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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan: Mayweather gets killed by average wrestler


7/19/13 6:30 AM
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Y2JB
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The disrespect toward floyd in this thread is staggering. He would absolutely rape any amateur fighter, 99.99% of people are ko'd the second they step into the pocket, joe schmo's double leg ain't doing shit.
7/19/13 6:47 AM
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madbanker
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Who is stepping into the pocket? Shoot from outside his range. Again 50 fn cent took him down in a fight. Phone Post
7/19/13 6:56 AM
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ptper
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Dumb comment elicits even dumber responses.
7/19/13 7:12 AM
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MattyJ
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MysteriousNinjaFromMars -
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Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 

I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.

I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.

He did say provided Floyd doesn't get the first punch in/stop the takedown etc which is entirely right, obviously if Floyd started throwing he's going to light your average guy up before he even knows he's been hit but if a blue belt got a hold of him then he's going to strangle him/break something . Phone Post 3.0

Exactly.  I'm not delusional about my "special" abilities or unaware of Floyd's phenomenal abilities. 

Floyd hits me--and I'm done.  He could light me up in ways they'd have to tell me about in the hospital once I woke up.  I would never be so stupid as to claim anything else. 

I'm just saying that with a significant weight advantage, a legit and aggressive blue belt is probably going to manhandle a boxer PROVIDED that the boxer has no grappling training to speak of and the blue belt doesn't get clocked on the way in. 

It's Art Jimmerson all over again.  That's all. 


So you're comparing a black belt Royce Gracie who has been training BJJ his whole life vs a journeyman boxer in art jimmerman, to you a blue belt against one of the best boxers on the planet today and one of the best athletes on the planet today?

Sure thats exactly the same.

Tell me this , do you even realise how quick that fucker can move ? He would light you up so god-damn quick it would make your head spin (or fly clean off your shoulders). And what about footwork, do you think hes going to be standing still while you get in close to grab him?

You have no clue my friend , that blue belt has given you false confidence. I know a few blue belts that would have a hard time kicking my ass in a street fight if they even could, and im just a regular guy.

Mayweather would kill you, thinking anything else is lunacy and delusion.
Again the point being missed is if Floyd didn't get the first punch in and if he got a hold of him.

Also if you think that as a blue belt is only one step up from a white therefore you could hold your own against your average blue, go down your local BJJ academy and roll with a couple of blues your size and see how you get on. Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 7:22 AM
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Animal Mother
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PrettyBoy -
Animal Mother - 
PrettyBoy - 
Animal Mother - 
Sliva_Plated_Fedor -
zFugitive - Didn't James Toney vs Couture already prove this point?
How about Ray Mercer KO'ing Tim Sylvia in an MMA match?? Phone Post 3.0
Tim Sylvia has been a black eye for Mma for quite some time. Phone Post 3.0

Wow nice way to try and ignore the reality of the situation all together.

Tim is 9-4 in the UFC. Is a Two time UFC Champion. The pinnacle of MMA.

He left the UFC after going 7-2 basically from 2005-2007 and on the heels of a fight of the night performance vs Nogeria for the Interim Heavyweight Title. Meaning he was at the TOP of the UFC when he left... it clearly was not a performance issue or he wouldn't have just had a three round war for the title.

Less than 5 months later he fought Fedor for Affliction. When Fedor beat him everyone looked at that victory as ABSOLUTE PROOF that he was the greatest fighter on earth. Again Tim Sylvia was fighting the absolute best MMA had to offer before...

The Next Fight of his career he was KOed by Ray Mercer in 9 seconds.

And all of a sudden to all MMA fans he was never that good..yadda yadda.

Never mind after the Mercer fight he again went like 7-1 until he lost to Ishi last December in Japan.

Yet despite all that a 48 year old retired boxer who never reached the pinnacle of Boxing. (Mercer never won the IBF,WBA,WBC He won the WBO at a time when that really didn't matter. And lost it shortly thereafter to Larry "old man" Homes.) Was able to topple one of MMA's best HW's in 9 seconds.

