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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan: Mayweather gets killed by average wrestler


7/20/13 3:17 PM
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SKARHEAD
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Edited: 07/20/13 3:19 PM
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Joe is generalizing too much...I knew a state champ wrestler like 10 yrs ago...grappled with him and he was a beast on thr mat despite not knowing subs....well after that he got punked and KTFO at a party by a regular dude with no training....the following week the state champ wrestler showed up at my boxing gym wanting to learn how to box.
7/20/13 3:36 PM
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tenchu
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MarcVanBas - I think people need to remember that even ufc 1 was still a 1 v 1 sporting contest and not a street fight, ask Falcao and his friend what can still happen to you in a street fight even with your bjj black belt and years of mma training.

Shit can get scary real quick and your blue belt might not come in as handy as you thought.

And what would prepare you more for a real street fight? A practise that approximates a streetfight the most? Or a sport that highly restricts you to ONE tool and range?

MMA all day.
7/20/13 3:41 PM
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tenchu
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Leigh - 
tenchu - Multidimensional-fighter who can fight in all ranges beats one-dimesnional fighter.

It's amazing how in denial boxing fans are.

All these arguments about how fast a boxer is, or a boxer will just knock out a guy before he gets taken down, were the same arguments made when the UFC started and yet grapplers consistently beat boxers and strikers.

People realize this and find it appealing. It probably partly explains why MMA is more popular than boxing now among the younger demographic (at least confirmed in the US).
I don't think anyone is arguing that a boxer can beat a professional MMA fighter at MMA most of the time. They are arguing that high school kids and bjj blue belts with no cross training cannot beat Floyd Mayweather.

Most people agree that a collegiate wrestler is a helluva athlete and would probably take pbf down. Phone Post

Fair point. I agree and wrestlers are awesome athletes!
7/20/13 3:46 PM
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Gomrad
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What level MMA are you talking about?
Pro / high level ammy that spars often and has been through the fire: yes

Recreational noobs that hit an mma instructional class once or twice a week, no they aren't beating up any professional boxer let alone a world champion like FMJ

I have seen guys at many different MMA gyms that "trane UFC" and they could not fight there way out of a wet paper bag. Just because a person attends mma classes, buys some sweet tap out shirts and tranes some UFC does not make them a fighter...

When shit gets real it is more about the individual then a "style" he might train in.. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 3:47 PM
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Gomrad
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(See my 1-10 ranking system above) Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 3:53 PM
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Gomrad
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I would guess that most people that have recreational "Trane UFC" a couple of nights a week for a year or two would be between a 1-4 out of 10 depending on their individual athletic background...

Some people don't want to accept it but if you gave me a D-1 linebacker who has trained his entire life to break guys backs and gave him a few months of mma classes he would dominate most "average joe" non athletes that have "traned UFC" and or BJJ for a few years... This fact appears to be hard to accept for some.

News Flash: Not all men are created equal Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 4:37 PM
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Captain Kook
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I think some people seriously underestimate Floyd's ability to punch while moving. The average person would get their brain scrambled by his jab.
7/20/13 4:53 PM
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Vikingknee
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Also who gets off first counts a lot in a street fight. If a 152 good wrestler dude starts a fight with pbf by bear hugging him and getting a trip or a leg he is going to maintain control. If pbf starts the fight by throwing bombs the wrestler is gonna be overwhelmed and get ko'ed Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 6:35 PM
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BshMstr
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ya know, i remember Mo Smith being mounted by Mark Coleman, who was dropping bombs. but he kept missing, because Mo was slipping them on his back, mounted. and Mo destroyed Coleman when he got back to his feet...

granted, Mo was a high level kickboxer (comparable to PBF in his sport?), but Coleman was an NCAA champ and Olympic wrestler...

7/20/13 6:38 PM
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BshMstr
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and like i said before, Couture-Toney was a pretty bad comparison, as Couture had actually boxed and fought in MMA for a while before their fight (nearly 15 years), whereas Toney had not, and was pretty out of shape.

7/20/13 6:40 PM
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HexRei
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BshMstr - and like i said before, Couture-Toney was a pretty bad comparison, as Couture had actually boxed and fought in MMA for a while before their fight (nearly 15 years), whereas Toney had not, and was pretty out of shape.


