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7/28/13 9:03 AM
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Underground Blog
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The UFC on FOX 8 co-main event, Rory MacDonald vs. Jake Ellenberger featured lively trash talk leading up to it, but in the opinion of many was underwhelming when it came time to actually fight.

UFC president Dana White was characteristically blunt.

"When you get these fights where guys talk s---, those fights always suck," said White of the bout. "I think that for Ellenberger to go out and say he doesn't deserve to be in the top-10 and then not go out and try to prove that he doesn't belong in the top-10...Ellenberger literally did nothing.

"And in my opinion, Rory didn't do anything to try and finish him and put a stamp on it and make a statement, not only to the world, but to the guys that are in the division."

"He went out and bulled B.J. because he knew he could. He didn't try to bully Ellenberger. Don't come in and say my fight was great and technical and I belong in the top-10 and all this s---, and don't go in there and try to perform. I don't think he performed. I don't think he did anything. He threw a few jabs and some front kicks.

"I don't think he moves down the ladder, but do you think anybody's screaming to see him fight again? Unfortunately, we live in a business where you're as good as your last fight. That kid's in a tough enough position as it is. He trains in Georges St-Pierre's hometown, where he trains, and everything is Georges St-Pierre this, Georges St-Pierre that, and the kid has to walk around and say he doesn't want to fight Georges St-Pierre when we all f---ing know he wants to fight Georges St-Pierre. But why would he go beating his chest saying he wants to fight Georges St-Pierre when that fight isn't even close to happening yet.

"But tonight was the night. Tonight was an important night that everybody was excited for, and yes, I understand that sometimes you know you're fighting somebody dangerous. F---ing Ellenberger just sat there f----ing two feet away from me and said, 'That wasn't me tonight, I wasn't myself.' So if you're Rory, and you're that f----ing good and talented, then you imposed your will on him and show the rest of the world, not only do I belong in the top-five, I should be fighting Georges St-Pierre."

"You don't want to put on a bunch of performances like that. It's not good for anybody. It's not good for him, it's not good for us, it's not good for the sport. Not good for FOX. Definitely not good for pay-per-view."

"Lorenzo texted me and said, 'This is terrible.' I texted him back and said, 'Ellenberger's freezing. He froze tonight. I don't know why, but he did. And when he froze, Rory did nothing."

MacDonald offered a defense, saying he took what was offered - which turned out to be a jab.

"I think I did exactly what I was supposed to do," said MacDonald. "I kept up my end, and he's a counter-puncher, and a very powerful puncher. I was waiting for my opportunities."

The bout was booed loudly during the second half, but 'Ares' said he wasn't paying attention.

As for the boos that showered the cage, the 24-year-old fighter said he wasn't paying attention.

"I was focused on the task at hand, and I was waiting for the knockout to come," said MacDonald. "I was being patient. I think I did the right thing. I wasn't rushing in like a fool or an amateur fighter. Sometimes, knockouts take a little bit of time. You've got to let it happen. I wasn't forcing anything. Unfortunately, I ran out of time."

Ellenberger however expressed nothing but regret.

"It just wasn't my night," he said. "I didn't pull the trigger. I really have nothing to add. I'll leave it at that.

"I respect the fact that so much strategy goes into a fight. Rory's been very respectful to me. But like I said, I'm just very disappointed in myself."

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7/28/13 9:23 AM
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Flexo
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Yup Phone Post 3.0
7/28/13 9:25 AM
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B_Goetz
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Technical mismatches always "suck." Like Mousasi's last fight against that wrestler that he jabbed to death.

If you want to see Rory in an interesting fight, give him a more technically proficient opponent. Rory-Saffiedine next, please.
7/28/13 9:31 AM
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SKARHEAD
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Get Nick Diaz in there w/ Rory like I've been saying and you'll get your exciting fight.
7/28/13 9:34 AM
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B_Goetz
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Diaz has no answer for that.
7/28/13 9:35 AM
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Batarnaque
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I'll always wonder why the fuck some fighters don't even try to go all-in in the last 2 minutes of a fight when it's crystal clear they're losing the fight on points.