The same guy who could kick the shit out of great grapplers like ADCC World Champion Ricco Rodriguez got dropped by a retired old fat boxer.

And that is all the proof you need to know that Rogans argument is nothing but insecure fuckery. Fighting is an individual sport and blanket statements like wresters will beat boxers / or MMA fighters can beat all boxers are ignorant and just flat out wrong.

If that is not revisionist history I don't know what is. By the same logic Streetfighting in backyards is superior to professional boxing, and Kimbo Slice proved it. Also, Tim Sylvia was neither a wrestler or a BJJ guy you dolt. TS presided over the weakest HW division the UFC has seen, and people have been saying that about him for years, you seriously have no clue what you're talking about. To bring up his record of fighting cans and losing to Ultimate Fighter mediocrity as proof positive of your point makes you sound like a moran.

What is revisionist about it? You are telling me Tim Sylvia was not ranked in the top 10 HW in MMA just one fight before Mercer...fuck maybe even at the time he fought Mercer. People on here were not claiming Fedor would clearly ass rape anyone in the UFC Post his 36 second smashing of Tim Sylvia?

Was Tim not beating Nog in his last fight in the UFC before the choke? Most everyone I know has it 2-0 for Tim going into the 3rd.

A guy that can go 5 Rounds with Randy isn't a good enough representative of MMA for you?

Beating guys like Mike Whitehead, Brandon Vera, Andrei Arlofsky, Ben Rothwell, Paul Bunetello etc doesn't count anymore? Is that what I'm hearing? These dudes are all bums right?

The fact is your wrong. And if you followed my point it was that you cannot make generic conclusions the way Rogan does. I would never say something as dumb as any average boxer will take out Chuck Liddell in a street fight...shit I wouldn't even say it about a street fighter as you mentioned.

Because it all comes down to the individual and whether you know who you are dealing with. But as has been shown even when you do know sometimes you still get cracked.
I think you completely misunderstand what he said. Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 7:31 AM
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JudOWNED
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So we got a guy in my judo club that's a decent ammy boxer. Decent enough to go pro if he wanted to, which he doesn't. The guy took to judo like water! His fast hands make grip fighting him a b!tch. His footwork is amazing and he has an incredible base (balance). Guy was very difficult to throw from day one. Now that he's been training about a year, he basically stalemates me (a brown belt) in randori.

In my defense, I will mention he also has about 60 pounds on me. But the point is the athleticism, balance, timing and footwork he brought with him from boxing gave him a huge advantage in starting grappling.
7/19/13 7:36 AM
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MysteriousNinjaFromMars
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MysteriousNinjaFromMars -
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Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 

I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.

I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.

He did say provided Floyd doesn't get the first punch in/stop the takedown etc which is entirely right, obviously if Floyd started throwing he's going to light your average guy up before he even knows he's been hit but if a blue belt got a hold of him then he's going to strangle him/break something . Phone Post 3.0

Exactly.  I'm not delusional about my "special" abilities or unaware of Floyd's phenomenal abilities. 

Floyd hits me--and I'm done.  He could light me up in ways they'd have to tell me about in the hospital once I woke up.  I would never be so stupid as to claim anything else. 

I'm just saying that with a significant weight advantage, a legit and aggressive blue belt is probably going to manhandle a boxer PROVIDED that the boxer has no grappling training to speak of and the blue belt doesn't get clocked on the way in. 

It's Art Jimmerson all over again.  That's all. 


So you're comparing a black belt Royce Gracie who has been training BJJ his whole life vs a journeyman boxer in art jimmerman, to you a blue belt against one of the best boxers on the planet today and one of the best athletes on the planet today?

Sure thats exactly the same.

Tell me this , do you even realise how quick that fucker can move ? He would light you up so god-damn quick it would make your head spin (or fly clean off your shoulders). And what about footwork, do you think hes going to be standing still while you get in close to grab him?