Couture didn't win with his boxing. He won with wrestling. I'll agree with the out of shape part.
7/20/13 6:44 PM
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BshMstr
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thegoldenboy - You people simply cannot understand how fast and hard boxers punch, let alone fucking Floyd Mayweather. Honest to god, he would knock you out before you could even blink. Some of you have said that if Floyd misses the punch you could get him down, what you don't realise is that he would NEVER miss a punch.

The only people who could beat Floyd in a street fight are those who are professional MMA fighters and KNOW before hand they are fighting a boxer, even then there is a legitimate chance they get clipped and fall like a sack of shit. Of course I'm not talking about the cage here. Phone Post 3.0

i suspect that most of these people have never actually sparred before, or not with someone who does it as part of their job...
7/20/13 6:44 PM
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HexRei
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BshMstr - ya know, i remember Mo Smith being mounted by Mark Coleman, who was dropping bombs. but he kept missing, because Mo was slipping them on his back, mounted. and Mo destroyed Coleman when he got back to his feet...

granted, Mo was a high level kickboxer (comparable to PBF in his sport?), but Coleman was an NCAA champ and Olympic wrestler...


Blame Coleman's gas tank for that. A comparable wrestler with more gas could have kept that whole match on the ground.

Mo had also been training for and competing in grappling sports professionally for several years at that time. he didn't just do three months of takedown defense and then sign a fight with mark Coleman.
7/20/13 9:20 PM
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BshMstr
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HexRei - 
BshMstr - ya know, i remember Mo Smith being mounted by Mark Coleman, who was dropping bombs. but he kept missing, because Mo was slipping them on his back, mounted. and Mo destroyed Coleman when he got back to his feet...

granted, Mo was a high level kickboxer (comparable to PBF in his sport?), but Coleman was an NCAA champ and Olympic wrestler...


Blame Coleman's gas tank for that. A comparable wrestler with more gas could have kept that whole match on the ground.

Mo had also been training for and competing in grappling sports professionally for several years at that time. he didn't just do three months of takedown defense and then sign a fight with mark Coleman.

and Mark Coleman had been doing MMA for more than a few months as well...so the point is moot.

if Coleman is an unfair wrestler to bring up, what Olympic wrestler do you want me to compare him to?
7/20/13 10:07 PM
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Gomrad
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BshMstr -
HexRei - 
BshMstr - ya know, i remember Mo Smith being mounted by Mark Coleman, who was dropping bombs. but he kept missing, because Mo was slipping them on his back, mounted. and Mo destroyed Coleman when he got back to his feet...

granted, Mo was a high level kickboxer (comparable to PBF in his sport?), but Coleman was an NCAA champ and Olympic wrestler...


Blame Coleman's gas tank for that. A comparable wrestler with more gas could have kept that whole match on the ground.

Mo had also been training for and competing in grappling sports professionally for several years at that time. he didn't just do three months of takedown defense and then sign a fight with mark Coleman.

and Mark Coleman had been doing MMA for more than a few months as well...so the point is moot.

if Coleman is an unfair wrestler to bring up, what Olympic wrestler do you want me to compare him to?
I think this guy ^^^^ is on to something..

You could be dominant in wrestling and just not be very good at fighting

Karam Gaber is regarded as Egypt's greatest Olympic wrestler of modern era (1896 - hope to God beyond 2016)

He absolutely dominated everyone at the 2004 Olympics (winning 11-0 in semi finals and 12-1 in championship finals)

http://youtu.be/5bQa1mqRXiU

http://youtu.be/ZMgPSsbDpa4


just a few months removed from the Athens Games he stepped into the ring with Kazuyuki "Ironhead" Fujita....
It did not end well for Gaber:

http://youtu.be/59YNXojXe_4


Then you can take a man like Matt Hughes (highest finish in college was 5th in the nation) and he becomes one of the greatest fighters alive during his era..


You never know.... Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 10:11 PM
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The Brool Story Company
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"killed" = dry humped

7/20/13 10:15 PM
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Gomrad
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One might deduce that Karam didn't have enough "fight" training, but the timing of that fight against Fujita (4 months after Olympics) is just about as much of a "pure wrestler" match up as you could get.


So here was the best wrestler on the planet trying unsuccessfully to clinch and toss Fujita... It wasn't as easy as you might think, BECAUSE HE HAD TO CONTEND WITH SOMEONE THROWING BUNGALOWS AT HIS HEAD.

