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UnderGround Forums >> How to effectively keep the distance on your feet?


7/30/13 7:40 AM
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SubbedZER0
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Answers can be from anyone but preferably from those who have fought before.

What I'd like to hear about: Staying behind the jab, effectively using the long right hand and cross, footwork, and anything I haven't mentioned thats important to keeping the distance or can be used to keep the distance on your feet.

Enjoy ya Tuesday and thanks for any answers.

7/30/13 8:38 AM
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supercan
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SEE: Rory McDonald vs. Jake Ellenberger Phone Post
7/30/13 11:07 AM
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for a basic jab and footwork lesson with Ellenberger really not effectively striking his way in.

I don't mean to be dis-respectful, but definitive answers only please. If its going to be a reference to a fight. Please give me some info on what i'm looking for in that fight.

7/30/13 11:32 AM
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Skpotamus
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There were some vids that Hackleman did on crossfit.com where he talked about chucks takedown defense strategy. Here are the links to the TD defense ones:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense1Distance.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense2Level.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense3Hips.wmv

My experience is that these things generally help:
Keep your hips back and down and your fist in their face (makes any shot attempts long range and harder to get into the clinch)
Try to never be directly in front of your opp by using lateral and diagonal steps.
Keep on the balls of your feet and keep them moving.
Have great cardio because keeping your distance means a LOT more movement.
Strike in the clinch while trying to move out of it to the side (not backwards),
strike immediately after the clinch escape before your opp can reset into their stance.
Learn how to block while moving (most people duck their heads, raise their arms and plant their feet to block punches).
Pick away with single shots and try to wear your opponent down (don't use little pitter patter punches and kicks, but don't set down to load up on them either, try to stay relaxed so you can still impact your strikes while moving).
Never move straight forwards, always use a diagonal so even though you're coming in with strikes, you are changing the angles so a shot or clinch attempt will be more difficult.

See Carlos Condit vs Nick Diaz for a good example of keeping away while throwing shots. Carlos never really threw anything hard in that fight, even though he had some great opportunities to.

Hope this helps.
7/30/13 11:52 AM
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deadlysyn
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Foot work is key. The better you foot work the more untouchable you become. Also as mention cardio is money because it allows you to stay active and use speed to go in and out.

Something I learned from Dominick Cruz once is he said you should shadow box the same way you fight same speed and power. 99% of people don't shadow box this way they do it in a more relax warm up fashion because its hard and exhausting and people don't want to get tired right before they really get into their training. But Cruz does and it befits him greatly as you can see in his fight how good his cardio and speed is.

For those that are more lazy the Karate stance works well but the key to it is being able to switch stances on the fly to. Phone Post 3.0
7/30/13 1:13 PM
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Shadowboxing is very important you're right. I believe in never teaching myself to throw a flawed punch, ever....ever.

I also like one of the things that Jens Pulver said deadlysyn, he claimed "You can make every work out easy or you can make every work out hard, its your choice. Theres absolutely no such thing as an easy workout"

7/30/13 1:16 PM
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Skpotamus - There were some vids that Hackleman did on crossfit.com where he talked about chucks takedown defense strategy. Here are the links to the TD defense ones:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense1Distance.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense2Level.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense3Hips.wmv

My experience is that these things generally help:
Keep your hips back and down and your fist in their face (makes any shot attempts long range and harder to get into the clinch)
Try to never be directly in front of your opp by using lateral and diagonal steps.
Keep on the balls of your feet and keep them moving.
Have great cardio because keeping your distance means a LOT more movement.
Strike in the clinch while trying to move out of it to the side (not backwards),
strike immediately after the clinch escape before your opp can reset into their stance.
Learn how to block while moving (most people duck their heads, raise their arms and plant their feet to block punches).
Pick away with single shots and try to wear your opponent down (don't use little pitter patter punches and kicks, but don't set down to load up on them either, try to stay relaxed so you can still impact your strikes while moving).
Never move straight forwards, always use a diagonal so even though you're coming in with strikes, you are changing the angles so a shot or clinch attempt will be more difficult.

See Carlos Condit vs Nick Diaz for a good example of keeping away while throwing shots. Carlos never really threw anything hard in that fight, even though he had some great opportunities to.

Hope this helps.

Voted up, this is exactly along the lines of what i'm looking for.

The Diaz v Condit fight really caught my eye because of Carlos' exit strategy when Nick would look to pin him down for an exchange. It seemed he was lengthening out his strikes and ducking right out under the elbow on the angle of his choice.

7/30/13 1:27 PM
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my man Naderhood, where you at with the knowledge right now?

7/30/13 1:34 PM
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supercan
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I posted from my phone quickly because the fight from Saturday is fresh in my head, and I have been working with my fighters all week in classes on footwork and "range" control based on that fight. From drills to dynamic drilling to sparring, we work on that stuff over and over.

That being said, I wasn't able to provide my opinion and exhaustive footwork, jabbing, and distance control "lesson" at length due to being on my phone and busy, yet still thought enough of your post, because I appreciate when people are hungry to actually learn the arts and the sport, that I took the time to point out something that is worthy of watching repeatedly, and is a motion picture lesson on a good portion of your question. So, don't be an ingrate and a dick, and presume to tell people on a public forum that are attempting to help you how they should and should not respond.
7/30/13 2:08 PM
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Edited: 07/30/13 2:08 PM
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I def told you that you shouldn't respond at all, and I definitely called you names too.

