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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan: Mayweather gets killed by average wrestler

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7/18/13 6:27 PM
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Gomrad
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Tehunamatata - <blockquote>ItBurnsWheniOG - <blockquote>Tehunamatata - <blockquote>Gomrad - <blockquote>crsjedi1 - <p>
If floyd jr. and Benson Henderson met in a park,"without Floyds goons around" and they got into it? Bendo is at dinner by 5 and floyd is still getting treated at the hospital..... FACT</p></blockquote>^^^. This... Yes... All day<br><br>But Benson is a world champion not a blue belt who wrestles in pajamas 2-3 night a week for an hour <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/></blockquote><br /> like ive been saying 2-3 nights a week in pajams is still way more then floyd trains (in takedowns)</blockquote>You're right but how do you get down a world class athlete like Floyd? Do you think you're scrambling in on him without getting your nose broken? You act likes he's gonna stand in front of you and let you take him down. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/></blockquote><br />So there seams to be this "Athleticism is better than takedown skills" argument forming...so its not because he has better boxing or fighting skills but better athleticism, via that rationale a marathon runner would be a decent fighter...<br /><br />"you act like he is gonna stand in front of you and let u take him down"<br /><br />no - but im fairly confident he aint gonna sprawl or defend his legs in anyway <br /><br />AS we saw with Kerr/Coleman/Couture - those meatheaded wrestlrs will take plenty of shots and still get a takedown and GnP.<br /><br />
You are correct, but that doesn't change the fact that OP Blue Belt Pajama Wrestler is not Prime Mark Kerr... Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 6:31 PM
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Authority Figure
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Eh....no. But if there is an "average" collegiate wrestler dumbe enough to try, Las Vegas is where Mayweather lives and possibly where you get buried.

7/18/13 6:33 PM
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dudefromisrael
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If floyd jr. and Benson Henderson met in a park,"without Floyds goons around" and they got into it? Bendo is at dinner by 5 and floyd is still getting treated at the hospital..... FACT

^^^. This... Yes... All day

But Benson is a world champion not a blue belt who wrestles in pajamas 2-3 night a week for an hour Phone Post 3.0

like ive been saying 2-3 nights a week in pajams is still way more then floyd trains (in takedowns)
You're right but how do you get down a world class athlete like Floyd? Do you think you're scrambling in on him without getting your nose broken? You act likes he's gonna stand in front of you and let you take him down. Phone Post 3.0
yep Phone Post
7/18/13 6:39 PM
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Spoonie Luv
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7/18/13 6:41 PM
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Tehunamatata
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See look at the Randy vs Toney gif

he shoots from way outside for a low single and drives forward and gets and easy takedown 15s in, no punchs connected.

Even though its Randy, this resembles a shitty BJJ takedown from way outside, head down bent posture, its not a clean double double leg.

Would this work against a decent MMAer or wrestler no - does it work against a Pro Boxer - YES

Athleticism has nothing to do with it (it was 15s in)

Head movement and boxing footwork had nothing to do with it.

It was simply a technique Toney was not used to (even with a few months training) - same as PBF.
7/18/13 6:56 PM
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theken206
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God here we go again. Pretty much anyone with legit grappling experience and even say some D level standup and hopefully a few street fights is going to fuck Floyd up.

Lets just look at it from a stance style angle. Floyd doesn't even jab all that much, he likes to slip and fire that right hand or the left check hook and if he finds himself off line or can't cut a sharp angle he clinches up.

That's Floyd for pretty much the first three rounds. Anyone with half decent take downs and the ability to at least throw a good teap and or switch 10 is going go be able to murk Imo.

7/18/13 6:59 PM
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PrettyBoy
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Animal Mother - 
Sliva_Plated_Fedor -
zFugitive - Didn't James Toney vs Couture already prove this point?
How about Ray Mercer KO'ing Tim Sylvia in an MMA match?? Phone Post 3.0
Tim Sylvia has been a black eye for Mma for quite some time. Phone Post 3.0

Wow nice way to try and ignore the reality of the situation all together.

