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BJJGround Forum >> No gi grading


8/13/13 4:32 PM
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Session
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green_machine - A lot of people that live in cities don't own a vehicle or don't drive it to class. I'd find it annoying to haul my gi and belt with me and not use them. And then have to put my drenched no-gi gear into my bag with a clean gi then go home and wash them all. Phone Post 3.0

Most Gi's come with a seperate bag. Not putting your wet gear in a seperate bag before it goes in the gear bag is gross by itself.
8/13/13 5:44 PM
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demandango
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Tomato Can - Yea the fact that the IBJJF does no-gi tournaments based on belt rank but many schools do not do no-gi belt promotion is a bit of a problematic disparity.
No it isn't. You should have to train both for rank. Phone Post 3.0
8/13/13 5:45 PM
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Tomato Can
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joshjitsu - 
Tomato Can - 
joshjitsu - 
Tomato Can - That seems completely ridiculous. How do they know what equipment to bring?
Bring your gym bag, put a gi in it, along with a pair of shorts and rash guard. It actually works quite well. Phone Post 3.0

No offense but that's pretty nutty and I would not train at your school specifically for that reason.

Not everyone is going to fit everywhere. I may lose you but I have a ton of people who would otherwise not be training in a gi doing it (and vice versa), and I feel like I am producing some really good well rounded Gi/NoGi grapplers. Also I would like to note that my student retention rate is really good.

If it works that's awesome, I just don't think I could handle not having any control of what sort of class I'm going to.

Different strokes and all that.
8/13/13 5:50 PM
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Tomato Can
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demandango - 
Tomato Can - Yea the fact that the IBJJF does no-gi tournaments based on belt rank but many schools do not do no-gi belt promotion is a bit of a problematic disparity.
No it isn't. You should have to train both for rank. Phone Post 3.0

That's not the problem I'm referring to. I'm referring to the problem of a guy training only no-gi for years and getting very good, but being unable to compete in an IBJJF no-gi tournament (or worse, competing in a white belt division) because he's unable to achieve any rank without gi training.
8/14/13 1:55 AM
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Magic Mago
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Tomato Can -
demandango - 
Tomato Can - Yea the fact that the IBJJF does no-gi tournaments based on belt rank but many schools do not do no-gi belt promotion is a bit of a problematic disparity.
No it isn't. You should have to train both for rank. Phone Post 3.0

That's not the problem I'm referring to. I'm referring to the problem of a guy training only no-gi for years and getting very good, but being unable to compete in an IBJJF no-gi tournament (or worse, competing in a white belt division) because he's unable to achieve any rank without gi training.
Can still compete at adcc trials, grapplers quests, naga and several other tournaments, ibjjf gets crazy stupid with the rules anyway. Phone Post
8/14/13 8:40 AM
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green_machine
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green_machine - A lot of people that live in cities don't own a vehicle or don't drive it to class. I'd find it annoying to haul my gi and belt with me and not use them. And then have to put my drenched no-gi gear into my bag with a clean gi then go home and wash them all. Phone Post 3.0

Most Gi's come with a seperate bag. Not putting your wet gear in a seperate bag before it goes in the gear bag is gross by itself.
I can't put my dirty gear in the same bag and clean it later? I have to carry around two bags now? My point was having to lug around a gi every day that I might not even use would drive me crazy. Phone Post 3.0
8/14/13 5:02 PM
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Akston
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Every school should recognize Nogi skill level somehow. It is another sport with skill levels. I love gi but holding onto it like a security blanket is ridiculous. Bjj guys are turning into tkd guys. Phone Post
8/16/13 7:13 AM
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acamp76144
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It's also bizarre when experienced no-gi guys go along to seminars by visiting BBs (which are invariably gi based) as white belts. Interesting rolls with surprised looking blue belts ensue Phone Post 3.0
8/16/13 11:21 AM
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MTH
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The only purpose of a rank is (a) as an affirmation from your instructor that you're doing well and (b) as a categorization method for competitions, seminars, classes, or any other scenario where folks need to be split up by skill level.