You have no clue my friend , that blue belt has given you false confidence. I know a few blue belts that would have a hard time kicking my ass in a street fight if they even could, and im just a regular guy.

Mayweather would kill you, thinking anything else is lunacy and delusion.
Again the point being missed is if Floyd didn't get the first punch in and if he got a hold of him.

Also if you think that as a blue belt is only one step up from a white therefore you could hold your own against your average blue, go down your local BJJ academy and roll with a couple of blues your size and see how you get on. Phone Post 3.0

I think you're missing the point my friend , floyd is not going to be a stationary target who throws one punch . He will be moving and moving fast, if the 1st punch misses guess what , he throws another. Also say he does get hold of him, does floyd just stop fighting back? Say there was a scramble and floyd got on top, could he not stand up?

And I have indeed rolled with the blue belts I know, how do you think i know them. Granted I dont have their knowledge of submissions but when we roll I do just fine. I dont sub them and they dont sub me (mostly).

While in theory IF mayweather was taken down and IF he couldnt get up then for sure he's lost , but the point that I made is that the guy who I replied to could not beat mayweather in a fight.
7/19/13 7:52 AM
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MattyJ
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I'm not saying that your average blue will win a street fight, but as you mentioned if they get into a scramble my money is on the blue coming out on top given that Mayweather has no grappling experience.

And if you roll then it's a different story(I assumed as when you mentioned blue belts you said you were just a normal guy that you didn't) I've only just switched to gi from mma and am still a white and now and again my friends I lift weights with come along who are athletic guys play right etc but don't grapple and I can tap them with ease. Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 8:05 AM
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dhughes
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A half-dead, bloated Ray Mercer KO'd the former UFC Heavyweight champion inside the first round but your average wrestler "kills" a top level athlete and boxer in Mayweather?
7/19/13 8:11 AM
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Sinful1
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Tehunamatata - Heres how it goes down...

Fat white/hispanic MMA/BJJ wannabe approaches Floyd says "whats your business, get out of my neighborhood."

Floyd says "its a free country u creepy ass cracka" - then drops that fatty with a straight right, he gets on top and starts pounding away WSHH style (cause he secretly always wanted to try some GnP)

Whitey screams for help, tries to remember his hip escapes and manages to get away, and pull out his 9mm and BAM - Floyd drops like sack of $hit.

Whitey goes to trial and gets off on self defense

floyd nuthuggers cry in the streets...

Joe was right...

lol.
7/19/13 9:04 AM
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Gomrad
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Y2JB - The disrespect toward floyd in this thread is staggering. He would absolutely rape any amateur fighter, 99.99% of people are ko'd the second they step into the pocket, joe schmo's double leg ain't doing shit.
This ^^^

Blue Belt Pajama Wrestling on your knees 2-3 nights a week at your McDojo doesn't turn you into Jordan Burroughs.... Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 9:11 AM
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Gomrad
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MattyJ - I'm not saying that your average blue will win a street fight, but as you mentioned if they get into a scramble my money is on the blue coming out on top given that Mayweather has no grappling experience.

And if you roll then it's a different story(I assumed as when you mentioned blue belts you said you were just a normal guy that you didn't) I've only just switched to gi from mma and am still a white and now and again my friends I lift weights with come along who are athletic guys play right etc but don't grapple and I can tap them with ease. Phone Post 3.0
Are any of your friends you lift weights with world champion athletes? Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 9:18 AM
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DJmixmasterMobbie
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no shit joe
7/19/13 9:31 AM
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GSPsShadyHandWraps
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willienugget - 
Chappie -  I am a fan of Joe's, but he does seem to enjoy pissing on boxing every chance he gets. He perspective on boxing seems to be more than a bit selective considering that his background is TKD. As someone who grew up wrestling and boxing and who has been around combat sports for 25 plus years, I am going to safely say that the average open class amatuer boxer would walk through 99% of the TKD practitioners in the US. Phone Post

Yeah dude and I'm sure Joe would agree with you. He's stated many times that TKD is full of holes and he realized that long ago.

