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UnderGround Forums >> What is Catch Wrestling?


9/13/13 1:41 AM
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armbarseverywhere
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subbed.
9/13/13 4:02 AM
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FullyLoadedFists
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Sub Phone Post
9/13/13 4:41 AM
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Kobayashi
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Lancashire Catch wrestling is an almost lost art, it's still out there in the UK, still mainly around provincial Lancashire but its extremely hard to find. I had a few lessons ten years ago from an Jujitsu (not BJJ) guy who spent a couple of years at the snake put when he was a kid.
As soon as it got out that he was training Lancashire Catch he was faced with such a barrage of hostile questions from the just developing MMA "community " that he decided to pack up and enjoy retirement. I was gutted as I enjoyed it even more than the just and judo I was training at the time,
Real shame . Phone Post 3.0
9/13/13 4:42 AM
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Kobayashi
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Jits not just and pit not put, damn I phone - you get the picture. Phone Post 3.0
9/13/13 7:46 AM
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ChipW
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Happiness Bunny -
ChipW - 
e. kaye -

Pins were part of a specific set of rules for matches a certain period of time.   Not all matches specified pins.

The combatants agreed on the rules.  Like boxing before the rules were consolidated.

You can certainly teach and learn CACC without ever getting into pins.  

For fighting, pins make no sense.

 

 

Oh ok, that makes sense.

I had read Lou theze's book and in one of the early chapters he talks about using the hook to get the pin. Different rule set than would be used today Phone Post

Great book.

Laying flat on your back was a sign that you were submissive and were at the mercy of your opponent. That's why there is such a emphasis on scrambling, bridging and reversals.. to not be on your back.

I like that approach and actually attempt to roll that way in BJJ. I do work bottom side and guard in practice but in tournaments I do everything possible to stay in top position or get back to my feet. I'm lucky to be able to train with good wrestlers as much or more than BJJ though.

Do you catch guys attempt to get back to standing from the bottom a lot or do you look for the reversal more?
From the referee position how do you guys deal with the seatbelt grip when trying to stand? Lots of stuff works well in folkstyle, less in nogi(cause the seatbelt) and almost nothing works for me in the gi Phone Post
9/13/13 7:52 AM
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RileyPust
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It's the blue collar version of 'Pitch Wrestling'.
9/13/13 7:54 AM
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RileyPust
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RileyPust - It's the blue collar version of 'Pitch Wrestling'.

Just realized I missed the obvious 'entry level' joke :(
9/13/13 8:34 AM
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Bobby Lupo
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A marketing term for people selling a white faced martial art.

9/13/13 8:48 AM
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KidJustice
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Go to one of Jake Shannon's Seminars. I went to a Catch Certification of his in 2007 and he puts out a great product. Two days of tough training. He had Dick Cardinal at the one I went to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cardinal

I would love to go to one of the Billy Robinson ones he has been doing.

http://www.scientificwrestling.com/

 

9/13/13 9:36 AM
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Happiness Bunny
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ChipW - 
Happiness Bunny -
ChipW - 
e. kaye -

Pins were part of a specific set of rules for matches a certain period of time.   Not all matches specified pins.

The combatants agreed on the rules.  Like boxing before the rules were consolidated.

You can certainly teach and learn CACC without ever getting into pins.  

For fighting, pins make no sense.

 

 

Oh ok, that makes sense.

I had read Lou theze's book and in one of the early chapters he talks about using the hook to get the pin. Different rule set than would be used today Phone Post

Great book.

Laying flat on your back was a sign that you were submissive and were at the mercy of your opponent. That's why there is such a emphasis on scrambling, bridging and reversals.. to not be on your back.

I like that approach and actually attempt to roll that way in BJJ. I do work bottom side and guard in practice but in tournaments I do everything possible to stay in top position or get back to my feet. I'm lucky to be able to train with good wrestlers as much or more than BJJ though.

Do you catch guys attempt to get back to standing from the bottom a lot or do you look for the reversal more?
From the referee position how do you guys deal with the seatbelt grip when trying to stand? Lots of stuff works well in folkstyle, less in nogi(cause the seatbelt) and almost nothing works for me in the gi Phone Post

From my experience I find it depends on the practitioner. Someone who has strong takedowns will get back to the feet to kind of reset themselves and some just go for the reversal if they are better at sneaky scrambles.

I have seen guys who are great at takedowns break the will of people by taking them down, grinding a bit, attempting a sub, resetting themselves and repeat until the opponent is exhausted.. then comes the nasty finishing hook.

Most people will get the reversal, stay in dominant position and go for the hook.

Watch Barnett competing in Gi-Bjj. He uses some great catch fundamentals with the gi on.

Good to converse with a Bjj guy who seems open to other grappling styles. Everyone can learn something from someone else.
9/13/13 9:53 AM
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gotmysitchpackedbyweidman
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Edited: 09/13/13 9:53 AM
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Every successful Catch guy does a heck of a lot of BJJ. I agree with one of the posters above that we are in the post-catch era, where it is no longer a staple grappling art, and a fighter cannot rely on it on its own to be successful, due to BJJ (and BJJ in MMA especially) still developing new techniques in a more efficient and modern format.

