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8/7/13 12:05 PM
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Mark Hunter
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LittleKang - 
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Hecklah - 
r_o_y - He got cut cause he looked like crap.



When is the gracie family going to except that their jiu-jitsu won't get them through high level mma?



I still respect them but a lot of them act like fighters are supposed to lay on the ground and offer thier limbs for sacrifice.


This is not 1993 anymore.
This Vtfu Phone Post 3.0

Let's see . . . Renzo Gracie has two current UFC champs, and one former champ (ie, GSP, Weidman, Edgar) training under his team right now. Is there another team in MMA that has two UFC champs right now?
They arent solely training with renzo. Renzo/Serra are just they're jits gym.

And yes other coaches have had two champs at one time. Cain and DC at AKA, jones and gsp at Jackson's, chute box had wandy and shogun, MFS had hughes sylvia and Franklin, etc etc Phone Post

OK, so let's revisit this: In response to the comment, "this is not 1993 any more," I point out that Renzo Gracie has two current champs and one recent former champ. You response is that Renzo/Serra are only their BJJ coaches, and then you point out other gyms that have FORMERLY had two champs.

First of all, the Renzo/Almeida/Serra connection with Weidman and Edgar includes Longo as their striking coach. The Renzo/Danaher connection with GSP goes a lot deeper than BJJ also, because Danaher is one of GSP's closest mentors when it comes to fight strategy (all of these fighters have commented on these things many times). Renzo has almost an entire FLOOR of his academy dedicated to MT/striking, and has had striking and wrestling coaches with his team/academy for YEARS (literally). What was that about "1993" again?

Finally, the list of teams with former multiple champs is irrelevant, since I didn't say no other team has EVER had multiple champs. I pointed out that Renzo has two CURRENT champs - again, in response to the notion that Renzo is somehow "outdated" in the fight game, which no one that is an educated fan would even bother saying - and no other camp that I'm aware of has two CURRENT champs. Any notion that Renzo Gracie is living back in 1993 is a little uneducated.

I hope that clears it up.
8/7/13 12:07 PM
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Mark Hunter
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ranier wolfcastle - 

dana will sue him for a rillion dollars


I admit it . . . I laughed.

*hides face in embarrassment*
8/7/13 12:08 PM
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Mark Hunter
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r_o_y - He got cut cause he looked like crap.



When is the gracie family going to except that their jiu-jitsu won't get them through high level mma?



I still respect them but a lot of them act like fighters are supposed to lay on the ground and offer thier limbs for sacrifice.


This is not 1993 anymore.
This Vtfu Phone Post 3.0

Let's see . . . Renzo Gracie has two current UFC champs, and one former champ (ie, GSP, Weidman, Edgar) training under his team right now. Is there another team in MMA that has two UFC champs right now?

Nova Unao (spelling?)

Jose Aldo and Renan Barao. :)

----
Scrap Pack - Ceasar Gracie's
Nick Diaz WW SF
Jake Shields MW SF
Gil Melendez LW SF

Shit, you're right . . . I forgot about Aldo and Barao's connection to NU.
8/7/13 12:12 PM
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RollHighAllDay
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Age old argument only brought out by trolls to ruffle the feathers of bjj guys. Any wrestler who had no other training other than wrestling gets tapped out by a skinny hipster jiu-jitsu guy. It's been proven, time after time. Ask any wrestler who went to bjj class for the first time.
8/7/13 12:47 PM
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Phisher
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DarkHelmet - For the last time ...... BJJ is not fighting Phone Post 3.0
Yeah, it's not fighting but it beats every other fighting in a pure martial art contest. Makes sense.

I agree though, that this isn't 1993, and everyone knows BJJ now, you can't just except to walk in and outclass people on the ground even if you're the best BJJ competitor alive. Roger admitted it himself when he said that only like ten percent of sport BJJ is applicable to MMA.

Personally, I think Roger is one of the only non-annoying Gracies and I hate to see his family members make him look bad by trying to fight his battles for him. Phone Post 3.0


beats every other fighting in a pure martial art contest?

How you figure that? Phone Post



see UFC 1-4 when it was vs

Really? Where were the high level sambo players or judokas or guys from any non-BJJ submission grappling discipline in the first four UFCs? Taktarov didn't show up until UFC 5, which is after people are started cross training and Royce fled the competition.

