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UnderGround Forums >> When Chael hip tossed shogun...


8/19/13 5:46 PM
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Wasa-B
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Matrixkick - Just to clarify


Hip Toss ^^^



Lateral drops ^^^ Phone Post 3.0

To clarify even further: the first one is a haraigoshi in judo which is more a sweeeping hip than a hip toss though similar of course.

A hip toss is more getting under the other guys hips and lifting the guy over. Same same but a bit diff.
8/19/13 5:52 PM
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Wasa-B
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Animal Mother - 
Matrixkick - Just to clarify


Hip Toss ^^^



Lateral drops ^^^ Phone Post 3.0
Hate to be that guy, but the first wasn't a hip toss, it was an O Guruma (sp)

The second is a lateral drop

And the third is a foot sweep. Phone Post 3.0

And ill raise your hate to be the guy 1 more ;)

The first is closer to a haraigoshi than oguruma though i also hate this judo tech naming piss contests where we're splitting hairs.

The 3rd (maia/chael) is both a lateral and a sweep (like a sasae) but maia gets under and lifts chael which is more like a like lat drop than a sasai where its more a spin but we have to keep in mind techs in comp can be a bit of a diff techs, they dont fall into 1 classification.in my judo days, we always used to say "i got him with a sorta ____, sorta ____."
8/19/13 5:52 PM
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Wasa-B
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btw gifs of both chaels and shoguns tds would be sweet
8/19/13 5:54 PM
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Letibleu
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Edited: 08/19/13 5:56 PM
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BELLY TO BELLY

:)

8/19/13 5:55 PM
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thebigsexybeast
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What a great fucking card that was...! and props to everyone posting gifs and dropping knowledge, this is what I came to the UG for in the first place and what I believe the UG should be about. Thanks to everyone Phone Post
8/19/13 6:18 PM
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Wasa-B
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just to add to that weidman clip, keep in mind that is a picture perfect textbook display/demo, you do not always have to toss the guy perfectly like that and its a pretty high level wrestling (also judo) move that isnt something beginners can normally do...esp the over the top toss which weidman does when he falls back slowly then BOOM.

You can still get your hips underneathe and/or use your opponents momentum like Alcatara/Faber (though Alcantara still got pretty underneathe Faber).

If youtube some sasae tsurikomi ashi's in judo for example, you can see how you can still throw the guy by spinning him around without necessarily getting under your opponent though it still helps and of course in MMA, there's no gi to help your turning of your opponent but the motion of a sasae can still be done with the over/under weidman shows there.
8/19/13 6:55 PM
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Kings21
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Didnt Jones do something similar to Bonnar?
8/19/13 7:02 PM
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Hunter V
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mestregruber - Maia's throw was a hiza guruma, I believe.

nope, hiza has the rotation point at uke's knee. That def was a sasae action instead.
8/19/13 7:08 PM
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Mdson
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Gangster toss, IMO.
8/19/13 8:02 PM
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Wasa-B
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Kings21 - Didnt Jones do something similar to Bonnar?

Sure did.
8/19/13 8:07 PM
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Wasa-B
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Hunter V - 
mestregruber - Maia's throw was a hiza guruma, I believe.

nope, hiza has the rotation point at uke's knee. That def was a sasae action instead.

sorry but this is where it always comes down to splitting hairs imo. we're talking about techniques with the same fundamentals and mechanics with just slight differences in where a foot is placed. there are always overlaps with techniques and too much "nope, wasnt this, it was this" stuff on the ug imo.

technically speaking since maia's leg wasnt blocking the knee, it wasnt technically a hiza (knee) guruma (wheel) but then again, technically speaking, you do not drop to your back like that in a sasae either.
8/19/13 8:08 PM
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kungfugrip
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was about to say it looked a lot like maia takedown vs chael, but already posted
8/19/13 8:14 PM
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voorhees
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Isnt this what Cyborg tried against Gina but ended up throwing her on top of herself?

I also remember a dude named Rob Smith hitting this against Rampage in KOTC back in the day.
8/19/13 8:15 PM
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Chemmy
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Glad I clicked on this thread.
8/19/13 8:20 PM
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Wasa-B
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voorhees - Isnt this what Cyborg tried against Gina but ended up throwing her on top of herself?

I also remember a dude named Rob Smith hitting this against Rampage in KOTC back in the day.