Tim is 9-4 in the UFC. Is a Two time UFC Champion. The pinnacle of MMA.

He left the UFC after going 7-2 basically from 2005-2007 and on the heels of a fight of the night performance vs Nogeria for the Interim Heavyweight Title. Meaning he was at the TOP of the UFC when he left... it clearly was not a performance issue or he wouldn't have just had a three round war for the title.

Less than 5 months later he fought Fedor for Affliction. When Fedor beat him everyone looked at that victory as ABSOLUTE PROOF that he was the greatest fighter on earth. Again Tim Sylvia was fighting the absolute best MMA had to offer before...

The Next Fight of his career he was KOed by Ray Mercer in 9 seconds.

And all of a sudden to all MMA fans he was never that good..yadda yadda.

Never mind after the Mercer fight he again went like 7-1 until he lost to Ishi last December in Japan.

Yet despite all that a 48 year old retired boxer who never reached the pinnacle of Boxing. (Mercer never won the IBF,WBA,WBC He won the WBO at a time when that really didn't matter. And lost it shortly thereafter to Larry "old man" Homes.) Was able to topple one of MMA's best HW's in 9 seconds.

The same guy who could kick the shit out of great grapplers like ADCC World Champion Ricco Rodriguez got dropped by a retired old fat boxer.

And that is all the proof you need to know that Rogans argument is nothing but insecure fuckery. Fighting is an individual sport and blanket statements like wresters will beat boxers / or MMA fighters can beat all boxers are ignorant and just flat out wrong.
7/18/13 7:21 PM
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justinthevikingwren
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Fr35h Prync3 - I agree 100% with Joe Phone Post 3.0
Signed Phone Post
7/18/13 7:22 PM
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FingerorMoon
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Floyd Mayweather beat the Big Show at Wrestlemania.
I mean sure, he used a chair, but what more proof do we need?
7/18/13 7:32 PM
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Tehunamatata
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PrettyBoy - 
Animal Mother - 
Sliva_Plated_Fedor -
zFugitive - Didn't James Toney vs Couture already prove this point?
How about Ray Mercer KO'ing Tim Sylvia in an MMA match?? Phone Post 3.0
Tim Sylvia has been a black eye for Mma for quite some time. Phone Post 3.0

Wow nice way to try and ignore the reality of the situation all together.

Tim is 9-4 in the UFC. Is a Two time UFC Champion. The pinnacle of MMA.

He left the UFC after going 7-2 basically from 2005-2007 and on the heels of a fight of the night performance vs Nogeria for the Interim Heavyweight Title. Meaning he was at the TOP of the UFC when he left... it clearly was not a performance issue or he wouldn't have just had a three round war for the title.

Less than 5 months later he fought Fedor for Affliction. When Fedor beat him everyone looked at that victory as ABSOLUTE PROOF that he was the greatest fighter on earth. Again Tim Sylvia was fighting the absolute best MMA had to offer before...

The Next Fight of his career he was KOed by Ray Mercer in 9 seconds.

And all of a sudden to all MMA fans he was never that good..yadda yadda.

Never mind after the Mercer fight he again went like 7-1 until he lost to Ishi last December in Japan.

Yet despite all that a 48 year old retired boxer who never reached the pinnacle of Boxing. (Mercer never won the IBF,WBA,WBC He won the WBO at a time when that really didn't matter. And lost it shortly thereafter to Larry "old man" Homes.) Was able to topple one of MMA's best HW's in 9 seconds.

The same guy who could kick the shit out of great grapplers like ADCC World Champion Ricco Rodriguez got dropped by a retired old fat boxer.

And that is all the proof you need to know that Rogans argument is nothing but insecure fuckery. Fighting is an individual sport and blanket statements like wresters will beat boxers / or MMA fighters can beat all boxers are ignorant and just flat out wrong.

I guess all thses arguments asume the grappler actually goes straight for a takedown and doesnt fck around with striking, like Randy did with Toney and Royce with Art.

yes its an individual sport and some individuals have stupid game plans like exchanging punchs with a former WBO heavweight title holder.