The early UFCs were BJJ vs. a bunch of clueless strikers and one dimensional wrestlers.

 

And RE Zuffa being biased in favor of striking, no shit. That's what sells tickets. People aren't lining up in droves to pay for sport BJJ or any type of pure grappling competition are they?

 

No disrespect to the role the Gracie family played in promoting submission grappling and MMA, but the facts are the facts.

8/7/13 4:35 PM
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AokiPants
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RollHighAllDay - Age old argument only brought out by trolls to ruffle the feathers of bjj guys. Any wrestler who had no other training other than wrestling gets tapped out by a skinny hipster jiu-jitsu guy. It's been proven, time after time. Ask any wrestler who went to bjj class for the first time.
This. Phone Post 3.0
8/7/13 5:29 PM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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RollHighAllDay - Age old argument only brought out by trolls to ruffle the feathers of bjj guys. Any wrestler who had no other training other than wrestling gets tapped out by a skinny hipster jiu-jitsu guy. It's been proven, time after time. Ask any wrestler who went to bjj class for the first time.

True, but a good wrestler with 6-12 months of submission defense would dominate a 1 dimensional BJJ fighter more often than not. The Gracie family practiced a buy now pay later lifestyle. They used up all of their credit (BJJ at the exclusion of everything else) and had to pay later (being dominated because they refused to evolve)
8/7/13 6:38 PM
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Mark Hunter
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
RollHighAllDay - Age old argument only brought out by trolls to ruffle the feathers of bjj guys. Any wrestler who had no other training other than wrestling gets tapped out by a skinny hipster jiu-jitsu guy. It's been proven, time after time. Ask any wrestler who went to bjj class for the first time.

True, but a good wrestler with 6-12 months of submission defense would dominate a 1 dimensional BJJ fighter more often than not. The Gracie family practiced a buy now pay later lifestyle. They used up all of their credit (BJJ at the exclusion of everything else) and had to pay later (being dominated because they refused to evolve)

Wait . . . you're saying a wrestler with submission defense (a 2 dimensional fighter) will dominate a 1 dimensional fighter? Sharp as a tack!!
8/7/13 8:00 PM
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Looney Ronulan Paultard
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cawsie77 -
UGCTT_ScarecrowRio - Still waiting for Riff Raff Gracie Phone Post 3.0
Hiff Haff Phone Post 3.0
One can hope Phone Post 3.0
Please happen.. Phone Post 3.0
8/7/13 9:38 PM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
RollHighAllDay - Age old argument only brought out by trolls to ruffle the feathers of bjj guys. Any wrestler who had no other training other than wrestling gets tapped out by a skinny hipster jiu-jitsu guy. It's been proven, time after time. Ask any wrestler who went to bjj class for the first time.

True, but a good wrestler with 6-12 months of submission defense would dominate a 1 dimensional BJJ fighter more often than not. The Gracie family practiced a buy now pay later lifestyle. They used up all of their credit (BJJ at the exclusion of everything else) and had to pay later (being dominated because they refused to evolve)

Wait . . . you're saying a wrestler with submission defense (a 2 dimensional fighter) will dominate a 1 dimensional fighter? Sharp as a tack!!
Wait, the fuck,..... By God I think he's got it! Phone Post 3.0
8/7/13 9:44 PM
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BigEyedFish
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DarkHelmet - For the last time ...... BJJ is not fighting Phone Post 3.0
Yeah, it's not fighting but it beats every other fighting style in a pure martial art contest. Makes sense.

I agree though, that this isn't 1993, and everyone knows BJJ now, you can't just except to walk in and outclass people on the ground even if you're the best BJJ competitor alive. Roger admitted it himself when he said that only like ten percent of sport BJJ is applicable to MMA.

Personally, I think Roger is one of the only non-annoying Gracies and I hate to see his family members make him look bad by trying to fight his battles for him. Phone Post 3.0

this
8/7/13 10:26 PM
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Animal Mother
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Mark Hunter -
ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
RollHighAllDay - Age old argument only brought out by trolls to ruffle the feathers of bjj guys. Any wrestler who had no other training other than wrestling gets tapped out by a skinny hipster jiu-jitsu guy. It's been proven, time after time. Ask any wrestler who went to bjj class for the first time.

