedown defense, he can't just because that guy is arguably the P4P best boxer today, then you sir are the one trolling.
A guy like Floyd is not going to be easy to take down. Hes lightning fast with incredible reflexes.

The wrestler has to get his hands on him before he gets clipped. Easier said than done.

I think thats the guys point. Phone Post
7/20/13 11:11 AM
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dermotfix
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F this.

I'm going back to bed.

7/20/13 12:02 PM
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tenchu
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Multidimensional-fighter who can fight in all ranges beats one-dimesnional fighter.

It's amazing how in denial boxing fans are.

All these arguments about how fast a boxer is, or a boxer will just knock out a guy before he gets taken down, were the same arguments made when the UFC started and yet grapplers consistently beat boxers and strikers.

People realize this and find it appealing. It probably partly explains why MMA is more popular than boxing now among the younger demographic (at least confirmed in the US).
7/20/13 12:28 PM
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MarcVanBas
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Edited: 07/20/13 12:30 PM
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I think people need to remember that even ufc 1 was still a 1 v 1 sporting contest and not a street fight, ask Falcao and his friend what can still happen to you in a street fight even with your bjj black belt and years of mma training.

Shit can get scary real quick and your blue belt might not come in as handy as you thought.
7/20/13 12:35 PM
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FightToLive
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FYI......Never debate with Joe! You will NOT win! Fukn guy should have been a criminal lawyer!
Love Joe! Funny dude.

Hey Joe what kind of car do you Lease?
7/20/13 12:52 PM
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Leigh
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tenchu - Multidimensional-fighter who can fight in all ranges beats one-dimesnional fighter.

It's amazing how in denial boxing fans are.

All these arguments about how fast a boxer is, or a boxer will just knock out a guy before he gets taken down, were the same arguments made when the UFC started and yet grapplers consistently beat boxers and strikers.

People realize this and find it appealing. It probably partly explains why MMA is more popular than boxing now among the younger demographic (at least confirmed in the US).
I don't think anyone is arguing that a boxer can beat a professional MMA fighter at MMA most of the time. They are arguing that high school kids and bjj blue belts with no cross training cannot beat Floyd Mayweather.

Most people agree that a collegiate wrestler is a helluva athlete and would probably take pbf down. Phone Post
7/20/13 1:12 PM
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thegoldenboy
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Leigh - 
tenchu - Multidimensional-fighter who can fight in all ranges beats one-dimesnional fighter.

It's amazing how in denial boxing fans are.

All these arguments about how fast a boxer is, or a boxer will just knock out a guy before he gets taken down, were the same arguments made when the UFC started and yet grapplers consistently beat boxers and strikers.

People realize this and find it appealing. It probably partly explains why MMA is more popular than boxing now among the younger demographic (at least confirmed in the US).
I don't think anyone is arguing that a boxer can beat a professional MMA fighter at MMA most of the time. They are arguing that high school kids and bjj blue belts with no cross training cannot beat Floyd Mayweather.

Most people agree that a collegiate wrestler is a helluva athlete and would probably take pbf down. Phone Post

I completely agree that in the cage an elite wrestler has a significant chance to take Floyd down and do some damage BUT there is also a significant chance that Floyd knocks him out before the takedown is complete.

What I am saying is that the cage is nothing like the street. Before an MMA fight, if you were a wrestler and you were fighting a boxer you would be mentally prepared and ready to execute the moves that are needed to win the fight. In the street there is no such thing, and the majority of street fights go from 0-100 MPH in a few seconds. My point is that by the time the wrestler even thought of a takedown or realised he was in a fight he would already be knocked out cold. Floyd would throw a vicious combination at lightning speed straight to the chin before the wrestler would understand that he must take his opponent down. This is the nature of street fights and something most MMA fans don't understand.

I've said this many times but I'll say it again. Look at how Lee Murray cleaned Tito's clock with one or two punches. Of course in the cage Tito Ortiz would beat Lee savagely where he has time to set a game plan but in the streets there is no time for such things and fights can spout from anywhere in seconds. Now imagine what a fucking boxer would do to Lee Murray. In these cases boxing is king.
7/20/13 2:53 PM
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Gomrad
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Leigh -
tenchu - Multidimensional-fighter who can fight in all ranges beats one-dimesnional fighter.

It's amazing how in denial boxing fans are.

All these arguments about how fast a boxer is, or a boxer will just knock out a guy before he gets taken down, were the same arguments made when the UFC started and yet grapplers consistently beat boxers and strikers.

People realize this and find it appealing. It probably partly explains why MMA is more popular than boxing now among the younger demographic (at least confirmed in the US).
I don't think anyone is arguing that a boxer can beat a professional MMA fighter at MMA most of the time. They are arguing that high school kids and bjj blue belts with no cross training cannot beat Floyd Mayweather.