He also said he left TKD because he got scared of the potential brain trauma. That makes it unlikely that he then later started to box seriously and has any real understanding of the sport or its athletes.


But i do think its amusing to see all the 300 dollar a month billy badass bluebelts expressing their toughness here

"punch a blackbelt in the face, he becomes a brownbelt, punch him again, he becomes a purple belt"

-Carlson Gracie

7/19/13 9:56 AM
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Gomrad
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^^^. I always liked that Quote....


Here is another:

"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."

-Mike Tyson Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 10:31 AM
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8flat
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8flat -
boxingman - man this is retarded

how many fcuking real street fights has rogan been in or even seen

street fights are not mma,
they are quick and dirty

and going to the ground is the dumbest idea there is
if your a real fight,

ie. fights are rarely 1-1
which means grappling gets u fucked up

and there is stuff like biting and low blows etc
not to mention weapons

as someone who grew up in russia and later
lived in a black area when i moved
and worked as a bouncer

trust boxers always do great in street fights
and most of their fights last as long as it takes to throw a few punches



ps i have boxed for 10 years and am a bjj blue belt,also wreslted a bit too
but real life teaches you
motherfucker you gotta hit

you take someone down???
his bro,kicks your fucking head in
seen this quite times
working at clubs


but i know little rich boys who 300 dollars a mouth to their bjj gyms, think mma is real fighting
because they never been in a fight
and when they get into a fight
they will call the cops
end of story



Very good point, a friend of mine took a guy down in a barfight and got stabbed by his buddy.
Went to a Royce Gracie seminar years ago. And pretty much there was no shoot into your opponent in a street fight unless the Tarmac was made of jelly and you don't mind you busting your knees.

Crazy I know Royce talking about shooting in. :) Phone Post 3.0

Yep, been there, not fun.

Although any throw or TD is better than getting killed on your feet by a golden gloves boxer. That sucked ass...jesus christ those guys have fast hands!
7/19/13 10:38 AM
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MattyJ
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Gomrad -
MattyJ - I'm not saying that your average blue will win a street fight, but as you mentioned if they get into a scramble my money is on the blue coming out on top given that Mayweather has no grappling experience.

And if you roll then it's a different story(I assumed as when you mentioned blue belts you said you were just a normal guy that you didn't) I've only just switched to gi from mma and am still a white and now and again my friends I lift weights with come along who are athletic guys play right etc but don't grapple and I can tap them with ease. Phone Post 3.0
Are any of your friends you lift weights with world champion athletes? Phone Post 3.0
Absolutely not and I'm a million miles away also, was just trying to describe the difference between someone with a bit of grappling experience against someone with none, I also don't think your average blue belt would win a street fight against Mayweather. Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 10:49 AM
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BriggsSeekins
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I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut between Mayweather and an average college wrestler as Rogan thinks it is. Mayweather would have an excellent chance of timing a punch on a wrestler shooting straight in, and that punch is going to be far harder than any blow that average college wrestler is likely to ever have taken to the face. Some guys might still finish that shot. But anybody who has seen college wrestlers sparring for their first time ever knows that no matter how tough they are, getting drilled in the face takes some getting used to. And we're talking getting popped by Mayweather. Mayweather isn't a monster puncher by elite boxing standards, but he's got knockout power. But against an average college wrestler, I would give the edge to the wrestler in an MMA fight.


As for hobbyist blue belts in BJJ thinking they would beat Mayweather in a fight, that is more comical. I am a blue belt, and probably a little beyond that in No Gi, and was a pretty decent HS wrestler over 20 years ago. I also earn part of my income writing about boxing and have covered a good number of high level fights ringside. I think some people don't really realize the degree to which boxers do have practical, standup grappling experience, to a degree. There is a ton of clinching, shrugging and jostling for space to punch in close.