True, but a good wrestler with 6-12 months of submission defense would dominate a 1 dimensional BJJ fighter more often than not. The Gracie family practiced a buy now pay later lifestyle. They used up all of their credit (BJJ at the exclusion of everything else) and had to pay later (being dominated because they refused to evolve)

Wait . . . you're saying a wrestler with submission defense (a 2 dimensional fighter) will dominate a 1 dimensional fighter? Sharp as a tack!!
Yeah he is. He just said a wrestler who knows bjj will beat a bjj guy who knows no wrestling. We've got a genius on our hands here folks. Phone Post 3.0
8/7/13 10:49 PM
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ausgepicht
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GrayKickass -

The Gracie family can be kind of annoying a lot of the time.

Lets not bitch too much as we wouldn't be where we are without the involvement of this family.

Instrumental in developing BJJ, MMA/ NHB, the UFC > being a little annoying Phone Post 3.0

So let's give them free passes to be assholes?

No.

Anyhow, Rillion? Rillion? They are just making shit up now.

8/8/13 12:39 PM
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ThinkAlpha
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I think a lot of people in this thread may not be informed as to who Rilion Gracie is...

I'm not condoning his statements as Roger did not look all that good in his last fight but Rilion deserves more respect in this thread.

He has coached Damian Maia, Renzo, Roger, Kyra and countless others. He co-founded (if I remember correctly) Gracie Barra and is now the main or one of the main leaders of Gracie Elite. He's been a black belt for 30 years. When Maia and Edgar fought in Houston they came to Rilions game for tune ups. Rickson himself was once quoted in saying that Rilion had the most technical guard in the family.

I don't specifically think Rogers style of Jiu Jitsu is the best for MMA as compared to someone like Jacare's or Maia who is more explosive/athletic Jiu Jitsu but he has had success in MMA with it. It's MMA so the fighter is responsible for being well rounded but to say Rilion doesn't know what he's talking about is absurd. Phone Post 3.0
8/8/13 12:51 PM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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Rumpelstiltskin Gracie tried taking away my first born child unless I guessed his name. Luckily I got it on the third and final try (following Romo and Rocky). He didnt leave though, Humpelstiltskin Gracie hung around, complaining how I would have lost if it wasnt due multiple guesses or something. Phone Post 3.0
8/8/13 7:08 PM
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SKARHEAD
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
RollHighAllDay - Age old argument only brought out by trolls to ruffle the feathers of bjj guys. Any wrestler who had no other training other than wrestling gets tapped out by a skinny hipster jiu-jitsu guy. It's been proven, time after time. Ask any wrestler who went to bjj class for the first time.

True, but a good wrestler with 6-12 months of submission defense would dominate a 1 dimensional BJJ fighter more often than not. The Gracie family practiced a buy now pay later lifestyle. They used up all of their credit (BJJ at the exclusion of everything else) and had to pay later (being dominated because they refused to evolve)

Only if you look at it from a "sport" MMA perspective...in that setting obviously cross trained fighters, who are superior athletes, and know BJJ will dominate them.


but from the perspective of spreading the art as a self defense for normal peoplle (who don't have time to crosstrain striking, conditioning, wrestling, etc)....they will always come out on top....All things being equal, Gracie Jiu Jitsu by itself will normally beat any other art by itself. forget MMA, jiu Jitsu was mrketed to the masses, normal folk as the best single, most practical art to learn if you only have the time to learn one thing. They're still right.



Take into account that not everyone is a super tough, incredibly conditioned, incredibly coordinated super athlete....and Gracie Jiu Jitsu wins again for being the most practical art for normal people like this to learn. The defense against strikes alone and the ability to NOT lose and NOT get your ass kicked and go home to your family alone is worth every penny.
8/8/13 7:19 PM
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Authority Figure
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ThinkAlpha - I think a lot of people in this thread may not be informed as to who Rilion Gracie is...

I'm not condoning his statements as Roger did not look all that good in his last fight but Rilion deserves more respect in this thread.

He has coached Damian Maia, Renzo, Roger, Kyra and countless others. He co-founded (if I remember correctly) Gracie Barra and is now the main or one of the main leaders of Gracie Elite. He's been a black belt for 30 years. When Maia and Edgar fought in Houston they came to Rilions game for tune ups. Rickson himself was once quoted in saying that Rilion had the most technical guard in the family.