It happens A LOT... I can't even begin to really understand the psychology of fighting, but it seems to me like a major weakness to overcome... being afraid to get KTFO while bum rushing is the only reason I can think of, but you're losing the fight anyway!

Isn't that exactly what Condit did to Rory ? If I remember correctly, Rory was arguably winning the first two and got TKO'd by Condit in madman mode at the very end, knowing he had to do anything to get the W. Now that's a fucking fighter spirit.
7/28/13 9:39 AM
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Rob San Soo
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I'm sorry but I feel he promotes this type of behavior. I've be live and seen to many rampage vs rashad wolf tix fights to call bs on this one. Phone Post 3.0
7/28/13 10:18 AM
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grimer
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Spoken like a guy who isn't a fighter and has no understanding of what's on the line for these guys.

Jake froze because every time he even thought about pulling the trigger he was eating a jab. Should he have made some adjustments? Sure, but it's not always that easy.

Rory could have been more aggressive also but at the same time, what he was doing was working and he probably knew that opening it up to finish Jake was the only thing that was going to give Jake a chance to land a big punch which after the first round, was clearly his only shot at winning the fight.

Dana wants to sell tickets but these fighters don't have an obligation to put their best interests second in order to serve Dana's agenda. The minor leagues are littered with guys who lost their way out of the UFC by choosing entertainment over effectiveness. Sometimes great fighters cancel out each others strengths and you get a fight like we saw last night. That's just part of the fight game. If you can't accept it then perhaps it's time to go watch something else.
7/28/13 10:26 AM
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Entreri
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Those so-called "fans" only looking a wild man WWE swinging match.

Rory executed his game plan perfectly. He should never change it. Fight smart.
7/28/13 10:32 AM
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B_Goetz
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Batarnaque - I'll always wonder why the fuck some fighters don't even try to go all-in in the last 2 minutes of a fight when it's crystal clear they're losing the fight on points.

It happens A LOT... I can't even begin to really understand the psychology of fighting, but it seems to me like a major weakness to overcome... being afraid to get KTFO while bum rushing is the only reason I can think of, but you're losing the fight anyway!

Isn't that exactly what Condit did to Rory ? If I remember correctly, Rory was arguably winning the first two and got TKO'd by Condit in madman mode at the very end, knowing he had to do anything to get the W. Now that's a fucking fighter spirit.

I'm not sure a "bum rush" is a viable counter to a jab. In fact, I think it's an excellent way to get jabbed in your face even harder.
7/28/13 10:34 AM
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B_Goetz
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For the record, Jake tried to close the distance and get off punches throughout the fight. Every time he did, Rory stepped back and avoided them...then stuck him with the jab again. What let him down was inferior footwork and shorter reach, not a lack of aggression.
7/28/13 10:39 AM
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Easytarget
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Fighting to win but not finish. Cant blame Rory really, its a job and each win counts.
7/28/13 10:45 AM
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MrHughes1991
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Batarnaque - I'll always wonder why the fuck some fighters don't even try to go all-in in the last 2 minutes of a fight when it's crystal clear they're losing the fight on points.

It happens A LOT... I can't even begin to really understand the psychology of fighting, but it seems to me like a major weakness to overcome... being afraid to get KTFO while bum rushing is the only reason I can think of, but you're losing the fight anyway!

Isn't that exactly what Condit did to Rory ? If I remember correctly, Rory was arguably winning the first two and got TKO'd by Condit in madman mode at the very end, knowing he had to do anything to get the W. Now that's a fucking fighter spirit.
And that is why Condit will always be one of my favorite fighters. Dude will not give up and he's willing to DIE to win a fight. VTFU Phone Post 3.0
7/28/13 10:54 AM
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epwar
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"Rory just has that special something that makes people want to see him fight..." - Goldberg & Rogan pre-show (LOL!)

7/28/13 11:09 AM
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liquidrob
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Well its a good thing the UFC doesn't promote stuff like that
7/28/13 11:33 AM
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JTRipper
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Beaver x - This title doesn't even make sense. There have been tons of fights with trash talk that have been great.

Sonnen vs Silva
Brock vs Mir
Chuck vs Tito

I can't even bother going on about this, because it's so ridiculous... Fights with trash talk don't ALWAYS suck.

