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UnderGround Forums >> FIghters refusing to cut more weight when over


8/5/13 8:00 PM
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me101
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This has happened a couple of times in the last 2 weeks. 

When a fighter misses weight they are given 2 hours to hit weight, when a fighter is very over  (recent examples Lineker/Means) they are refusing to even try basically giving themselves a huge advantage. 4-5pounds extra in the lower weights is substantial.

I think there should be a graded system of penalties, currently it doesn't matter if you miss weight by a 1lb or 5 lbs it's still 20% fine. So the guys who are 4-5 pound over are just saying I'll take the 20% fine and have an advantage in the fight rather than do anything in those 2 hours. I feel over 3lbs you should have a higher % penalty to ensure they are motivated to try during the 2 hour period. 

Fighters that hit weight shouldn't be put at this kind of  disadvantage, your opponent should be obliged in some way to get closer in weight during those 2 hours. 

8/5/13 8:09 PM
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MMASMG
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agree not sure if it played any part in my last fight but the guy weighed in at 129.8 and Bellator told me he wasn't cutting anymore about 2 hrs before we hit the scales.
8/5/13 8:09 PM
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Agnt
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From Means' camp, they said that they had a rough cut and it was putting a toll on his body. I mean he's over 6'2 and cutting to 155. I think that 20% of someone's purse is enough of a punishment.
8/5/13 8:14 PM
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jerdney
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Agnt - From Means' camp, they said that they had a rough cut and it was putting a toll on his body. I mean he's over 6'2 and cutting to 155. I think that 20% of someone's purse is enough of a punishment.
Yeah, I was thinking of that fight too. I think, of a guy misses weight that badly, he should be forced to move up in weight. Phone Post
8/5/13 8:14 PM
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mdavid01
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Agree with the concept. Folks who know they are over by a lot have no incentive to try. They should lose an extra 5% for every pound over 2% they cannot lose.
It's a fighters job to make weight, punish those who don't do their job and give that money to the fighter who makes weight.
8/5/13 8:18 PM
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DrPhil
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Problem with graded punishment for missing weight is that promotions would be accused of pressuring people into cutting weight that may be dangerous for them.

Severe weight cuts are bad news.

I agree though that it's unfair on their opponent, but what promotion is going to take the risk of pressuring a 4lb heavy fighter into trying to cut more weight and they end up getting KO'd and get a brain injury or something which is blamed on dehydration from the cut? Phone Post
8/5/13 8:19 PM
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me101
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Agnt - From Means' camp, they said that they had a rough cut and it was putting a toll on his body. I mean he's over 6'2 and cutting to 155. I think that 20% of someone's purse is enough of a punishment.

But it's a huge difference to miss weight by 1lb or 5lb but the fine's the same 

My biggest issue is when guys are way over they don't even try and cut more giving them a true advantage in the cage.

The guy who's 3lbs over works hard for 2 extra hours and may still be 1lb over and gets fined 20%, currently the guy who's 5lbs over just says screw it I'm not trying to cut any more and starts re-hydrating I feel that's really unfair on the guy who made weight.

Without a graded fine system the guys who are way over have no motivation to even try  

8/5/13 8:22 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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me101 -
Agnt - From Means' camp, they said that they had a rough cut and it was putting a toll on his body. I mean he's over 6'2 and cutting to 155. I think that 20% of someone's purse is enough of a punishment.

But it's a huge difference to miss weight by 1lb or 5lb but the fine's the same 

My biggest issue is when guys are way over they don't even try and cut more giving them a true advantage in the cage.

The guy who's 3lbs over works hard for 2 extra hours and may still be 1lb over and gets fined 20%, currently the guy who's 5lbs over just says screw it I'm not trying to cut any more and starts re-hydrating I feel that's really unfair on the guy who made weight.

Without a graded fine system the guys who are way over have no motivation to even try  

Can't the fighter who made weight demand his opponent only weighs a certain amount the next day? Phone Post
8/5/13 8:22 PM
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armbarseverywhere
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Weight cutting really doesn't benefit the athlete in the end. Trying to keep your body from doing what it naturally wants to do (use and store fat) you're forcing your entire body on a cellular level to battle catabolic states. NOT GOOD.
8/5/13 8:23 PM
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Mertvaya Ruka
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fighters who misses weight already have a huge stigma attached to it, it is a huge sign of neglect.

But I agree, fighters can abuse this.

Anthony Johnson come to mind
8/5/13 9:49 PM
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me101
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
me101 -
Agnt - From Means' camp, they said that they had a rough cut and it was putting a toll on his body. I mean he's over 6'2 and cutting to 155. I think that 20% of someone's purse is enough of a punishment.

But it's a huge difference to miss weight by 1lb or 5lb but the fine's the same 

My biggest issue is when guys are way over they don't even try and cut more giving them a true advantage in the cage.