Beyond that, belts and rank are meaningless.

To me, that means that those that teach gi BJJ should promote their no-gi students using the BJJ belt system--but to "no-gi" rank. In other words, you could be promoted to a "no-gi purple belt."

This would alleviate the issues raised here about tournaments or seminars where high level no-gi guys go as "white belts."

Maybe put a stripe down the middle of the belt or something to indicate that it's not quite a standard BJJ belt, but that the overall submission grappling skill level is as ranked. Phone Post 3.0
8/16/13 11:25 AM
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joshjitsu
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MTH - The only purpose of a rank is (a) as an affirmation from your instructor that you're doing well and (b) as a categorization method for competitions, seminars, classes, or any other scenario where folks need to be split up by skill level.

Beyond that, belts and rank are meaningless.

To me, that means that those that teach gi BJJ should promote their no-gi students using the BJJ belt system--but to "no-gi" rank. In other words, you could be promoted to a "no-gi purple belt."

This would alleviate the issues raised here about tournaments or seminars where high level no-gi guys go as "white belts."

Maybe put a stripe down the middle of the belt or something to indicate that it's not quite a standard BJJ belt, but that the overall submission grappling skill level is as ranked. Phone Post 3.0
With competitions segregating divisions by rank, I think it definitely adds another reason for rank.

I kinda like NoGi rankings, I don't think they should transfer to gi though. Phone Post 3.0
8/16/13 11:38 AM
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GrahamJ
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Subzero90 - 
Sgt. Slaphead - No-gi is a part of fundamental jiujitsu skill, to not do it is a disservice to the student. To only do no-gi is a disservice to the art/ No-gi only, is not BJJ....it can be a of jiujitsu, but IMHO it is not BJJ. Same as there is no such thing a no-gi judo. JMHO.

For several years after I made blue belt (w/gi) I didn't care, I was only really interested in learning fighting skill using jiujitsu as a foundation on which I could add other skills/techniques. Then I figured out that the gi offered the same benefits and much broader useful skill, and made training interesting and enjoyable again.

Honestly the gi offers no benefit to a persons nogi game, other than lacklustre over hooks and under hooks.  If a person spent 100% of their time doing nogi they'll inevitably have a better nogi game than if they split time.  They are different sports.


how many yrs will it take edddie to prove that point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HChzRB8h6LU

"It is crucial to train with the gi to have the finest technique."

- Marcelo Garcia, the only man to have won The ADCC no gi submission grappling tournament four times.
8/16/13 11:44 AM
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MTH
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joshjitsu - 
MTH - The only purpose of a rank is (a) as an affirmation from your instructor that you're doing well and (b) as a categorization method for competitions, seminars, classes, or any other scenario where folks need to be split up by skill level.

Beyond that, belts and rank are meaningless.

To me, that means that those that teach gi BJJ should promote their no-gi students using the BJJ belt system--but to "no-gi" rank. In other words, you could be promoted to a "no-gi purple belt."

This would alleviate the issues raised here about tournaments or seminars where high level no-gi guys go as "white belts."

Maybe put a stripe down the middle of the belt or something to indicate that it's not quite a standard BJJ belt, but that the overall submission grappling skill level is as ranked. Phone Post 3.0
With competitions segregating divisions by rank, I think it definitely adds another reason for rank.

I kinda like NoGi rankings, I don't think they should transfer to gi though. Phone Post 3.0

I agree.

Under my proposed set up, somebody who is for example a "no-gi purple belt" would be a "no-gi purple belt" for ANY no-gi purposes (class, competition, etc.), but would also go with the "purple belts" for gi purposes in any activity in which rank mattered (typically, competition).  They would not, however, be a "BJJ purple belt" just generally. 