So many people on the UG exaggerate and blow shit out of proportion. Phone Post 3.0
Good point

I think the difference is that a lot of guys now manufacture shit talk to get noticed or to build up interest for a fight. Those fights you mentioned were mostly fueled by real animosity, maybe that's what's missing in some of the recent ones Phone Post 3.0
7/28/13 12:08 PM
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caposa
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Batarnaque - I'll always wonder why the fuck some fighters don't even try to go all-in in the last 2 minutes of a fight when it's crystal clear they're losing the fight on points.

It happens A LOT... I can't even begin to really understand the psychology of fighting, but it seems to me like a major weakness to overcome... being afraid to get KTFO while bum rushing is the only reason I can think of, but you're losing the fight anyway!

Isn't that exactly what Condit did to Rory ? If I remember correctly, Rory was arguably winning the first two and got TKO'd by Condit in madman mode at the very end, knowing he had to do anything to get the W. Now that's a fucking fighter spirit.

Everyone doesn't have the killer instinct of Carlos Condit. Ellenberger learned that when he fought him too.

7/28/13 12:31 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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caposa -
Batarnaque - I'll always wonder why the fuck some fighters don't even try to go all-in in the last 2 minutes of a fight when it's crystal clear they're losing the fight on points.

It happens A LOT... I can't even begin to really understand the psychology of fighting, but it seems to me like a major weakness to overcome... being afraid to get KTFO while bum rushing is the only reason I can think of, but you're losing the fight anyway!

Isn't that exactly what Condit did to Rory ? If I remember correctly, Rory was arguably winning the first two and got TKO'd by Condit in madman mode at the very end, knowing he had to do anything to get the W. Now that's a fucking fighter spirit.

Everyone doesn't have the killer instinct of Carlos Condit. Ellenberger learned that when he fought him too.

You could make an argument nobody is as relentless as Condit, maybe Nick Diaz is the only other. Ellenberger just doesn't show up sometimes too. I don't understand why,.he's so much better when he goes for the kill in the first round. Phone Post
7/28/13 12:32 PM
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gokudamus
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is blaf projecting onto rory? why does he assume rory wants to fight gsp so bad? hasnt rory said the exact opposite?

7/28/13 12:54 PM
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SKARHEAD
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B_Goetz - Diaz has no answer for that.

No answer for boring fights ?Sure he does...It's called engaging without fear and throwing strikes that do damage coupled w/ a sick ground game.
7/28/13 12:58 PM
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redeye2000
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lol all of this!

do you think this shit would have been accepted when pride was around haha.

why do you think the yellow and red card were in place?

this fight was even more boring then a Klitschko fight and that is saying something.

these guys aint fighters anymore. they are just athlethes. maybe they should all been send to cuba and see how they live over there. maybe then the regain some of that fighters spirit.

that said the woman brought it as usual. they fight exciting and try to finish the fights. but most men, they are terrible. what the fuck are they trying to do?


7/28/13 2:35 PM
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dstiff
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Robbie Lawler vs Rory MacDonald
7/28/13 2:44 PM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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redeye2000 - lol all of this!

do you think this shit would have been accepted when pride was around haha.

why do you think the yellow and red card were in place?

this fight was even more boring then a Klitschko fight and that is saying something.

these guys aint fighters anymore. they are just athlethes. maybe they should all been send to cuba and see how they live over there. maybe then the regain some of that fighters spirit.

that said the woman brought it as usual. they fight exciting and try to finish the fights. but most men, they are terrible. what the fuck are they trying to do?



2 out of 3 fighters in pride were cans so there is no reason to stall or be careful. This was a case of 2 guys respecting each other too much. Throw a can in there for either of them and it never looked like that. Jake did suck though, he should be cut for that performance
7/28/13 3:00 PM
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jerdney
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grimer - Spoken like a guy who isn't a fighter and has no understanding of what's on the line for these guys.

Jake froze because every time he even thought about pulling the trigger he was eating a jab. Should he have made some adjustments? Sure, but it's not always that easy.

Rory could have been more aggressive also but at the same time, what he was doing was working and he probably knew that opening it up to finish Jake was the only thing that was going to give Jake a chance to land a big punch which after the first round, was clearly his only shot at winning the fight.