The guy who's 3lbs over works hard for 2 extra hours and may still be 1lb over and gets fined 20%, currently the guy who's 5lbs over just says screw it I'm not trying to cut any more and starts re-hydrating I feel that's really unfair on the guy who made weight.

Without a graded fine system the guys who are way over have no motivation to even try  

Can't the fighter who made weight demand his opponent only weighs a certain amount the next day? Phone Post

No, pretty sure it just becomes a catch weight bout. 

 

8/5/13 9:59 PM
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drewmorais
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If I'm over weight I feel I owe it to my opponent to go and make the weight just out of respect to him and his camp Phone Post
8/5/13 10:20 PM
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herwil10
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
me101 -
Agnt - From Means' camp, they said that they had a rough cut and it was putting a toll on his body. I mean he's over 6'2 and cutting to 155. I think that 20% of someone's purse is enough of a punishment.

But it's a huge difference to miss weight by 1lb or 5lb but the fine's the same 

My biggest issue is when guys are way over they don't even try and cut more giving them a true advantage in the cage.

The guy who's 3lbs over works hard for 2 extra hours and may still be 1lb over and gets fined 20%, currently the guy who's 5lbs over just says screw it I'm not trying to cut any more and starts re-hydrating I feel that's really unfair on the guy who made weight.

Without a graded fine system the guys who are way over have no motivation to even try  

Can't the fighter who made weight demand his opponent only weighs a certain amount the next day? Phone Post

The best example of this I can think of is when Vitor Belfort would only fight Anthony Johnson if he came in at 205 at noon the day of their fight after Johnson missed the MW limit by a ton the day before.
8/5/13 10:49 PM
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Bigdoug924
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me101 -

This has happened a couple of times in the last 2 weeks. 

When a fighter misses weight they are given 2 hours to hit weight, when a fighter is very over  (recent examples Lineker/Means) they are refusing to even try basically giving themselves a huge advantage. 4-5pounds extra in the lower weights is substantial.

I think there should be a graded system of penalties, currently it doesn't matter if you miss weight by a 1lb or 5 lbs it's still 20% fine. So the guys who are 4-5 pound over are just saying I'll take the 20% fine and have an advantage in the fight rather than do anything in those 2 hours. I feel over 3lbs you should have a higher % penalty to ensure they are motivated to try during the 2 hour period. 

Fighters that hit weight shouldn't be put at this kind of  disadvantage, your opponent should be obliged in some way to get closer in weight during those 2 hours. 

That's a great idea, VU Phone Post 3.0
8/6/13 3:03 AM
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McCorkledbyMartialArtsMixed
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drewmorais -  If I'm over weight I feel I owe it to my opponent to go and make the weight just out of respect to him and his camp Phone Post

its too bad UG favorite paul daley doesn't share the same respect and sportsmanship.

dude has missed 6 times and refused to even make an attempt to cut anything at least once, if not all 6 times.

fucking pathetic and I hope hes never in the UFC cause of that not the koschek thing.
8/6/13 4:06 AM
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Ajm1218
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Whether it's disrespectful and advantageous to miss weight depends on the situation. Tim Means took his last fight on short notice. There are a lot of fighters out there that blow up too much between fights to make it back to fighting weight on 3 weeks notice. The UFC and his opponent Danny Castillo may have known this going into the fight. He essentially had 2 week training camp, tough to lose a significant amount of weight in 2 weeks.
8/6/13 4:07 AM
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Ajm1218
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Edited: 08/06/13 4:13 AM
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And apparently my computer loves this thread, multiple posts
8/6/13 4:07 AM
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Ajm1218
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Edited: 08/06/13 4:13 AM
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Hey there
8/6/13 4:07 AM
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Ajm1218
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Edited: 08/06/13 4:14 AM
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Me again
8/6/13 4:07 AM
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Ajm1218
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Edited: 08/06/13 4:14 AM
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This is awkward
8/6/13 1:23 PM
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me101
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Ajm1218 - Whether it's disrespectful and advantageous to miss weight depends on the situation. Tim Means took his last fight on short notice. There are a lot of fighters out there that blow up too much between fights to make it back to fighting weight on 3 weeks notice. The UFC and his opponent Danny Castillo may have known this going into the fight. He essentially had 2 week training camp, tough to lose a significant amount of weight in 2 weeks.

It's not really the missing weight, it's the refusal to even try and lose more during the extra 2 hours given. 

Under the current rules it's irrational for a fighter in Mean's position to even try and get the weights closer (5lbs is impossible in 2 hours) he may as well not even try. With a graded penalty system he may have tried cutting more during the 2 hours reaching 156/7 making it a much fairer fight. 

 

8/6/13 1:33 PM
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Leck Brosnar
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Very good thread OP, voted up.

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