Or I told you I didn't know what to look for past a jab and footwork if all you're going to do is point me to a fight. I'll just point you to Guillermo Rigondeaux and tell you to learn defensive boxing.........its a nice start, if you have an idea how to watch him.

I respect your profession, I respect your students and you coming in with the intentions of only trying to help me learn. Calm down with the name calling, and you don't have to give me any lessons you don't want to.

 

7/30/13 2:27 PM
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I should also add I do apologize you were offended by the post and do wish your fighters luck in the future supercan

7/30/13 2:31 PM
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zedlepln
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Edited: 07/30/13 2:34 PM
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You should always be drilling your footwork and range when you do pad/mitt work. It drives me bananas when students plant themselves inside range to drill combos. Set up outside of range, move in as you strike, and break at the end of every set. Breaking should be at an angle, not straight back. Yes, it's a whole lot more energy, but that's another plus.

Also, do footwork drills with a partner instead of solo. Keep distance as you move and pivot.

There are a number of techniques for striking when moving away that can be drilled, too, but I don't know of any online.

One more tidbit is that if you want to follow your jab, you can step heel first (more power transfered on the cross). If you need jab and evade, stay on the balls of your feet and open your hips more (alla GSP).

7/30/13 2:39 PM
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zedlepln
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Shadowboxing is very important you're right. I believe in never teaching myself to throw a flawed punch, ever....ever.

I also like one of the things that Jens Pulver said deadlysyn, he claimed "You can make every work out easy or you can make every work out hard, its your choice. Theres absolutely no such thing as an easy workout"


I trained with a Bellator vet that liked to shadow box in pairs, which helps emphasize footwork and distance. Interesting "game" twists can be used in this drill.

7/30/13 4:29 PM
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supercan
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I should also add I do apologize you were offended by the post and do wish your fighters luck in the future supercan


I apologize for being a little strong in my language. I was annoyed at your response when instead of just posting "in" or "sub" or "later", I chose to post something that was a very good, recent example of something to learn the very thing you are asking about. Especially when I planned to take the time respond more thoroughly later. No big deal. There are plenty of people on here that have and will post similar responses to what mine would have been anyway.

I'll simply add that one of the mantra's in our gym is "The person that wins the battle taking place from the waist-down (i.e. footwork, distance control, ring generalship, etc.) will typically win the fight taking place from the waist-up." Win the positional battle, the angle battle, and the footwork battle, you'll most likely win the fight.
7/30/13 5:17 PM
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deadlysyn
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Yeah we usually do shadow boxing in pairs it's better that way and its also good for practicing distance and footwork Phone Post 3.0
7/30/13 6:10 PM
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supercan - 
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I should also add I do apologize you were offended by the post and do wish your fighters luck in the future supercan


I apologize for being a little strong in my language. I was annoyed at your response when instead of just posting "in" or "sub" or "later", I chose to post something that was a very good, recent example of something to learn the very thing you are asking about. Especially when I planned to take the time respond more thoroughly later. No big deal. There are plenty of people on here that have and will post similar responses to what mine would have been anyway.

I'll simply add that one of the mantra's in our gym is "The person that wins the battle taking place from the waist-down (i.e. footwork, distance control, ring generalship, etc.) will typically win the fight taking place from the waist-up." Win the positional battle, the angle battle, and the footwork battle, you'll most likely win the fight.

And a great mantra it is. If I had more time on the forum, maybe i'd have been more aware of your skills and understood the info was coming or if I was more experienced outside the boxing i've done I'd have been able to take more things effectively from the RoryvJake fight. I didn't mean to dismiss the fight as much as I wanted to convey that was all I knew in terms of effectiveness and technique there.

Are you a believer of the 80/20 rule? (80% of the offense from the leading side/20% from the rear foot or hand?)

7/30/13 6:15 PM
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Also a thanks to ZedLepln and some of my favorite footwoork/angles/punching vids. Vids are from ChinaBoxing's YouTube and Title Boxing DVD with trainers like Roach, Fenech, and Campbell

7/30/13 6:18 PM
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Edited: 07/30/13 6:20 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slhIIc4ORFs

Freddie on boxing footwork (embedding disabled), the first video is Advanced technique in dealing with southpaws and angles and such.

7/30/13 6:18 PM
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Avoiding kicking range.

7/30/13 6:19 PM
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some of the initials in footwork

7/30/13 6:30 PM
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Some good examples of footwork, steps and angles, feints and the jab (and with Bernard the right hand) are Bernard Hopkins, Lyoto Machida, Carlos Condit, Bang Ludwig, Roufus instructional vids are awesome, and GSP is becoming one of the pioneers in dressing up the jab for MMA in my opinion.

7/30/13 11:03 PM
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Il Duce
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Cool thread. Thanks to all the info. Phone Post 3.0
7/30/13 11:17 PM
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FedorsAbs
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Sub Phone Post
7/31/13 12:14 AM
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big thanks to everybody whos answered so far, especially instructors and fighters..and just generally more knowledge-able people than me. No free lessons asked. Just appreciate all the tips being given to anyone and myself that is interested.

thanks again.

7/31/13 2:05 AM
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Ramy Daoud
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Ttt Phone Post 3.0

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