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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan: Mayweather gets killed by average wrestler


7/18/13 2:58 PM
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Marketing guy
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Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki? James Toney vs. Randy Couture? A wrestler would beat Floyd probably 8 out of 10 times. No disrespect to Floyd but history has shown that a boxer will lose to a grappler soundly. If floyd trained to stuff takedowns for a couple years then maybe but straight boxing? He would have to have PERFECT timing accuracy and technique to win that fight The wrestler has to be much less perfect to secure a takedown. It wouldn't even be fair. I remember thinking Randy's takedown looked a bit sloppy against Toney but it didn't matter one bit. If floyd is off by a couple inches he loses the fight badly. If his timing is a second off he loses badly, if the guy absorbs the shot for whatever reason he gets smoked. I believe he has the ability to catch the guy 1-2 out of 10 times but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he went 0 for 10. He is brilliant at what he does but boxing has adjusted for years to be as effective as possible under "boxing rules" NOT "fighting rules."
7/18/13 3:10 PM
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I LOVE GSP
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Fr35h Prync3 - I agree 100% with Joe Phone Post 3.0
This time. Phone Post
7/18/13 3:18 PM
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MIKE CIESNOLEVICZ
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There is nobody in MMA as good as Floyd Mayweather is in boxing or they would be making 90 million dollars a fight like Mayweather is projected to against Canelo. The highest paid athlete in the world is Floyd Mayweather. There isnt an MMA guy in the top 1,000 highest paid athletes.

True Floyd would get killed by the average wrestler but its a different sport. Im sure Jose Aldo would beat up Tiger Woods also.
7/18/13 3:30 PM
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Swayze Express
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MIKE CIESNOLEVICZ - There is nobody in MMA as good as Floyd Mayweather is in boxing or they would be making 90 million dollars a fight like Mayweather is projected to against Canelo. The highest paid athlete in the world is Floyd Mayweather. There isnt an MMA guy in the top 1,000 highest paid athletes.

True Floyd would get killed by the average wrestler but its a different sport. Im sure Jose Aldo would beat up Tiger Woods also.

I respect your opinion no matter how dumb your analogy was.
7/18/13 3:37 PM
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neil11
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I disagree with Joe.
I clearly remember seeing FMJ smack the shit out of the Big Show! Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 3:38 PM
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Flexo
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supremexb - I'm pretty sure kllitscko can figure out a way to beat Dodson. Phone Post 3.0
I could see Dodson avoiding everything and climbing him like a tree lol. Climb on up and go for a choke if his arms fit around Klitchkos' neck. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 3:47 PM
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eljamaiquino
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boxingman - man this is retarded

how many fcuking real street fights has rogan been in or even seen

street fights are not mma,
they are quick and dirty

and going to the ground is the dumbest idea there is
if your a real fight,

ie. fights are rarely 1-1
which means grappling gets u fucked up

and there is stuff like biting and low blows etc
not to mention weapons

as someone who grew up in russia and later
lived in a black area when i moved
and worked as a bouncer

trust boxers always do great in street fights
and most of their fights last as long as it takes to throw a few punches



ps i have boxed for 10 years and am a bjj blue belt,also wreslted a bit too
but real life teaches you
motherfucker you gotta hit

you take someone down???
his bro,kicks your fucking head in
seen this quite times
working at clubs


but i know little rich boys who 300 dollars a mouth to their bjj gyms, think mma is real fighting
because they never been in a fight
and when they get into a fight
they will call the cops
end of story


Ive seen people get thrown on their head on the street. fight over. The last fight I had decades ago, I used one foot sweep that I drilled from judo, and the guy fell down and was done. If you know throws or sweeps, you dont have to go to the ground yourself.

back to floyd, he moves his head, but his hips stay under him. He cant avoid the clinch when guys are trying to straight box. a wrestler who knows how to get to the clinch will take him down with ease as long as they dont get one punch koed. Phone Post
7/18/13 4:03 PM
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Mexican Janitor
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4later Phone Post
7/18/13 4:06 PM
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ohmy23
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MTH - Jeebus . . .

Do we really care about whether it's a "blue belt" or a "purple belt"? It was a f'king example people.

Fine. Instead of saying "legit, aggressive blue belt with a significant weight advantage," let's say "legit, aggressive purple belt with a significant weight advantage." Does that make it more palatable?

It doesn't matter. The point is that Joe is right insofar as he's discussing real fights. A legit (but average) grappler is--more often than not--going to beat Floyd in a real fight. Whether the grappling in question is wrestling, BJJ, whatever.

Legit but average PURPLE belt (I say blue too, but whatever) level skills will generally win out over elite boxing skills, provided the boxer has no grappling ability and doesn't score a quick KO.

And I add the term "level skills" after identifying a belt to encompass other (non-belted) forms of grappling.