A boxer with no grappling training would be prefectly vulnerable to all kinds of quick, crippling joint locks or chokes on the ground, but getting an elite boxer to the ground without getting drilled is much harder than a lot of people seem to think. You're talking about world class professional athletes with years of training to torque their shoulders and torsos violently one way, out of trouble, before exploding back into range. If you have a good, very quick double leg, that's one thing. But most blue belt level, three-five night a week blue belts don't have a double leg anything like a college wrestlers. They're not tossing a guy, based on just a little bit of momentum, the way a trained judoka or greco-roman guy can.

I saw somebody write on here that they think the average construction worker would beat the typical hypster blue belt in a street fight. That's a fucking joke. I've been on construction crews and seen plenty of above average construction worker type of guys trying to learn to fight. They aren't beating an average blue belt, just based on being so much more manly or something. I don't care if the blue belt is a college professor or hair dresser or some other such unmanly profession.

But I also think a lot of average blue belts seriously over-estimate how effective their grappling would be against a world class professional athlete who has been trained for years to control distance and deliver a lot of punches, from a lot of angles, in less time than a normal person's brain can easily process.
7/19/13 11:17 AM
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MR Combatively
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I agree with Rogan, but u have to take into consideration Mayweather is no idiot. He wouldn't just jump into an mma match with someone that's better suited than him. Mayweather is a boxing genius and a great athletic! What would stop him from becoming dedicated to being the best MMA fighter ? Nothing. If that guy had to go on the Mat if there was no more boxing he would elevate his knowledge ,and become a craftsman! That's what great fighters do!!! He would come into shape ready to learn! Not just walk into lose! That's what separates him from the rest in boxing ! Just as Rickson to Jui Jitsu, and Burroughs and Karelin to wrestling. Even GSP to MMA!

Plus not to mention when listening to Jeff Mayweather's knowledge of mma that would give money Mayweather a heads up. Not saying he could or couldn't buy most likely he would be dedicated to his craft if he had too!

MR. Combatively
7/19/13 11:40 AM
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Seedless619
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Tilla -
MTH - 

Joe was perhaps a little more combative than he needed to be in the interview, but he is, obviously, correct. 

I mean let's be honest.  I'm a 180 lb blue belt.  I'm reasonably athletic and in good physical condition.  So long as Mayweather doesn't fire the first punch and assuming he has white belt level grappling, then I'd expect I'd more than likely beat him in a street fight.  Unless he could KO me on the way in, stop my takedowns, or hold me off once we're down, I wouldn't think he'd really have much of an offense to speak of honestly.

I would not say the same about some of even the amateur MMA fighters at my gym.  We've got a guy prepping for his debut at 155 lbs, and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't beat me to death in a real fight.  Mayweather wouldn't stand a chance.  And the UFC-level fighters?  Forget about it.  Straight mauling. 


All due respect, but Floyd is POSSIBLY the best Boxer ON EARTH.

He'd knock you silly. You'd be unhealthy once he's finished with you...

Your Blue Belt? Means nothing.

Makes me laugh how you can disrespect a Pro Boxer like that. You've NEVER encountered movement like that. Ever.

Floyd?
Only way he has a chance is to start jogging..
Cardio would definitely be in his favor..
But as far as him being able to strike..
Doubt he's ever trained striking from his back..
And even if he could..Do you expect that power to be there? Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 11:43 AM
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Bry Bry
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ehh id definitely put my money on a college wrestler over mayweather but i could easily see Floyd clipping a few guys...Floyd is extremely fast with his hands and on his feet...

Floyd would hurt most average joe bjj blue belts i think..it depends on the athleticism of the blue belt..if they have a great takedown thats one thing but i doubt they do...

7/19/13 11:51 AM
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Billyz
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this debate is STILL going on?! I just don't understand the whole thing.