A lot of guys try and shit on BJJ and claim iCatch is a better alternative, when successful guys who have trained Catch are also very good BJJ blackbelts (ala Erik Paulson, Neil Melanson). It is an interesting style, but original Catch is pretty much dead, what you get these days is more of a no gi submission grappling system heavily influenced by the progression of BJJ, with some Catch elements.

9/13/13 10:26 AM
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ChipW
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Thanks happy bunny. I'll check out some of Barnetts matches Phone Post
9/13/13 10:33 AM
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e. kaye
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I do not think that one is better than the other.  They are different.

One or the other just may suit you better.  

For me Catch fits in better with the other martial arts I do, mechanically speaking.

For ChipW:

The way I was taught Catch by Tony is that you wrestle to the top and in the course of the reversal there is usually a hook to be had.   Hence, wrestling into the hook.  

9/13/13 11:00 AM
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gotmysitchpackedbyweidman
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e. kaye - 

I do not think that one is better than the other.  They are different.

One or the other just may suit you better.  

For me Catch fits in better with the other martial arts I do, mechanically speaking.

For ChipW:

The way I was taught Catch by Tony is that you wrestle to the top and in the course of the reversal there is usually a hook to be had.   Hence, wrestling into the hook.  


They are different, but modern Catch has been heavily influenced by BJJ and Catch doesn't exist today as it used to. People often seem to get confused and state that Catch is more 'pure' or it is better for no gi or MMA, when it is largely no gi jiu jitsu with a Catch as Catch can ethos, rather than a system of unadultered Catch wrestling.

 

9/13/13 12:15 PM
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e. kaye
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We will have to agree to disagree.

While there is no doubt plenty of crossover and borrowing back and forth, they are two disctinct styles.

I have done both and know that for sure.  CACC is my grappling style.  There is no BJJ to it.

The big difference is that there is a huge number of BJJ practitioners and only a handful of CACC.

9/13/13 12:24 PM
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gotmysitchpackedbyweidman
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e. kaye - 

We will have to agree to disagree.

While there is no doubt plenty of crossover and borrowing back and forth, they are two disctinct styles.

I have done both and know that for sure.  CACC is my grappling style.  There is no BJJ to it.

The big difference is that there is a huge number of BJJ practitioners and only a handful of CACC.


I can respect that in its inception it started before BJJ, however how many Catch practicioners that are sucessful MMA fighters or MMA coaches are pure Catch and no BJJ? I certainly do not know of any. To me its kind of the similar to when Matt Hughes would claim he had a distinct style of grappling which was different to BJJ when he was trying to hype his fights, yet the majority of his grappling was taugh to him by BJJ blackbelt Jeremy Horn and he was clearly learning and using BJJ.

 

9/13/13 1:07 PM
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e. kaye
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The only one that professes to that is Josh Barnett.  He has done so on this forum.

9/13/13 1:19 PM
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Luv 2 eat ur peach
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The people's elbow but no elbow pads Phone Post 3.0
9/13/13 2:40 PM
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Ninja mon
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Catch wrestling is the real deal folks! I've had the priviledge of training with Erik Paulson and his affiliates in Utah Mushin Self Defense, which run Taking it to the MMAt that is featured in the Catch Wrestling videos on this thread. On top of Catch Wrestling videos they feature all sorts of Erik Paulson, Pedro Sauer, Billy Robinson, and other BJJ videos def check them out on Damagecontrol MMA. Just want to give Brandon Keiser and Brian Yamasaki major props. They're great fighters/trainers and they're gentlemen!
9/13/13 3:21 PM
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DanTheWolfman
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Edited: 09/13/13 4:13 PM
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Some of My Catch Wrestling,RCW-Real Catch Wrestling, Theodore Roosevelt "Man In The Arena" Quote Shirts, Catch-Jitsu Shirts Etc. Available on my site. No offense to any BJJ people, I have Rickson by Armbar T-shirt too, and Respect all arts they are just fun!
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9/13/13 4:56 PM
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snookerbank
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I would say a kimora would be "pain compliance" hard to side step catch wrestling. Phone Post
9/13/13 8:32 PM
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Happiness Bunny
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gotmysitchpackedbyweidman - 
e. kaye - 

I do not think that one is better than the other.  They are different.

One or the other just may suit you better.  

For me Catch fits in better with the other martial arts I do, mechanically speaking.

For ChipW:

The way I was taught Catch by Tony is that you wrestle to the top and in the course of the reversal there is usually a hook to be had.   Hence, wrestling into the hook.  


They are different, but modern Catch has been heavily influenced by BJJ and Catch doesn't exist today as it used to. People often seem to get confused and state that Catch is more 'pure' or it is better for no gi or MMA, when it is largely no gi jiu jitsu with a Catch as Catch can ethos, rather than a system of unadultered Catch wrestling.

 


Bjj takes many things from catch as well. Judo's ne waza is bjj's core.

Grappling has been around forever. We are all doing techniques that some person way back when has done to inflict pain or disable an opponent in some form of combat. We tend to want to say that this technique is bjj or this technique is greco roman or whatever someone has done it before people started to put names to things. Style separates man.. and when people get into an over commercialized martial arts setting they get this sick ego that "Nothing beats what I do! it's the best". That is not being a true martial artist.
9/13/13 8:54 PM
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dking
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what is the difference in approaches to learning/philosophy & practicing catch vs bjj?

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