I don't specifically think Rogers style of Jiu Jitsu is the best for MMA as compared to someone like Jacare's or Maia who is more explosive/athletic Jiu Jitsu but he has had success in MMA with it. It's MMA so the fighter is responsible for being well rounded but to say Rilion doesn't know what he's talking about is absurd. Phone Post 3.0

His accomplishments don't give him the right to dictate what members of his family can be in the UFC.

 

Nor does it give him the right to not know how to spell "shameful". 

8/9/13 9:10 AM
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Animal Mother
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ThinkAlpha - I think a lot of people in this thread may not be informed as to who Rilion Gracie is...

I'm not condoning his statements as Roger did not look all that good in his last fight but Rilion deserves more respect in this thread.

He has coached Damian Maia, Renzo, Roger, Kyra and countless others. He co-founded (if I remember correctly) Gracie Barra and is now the main or one of the main leaders of Gracie Elite. He's been a black belt for 30 years. When Maia and Edgar fought in Houston they came to Rilions game for tune ups. Rickson himself was once quoted in saying that Rilion had the most technical guard in the family.

I don't specifically think Rogers style of Jiu Jitsu is the best for MMA as compared to someone like Jacare's or Maia who is more explosive/athletic Jiu Jitsu but he has had success in MMA with it. It's MMA so the fighter is responsible for being well rounded but to say Rilion doesn't know what he's talking about is absurd. Phone Post 3.0

His accomplishments don't give him the right to dictate what members of his family can be in the UFC.

 

Nor does it give him the right to not know how to spell "shameful". 

How well can you spell in Portuguese? Phone Post 3.0
8/9/13 9:32 AM
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Alumynabjj
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DarkHelmet - For the last time ...... BJJ is not fighting Phone Post 3.0
Yeah, it's not fighting but it beats every other fighting in a pure martial art contest. Makes sense.

I agree though, that this isn't 1993, and everyone knows BJJ now, you can't just except to walk in and outclass people on the ground even if you're the best BJJ competitor alive. Roger admitted it himself when he said that only like ten percent of sport BJJ is applicable to MMA.

Personally, I think Roger is one of the only non-annoying Gracies and I hate to see his family members make him look bad by trying to fight his battles for him. Phone Post 3.0


beats every other fighting in a pure martial art contest?

How you figure that? Phone Post



see UFC 1-4 when it was vs
It's 2013 though no? Phone Post

Great point Raider. I only train MMA. BJJ is for fags.
8/9/13 9:43 AM
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Alumynabjj
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DarkHelmet - For the last time ...... BJJ is not fighting Phone Post 3.0
Yeah, it's not fighting but it beats every other fighting in a pure martial art contest. Makes sense.

I agree though, that this isn't 1993, and everyone knows BJJ now, you can't just except to walk in and outclass people on the ground even if you're the best BJJ competitor alive. Roger admitted it himself when he said that only like ten percent of sport BJJ is applicable to MMA.

Personally, I think Roger is one of the only non-annoying Gracies and I hate to see his family members make him look bad by trying to fight his battles for him. Phone Post 3.0


beats every other fighting in a pure martial art contest?

How you figure that? Phone Post



see UFC 1-4 when it was vs
I guess that's why college wrestlers are ruling mma right now. Phone Post 3.0

Yes, it's amazing how many wrestlers come straight into the UFC with only wrestling and dominate.

Here is a great example of someone with a low level wrestling background going up against a monster JUDO guy that is world famous on the scene and the wrestling guy just spanking him. Your point is spot on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTm94LbLNQE
8/12/13 1:28 PM
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Mark Hunter
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Edited: 08/12/13 1:29 PM
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Animal Mother - 
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ThinkAlpha - I think a lot of people in this thread may not be informed as to who Rilion Gracie is...

I'm not condoning his statements as Roger did not look all that good in his last fight but Rilion deserves more respect in this thread.

He has coached Damian Maia, Renzo, Roger, Kyra and countless others. He co-founded (if I remember correctly) Gracie Barra and is now the main or one of the main leaders of Gracie Elite. He's been a black belt for 30 years. When Maia and Edgar fought in Houston they came to Rilions game for tune ups. Rickson himself was once quoted in saying that Rilion had the most technical guard in the family.