Floyd is an AMAZING boxer. But why does it always turn out to be this whole boxing vs BJJ etc quarrel.
Is it so illogical that someone bigger than Floyd say 185 ish with solid wrestling and grappling ability NOT be able to beat floyd in a street altercation.
Especially as its a given said wrestle/grappler/Pajama fighter would Know who Floyd is and would immediately be diving for legs or tie ups instead of standing like an idiot with someone far superior to them in their strength
Que Tim Sylvia Vs Mercer as worlds worst game plan. Poor tim fashioned himself a striker I guess and well perfect example vs a great boxer you see what happens
Que Randy vs Toney as worlds safest and smartest. Knows Toney is light years ahead in striking so dives like his life depended on it and took him down. ... AND Toney actually had the mythical 6 months of sprawl training and was expecting nothing less.

Floyd is an amazingly talented boxer and athlete and it would not be a picnic to get into an altercation with him for anyone.
However Rogan might be a bit far out as I dont thinks its clear cut, but if a lets say mid level collegiate wrestler or strong sambo/judo or BJJ'er with TD's got into it with him knowing who Floyd is and didn't pull a Tim Sylvia and went straight to the ground then well yea Floyd would be fucked. Of course that is if Floyd doesn't light him up instantly.

I'd say its a slightly favorable toss up with slight advantage for a good/solid grappler.

I'm a decent Blue belt (sadly only blue even though my first BJJ class was almost 10 years ago shows how inconsistent I am !) weigh just shy of 200 fairly built 5'11. Not an elite athlete but considered athletic and stronger than the average 32 yr old guy that works in an office in Manhattan. Wrestled in HS (not college) I was not terrible but definitely not great. Cross trained with plenty of Judo guys (and got sent flying all over the mat lol) and do the typical 2-3 days a week of pajama fighting.

How would I do.... well ....
A. probably bitch out as it would be kind of intimidating to get into it with Fucking Floyd Mayweather
B. probably get knocked out while hesitating to initiate

Or I could get lucky and we get in each others faces or a shoving match (street fight here remember, some start off like that). If something like that happened and I could get a hold (saying luck here for the boxing nuts who think they invincible) and can get him down or hell we fall down together which happens in street fights all the time. I would say then well... yea I think I could beat him up or submit him.. Lots of IF's and luck involved here but its not completely out of reality.

Someone better at what I do than me not a hard accomplishment as I am not a tough guy at all and the chances grow.

Watch what happens when boxers get into altercations at press conferences. many get all tangled up and end up on the floor. If that heppened with a grappler knowing his only chance is getting to the ground then Rogans rant makes sense




7/19/13 12:47 PM
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Tehunamatata
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Bry Bry - ehh id definitely put my money on a college wrestler over mayweather but i could easily see Floyd clipping a few guys...Floyd is extremely fast with his hands and on his feet...

Floyd would hurt most average joe bjj blue belts i think..it depends on the athleticism of the blue belt..if they have a great takedown thats one thing but i doubt they do...


This is why Joe said college wrestler cause he knows they been drilling shots and keep driving until the other guy is on his ass.

Depends with a BJJer, if they came from wrestling or some other hard nose full contact sport like football, rugby etc then yeah.

If they a rich, hipster pretty boy, whose only other activites are playing video games and writting on th UG and spends all their time doing berimbolos than no
7/19/13 2:26 PM
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saemskin
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Member Since: 6/30/10
Posts: 244
any more 5 year old video's?
ffs.
7/19/13 2:45 PM
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gloXxville
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Member Since: 3/21/13
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In all seriousness I feel there is a lack of respect for Mayweather in this thread. The level of a boxer that he is , he can literally walk down a very busy city street with a pair of sunglasses, and at any point turn to his left or right and knock out anyone who's chin he can reach in less than a blink of an eye. They would never see it coming. I damn sure don't have the ability to do that. It's a testament to that level of ability , that discussions like this even come up.

The only relevant mma vs boxing argument , which really isn't an argument should be that if you're going to cross over from mma to boxing or vice versa , you better be f*cking serious about it or you will get eaten alive.



















(or ankle picked and put in an arm triangle.)

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