Most people agree that a collegiate wrestler is a helluva athlete and would probably take pbf down. Phone Post
This guy gets it^^

In a street fight some upper weight savage high school wrestlers could beat a professional boxer, sure I agree and fully support and understand what grappling brings to the table.

When I read that a blue belt say they would beat a world champion boxer in a street fight or that a 135 female mma fighter would kick FWJ's ass it seems like the delusion is strong and needs to be given a reality check...

Not trying to name drop here but to further my perspective.... I have wrestled live against 2000 Olympic gold medalist Brandon Slay (76kg) in training. I hung with 2002 184lb NCAA finalists Josh Lambrecht in an open division freestyle match losing 5-3 on a late 3 point fireman's on the edge (giving up exposure but not control). Over the passed 12 years I have rolled and sparred with a lot of mid level pro mma fighters, brown belts and some black belts.
I have sparred in a ring with pro boxers. I am friends with the guy that was dubbed George Zimmermans MMA coach during the trial (testified that GZ was a 0.5 out of 10) and I have even entered some competitive eating contests... Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 2:54 PM
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Gomrad
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I think that 1-10 scale as far as a persons talent / skill level / ability / overall proficiency in an area is probably a good way to approach this....

FMJ / world champion boxer: 10 out of 10

UFC World Champion: 10 out of 10

Olympic / World Champion wrestler: 10 out of 10

NCAA Champion wrestler: 8 out of 10

UFC mid tier fighter: 6-8 out of 10

NCAA D-1 AA (top 8 in nation): 6-7 out of 10

High School aged national champion: 5 out of 10

High School state champion: 4-5 out of 10
Average HS wrestler: 2-3 out of 10
Travon Martin: 1-3 out of 10 (guesstimate)
George Zimmerman: 0.5 out of 10

hipsters that pajama wrestle 2-3 times (total of 30-45 min live) a week at their $200 strip mall mcdojo which makes them think their blue belt = Clark kent stepping out of a phone booth: 0.25 out of 10 Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 2:56 PM
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Gomrad
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I also bounced during and after college and can tell you that in a street fight it is not the style one might train that determines the victor, it is the man and lengths he is willing to go to...

"Would you dig you thumb into that cut and open it up a little more? Of course you would"

-Mark Kerr Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 3:17 PM
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SKARHEAD
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Edited: 07/20/13 3:19 PM
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Joe is generalizing too much...I knew a state champ wrestler like 10 yrs ago...grappled with him and he was a beast on thr mat despite not knowing subs....well after that he got punked and KTFO at a party by a regular dude with no training....the following week the state champ wrestler showed up at my boxing gym wanting to learn how to box.
7/20/13 3:36 PM
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tenchu
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MarcVanBas - I think people need to remember that even ufc 1 was still a 1 v 1 sporting contest and not a street fight, ask Falcao and his friend what can still happen to you in a street fight even with your bjj black belt and years of mma training.

Shit can get scary real quick and your blue belt might not come in as handy as you thought.

And what would prepare you more for a real street fight? A practise that approximates a streetfight the most? Or a sport that highly restricts you to ONE tool and range?

MMA all day.
7/20/13 3:41 PM
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tenchu
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Leigh - 
tenchu - Multidimensional-fighter who can fight in all ranges beats one-dimesnional fighter.

It's amazing how in denial boxing fans are.

All these arguments about how fast a boxer is, or a boxer will just knock out a guy before he gets taken down, were the same arguments made when the UFC started and yet grapplers consistently beat boxers and strikers.

People realize this and find it appealing. It probably partly explains why MMA is more popular than boxing now among the younger demographic (at least confirmed in the US).
I don't think anyone is arguing that a boxer can beat a professional MMA fighter at MMA most of the time. They are arguing that high school kids and bjj blue belts with no cross training cannot beat Floyd Mayweather.

Most people agree that a collegiate wrestler is a helluva athlete and would probably take pbf down. Phone Post

Fair point. I agree and wrestlers are awesome athletes!
7/20/13 3:46 PM
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Gomrad
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Posts: 578
What level MMA are you talking about?
Pro / high level ammy that spars often and has been through the fire: yes

Recreational noobs that hit an mma instructional class once or twice a week, no they aren't beating up any professional boxer let alone a world champion like FMJ

I have seen guys at many different MMA gyms that "trane UFC" and they could not fight there way out of a wet paper bag. Just because a person attends mma classes, buys some sweet tap out shirts and tranes some UFC does not make them a fighter...

When shit gets real it is more about the individual then a "style" he might train in.. Phone Post 3.0

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