In other words, they'd be a "no-gi purple belt" all of the time who, on the off chance he wanted to do a gi tournament, would compete in the purple belt division.  But they wouldn't be a "BJJ purple belt"--he'd be a "no-gi purple belt" competing in the purple belt division of a gi tournament.

Hopefully that makes sense.

The bottomline is that I think it's unfair to beginner gi students when a high level no-gi guy gets to be a "white belt" at gi tournament.  I think when that happens, it should be the no-gi guy (rather than some hapless white belts) who has to deal with perhaps not being on quite the same level as his competition.  If you're a "no-gi purple belt" who for some reason wants to compete in a gi, then you should enter the purple belt division.  Maybe have the belt look different somehow--a stripe down the middle or some such thing.  Whether you have problems dealing with all of the grips is your problem.   

8/16/13 12:30 PM
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FirstScratch
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I don't see a whole lot of advanced nogi only guys competing in gi. Nogi is their game so they usually stick to that. Sure there are some exceptions, but not enough to re-tool the system for. All in all I believe the system recognized by the majority of tournaments is fair to the majority of the participants. Phone Post
8/16/13 12:49 PM
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GrahamJ
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Are there any strictly no gi guys who are at the top of the no gi game - i.e., they consistently medal at no gi pan Ams/worlds...?
8/16/13 3:42 PM
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The Elastic Assassin
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Sgt. Slaphead - No-gi is a part of fundamental jiujitsu skill, to not do it is a disservice to the student. To only do no-gi is a disservice to the art/ No-gi only, is not BJJ....it can be a of jiujitsu, but IMHO it is not BJJ. Same as there is no such thing a no-gi judo. JMHO.

For several years after I made blue belt (w/gi) I didn't care, I was only really interested in learning fighting skill using jiujitsu as a foundation on which I could add other skills/techniques. Then I figured out that the gi offered the same benefits and much broader useful skill, and made training interesting and enjoyable again.
This post illustrates everything that is wrong with bjj and the people in it..... Phone Post
8/16/13 3:46 PM
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The Elastic Assassin
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"Id there isn't a gi its not bjj"....

Good lord Phone Post
8/16/13 4:31 PM
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Subzero90
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My honest observation as a nogi guy Im excited to compete against gi guys in nogi because they have typically lacklustre over and under hooks, and they are slow and very rarely explosive.  They just make the ideal opponent for myself.

8/16/13 4:42 PM
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dannybjj
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The Elastic Assassin -
Sgt. Slaphead - No-gi is a part of fundamental jiujitsu skill, to not do it is a disservice to the student. To only do no-gi is a disservice to the art/ No-gi only, is not BJJ....it can be a of jiujitsu, but IMHO it is not BJJ. Same as there is no such thing a no-gi judo. JMHO.

For several years after I made blue belt (w/gi) I didn't care, I was only really interested in learning fighting skill using jiujitsu as a foundation on which I could add other skills/techniques. Then I figured out that the gi offered the same benefits and much broader useful skill, and made training interesting and enjoyable again.
This post illustrates everything that is wrong with bjj and the people in it..... Phone Post
And your post illustrates ignorance imo. Not everyone that trains bjj can be lumped into the same category. Carlson's guys trained gi, no gi, and vale tudo. I believe every ufc champion it's ranked in gi bjj. An opportunity to get on the mats is valuable. Phone Post
8/16/13 6:49 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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The Elastic Assassin - 
Sgt. Slaphead - No-gi is a part of fundamental jiujitsu skill, to not do it is a disservice to the student. To only do no-gi is a disservice to the art/ No-gi only, is not BJJ....it can be a of jiujitsu, but IMHO it is not BJJ. Same as there is no such thing a no-gi judo. JMHO.