Joe made a blanket statement that is probably more right than wrong.
7/18/13 7:45 PM
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ausgepicht
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Edited: 07/18/13 7:45 PM
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supremexb - 
ausgepicht - 
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MTH - 


Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 



I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.



I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.
 


Member Since: 10/13/12



MTH would murder Gayweather and so wouldn't anyone with a few months training in MMA. You suffer from what is called UFC 8 syndrome.




Sweet so in a couple of months i'll be able to beat one of the greatest boxers of all time in a street fight!!!!

Promising, right? However, it seems you are better served in spending the time learning how to use this complex website. 

 

7/18/13 7:46 PM
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tanner904
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Of course PBF would lose an mma fight just like he'd beat the hell out of benson Henderson in a boxing match no point in even comparing the two. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 7:53 PM
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fightharder
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If his shoot is dynamic enough i think Joe is right.

But you have to get a hold of Floyd without actually getting hit. I do not think most BJJ guys could do it. I also do not think most top level kickboxers in the same weight-class would match up well against someone like Floyd.

Having said that Petrosyan might still get a double. Perhaps even Souwer.If you have an fighter who is a technical kickboxer,with excellent defense, then he will kick Floyd out of the game with legkicks.

Yes Floyd might be the greatest boxer of the moment (personally i do not think he is the best of all time...though one could argue that i guess) but if you think he would stand a chance in a fight against someone like GSP you are obviously kidding yourself.
7/18/13 7:55 PM
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thegoldenboy
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Hey guys, I'm new here but I think I’m equipped at some level to discuss this topic as I’ve trained MMA for approximately 2 years at a top MMA gym (home to a few UFC fighters) and boxing for 1 year with top boxing coaches. I was previously seeking an amateur career if not a professional career in MMA but have decided to make the switch to boxing. I’ve also been in a number of street fights so I feel like my opinion is a valid one.

Anyway, first I’d like to say that I love both sports and have absolutely no bias in my comments. I believe that MMA is king for a 1 on 1 fight against a boxer whether that be in the cage or in a random field, however if the two opponents do not know each others skill sets there is a significant risk that the MMA fighter tries to box with the boxer and gets subsequently knocked out. This is why if a boxer steps in the cage with an MMA fighter he will nearly always lose as the MMA fighter knows exactly what to do to win.

The mistake that many people make is the comparing of the cage to the street. I can confidently say that the cage is not or anything like the street. My honest belief is that boxing is king for a street fight. Why? Because in the majority of street fights you will not be in a 1 vs 1 fight, you will not want to grapple with someone or take him down because of the risk of him pulling a knife or simply because of the fact that the concrete ground is dangerous/dirty and you are at severe risk of being kicked in the head by others. Kicking and kneeing is also a risky manoeuvre as it puts you off balance and is difficult to throw if you are wearing trousers or jeans. Lastly elbows are hard to land due to their short range leaving punches as the most reliable way to end a fight. Also most fights go from 0-100mph in the space of a few seconds; in these cases punches are thrown before anything else as they are the most quickest and efficient way to hurt someone. You will find more often than not that even MMA fighters prefer to box when it comes to street fights. A good example is how Lee Murray knocked Tito Ortiz out cold in the street with one or two PUNCHES, now imagine if he got into a fight with an elite boxer. Obviously in the cage it would have been a very different story but the street is not the the fucking cage. The street is a dirty grimy place and fights always start standing, this gives the boxer a huge advantage over anyone.

Also in nearly every street fight that I have been in I have used nothing but my fists even though I had many other tools and skills at my disposal. However, in every 1 vs 1 fight I have been in e.g school fight, cage fight nothing beats MMA obviously.