Bottom line: I'd bet money on every purple belt I know in a street fight with Floyd. Same with the longtime wrestlers. I'd et money on a lot of the blue belts I know too, but apparently that's more controversial. Phone Post 3.0
Tonight go into your gym, and have a teammate put on 16oz gloves and have him try to punch you while you use your blue belt skills to butt flop or shoot a td.

Report back tomorrow when you realize you'd be eating out of a tube for a month if you did that shit with someone even half as skilled with their hands as PBF. Not to mention things like suburb athleticism and head movement. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 4:08 PM
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ohmy23
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Superb* Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 4:15 PM
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Tehunamatata
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So whats changed since Royce Vs Art or Randy vs Toney ??

"But Floyds on another level in terms of speed and timing etc"

yeah against boxers - not people trying to double leg him

"street fights arent 1 on 1, u dont wanna be on the ground in a street fight"

its not "street fighter of the year" and boxing is 1vs1 hands only with 10oz gloves, MMA is closer to a 1 on 1 street fight. Regardless, how often does Floyd train against multiple people, knives, baseball bats etc??

The problem is with the wording, "Fighter of the year" a more accurate description would be "fight personality of the year" hence why boxing dominates cause its more popular and PBF is the #1 draw.

Either a lot of trolls or naivety in this thread.

Go back to your history books newbs...
7/18/13 4:18 PM
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Caught_clean
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Although I agree a lot of people have no idea what they are talking about and are really underestimating boxers here, I love how people are talking one Floyd is some monster power punching that will death touch anyone. That said the average blue belt has zero wrestling and gets smoked. Phone Post
7/18/13 4:20 PM
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adc559
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PatK - And the best striker in MMA would get tooled by a mid-card level boxer in boxing.

Apples and Oranges
But in a fight who would win? Not a boxing match or an mma fight. Just a fight. Phone Post
7/18/13 4:20 PM
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Tehunamatata
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also who was the last person PBF KOed that wasnt looking at the Ref, he has 1 chance to land hard and clean and I would question the "hard".

look at Randy vs Toney - not 1 punch connected on the feet and Randy pulls a very low single that I learnt in my first BJJ class.
7/18/13 4:30 PM
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Marketing guy
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Tehunamatata - So whats changed since Royce Vs Art or Randy vs Toney ??

"But Floyds on another level in terms of speed and timing etc"

yeah against boxers - not people trying to double leg him

"street fights arent 1 on 1, u dont wanna be on the ground in a street fight"

its not "street fighter of the year" and boxing is 1vs1 hands only with 10oz gloves, MMA is closer to a 1 on 1 street fight. Regardless, how often does Floyd train against multiple people, knives, baseball bats etc??

The problem is with the wording, "Fighter of the year" a more accurate description would be "fight personality of the year" hence why boxing dominates cause its more popular and PBF is the #1 draw.

Either a lot of trolls or naivety in this thread.

Go back to your history books newbs...

Street Fighter of the year?.. Kimbo Slice!
7/18/13 4:31 PM
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Gomrad
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Tilla -
MTH - 

Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 

I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.

I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.

^^ this ...
blue belt level takedowns probably won't be enough to drag world champion boxers down before your head gets blasted off

This reminds me of the guys that thought UFC 1 Royce beats Prime Tyson in street fight 10 times out of 10... Iron Mike's speed and power were enough to kill average built men like Gracie, his dive bomber double wasn't getting that hulk down... Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 4:31 PM
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GreySkull
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Reality is, if it is a street fight then anything goes. If you train you boxing or wrestling it helps - if you train both even better. But let's not forget, some people me included are competition trained. I don't know how I would react in the street, and my first reaction would be to run away.

But May against a college wrestler in the ring as is, I will go wrestler. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 4:37 PM
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Tilla
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PrettyBoy - 
sniper1026 - Those that box and disagree...I challenge you to walk into an MMA gym, or hell a BJJ school & challenge your equivalent in experience & weight to a fight.

Those that have not trained in anything whatsoever & are just mouthing off, your comments hold NO VALUE!
I have trained as a boxer most of my life... I currently train BJJ. I am highly convinced that I would have beat the shit out of virtually every blue belt in all the schools I have trained at on day 1 in a real fight. After training with them for a while I'm convinced I would now.

Most BJJ practitioners would get washed out of a real boxing gym in a week. They wouldn't have the muster to get jacked in the face at full power with punches regularly. My athleticism which is no where on par with an athlete like Floyd would have got me back to my feet, enable me to win the scrambles and let me be on top for a period long enough to win the fight.

My biggest issue in BJJ was not establishing top control or a strong base but learning submissions to finish, with punches to the face allowed I don't have that problem. Phone Post 3.0

See this guy? He GETS IT!

I Box AND do Judo, and you know what? We have some BJJ guys come into our Gym who won't even do Randori (sparring) because they say "Oh, I've got a competition in 4 weeks time" and then the one's that DO spar can't get a throw for shit! Know what happens when you can't get someone down in a fight? You're gonna get punched in the face. It hurts WHEN you train for it, never mind when you DON'T train for it!

