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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan: Mayweather gets killed by average wrestler


7/18/13 1:44 PM
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Leigh
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My 2 cents and assuming no cross training:

Average BJJ blue belt gets put into a coma. Average BJJ club has poor/no wrestling.

Club level judo black belt gets beaten up. Most have no concept of morote gari (double leg) and with no GI to grab against the best boxer on the planet, they get KTFO.

High school wrestler of the same weight probably loses a tough fight. Gets PBF down 8/10 but struggles to finish. Rabbit punches will do nothing and he'll probably find a way back up. The guy is a world champion athlete with dynamite hands.

Competitive judo black belt has decent chance. Could probably get him to the floor and hold him there, probably gronk on hadaka jime (RNC).

College wrestler fucks him up. Brutalises him with takedown and sets about him with novice g'n'p.

^Unless buddy boy has some form of wrestling with his BJJ blue, he would die. Floyd would dance around him like Fred Astaire, punching him at will while BJJ guy lumbers around like Frankenstein's Monster. And it would only take one.

No offense to anyone but also don't disrespect a guy who is the best on the planet at a very popular fighting art. Phone Post
7/18/13 1:47 PM
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Jumbo Reverse Shrimp
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Look guys I also found a not-so-new video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5eL0SJh6a4

Oh, here's another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFbpa9c8gg

7/18/13 1:48 PM
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Hey Beer Man
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Tilla - 
MTH - 

Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 

I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.

I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.


Now this is why I love the UG. Funny thing about BJJ is that you get worse the better you get. I would have agreed with this guy as a blue belt. However, as a 170lb purple belt with a strong wrestling base and I know that I'd be lucky as hell to get the fight to the ground against the man with the best hands in the world. Then I would be a lottery winner lucky that he didn't KO me from the bottom. World class does not equal the best guy in your gym or even your state.

Be easy on this guy because you don't know what you don't know and this guy clearly doesn't know.
7/18/13 1:50 PM
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kungfugrip
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but Mayweather gets paid a million times more than the average college wrestler.
7/18/13 1:50 PM
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6ULDV8
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Yeah, but they were both right.

7/18/13 1:50 PM
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GSPsShadyHandWraps
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A street fight has less to do with the style you train and more to do with how ruthless you are.

Tito was a junior college champion and a D1 wrestler aswell as being a world champion in MMA, didnt stop him from getting lit up by Lee Murray, Don Frye fought MMA at an elite level, didnt stop an old washed up boxer KOing him when they squared off, Hayato Sakurai got KOd by a construction worker, Cabbage Corriera got KOd by a kid that bashed a rock in his face outside his hotelroom in London

Joes idea of MMA being a "real" fight is naive, Falcao was involved in a real fight recently, he would tool 100% of the people posting here including the bad ass bluebelts, yet a 2X4 sent him on his way


Now if Rogans claim is that a wrestler would beat Floyd in an MMA bout, no shit, a tennis player would beat Floyd in a tennis match too

7/18/13 1:51 PM
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BshMstr
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Leigh -  My 2 cents and assuming no cross training:

Average BJJ blue belt gets put into a coma. Average BJJ club has poor/no wrestling.

Club level judo black belt gets beaten up. Most have no concept of morote gari (double leg) and with no GI to grab against the best boxer on the planet, they get KTFO.

High school wrestler of the same weight probably loses a tough fight. Gets PBF down 8/10 but struggles to finish. Rabbit punches will do nothing and he'll probably find a way back up. The guy is a world champion athlete with dynamite hands.

Competitive judo black belt has decent chance. Could probably get him to the floor and hold him there, probably gronk on hadaka jime (RNC).

College wrestler fucks him up. Brutalises him with takedown and sets about him with novice g'n'p.

^Unless buddy boy has some form of wrestling with his BJJ blue, he would die. Floyd would dance around him like Fred Astaire, punching him at will while BJJ guy lumbers around like Frankenstein's Monster. And it would only take one.

No offense to anyone but also don't disrespect a guy who is the best on the planet at a very popular fighting art. Phone Post

i don't even think it would be this close...

Rogan's a sharp guy and student of all sorts of fighting styles, so i'm a little surprised by his comments.

for some reason people act like Floyd doesn't know how to control range... trying to take him down without using striking to set it up prolly results in 30 punches to the head and a short night. now if it was Cael Sanderson, then it might be a different story. these guys are highly specialized, but they're still world class athletes.

with that being said, i don't think that he would fare well against a top level MMA guy in a NHB fight, but against another single sport athlete, you've gotta respect the fact that he is the best in the world.

7/18/13 1:54 PM
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PrettyBoy
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Didn't Ray Mercer already prove a overweight 50 year old boxer can KTFO of a former 2 time UFC Champion in less than 10 seconds? A former Champion that was one fight removed from fighting and validating the greatest MMA fighter to ever live in Fedor Emelianko?

Seriously Rogan's comments are baseless given that fighting is an individual sport. You can't make blanket statements like that. As I mentioned above it has already been proven that he is wrong in the above matchup. You can't even make the statement that an active former 2 time UFC Champion will always beat a boxer. Not even a retired old fat one.

