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UnderGround Forums >> Hughes: How can guys complain about their pay?


7/19/13 6:11 PM
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Thacommish
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ophusker - It's like Dana says fighters just have to be cheap until they become the next Anderson Silva. That is actually the exact thing I wont' my prospective employer to tell me when I sit down for a job interview. We're going to pay you squat and you're going to have to be a cheap SOB unless you're in the top 1% of peformers in the company. Then if you achieve that level we'll pay you a lot of money. I"m honestly surprised more companies don't operate with this pay structure. I'm sure this would be acceptable to workers in all fields and walks of life.

id love to see dana walk into some fighter summit meeting and just sit down in front of everyone and just write this on the dry erase board

"A, B, C Always Be Closing"

*slaps coffee out of big countries hand*

Coffees for closers.
7/19/13 6:12 PM
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Thacommish
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Outlaw'd by Lytle - Fight for the love of fighting not for the money.

If you can't afford to fight, don't fight. Phone Post 3.0

And dont ever do anything to try to change the situation, just live with it and accept it. thanks for that stellar advice.
7/19/13 6:39 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Aww did Hardy's comments give Hughesy a sad?

7/19/13 6:45 PM
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Barbalos
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You guys are pathetic. Nobody makes enough money. Everybody gets abused by their employers. But because these guys are on TV you're going to white knight for them, ignoring everyone else who is struggling to get by. Fuck you. Where I come from we don't take about our pay, because it's none of your fucking business. You can't manage your finances with your pay? Then get another job.
7/19/13 8:00 PM
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Malvert the Janitor
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I think the craziest part of this discussion (which is often overlooked completely) is this notion that athletes must be millionaires.

What does the average Joe make a year? If dangerous jobs automatically equal wealth, folks would be going to college for coal mining.

I respect professional fighters. But not more or less than any other professional. Also, maybe more emphasis should be placed on price gouging mangers and mega-team coaching fees. Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 8:33 PM
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Zaph
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fishyfish -
Zaph - 
fishyfish -

Matt Hughes was THE most dominant Champion EVER, before all the GOATs we talk about.  apparently he is a real prick though.

How was he the most dominant ever if others have defended their titles more often and/or with no unavenged losses? He was the most dominant champion back then, but I can't think of anything he did that hasn't been surpassed by GSP since. Hughes will go down as the most dominant champion of the early days of Zuffa's UFC, but not the most dominant ever. Phone Post

yeah, for sure, totally, no argument ! 

OK, I shoulda capitalized WAS also, to balance out the EVER.

but still #1 GOAT for a while, and UNCONTESTED AS SUCH.  nowadays there's a debate over GOAT.

before GSP, Anderson, Fedor and Jones, WHO was more GOAT than Hughes ?

 

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. Phone Post
7/19/13 9:39 PM
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NFABeeJay
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MMA Lives Here -

haha Phone Post 3.0
7/19/13 9:53 PM
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Malvert the Janitor - I think the craziest part of this discussion (which is often overlooked completely) is this notion that athletes must be millionaires.

What does the average Joe make a year? If dangerous jobs automatically equal wealth, folks would be going to college for coal mining.

I respect professional fighters. But not more or less than any other professional. Also, maybe more emphasis should be placed on price gouging mangers and mega-team coaching fees. Phone Post 3.0

did you miss the part about ppl paying to watch them fight?


7/19/13 10:12 PM
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Vote me down
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Hard to compare the pay for the old timers to the new ones. MMA blew the fuck up so fast, a lot of money in it now. I'm sure Dana didnt have like 4 Ferarrii's when Matt first won the title but now he does? No money in it though right? It's all bullshit. They should all get paid more.

7/19/13 10:44 PM
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Haywood Jablowme
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4de1 - It's frustrating to hear someone like Hughes talk about merit-based pay.

I hope he can talk about what made him the best possible candidate to become UFC Vice President of Athletic Development and Government Relations.


I'm sure its 100% based on his qualifications for this position. It's all about merit.

Legend in the fight game. HOF'er, one of the highest finishing %'s. Never pissed hot, never missed weight. Took on all comers, never ducked a fight, and gave up a guaranteed title shot against Serra to fight GSP on short notice to save the NYE card.

I'm not sure why he got it either.
7/20/13 12:38 AM
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Rickson's Aura
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Matt Hughes being given some managment/executive type position by the UFC further illustrates how incestuous the UFC is. Bonnar got in the hall of fame for being cool with Dana. No good can come out of giving Matt Hughes a position of authority. I'm no fan of Matt Serra, but he was on point calling Matt Hughes a dick. As for his reign, he beat undersized fighters and the competition was not nearly as well rounded as was when he started losing. It's a shame Dennis Hallman never got the opportunity to tap him for a third time.
7/20/13 12:41 AM
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IIAces
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me101 -
JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
Michael Chase -
GMan99 - I don't like or agree with this notion, "If people aren't buying a PPV or a ticket to the event because of you, then what are you worth?" but it is being cited frequently of late.