Dana wants to sell tickets but these fighters don't have an obligation to put their best interests second in order to serve Dana's agenda. The minor leagues are littered with guys who lost their way out of the UFC by choosing entertainment over effectiveness. Sometimes great fighters cancel out each others strengths and you get a fight like we saw last night. That's just part of the fight game. If you can't accept it then perhaps it's time to go watch something else.
Well said Phone Post
7/28/13 3:37 PM
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Chiron
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There's a lot of ridiculous thoughts in the MMA community among the fighters and the fans. There are some seriously bad excuses for fights like this.

Been a long time fan of both Ellenberger and Rory, but they sucked last night. No MMA fan should be defending either one. I blame them both, but Rory more, because he's the one that got to walk away with a W and who fought how he intended to. That was his gameplan. Jake knows he fucked up. Rory doesn't see what was wrong with what he did - just like the other fighters from camps like Tristar and Jackson's who "fight" like that.

People say the fighters job is to win. That's true in a sense, but all the fighters know that there comes a point that that's a cop out excuse for performing poorly in victory. This is a sport, but it's a sport that's heavily based on fighting even though we all know the rules are too distorted. If a fighter's going into the cage with a "I'll just outpoint him" strategy then he's not really trying to fight. He's trying to win on rule alienation and a perversion of the spirit of the sport. Can it get him the W? Sure, and more easily than fighting with bad intentions as an MMA fighter should. However, if you're a fan and you defend that then you're being played for a fool. All you're doing is encouraging more Rory vs Ellenberger, Guida vs Maynard, and Johnson vs Torres type fights to happen. You're spitting on the whole point of the sport in the first place, just as the pointfighters do. Winning by decisions, especially in lackluster fashion where no real threatening was done, is supposed to be the exception, not the rule, and not the focus of any strategy. MMA was never meant to be about that. So unless you want it to get further perverted from its true martial aspects like wrestling, judo, TKD, boxing, and point-karate have, you need to avoid that pointfighter-defending mindset.

Also, don't act like that was a technical fight. There is a terribly ignorant philosophy going around that fights that go to decisions or where little action is happening are somehow technical and fights where guys get KO'd aren't. The guys defending them want to believe they're somehow more evolved when they're really not - just like the idiotic movie critic who thinks any foreign film is awesome and any film with some CGI automatically sucks. That is the stupidest point of view to ever enter into MMA. Pointfighting takes LESS skill & strategy, not more. What Rory did last night isn't technically brilliant, it's strategically lazy. It shows less technique and strategy to outpoint someone than it does to go out there and use skills to finish them. Any fool can come with a "Well, we're going to sit back and use your length to jab at him when there's an opening" kind of gameplan. It's a shame some of you have bought into the myth of it being technical. Zahabi should be ashamed of himself. Rory said it himself, he waited for openings and jabbed. If anyone thinks that's somehow highly technical or highly strategic then it's no wonder many non-fans think MMA fans are stupid. Just like GSP using his skills to score points but not really threaten anymore (see Jack Slack and the Gracie Breakdown on GSP vs Diaz for proof from people I'm sure you trust more). Does it work? Sure. It's easier too. Is it more strategic/technical than using skills to go for the finish? Hell no! It's the lazy/safe/diffident way out. How about using that jab to create openings for more damaging attacks to actually put someone away? How about using the ground game to work hard for subs like Weidman does instead of being content with position and "looking busy". The fact is any strategy focused on just outpointing with little chance of threatening is less strategic than using those skills and positions to put the opponent away.

Under current rules, a fighter can get a win by doing what Rory did last night, and Zahabi is the biggest encourager of lazy/safe/boring fight strategies of any coach in the sport - look how reserved he's made GSP, Rory, Torres, Bocek, & Carmont. But YOU as a fan don't have to support it. It's not in your best interest and they're showing they don't give a damn about the fans when they fight like that, so you shouldn't be defending them. You're in a one-sided relationship. Coaches and fighters can only get away with uneventful strategies if you are foolish enough to support it. If more fans would wake up and criticize camps that do that, the sport would quickly move in a more positive direction.

^ Thanks if you read that whole book.

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