Joe is incredibly dismissive of boxing and has made countless disparaging remarks about the sport throughout the yeas. It's just obvious he has never trained as a boxer or spent any long period of time in a boxing gym. His outlook would be completely different if he had. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 1:55 PM
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ConditJustGSPeedHisPants
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The Ultimate Male Vs. The Ultimate Meatball? Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 1:55 PM
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GaryColeman
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I'm a fan of MMA, but have never trained outside of a boxing gym. We have guys come in that train at mma gyms and spar with some of the boxers. In my experiences the boxers tend to be a lot quicker and can usually catch the mma guys before they can catch the boxers. I'm not saying Joe is wrong, it's simply an observation so don't lose your shit over this comment. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 1:59 PM
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Ramy Daoud
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Leigh - My 2 cents and assuming no cross training:

Average BJJ blue belt gets put into a coma. Average BJJ club has poor/no wrestling.

Club level judo black belt gets beaten up. Most have no concept of morote gari (double leg) and with no GI to grab against the best boxer on the planet, they get KTFO.

High school wrestler of the same weight probably loses a tough fight. Gets PBF down 8/10 but struggles to finish. Rabbit punches will do nothing and he'll probably find a way back up. The guy is a world champion athlete with dynamite hands.

Competitive judo black belt has decent chance. Could probably get him to the floor and hold him there, probably gronk on hadaka jime (RNC).

College wrestler fucks him up. Brutalises him with takedown and sets about him with novice g'n'p.

^Unless buddy boy has some form of wrestling with his BJJ blue, he would die. Floyd would dance around him like Fred Astaire, punching him at will while BJJ guy lumbers around like Frankenstein's Monster. And it would only take one.

No offense to anyone but also don't disrespect a guy who is the best on the planet at a very popular fighting art. Phone Post
I was trying to say something like this. Leigh said it perfectly. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 2:03 PM
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Ringworm74
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If mma now is the pinnacle of fighting one must agree that early mma would be held even higher with knees/kicks to a grounded opponent. Headbutts. Tournament style. Phone Post
7/18/13 2:05 PM
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phillymmafan
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Floyd would kill op 10 out of 10 times Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 2:06 PM
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HE H4TE ME
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All I know is the wrestler better have a pretty quick shot because if he doesn't Floyd is gonna hit him with a 6 piece, 2 biscuits and 2 sides. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 2:06 PM
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Arlovskis Chin
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So much foolishness in this thread. I'm a blue belt aswell. 6ft4 230lbs. I have a SIGNIFICANT height and reach advantage and have also trained mma for 3 years. I would get MURDERED by floyd.

I don't see any other outcome, have you seen the guys movement? Marquez hit him clean once in 12 fucking rounds. What chance would me who is SO sluggish compared to marquez, going to do to him?

"Oh but I could hit a double leg"

Bullshit. If I trade to set it up I get ktfo. If I don't trade and just shoot I guarantee he would clean my clock before I hit it. He fights 147lbers do you not think he's going to see your shoot from out of range from a mile away?

Blue belts don't mean shit. Wrestlers would still struggle against his speed, distance and timing and the fact of lack of headmovement on a shoot. It's not when you start getting up the divisions in collegiate wrestling I believe they hold the advantage and that's VERY few people in the US compared to the 370Million.

I think mayweather s doing pretty well tbh. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 2:08 PM
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So u my gf now?
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phillymmafan - Floyd would kill op 10 out of 10 times Phone Post 3.0
This. Also, your average fucking bjj blue belt with no wrestling will not beat Floyd. He'd put you to sleep before you'd even shoot for a takedown. Phone Post
7/18/13 2:09 PM
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MadsTimm
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Its a pointless statement, and when was the last time someone was KO'd from wrestling? while they shoot floyd would have a good chance at catching them with a hook or uppercut so dont see why hes acting like wrestling is the king of fighting.. Im not saying he would catch them btw but hes talking like he got no chance. its punches what knocks someone out.. not wrestling (i know wrestling is good for control etc buh jus think this makes a bit of a joke what joe's trying to say Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 2:15 PM
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8flat
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boxingman - man this is retarded

how many fcuking real street fights has rogan been in or even seen

street fights are not mma,
they are quick and dirty

and going to the ground is the dumbest idea there is
if your a real fight,

ie. fights are rarely 1-1
which means grappling gets u fucked up

and there is stuff like biting and low blows etc
not to mention weapons

as someone who grew up in russia and later
lived in a black area when i moved
and worked as a bouncer

trust boxers always do great in street fights
and most of their fights last as long as it takes to throw a few punches



ps i have boxed for 10 years and am a bjj blue belt,also wreslted a bit too
but real life teaches you
motherfucker you gotta hit

you take someone down???
his bro,kicks your fucking head in
seen this quite times
working at clubs


but i know little rich boys who 300 dollars a mouth to their bjj gyms, think mma is real fighting
because they never been in a fight
and when they get into a fight
they will call the cops
end of story



Very good point, a friend of mine took a guy down in a barfight and got stabbed by his buddy.
7/18/13 2:17 PM
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PrettyBoy
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sniper1026 - Those that box and disagree...I challenge you to walk into an MMA gym, or hell a BJJ school & challenge your equivalent in experience & weight to a fight.