I think this kind of thinking is what has diminished my inclination to buy PPVs. It used to be that you had a balanced card where you were interested in buying the card as a whole. Now, they have become so main event driven, and the rest of the card frequently seems like filler.

I think that if someone is a good fighter, in an interesting matchup, they contribute to my overall desire to buy the card. If there is a good main event, but a lackluster rest of the card, then I am reluctant to buy because what if the main event is disappointing?
You may not like or agree with it, but it's the nature of things. Sports will always be business and a fighter will only ever be as good as the number of people who will pay to watch him fight.

If the UFC adopted an attitude of what many posters here think is "right", MMA as a whole would probably start dying off pretty quickly. Phone Post
I don't think the Cleveland Browns are drawing viewers or are a hot ticket.

Their salary structure is the same as even the New England Patriots.

I don't think the Washington Wizards draw money but their 12th man on the bench earns more than every UFC fighter save for GSP, Jones and Silva for sitting on the bench in his warm ups for 40 minutes a night.

The UFC sells itself as a BRAND.

Dana White always positions the UFC as the brand you are paying for.

Whereas in boxing, you pay for Floyd Mayweather and not the WBC when you buy a PPV.

The UFC can't have it both ways. They want to position as a brand you are buying like leagues such as the NBA, NFL, etc yet they argue for a pay structure like in boxing where there is no league and each individual is their own brand. Phone Post

+1

Many times it's been mentioned that for a boxing match fans only turn up for the main event but for UFC's fans are there for the whole show. 

The fact people come to watch these early fights show the fighters have a higher value than the pre-lim boxers they are frequently compared with.

But prelims fighters in boxing get $500- $2k. Bottom tier guys in the UFC get 6k guaranteed and can earn up to 12k. I think the prelim fighters in the UFC are doing way better than boxing. Also in boxing the prelims fighters don't have 3 fight contracts that go 6/6 then 8/8 and 12/12 like most new starting UFC contracts. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 12:44 AM
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IIAces
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Barbalos - You guys are pathetic. Nobody makes enough money. Everybody gets abused by their employers. But because these guys are on TV you're going to white knight for them, ignoring everyone else who is struggling to get by. Fuck you. Where I come from we don't take about our pay, because it's none of your fucking business. You can't manage your finances with your pay? Then get another job.
And fucking this Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 1:02 AM
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rnunz
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Growing pains. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 7:13 AM
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Simen
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Then why is the ufc putting fighters on ppv that nobody wants to see? And why are they charging fans to watch these fight if the fighters dont deserve to get paid for it? If this is the problem couldnt the ufc just set up the fights the fans want an pay the fighters why they desrve instead? Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 7:42 AM
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BshMstr
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
mongo54 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Fitch didn't really complain, he was just honest about his pay when he got cut for being "super expensive."

It's also not about how much money, it's what percentage of the UFC revenue are they getting. Phone Post

Fitch failed to mention the sponsorship money he received as a result of the UFC brand ezposure.

That doesn't cost the UFC anything. And I highly doubt Fitch made a ton on sponsorships and his style has a lot to do with that.

Either way I don't really see how it's relevant, as all Fitch did was defend himself as being "super expensive" by bringing up how much he actually made vs what he believes the owners the UFC make. Phone Post

and Fitch was a freaking top 10 ranked fighter, according to the official UFC rankings....


say what you want about Fitch, but cutting a ranked fighter seems to undercut your entire organization's legitimacy.....
7/20/13 9:40 AM
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EazyG
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Jeebus,

Didnt we beat this fucking horse to death on the Chuck Liddell thread when he said the same biasic thing a few weeks ago. No surprise UFC shills like Hughes and Liddell are shilling. Thats what they get paid to do.

The key issue here is whether the UFC is a monopoly and uses this to underpay the fighters. I think there is a decent case vs the UFC on this. Technically with the fighters it would be a monopsony.

The govt looked into this issue when thhe UFC bought a few competitors and didnt pursue a case then but didnt rule out one in the future. This doesnt prove the case either way but is interesting.

I do suggest the UFC is pretty damn far from the competitive free market outcome.

ECONOMICS - does anyone here fucking speak it?
7/20/13 10:04 AM
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fathalpert
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Matt Hughes is probably a millionaire or multi-millionaire. How's the view up there Matt? I realize he put his time in as a pioneer but damn. Not everyone can be GSP, AS, JJ, etc... Doesn't mean the lower-mid tier guys fighting in large orgs shouldn't get better pay.
7/20/13 10:32 AM
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EazyG
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Hughes is much better at fighting than thinking....
7/20/13 12:51 PM
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hogh20
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EVERYTHING is more expensive now than it was 15 years ago, even 10 years ago. Gas, living expenses, then throw in expensive training camps and gyms.
7/20/13 3:45 PM
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folsoml
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fathalpert - Matt Hughes is probably a millionaire or multi-millionaire. How's the view up there Matt? I realize he put his time in as a pioneer but damn. Not everyone can be GSP, AS, JJ, etc... Doesn't mean the lower-mid tier guys fighting in large orgs shouldn't get better pay.