By the way, those who are saying a BBJ blue belt or ANYONE WHO ISN'T A PROFESSIONAL MMA FIGHTER AND KNOWS HE'S FIGHTING A BOXER could beat Mayweather in a street fight are completely delusional. He would fucking knock you out 5 times before you hit the ground you complete dickhead. Do you have any idea how much skill and speed good boxers have, let alone the best boxer on there planet. You morons simply don't understand how quick and hard boxers punch, you would fall like a sack of shit before the thought of a takedown even entered your mind. It infuriates me how people think MMA is a street fight. I honestly believe that if Jon Jones was in a pub and he started getting mouthy to an elite boxer who he didn't know was a boxer he would get knocked the fuck out simply because he would expect he would be able to knock him out with his hands.
7/18/13 8:01 PM
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Animal Mother
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Edited: 07/18/13 8:04 PM
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PrettyBoy - 
Animal Mother - 
Sliva_Plated_Fedor -
zFugitive - Didn't James Toney vs Couture already prove this point?
How about Ray Mercer KO'ing Tim Sylvia in an MMA match?? Phone Post 3.0
Tim Sylvia has been a black eye for Mma for quite some time. Phone Post 3.0

Wow nice way to try and ignore the reality of the situation all together.

Tim is 9-4 in the UFC. Is a Two time UFC Champion. The pinnacle of MMA.

He left the UFC after going 7-2 basically from 2005-2007 and on the heels of a fight of the night performance vs Nogeria for the Interim Heavyweight Title. Meaning he was at the TOP of the UFC when he left... it clearly was not a performance issue or he wouldn't have just had a three round war for the title.

Less than 5 months later he fought Fedor for Affliction. When Fedor beat him everyone looked at that victory as ABSOLUTE PROOF that he was the greatest fighter on earth. Again Tim Sylvia was fighting the absolute best MMA had to offer before...

The Next Fight of his career he was KOed by Ray Mercer in 9 seconds.

And all of a sudden to all MMA fans he was never that good..yadda yadda.

Never mind after the Mercer fight he again went like 7-1 until he lost to Ishi last December in Japan.

Yet despite all that a 48 year old retired boxer who never reached the pinnacle of Boxing. (Mercer never won the IBF,WBA,WBC He won the WBO at a time when that really didn't matter. And lost it shortly thereafter to Larry "old man" Homes.) Was able to topple one of MMA's best HW's in 9 seconds.

The same guy who could kick the shit out of great grapplers like ADCC World Champion Ricco Rodriguez got dropped by a retired old fat boxer.

And that is all the proof you need to know that Rogans argument is nothing but insecure fuckery. Fighting is an individual sport and blanket statements like wresters will beat boxers / or MMA fighters can beat all boxers are ignorant and just flat out wrong.

If that is not revisionist history I don't know what is. By the same logic Streetfighting in backyards is superior to professional boxing, and Kimbo Slice proved it. Also, Tim Sylvia was neither a wrestler or a BJJ guy you dolt. TS presided over the weakest HW division the UFC has seen, and people have been saying that about him for years, you seriously have no clue what you're talking about. To bring up his record of fighting cans and losing to Ultimate Fighter mediocrity as proof positive of your point makes you sound like a moran.
7/18/13 8:03 PM
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Mojo514
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Joe is 100% right, u saw wat Randy Couture did to James Toney, since Mayweather is a smaller guy he'd probly get smashed harder, Randy could take him easily, Ronda Rousey would throw him around like a ragdoll then break his limbs off, Jose Aldo would go crazy on this guy with leg kicks n punches as well, MMA fighters would demolish boxers unless of course they get clipped, but MMA fighters c the fight in a whole different way then boxers n thats a fact
7/18/13 8:09 PM
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thegoldenboy
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Mojo514 - Joe is 100% right, u saw wat Randy Couture did to James Toney, since Mayweather is a smaller guy he'd probly get smashed harder, Randy could take him easily, Ronda Rousey would throw him around like a ragdoll then break his limbs off, Jose Aldo would go crazy on this guy with leg kicks n punches as well, MMA fighters would demolish boxers unless of course they get clipped, but MMA fighters c the fight in a whole different way then boxers n thats a fact