For several years after I made blue belt (w/gi) I didn't care, I was only really interested in learning fighting skill using jiujitsu as a foundation on which I could add other skills/techniques. Then I figured out that the gi offered the same benefits and much broader useful skill, and made training interesting and enjoyable again.
This post illustrates everything that is wrong with bjj and the people in it..... Phone Post

explain.

is not the history of BJJ one of GI/no-gi, vale tudo/SD and sport? that's the way I learned it. maybe your instructor knows more than those I learned from.


to only do no-gi is grappling is not the martial art/system of BJJ....sounds like the sport of submission wrestling.
8/16/13 7:03 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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dannybjj - 
The Elastic Assassin -
Sgt. Slaphead - No-gi is a part of fundamental jiujitsu skill, to not do it is a disservice to the student. To only do no-gi is a disservice to the art/ No-gi only, is not BJJ....it can be a of jiujitsu, but IMHO it is not BJJ. Same as there is no such thing a no-gi judo. JMHO.

For several years after I made blue belt (w/gi) I didn't care, I was only really interested in learning fighting skill using jiujitsu as a foundation on which I could add other skills/techniques. Then I figured out that the gi offered the same benefits and much broader useful skill, and made training interesting and enjoyable again.
This post illustrates everything that is wrong with bjj and the people in it..... Phone Post
And your post illustrates ignorance imo. Not everyone that trains bjj can be lumped into the same category. Carlson's guys trained gi, no gi, and vale tudo. I believe every ufc champion it's ranked in gi bjj. An opportunity to get on the mats is valuable. Phone Post

I never met/trained under Carlson, but let's use him as an example because he is well known and respected.



those who have trained under him......what would or what do you think if someone told him "dis GI is de boolsheet! De fight in de zhoozhitsu is boolsheet to!"?
8/18/13 10:25 AM
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CJJScout
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Once a year somebody gets their panties in a wad over this issue and a new thread pops up.

Everyone has their opinions, nothing will ever be resolved.
8/18/13 3:28 PM
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checkuroil
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CJJScout - Once a year somebody gets their panties in a wad over this issue and a new thread pops up.

Everyone has their opinions, nothing will ever be resolved.
It will when ibjjf makes a ruling Phone Post 3.0
8/18/13 5:02 PM
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angrypirate
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^what a clusterf*ck waiting to happen. think its bad trying to get your belt verified? think about guys trying to get their no gi rank verified when they have an instructor who has no formal rank in bjj. I suppose it will be overlooked...for a nominal fee.
8/18/13 5:56 PM
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Hunter V
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GrahamJ - 
12 - 
Subzero90 - 
Sgt. Slaphead - No-gi is a part of fundamental jiujitsu skill, to not do it is a disservice to the student. To only do no-gi is a disservice to the art/ No-gi only, is not BJJ....it can be a of jiujitsu, but IMHO it is not BJJ. Same as there is no such thing a no-gi judo. JMHO.

For several years after I made blue belt (w/gi) I didn't care, I was only really interested in learning fighting skill using jiujitsu as a foundation on which I could add other skills/techniques. Then I figured out that the gi offered the same benefits and much broader useful skill, and made training interesting and enjoyable again.

Honestly the gi offers no benefit to a persons nogi game, other than lacklustre over hooks and under hooks.  If a person spent 100% of their time doing nogi they'll inevitably have a better nogi game than if they split time.  They are different sports.


how many yrs will it take edddie to prove that point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HChzRB8h6LU

"It is crucial to train with the gi to have the finest technique."

- Marcelo Garcia, the only man to have won The ADCC no gi submission grappling tournament four times.

and he also advocates for his students to train 50% gi, 50% no gi so what was the point again?
8/18/13 5:59 PM
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Hunter V
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GrahamJ - Are there any strictly no gi guys who are at the top of the no gi game - i.e., they consistently medal at no gi pan Ams/worlds...?

Beyond some 10th planet guys that have done well, nope. And that is mainly as if you want to do those you have to have verified bjj rank by a recognized 2nd degree black belt or up. So there is no opportunity for someone who really just does no gi only to be able to go in to test things out.

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