You know what happens when you spar a Boxer and keep coming second best? It's a long time in that ring, that's what.

The intensity is worlds apart! Starting off on your knees (that's a fucking joke) against starting off with someone trying to punch you in the face, is like night and day, literally.

The toughness that Boxers possess is LEGENDARY. BJJ'ers? Not so much.

Just another case of the inner-geek/idiot in Rogan coming out (again).
7/18/13 4:39 PM
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Tehunamatata
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Gomrad -
Tilla -
MTH - 

Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 

I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.

I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.

^^ this ...
blue belt level takedowns probably won't be enough to drag world champion boxers down before your head gets blasted off

This reminds me of the guys that thought UFC 1 Royce beats Prime Tyson in street fight 10 times out of 10... Iron Mike's speed and power were enough to kill average built men like Gracie, his dive bomber double wasn't getting that hulk down... Phone Post 3.0
Depends on the school but blue belt level takedowns are still better than boxing takedown defense which is at level 0.

Of course he has a punchers chance but at the end of the day boxers spend 0 time on dealing with takedowns. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 4:47 PM
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Gomrad
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MattyJ -
Tilla -
MTH - 

Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 

I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.

I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.

He did say provided Floyd doesn't get the first punch in/stop the takedown etc which is entirely right, obviously if Floyd started throwing he's going to light your average guy up before he even knows he's been hit but if a blue belt got a hold of him then he's going to strangle him/break something . Phone Post 3.0
Is this a "street fight" we are talking about?

When it hits the ground are you and PBF limited to only IBJJF blue belt division techniques??

If this was a fight to the death are you "athletic" enough to stop him from ripping your face / balls off or gouging your eyes out???

BJJ has its limitations too and when the shit hits the fan victory will go the better man not just based on his preferred fighting style Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 4:47 PM
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kostello
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Dumbest argument ever.

7/18/13 4:51 PM
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Marketing guy
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1st I'm pretty sure Joe said average COLLEGE wrestler. These guys are not beginners. I don't remember Joe saying beginner BJJ. I agree Floyd probably beats a fricken new guy. A college wrestler's training is insanely intense and more than likely He would get Floyd down quickly and hold him there.
7/18/13 4:55 PM
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MMA Matt
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I don't know how many times we have to go through this. Rogan said an average college wrestler. I have a friend who was a 2 time High School State champion and was an average college wrestler. Don't underestimate how dangerous an "average" college wrester is. Also, Art Jimmerson is probably the most made fun of fighter in the history of MMA but at one point in his boxing career he was 31-6 with the IBC Americas Light Heavyweight Championship and lost fights for the NABF Cruiserweight and NABF Light Heavyweight Championships. Jimmerson was a very accomplished boxer and he tapped to nothing. James Toney was mauled by Randy Couture. Mercer kayoed Silvia who was never very good at jits and had no wrestling background. I agree 1000% with Rogan. And for all you boxers who are hating on jits guys for not wanting to spar, at my gym the boxers certainly aren't running for the mats to roll with us, I spar all the time with them. Arguing for boxing is assine.
7/18/13 4:57 PM
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Gomrad
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E55 Pilot - LOL @ 6 months of sprawl training helping you against an average division 1 wrestler. Your average division 1 wrester is a high school state champion, national placer, all American etc. Non wrestlers have no idea about what it takes to get to that level and I can promise you that 6 months or even 2 years of "sprawl training" isn't going to do shit for you against someone at that level. I'll even go as far as saying that a high school all American will roll up anyone with only 6 months to 2 years of sprawl training and that includes Mayweather.
Jesus Christ now high school kids can beat Floyd in a fight?!? WTF guys... I have taught in public high schools and coached wrestling for 16 years. A kid on my team even won USA Wrestling Junior National Championship in Fargo this week...
I believe there are some HS wrestlers that could beat some pro boxers in a fight sure. But becoming a HS all American is not enough to give you the nod against a world champion boxer...

If I am being trolled then bravo fellas Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 4:59 PM
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ohmy23
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Tehunamatata - also who was the last person PBF KOed that wasnt looking at the Ref, he has 1 chance to land hard and clean and I would question the "hard".

look at Randy vs Toney - not 1 punch connected on the feet and Randy pulls a very low single that I learnt in my first BJJ class.
Floyd has 2 KO's in last 6 fights (Ortiz/hatton) ... I wouldn't question his punch as much as it would be him facing top comp. His last 6 opponents have only been stopped 10 times combined in 275 prize fights.

This discussion wasn't centered on a pro boxer facing a pro mma fighter in mma.... Myself nor anyone else would think someone like Henderson or aldo or any professional mma fighter wouldn't kick Floyd's ass in mma fight or on the street or wherever. But there are ppl on this thread, thinking their blue or purple belt bjj skills would allow them to beat Floyd's ass. The delusion is strong.

Btw I don't think the low single you learned in your first class would have allowed you to take down even an over the hill James toney Phone Post 3.0

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