I recall that Gina ended up on top but dont remember exactly how that transpired. I wouldnt get so hung up on the names when you clinch someone and try to lift and turn, spin, trip, etc them though. There are many ways to misthrow someone. Okami recently had a few against Belcher but Belcher kept on going to the guillotine, failing and then giving up position.
8/19/13 8:26 PM
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Wasa-B
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One thing to keep in mind in terms of misthrows is that that is the risk when you clinch and drop to your back. Like in that Weidman clip, that throws depends on the huge power rotation Weidman does as he drops. You can see how easy it is to miss the rotation, just look at that Lindland/Vitale clip or Arona/Shogun or Okami/Belcher.

Front to front is usually safer than when you turn your back to throw someone but it depends...you give up your back the most on armthrows/ippon seoinages. It all depends how you position your head, arms, back on a throw and then it depends how far you get, how you land.

This is the difference in judo. In judo, if you are counterered, you only score if you get countered to your back. But in if you roll thru on your throw (throw you opponent on your back but end up on yours as you roll thru, you still score and may even get ippon). But in wrestling, and BJJ, position AFTER the throw is more important than the throw itself.

This is where judo is a bit like point karate in that point karate is all about the first strikes, who lands first and your position, follow up etc is not relevent because the play is over once the first strike is made.
8/19/13 8:57 PM
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Hunter V
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Wasa-B - 
Hunter V - 
mestregruber - Maia's throw was a hiza guruma, I believe.

nope, hiza has the rotation point at uke's knee. That def was a sasae action instead.

sorry but this is where it always comes down to splitting hairs imo. we're talking about techniques with the same fundamentals and mechanics with just slight differences in where a foot is placed. there are always overlaps with techniques and too much "nope, wasnt this, it was this" stuff on the ug imo.

technically speaking since maia's leg wasnt blocking the knee, it wasnt technically a hiza (knee) guruma (wheel) but then again, technically speaking, you do not drop to your back like that in a sasae either.

agreed, hence why I said it was more a sasae action. When bodies are tumbling most throws turn into half variations of multiple throws and that is dependent on the positioning of the guy being thrown.
8/19/13 9:00 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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Wasa-B -
voorhees - Isnt this what Cyborg tried against Gina but ended up throwing her on top of herself?

I also remember a dude named Rob Smith hitting this against Rampage in KOTC back in the day.

I recall that Gina ended up on top but dont remember exactly how that transpired. I wouldnt get so hung up on the names when you clinch someone and try to lift and turn, spin, trip, etc them though. There are many ways to misthrow someone. Okami recently had a few against Belcher but Belcher kept on going to the guillotine, failing and then giving up position.
Yeah Okami didn't even care how he got it to the ground cause he's such a better grappler. I think Belcher even got mount and Okami for out of it totally calm in under a minute and back on top. No damage taken. Really underrated performance Phone Post
8/19/13 9:01 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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^^^Got out of it Phone Post
8/19/13 10:09 PM
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Matrixkick
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B/c I like posting these...



The one people were referring to earlier

Phone Post 3.0
8/19/13 10:18 PM
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Matrixkick
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Sorry not sure why some didn't post.


What would this be referred to? Sick toss!

Phone Post 3.0
8/19/13 10:20 PM
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Matrixkick
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Lmao!

Phone Post 3.0
8/19/13 10:21 PM
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Wasa-B
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Matrixkick - Lmao!

Phone Post 3.0

HA! Sweet, esp the QB's reaction.
8/19/13 10:22 PM
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Matrixkick
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I'm assuming a Judo throw of some type. Uchi guchi something or another! Lol jk

Phone Post 3.0
8/19/13 10:23 PM
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Wasa-B
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
Wasa-B -
voorhees - Isnt this what Cyborg tried against Gina but ended up throwing her on top of herself?

I also remember a dude named Rob Smith hitting this against Rampage in KOTC back in the day.

I recall that Gina ended up on top but dont remember exactly how that transpired. I wouldnt get so hung up on the names when you clinch someone and try to lift and turn, spin, trip, etc them though. There are many ways to misthrow someone. Okami recently had a few against Belcher but Belcher kept on going to the guillotine, failing and then giving up position.
Yeah Okami didn't even care how he got it to the ground cause he's such a better grappler. I think Belcher even got mount and Okami for out of it totally calm in under a minute and back on top. No damage taken. Really underrated performance Phone Post

Well, im sure he cared but forgot about the mount, yeah, Okami got out of that pretty cleanly and quickly. Was just pointing out that when you drop, you are at risk of landing on your back at the same time.

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