Those that have not trained in anything whatsoever & are just mouthing off, your comments hold NO VALUE!
I have trained as a boxer most of my life... I currently train BJJ. I am highly convinced that I would have beat the shit out of virtually every blue belt in all the schools I have trained at on day 1 in a real fight. After training with them for a while I'm convinced I would now.

Most BJJ practitioners would get washed out of a real boxing gym in a week. They wouldn't have the muster to get jacked in the face at full power with punches regularly. My athleticism which is no where on par with an athlete like Floyd would have got me back to my feet, enable me to win the scrambles and let me be on top for a period long enough to win the fight.

My biggest issue in BJJ was not establishing top control or a strong base but learning submissions to finish, with punches to the face allowed I don't have that problem. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 2:18 PM
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supremexb
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Leigh - My 2 cents and assuming no cross training:

Average BJJ blue belt gets put into a coma. Average BJJ club has poor/no wrestling.

Club level judo black belt gets beaten up. Most have no concept of morote gari (double leg) and with no GI to grab against the best boxer on the planet, they get KTFO.

High school wrestler of the same weight probably loses a tough fight. Gets PBF down 8/10 but struggles to finish. Rabbit punches will do nothing and he'll probably find a way back up. The guy is a world champion athlete with dynamite hands.

Competitive judo black belt has decent chance. Could probably get him to the floor and hold him there, probably gronk on hadaka jime (RNC).

College wrestler fucks him up. Brutalises him with takedown and sets about him with novice g'n'p.

^Unless buddy boy has some form of wrestling with his BJJ blue, he would die. Floyd would dance around him like Fred Astaire, punching him at will while BJJ guy lumbers around like Frankenstein's Monster. And it would only take one.

No offense to anyone but also don't disrespect a guy who is the best on the planet at a very popular fighting art. Phone Post
Agreed Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 2:33 PM
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Chappie
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I am a fan of Joe's, but he does seem to enjoy pissing on boxing every chance he gets. He perspective on boxing seems to be more than a bit selective considering that his background is TKD. As someone who grew up wrestling and boxing and who has been around combat sports for 25 plus years, I am going to safely say that the average open class amatuer boxer would walk through 99% of the TKD practitioners in the US. Phone Post
7/18/13 2:38 PM
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Jumbo Reverse Shrimp
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Ramy Daoud - A judoka or wrestler (if they are fast and skilled) could beat him but a bjj guy who doesn't train takedowns and who spars from the knees every night wouldn't.

Im not saying Jacare or Marcelo wouldn't beat Floyd, I'm saying your average 2-3 x a week blue belt who trains takedowns once every 3 weeks is not gonna make it happen. Phone Post 3.0

Werd. Floyd vs. butt scooters will look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1Js8hu3e3U
7/18/13 2:39 PM
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Scott Rotem
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RCP_TT4LIFE -  Try doing that to Mike Alvarado. Phone Post

Does that dude still do coke and beat his wife?
7/18/13 2:40 PM
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DRevan
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Chappie -  I am a fan of Joe's, but he does seem to enjoy pissing on boxing every chance he gets. He perspective on boxing seems to be more than a bit selective considering that his background is TKD. As someone who grew up wrestling and boxing and who has been around combat sports for 25 plus years, I am going to safely say that the average open class amatuer boxer would walk through 99% of the TKD practitioners in the US. Phone Post

Joe has said the same thing.

He's mentioned that when he started taking boxing or muay thai classes, after having been a black belt in TKD for years...how it was a real shock/frustrating thing to find that his years of training "didn't work" PROVIDED he didn't add more tools to his arsenal...aka..LEARN boxing/muay thai...then all of a sudden the TKD stuff, kicks, movement and general dexterity...suddenly become assets again...when you shore up those parts of your "martial game" that allow other opponents to exploit your weakest areas.



7/18/13 2:58 PM
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Marketing guy
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Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki? James Toney vs. Randy Couture? A wrestler would beat Floyd probably 8 out of 10 times. No disrespect to Floyd but history has shown that a boxer will lose to a grappler soundly. If floyd trained to stuff takedowns for a couple years then maybe but straight boxing? He would have to have PERFECT timing accuracy and technique to win that fight The wrestler has to be much less perfect to secure a takedown. It wouldn't even be fair. I remember thinking Randy's takedown looked a bit sloppy against Toney but it didn't matter one bit. If floyd is off by a couple inches he loses the fight badly. If his timing is a second off he loses badly, if the guy absorbs the shot for whatever reason he gets smoked. I believe he has the ability to catch the guy 1-2 out of 10 times but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he went 0 for 10. He is brilliant at what he does but boxing has adjusted for years to be as effective as possible under "boxing rules" NOT "fighting rules."

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