Your a complete and utter moron. I completely agree that a boxer would get smashed in the cage as long as the MMA fighter takes him down instantly. However, if he did not take him down straight away ANYONE including Jose Aldo would get knocked the fuck out. You know why? I'll tell you why.....because Jose Aldo's muay thai skills are nothing compared to Floyd's boxing skills. Also Ronda would leave the cage without a head you fucking idiot.
7/18/13 8:10 PM
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ProteinBake
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thegoldenboy - Hey guys, I'm new here but I think I’m equipped at some level to discuss this topic as I’ve trained MMA for approximately 2 years at a top MMA gym (home to a few UFC fighters) and boxing for 1 year with top boxing coaches. I was previously seeking an amateur career if not a professional career in MMA but have decided to make the switch to boxing. I’ve also been in a number of street fights so I feel like my opinion is a valid one.

Anyway, first I’d like to say that I love both sports and have absolutely no bias in my comments. I believe that MMA is king for a 1 on 1 fight against a boxer whether that be in the cage or in a random field, however if the two opponents do not know each others skill sets there is a significant risk that the MMA fighter tries to box with the boxer and gets subsequently knocked out. This is why if a boxer steps in the cage with an MMA fighter he will nearly always lose as the MMA fighter knows exactly what to do to win.

The mistake that many people make is the comparing of the cage to the street. I can confidently say that the cage is not or anything like the street. My honest belief is that boxing is king for a street fight. Why? Because in the majority of street fights you will not be in a 1 vs 1 fight, you will not want to grapple with someone or take him down because of the risk of him pulling a knife or simply because of the fact that the concrete ground is dangerous/dirty and you are at severe risk of being kicked in the head by others. Kicking and kneeing is also a risky manoeuvre as it puts you off balance and is difficult to throw if you are wearing trousers or jeans. Lastly elbows are hard to land due to their short range leaving punches as the most reliable way to end a fight. Also most fights go from 0-100mph in the space of a few seconds; in these cases punches are thrown before anything else as they are the most quickest and efficient way to hurt someone. You will find more often than not that even MMA fighters prefer to box when it comes to street fights. A good example is how Lee Murray knocked Tito Ortiz out cold in the street with one or two PUNCHES, now imagine if he got into a fight with an elite boxer. Obviously in the cage it would have been a very different story but the street is not the the fucking cage. The street is a dirty grimy place and fights always start standing, this gives the boxer a huge advantage over anyone.

Also in nearly every street fight that I have been in I have used nothing but my fists even though I had many other tools and skills at my disposal. However, in every 1 vs 1 fight I have been in e.g school fight, cage fight nothing beats MMA obviously.

By the way, those who are saying a BBJ blue belt or ANYONE WHO ISN'T A PROFESSIONAL MMA FIGHTER AND KNOWS HE'S FIGHTING A BOXER could beat Mayweather in a street fight are completely delusional. He would fucking knock you out 5 times before you hit the ground you complete dickhead. Do you have any idea how much skill and speed good boxers have, let alone the best boxer on there planet. You morons simply don't understand how quick and hard boxers punch, you would fall like a sack of shit before the thought of a takedown even entered your mind. It infuriates me how people think MMA is a street fight. I honestly believe that if Jon Jones was in a pub and he started getting mouthy to an elite boxer who he didn't know was a boxer he would get knocked the fuck out simply because he would expect he would be able to knock him out with his hands.

Interesting take. VTFU

7/18/13 8:11 PM
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thegoldenboy
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Mojo514 - Joe is 100% right, u saw wat Randy Couture did to James Toney, since Mayweather is a smaller guy he'd probly get smashed harder, Randy could take him easily, Ronda Rousey would throw him around like a ragdoll then break his limbs off, Jose Aldo would go crazy on this guy with leg kicks n punches as well, MMA fighters would demolish boxers unless of course they get clipped, but MMA fighters c the fight in a whole different way then boxers n thats a fact

ALSO Jose Aldo even admitted in an interview he would lose to Floyd in a kickboxing match.
7/18/13 8:29 PM
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Gomrad
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fightharder - If his shoot is dynamic enough i think Joe is right.

