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UnderGround Forums >> Ben Askren vs these UFC Welterweights


8/2/13 3:24 PM
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D241
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When you realize the competition Askren has faced, his opponents haven't had a wrestling background to stop Ben's strength in wrestling.

 

Watching that video, it raised a BUNCH of questions for me regarding Askren's mma abilities. There's no question Askren is a great wrestler, but Askren hasn't faced any wrestlers the level of guys like Koscheck/Ellenberger/GSP, he hasn't faced jiu jitsu guys like Nick Diaz/Carlos Condit/Gunnar/Shields.

 

In a 5 round fight, there is plenty of times for guys like Koscheck/Hendricks to land a big shot in the stand up after stopping a takedown or getting back to their feet. In a 5 round fight, there is plenty of opportunities to throw up a submission.

 

Based on what I've seen in his mma fights and the level of skill his opponents had, the BEST I can have Askren going against those 10 UFC WW's, is 3-7.

 

I could see Askren wrestling Jake Ellenberger and winning 3 or 4 rounds of a 5 round fight.

I can see Askren using his wrestling to control T-Wood, and perhaps doing the same for Gunnar, although both Gunnar and T-Wood's sub game could cause problems for Askren.

 

Thanks for everyone's participation, i really like how you guys were specific on the win's/losses.

8/2/13 3:32 PM
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D241
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Granted that's Marcello Garcia, this still shows how succeptable(?) Ben is when going against someone with better than average grappling(ie Gunnar/Maia/Diaz)

8/2/13 3:33 PM
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OGT
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MaliceX -
Aaron Becker - Demian Maia 1-0
Johnny Hendricks 1-1
Josh Koscheck 1 -2
Nick Diaz 2-2
Carlos Condit 2-3
Jake Ellenberger 2-4
George St Pierre 2-5
Gunnar Nelson 3-5
Jake Shields 4-5
Tyron Woodley 5-5

This is exactly how I see it...5-5.
You guys think he beats maia huh? Interesting. Phone Post
8/2/13 3:41 PM
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D241
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Serious question.

 

Who is the most accomplished wrestler Ben Askren has faced in mma, and what are his wrestling credentials?

 

I ask this because 1-I seriously don't know, and

2-I assume those credentials aren't even close to the wrestling credentials of the wrestlers in the UFC ww division that I mentioned.

 

If number 2 is accurate, I think anyone saying he goes better than 3-7 needs to go into detail how Askren wins a 5 round fight against these higher skilled opponents.

8/2/13 3:44 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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4-6 or 5-5 Phone Post
8/2/13 3:52 PM
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jagen
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tommypatron - 7-3
GSP Hendricks and Maia would beat him. In a three round fight I think he would go 9-1 maybe 10-0 Phone Post 3.0

Same here, although I think he goes 7-3 if they were 3 rounders as well.
8/2/13 3:55 PM
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aarick161
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Maia would be his worst matchup. I think he'd go 6-4. Phone Post 3.0
8/2/13 4:48 PM
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OGT
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aarick161 - Maia would be his worst matchup. I think he'd go 6-4. Phone Post 3.0
This. Multiple people saying he beats maia makes me question how closely they follow mma Phone Post
8/2/13 5:45 PM
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12SixElbow
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D241 - 

Serious question.

 

Who is the most accomplished wrestler Ben Askren has faced in mma, and what are his wrestling credentials?

 

I ask this because 1-I seriously don't know, and

2-I assume those credentials aren't even close to the wrestling credentials of the wrestlers in the UFC ww division that I mentioned.

 

If number 2 is accurate, I think anyone saying he goes better than 3-7 needs to go into detail how Askren wins a 5 round fight against these higher skilled opponents.


Askren's 9th MMA fight was against D1 wrestler Jay Hieron... Hierson also had 3x as many MMA fights, and 4x as many years training as Askren did. Hieron was suspended / kicked out of school but was a junior college champion before transferring to a bigger school.

Koreshkov isn't a horrible grappler..., 2010 World Combat Games Pankration Gold Medalist
International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles
2010 FILA Pankration World Championships Senior Gold Medalist.

 

You mentioned "Koscheck/Ellenberger/GSP"

Jake Ellenberger had 9 matches his entire wrestling career....

GSP is the best WW in the world, and KOS does have a great wrestling pedigree, but 7 men have beaten him, those include Paulo Thiago, Robbie Lawler, Thiago Alves, Johnny Hendricks, Drew Fickett, etc... Kos is 2 - 3 in his last 5... I'd pick Askren over him any day.

 

Askren has 12 fights, and keeps getting better....

 

8/2/13 5:56 PM
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SHOGUN250
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I have him taking very close decisions over Koscheck, Condit, Shields, and Woodley.