If he is, how did he get that way? Farming? Inheritance from his rich father? I'll wager it's from fighting.
7/20/13 4:04 PM
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IIAces
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Simen - Then why is the ufc putting fighters on ppv that nobody wants to see? And why are they charging fans to watch these fight if the fighters dont deserve to get paid for it? If this is the problem couldnt the ufc just set up the fights the fans want an pay the fighters why they desrve instead? Phone Post 3.0
They fight on Facebook and fuel FX before PPV. He gives you free fights every event. There is usually 5 fights in the main card. Those guys tend to get better than 6k/6k. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 4:10 PM
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IIAces
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EazyG - Jeebus,

Didnt we beat this fucking horse to death on the Chuck Liddell thread when he said the same biasic thing a few weeks ago. No surprise UFC shills like Hughes and Liddell are shilling. Thats what they get paid to do.

The key issue here is whether the UFC is a monopoly and uses this to underpay the fighters. I think there is a decent case vs the UFC on this. Technically with the fighters it would be a monopsony.

The govt looked into this issue when thhe UFC bought a few competitors and didnt pursue a case then but didnt rule out one in the future. This doesnt prove the case either way but is interesting.

I do suggest the UFC is pretty damn far from the competitive free market outcome.

ECONOMICS - does anyone here fucking speak it?
They can't and won't pursue it. Look up the definition for monopoly. And not the game. It's a subbed out sport. You don't like the damn contract don't sign. And yes, the prelim fighters you watch for free don't sell PPVs. They make 6/6. The 5 fights on PPV get people to watch them tend to have a following and make more than 6/6. So yes, the UFC is giving them 6/6 because they tend to be on free tv. This gives them free exposure for sponsors, and a chance to perform for a big contract. Prove yourself and get a following. The UFC will pay you well. Phone Post 3.0
7/20/13 6:13 PM
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BshMstr
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IIAces - 
me101 -
JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
Michael Chase -
GMan99 - I don't like or agree with this notion, "If people aren't buying a PPV or a ticket to the event because of you, then what are you worth?" but it is being cited frequently of late.

I think this kind of thinking is what has diminished my inclination to buy PPVs. It used to be that you had a balanced card where you were interested in buying the card as a whole. Now, they have become so main event driven, and the rest of the card frequently seems like filler.

I think that if someone is a good fighter, in an interesting matchup, they contribute to my overall desire to buy the card. If there is a good main event, but a lackluster rest of the card, then I am reluctant to buy because what if the main event is disappointing?
You may not like or agree with it, but it's the nature of things. Sports will always be business and a fighter will only ever be as good as the number of people who will pay to watch him fight.

If the UFC adopted an attitude of what many posters here think is "right", MMA as a whole would probably start dying off pretty quickly. Phone Post
I don't think the Cleveland Browns are drawing viewers or are a hot ticket.

Their salary structure is the same as even the New England Patriots.

I don't think the Washington Wizards draw money but their 12th man on the bench earns more than every UFC fighter save for GSP, Jones and Silva for sitting on the bench in his warm ups for 40 minutes a night.

The UFC sells itself as a BRAND.

Dana White always positions the UFC as the brand you are paying for.

Whereas in boxing, you pay for Floyd Mayweather and not the WBC when you buy a PPV.

The UFC can't have it both ways. They want to position as a brand you are buying like leagues such as the NBA, NFL, etc yet they argue for a pay structure like in boxing where there is no league and each individual is their own brand. Phone Post

+1

Many times it's been mentioned that for a boxing match fans only turn up for the main event but for UFC's fans are there for the whole show. 

The fact people come to watch these early fights show the fighters have a higher value than the pre-lim boxers they are frequently compared with.

But prelims fighters in boxing get $500- $2k. Bottom tier guys in the UFC get 6k guaranteed and can earn up to 12k. I think the prelim fighters in the UFC are doing way better than boxing. Also in boxing the prelims fighters don't have 3 fight contracts that go 6/6 then 8/8 and 12/12 like most new starting UFC contracts. Phone Post 3.0

i agree that your post is accurate, but i think people forget the difference in boxing vs MMA training...

with MMA, hopefully you have a gym where you can do all your training, and it's not uncommon for guys to need several gym memberships for various disciples. this also points out that they require more training time than the average boxer as well. additionally, you can fight more often in boxing, as the injury risk is lower and they are a ton more boxing promotions around....

it's not simply comparing pay, but cost of living, as well....
7/20/13 8:36 PM
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FingerorMoon
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Edited: 07/20/13 8:39 PM
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Yup. He is a 'vice president' like Chuck. But that doesn't mean he is biased dammit!

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