But you have to get a hold of Floyd without actually getting hit. I do not think most BJJ guys could do it. I also do not think most top level kickboxers in the same weight-class would match up well against someone like Floyd.

Having said that Petrosyan might still get a double. Perhaps even Souwer.If you have an fighter who is a technical kickboxer,with excellent defense, then he will kick Floyd out of the game with legkicks.

Yes Floyd might be the greatest boxer of the moment (personally i do not think he is the best of all time...though one could argue that i guess) but if you think he would stand a chance in a fight against someone like GSP you are obviously kidding yourself.
GSP beating PBF: yes

But then again GSP is not a Blue Belt Pajama Wrestler mcdojo level athlete Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 8:31 PM
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Gomrad
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This guy had it right when talking about "average joe" grapplers beating PBF in a street fight:

"you would fall like a sack of shit before the thought of a takedown even entered your mind. It infuriates me how people think MMA is a street fight"

Some of these guys have watched one too many Gracie Breakdowns on Fuel TV Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 8:32 PM
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renerocker
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PrettyBoy - 
Animal Mother - 
Sliva_Plated_Fedor -
zFugitive - Didn't James Toney vs Couture already prove this point?
How about Ray Mercer KO'ing Tim Sylvia in an MMA match?? Phone Post 3.0
Tim Sylvia has been a black eye for Mma for quite some time. Phone Post 3.0

Wow nice way to try and ignore the reality of the situation all together.

Tim is 9-4 in the UFC. Is a Two time UFC Champion. The pinnacle of MMA.

He left the UFC after going 7-2 basically from 2005-2007 and on the heels of a fight of the night performance vs Nogeria for the Interim Heavyweight Title. Meaning he was at the TOP of the UFC when he left... it clearly was not a performance issue or he wouldn't have just had a three round war for the title.

Less than 5 months later he fought Fedor for Affliction. When Fedor beat him everyone looked at that victory as ABSOLUTE PROOF that he was the greatest fighter on earth. Again Tim Sylvia was fighting the absolute best MMA had to offer before...

The Next Fight of his career he was KOed by Ray Mercer in 9 seconds.

And all of a sudden to all MMA fans he was never that good..yadda yadda.

Never mind after the Mercer fight he again went like 7-1 until he lost to Ishi last December in Japan.

Yet despite all that a 48 year old retired boxer who never reached the pinnacle of Boxing. (Mercer never won the IBF,WBA,WBC He won the WBO at a time when that really didn't matter. And lost it shortly thereafter to Larry "old man" Homes.) Was able to topple one of MMA's best HW's in 9 seconds.

The same guy who could kick the shit out of great grapplers like ADCC World Champion Ricco Rodriguez got dropped by a retired old fat boxer.

And that is all the proof you need to know that Rogans argument is nothing but insecure fuckery. Fighting is an individual sport and blanket statements like wresters will beat boxers / or MMA fighters can beat all boxers are ignorant and just flat out wrong.

Mercer is an Olympic Gold Medalist. That´s not Floyd level success, but it´s still the pinnacle of Boxing.

7/18/13 8:33 PM
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jcblass
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Edited: 07/18/13 8:35 PM
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This works only if you are not a former UFC champion named Tim Sylvia, fighting a 50 year old, over the hill, mid-tier contender heavyweight.

:)


Edited:

I see several people correctly pointed this out already.
7/18/13 8:36 PM
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TexDeuce
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Any college wrestler worth half a shit would easily take down Floyd and do as he wishes to him.

Boxing is great but only helps if you can keep it on your feet. Phone Post 3.0
7/18/13 8:55 PM
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thegoldenboy
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TexDeuce - Any college wrestler worth half a shit would easily take down Floyd and do as he wishes to him.

Boxing is great but only helps if you can keep it on your feet. Phone Post 3.0

Yeah in the cage where the wrestler is completely prepared and knows exactly what he has to do to win. However, in the streets the wrestler would very likely get knocked the fucked out before he even thought of taking him down, and if he did take him down I'm pretty sure Floyd's friends would stomp the shit out of him.

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