I think Maia, Hendricks, Ellenberger, GSP, and Nelson all find a way to finish him.

Unsure about Diaz.
8/2/13 6:01 PM
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12SixElbow
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Askren is, IMO a much better grappler than people are giving him credit for.

Even D241, bringing up Gunnar, Diaz, and Maia.

The only year Gunnar did anything in grappling was 2009... He took a year off fighting and only did BJJ.

In 2009, while Askren was 2009 ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championships Quarterfinalist, 2009 Grappling World Championships Senior No-Gi Gold Medalist, FILA World Team Trials Senior No-Gi Winner (2009), 2009 Hargobind International Senior Freestyle Gold Medalist, 2009 Sunkist Kids International Open Senior Freestyle Silver Medalist, he also fought and won, 3x in MMA.

Thats 3 professional MMA fights, and 5 major grappling tournaments in 12 months.

Imagine what Askren could have done if he only focused on BJJ?

 

 

 

 

 

8/2/13 6:10 PM
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OmgItsTheWams
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6-4/7-3 Phone Post
8/2/13 7:35 PM
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D241
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12sixElbow has been one of my favorite posters, but his 2 post on page 3 are great examples as to why.

 

I believe many people are giving Askren too much credit based on what they've seen vs who it was against.

 

But that was my belief BEFORE I read 12sixElbow's post.  He makes a darn good point. So good, that instead of my original pick of going 3-7, I think it's fair to say he could go 5-5 or even 6-4.

 

I have a hard time giving him wins over GSP/Hendricks/Maia though.

 

12-6=Thanks again dude. I absolutely LOVE having my point of view influenced by quality intelligent post such as yours.  Not too many times my opinion gets changed just off a couple points, but you've succeeded, good job.

8/2/13 7:44 PM
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Cdawg007
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7-3

I have him losing to:

1. GSP
2. Carlos Condit
3. Damien Maia
8/2/13 7:44 PM
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mcq
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Got him losing to:
GSP
Hendricks
Maia
Diaz
but still voted for him going 5 - 5 because I may very well be drinking the kool aid and he has yet to be tested by UFC WWs.
8/2/13 7:52 PM
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mcq
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What kind of chin does he have? Serious questions as I dont know.

In this last fight he took what looked to be a solid ass knee to the grill and smiled... to me it looked like a genuine "I'm having fun" smile, not the "shit, I just got clocked now I'm going to try to kick your ass" smile that we often see.
8/2/13 7:54 PM
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mcq
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Also, I would really like to see him against higher-level BJJ guys just for the scrambles, positions and transitions alone.... some of my favorite parts of a fight.
8/2/13 7:59 PM
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Entreri
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5-5 probably, yes, Rory beats him as well.
8/2/13 11:20 PM
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D241
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What wrestlers of Askren's calibur has Rory fought?

8/2/13 11:39 PM
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SickEyeDiaz
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D241 - 

What wrestlers of Askren's calibur has Rory fought?


None that are even close...but he fights in the UFC so he is automatcally 100x better.

/sarcasm

8/2/13 11:42 PM
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tdunning
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SickEyeDiaz - 
D241 - 

What wrestlers of Askren's calibur has Rory fought?


None that are even close...but he fights in the UFC so he is automatcally 100x better.

/sarcasm


What fighters as well rounded as Rory has Askren fought?

It goes both ways
8/2/13 11:46 PM
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CRE
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I can see it now, Askren with a big smile almost laughing taking pictures for the press row as they drag your favorite UFC hypejob out of the cage.
8/2/13 11:53 PM
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Unseen
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tdunning - 
SickEyeDiaz - 
D241 - 

What wrestlers of Askren's calibur has Rory fought?


None that are even close...but he fights in the UFC so he is automatcally 100x better.

/sarcasm


What fighters as well rounded as Rory has Askren fought?

It goes both ways

No.  No it does not.

8/2/13 11:54 PM
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InvisibleControl
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Shields, Maia, Condit and Diaz are the only ones I think have a chance. And I don't like shields and diazs chances.

I think he would beat everyone besides condit and maybe even condit depending on how it goes down. Maia has a good chance to sub him but I don't know... Phone Post 3.0
8/2/13 11:59 PM
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SickEyeDiaz
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tdunning - 
SickEyeDiaz - 
D241 - 

What wrestlers of Askren's calibur has Rory fought?


None that are even close...but he fights in the UFC so he is automatcally 100x better.

/sarcasm


What fighters as well rounded as Rory has Askren fought?

It goes both ways

Exactly. That's why I want Askren to be in the UFC.

All this talk about competition is fine, but I want to see the best vs. the best, and that can only happen if they are all in the same place. Get Dana and his Goodfellas out of the mix and maybe we can see the matchups we want to see :)


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