Now let me hear more about some blue belt hipster pajama wrestlers beating FWJ's ass after they drag him to the ground Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 10:20 PM
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Gomrad
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Again I am a "wrestling / grappling guy", but some of delusional talk on these two threads is embarrassing...

Don't speak for / try to represent the great sport of wrestling by sounding like the TMA weeny instructors (baddest man on the block) did pre-UFC 1...

It is not the style that wins in a fight it is the man fighting (refer back to the 0.5 - 10 rating scale posted earlier)... Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 10:37 PM
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BshMstr
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Gomrad - Again I am a "wrestling / grappling guy", but some of delusional talk on these two threads is embarrassing...

Don't speak for / try to represent the great sport of wrestling by sounding like the TMA weeny instructors (baddest man on the block) did pre-UFC 1...

It is not the style that wins in a fight it is the man fighting (refer back to the 0.5 - 10 rating scale posted earlier)... Phone Post 3.0

i agree 100%...

PBF isn't gonna get beat by an average collegiate wrestler, anymore than Cael Sanderson is gonna get beat by an average GG competitor...
7/20/13 11:47 PM
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George Hill
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PFB in the street lasted what was it, 20 seconds with 50 Cent. Is he beating an average college wrestler.

There are boxers who can street fight and there are boxers who can't, just like there are wrestlers who can street fight and wrestlers who can't.

Success in a sport doesn't mean you can fight in the street or in another sport.

There are mediocre wrestlers who are probably great street fighters and mediocre boxers who are as well.

Just because Floyd possesses great technical ring skill doesn't mean he can or can't fight in the street, particularly against a bigger guy.

I guarantee there are tough aggressive high school wrestlers who could put him on his back and keep him there. And there are technical college wrestlers who would freeze and not do so before being hit.

Every situation is different. Every person who blanket statement says anything absolute is just whistling dixie and has no idea what they are talking about.
7/20/13 11:49 PM
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George Hill
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On Smith vs. Coleman, Smith started fighting against wrestlers in 1989. Coleman started in MMA in 1996. They fought in 1997. Smith took advantage of Coleman's gas tank and inexperience. Reality is Coleman had him on his back in seconds. If Smith hadn't trained for years at the Lions Den, he'd have been done at that point.

In 1993 and 1994 Smith was offered to be in UFC and turned it down, telling the management at the time that he didn't have the skills to beat a wrestler. Three years of training later, he thought he did.
7/20/13 11:51 PM
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SKARHEAD
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BshMstr - 
thegoldenboy - You people simply cannot understand how fast and hard boxers punch, let alone fucking Floyd Mayweather. Honest to god, he would knock you out before you could even blink. Some of you have said that if Floyd misses the punch you could get him down, what you don't realise is that he would NEVER miss a punch.

The only people who could beat Floyd in a street fight are those who are professional MMA fighters and KNOW before hand they are fighting a boxer, even then there is a legitimate chance they get clipped and fall like a sack of shit. Of course I'm not talking about the cage here. Phone Post 3.0

i suspect that most of these people have never actually sparred before, or not with someone who does it as part of their job...

Most of these guys have never done trained boxing EVER....certainly never sparred or fought a decent ammy boxer, much less a pro.


They're most likely pho-hawked teenagers who think they know some secret because they trane UFc at some shitty MMA gym.
7/20/13 11:52 PM
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HexRei
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BshMstr - 
HexRei - 
BshMstr - ya know, i remember Mo Smith being mounted by Mark Coleman, who was dropping bombs. but he kept missing, because Mo was slipping them on his back, mounted. and Mo destroyed Coleman when he got back to his feet...

granted, Mo was a high level kickboxer (comparable to PBF in his sport?), but Coleman was an NCAA champ and Olympic wrestler...


Blame Coleman's gas tank for that. A comparable wrestler with more gas could have kept that whole match on the ground.

Mo had also been training for and competing in grappling sports professionally for several years at that time. he didn't just do three months of takedown defense and then sign a fight with mark Coleman.

and Mark Coleman had been doing MMA for more than a few months as well...so the point is moot.

if Coleman is an unfair wrestler to bring up, what Olympic wrestler do you want me to compare him to?

Perhaps I didn't make my first point clear enough. The wrestler I'd recommend is the one who isn't carrying massive amounts of roid muscle without the cardio to support it. did you see his fight with petey? he fell into the guy's leg, he was so exhausted.

he was strong, he was skilled, but at that time in his life he had a terrible gas tank.
7/20/13 11:53 PM
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SKARHEAD
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George Hill - PFB in the street lasted what was it, 20 seconds with 50 Cent. Is he beating an average college wrestler.