I don't specifically think Rogers of Jiu Jitsu is the best for MMA as compared to someone like Jacare's or Maia who is more explosive/athletic Jiu Jitsu but he has had success in MMA with it. It's MMA so the fighter is responsible for being well rounded but to say Rilion doesn't know what he's talking about is absurd. Phone Post 3.0


His accomplishments don't give him the right to dictate what members of his family can be in the UFC.



 



Nor does it give him the right to not know how to spell "shameful". 

How well can you spell in Portuguese? Phone Post 3.0

Rilion is the youngest son of Grandmaster Carlos, and has always been around. Watch UFC 1-4, and look to see who is consistently behind Royce rubbing his shoulders on the way to the Octagon in the Gracie Train. Watch the number of Renzo's fights where that same guy's in his corner. Same with Ralph, and Roger. Rilion is well known to have the most technical guard in the Gracie family, and has been a huge influence on GJJ/BJJ.

You don't hear about him as much because he hasn't commercialized his academies or self as much as other family members. It would seem as though most of the BJJ/GJJ critics would respect that, not use is as an excuse to belittle him.

As far as his criticisms, Rilion's been coaching and assessing fighters since far before Dana had even heard of BJJ. So let's don't act like he's not qualified to criticize . . . that's a little bit silly. In the end, I'm sure he was just voicing frustration to Roger being cut prematurely by the UFC.

And do we even know if Rilion is actually the guy who posts under his Twitter name?
8/12/13 1:48 PM
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GSPsShadyHandWraps
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"As far as his criticisms, Rilion's been coaching and assessing fighters since far before Dana had even heard of BJJ. So let's don't act like he's not qualified to criticize . . . that's a little bit silly. In the end, I'm sure he was just voicing frustration to Roger being cut prematurely by the UFC."

Roger got his ass kicked (even on the ground) in his UFC debut so if that is the standard of fighters Rillion has coached, how can you claim he is qualified to criticize Danas decision (who watches better guys than Roger every 2 weeks) ?


8/12/13 1:54 PM
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Lobo8
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Edited: 08/12/13 1:54 PM
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It doesnt matter who Rillion knows or who he trains. His criticism is not valid. Roger Gracie performed horribly in his fight, lost in all aspects, even on the ground. Roger is a high level Bjj guy but that doesnt matter in this issue. He clearly cant hang in the ufc and thats why he was cut.
8/12/13 5:16 PM
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Mark Hunter
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GSPsShadyHandWraps - "As far as his criticisms, Rilion's been coaching and assessing fighters since far before Dana had even heard of BJJ. So let's don't act like he's not qualified to criticize . . . that's a little bit silly. In the end, I'm sure he was just voicing frustration to Roger being cut prematurely by the UFC."

Roger got his ass kicked (even on the ground) in his UFC debut so if that is the standard of fighters Rillion has coached, how can you claim he is qualified to criticize Danas decision (who watches better guys than Roger every 2 weeks) ?



Assuming you're not trolling . . . Roger's not the only guy Rilion has coached, so why would you ever gauge Rilion's qualifications on how one fighter fought on one night? The bottom line is that Roger gassed, and lost. I'm sure Rilion wasn't pleased with Roger's performance.
8/12/13 5:25 PM
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Mark Hunter
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Lobo8 - It doesnt matter who Rillion knows or who he trains. His criticism is not valid. Roger Gracie performed horribly in his fight, lost in all aspects, even on the ground. Roger is a high level Bjj guy but that doesnt matter in this issue. He clearly cant hang in the ufc and thats why he was cut.

So one of Rilion's fighters performs poorly on one night, and Rilion (rather than the fighter who performed poorly) suddenly doesn't have a valid opinion . . . after being involved in vale tudo/NHB/MMA for going on three decades? Would that standard be in place for Gregg Jackson, or Miletich, or other coaches? You're either a teenager, or just a guy that doesn't care for the Gracies.

I'm not sure how long you've followed this sport, but there has been more than one fighter that had a poor first appearance in the UFC and has came back to do just fine. Roger should have never been cut after one fight. He did fine in the first round. He gassed . . . bottom line.

It seemed a little premature to me to cut him after that fight, but that's just one man's opinion. I was surprised that he didn't get one more fight before being cut. If he showed up and gassed again, then Dana would have known that it wasn't a fluke. In the meanwhile, the entire BJJ world would probably have paid for the PPV to see him fight.

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