There are boxers who can street fight and there are boxers who can't, just like there are wrestlers who can street fight and wrestlers who can't.

Success in a sport doesn't mean you can fight in the street or in another sport.

There are mediocre wrestlers who are probably great street fighters and mediocre boxers who are as well.

Just because Floyd possesses great technical ring skill doesn't mean he can or can't fight in the street, particularly against a bigger guy.

I guarantee there are tough aggressive high school wrestlers who could put him on his back and keep him there. And there are technical college wrestlers who would freeze and not do so before being hit.

Every situation is different. Every person who blanket statement says anything absolute is just whistling dixie and has no idea what they are talking about.

LOL @ believing the BS 50Cent story....that came out of 50 Cents mouth
7/20/13 11:57 PM
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SKARHEAD
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Periodik - 
Gomrad - 
thegoldenboy -
SquishyCheeks - 
Gomrad - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - 
SquishyCheeks -
supremexb - To the guy that thinks he would beat Floyd in a street fight, you would wake up in the hospital not even knowing what happened? yes Floyd would lose an mms fight to pro mms fighters but he's not losing in the street to blue belts that's stupid. Phone Post 3.0

That doesn't make sense. A street fight has less rules than an MMA match. Only the rules save a boxer from a rounded MMA fighter. That's just an undeniable fact.

The only difference it being a street fight would make, is that the MMA fighter would 12-6 elbows and head-but and soccer kick and knee the head when they're down. etc.
So Floyd is losing street fights to anyone that's done a year of bjj in some strip mall? Give me a fucking break. Street fights 9 times out if ten start with fists. Floyd throws one punch and it's over the average schmo never sees it coming. Phone Post 3.0

Notice how you're forced to reach toward the extreme? Sure, Floyd would have a great chance against somebody with almost no training.

A solid highschool wrestler beats Floyd 9/10 times. JJ just makes it easier.

Or, does Floyd have some training that I'm not considering? Did Floyd wrestle or anything? I honestly don't know.
"Solid HS wrestler beats World Champion Prize Fighter 9 out 10 times in a fight"

I pray you are trolling Phone Post 3.0

I guess you think I meant a strong HS wrestler beats him in a boxing match? That's not what I meant, no.

You overestimate little Floyd's ability to box off his back with his head busted open.

You also simply don't understand that the majority of street fights materialise very quickly. In these situations the fighter will almost always rely on the quickest form of attack to end the fight which is PUNCHES. That is why the wrestler would get knocked out, he wouldn't even realise he's in a fight until after he got smashed to pieces. I can't stress enough how you have NO IDEA how fast elite boxers punch, let alone the FUCKING P4P BEST BOXER ON THE PLANET. He would throw 10 punches straight to the jaw before you even bat an eye.
I am starting to think squishy cheeks is a troll

I have coached high school wrestling and taught for the past 16 years,
coaching 40 state placers, 16 state finalists, And 9 State champions. 15 of them have become All-Americans With three being national champions. A kid on my team just won Junior national championship in Fargo this week...

I started wrestling in 1988, Started grappling in 1995.... I'm actually on my way in now to teach wrestling class at an MMA gym...

This is my point of reference...

I'm not saying some savage high school kids would've win in a real fight against some professional boxers

But to say the high school kids would beat up Mayweather Is just plain stupid... Almost as bad as saying 135lb female fighters would beat FWJ in a street fight

You are either a troll Or a fool Phone Post 3.0

With that much experience I can't fathom how you could FMJ over someone with pretty good grappling skills.

In the early days of the UFC we saw European kickboxing champions and Karate black belts get dropped on their heads and pounded out or get pulled into guard and choked out.

Boxing is a great self defense if your opponent is planning on standing with you. But you're telling me that if a grappler wants to take a guy to the ground who has ZERO takedown defense, he can't just because that guy is arguably the P4P best boxer today, then you sir are the one trolling.

No, you're an idiot....For the wrestler to even get it to the ground he has to cross the distance...and PBF is a master of distance, footwork, and will be 100 times faster than any average wrestler...wrestler most likely gets his head hit 3-10 times as PBF keeps the distance and then ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz


DUH !

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