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UnderGround Forums >> Johny:"GSP threw me under the bus on 'shady' VADA


9/9/13 9:11 PM
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SmackyBear
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12SixElbow - 
SmackyBear - 
12SixElbow - 

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free.

 

So why doesn't Johnny just request this?

Avoids VADA, does extra testing, it's a win win


"We're happy to help you help us, but that's a decision you need to make because you need to fund it."

-Kizer

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/09/hendricks-camp-reps-for-ufc-champ-st-pierre-refused-nsacs-wada-testing

So It's not free, he's saying GSP has to pay. And tell his lawyer not to ask questions about what they're paying for.

His lawyer should know what is on the banned substance list, no?


His lawyer may not know much about anti-doping procedures at all, hence the questions.

But even if he did, the NSAC doesn't always test for everything that's on the WADA banned substance list, even the ones that are detectable, like HGH. Whereas VADA does. Hence, if you want a level playing field, it's reasonable to question how robust the NSAC's enhanced anti-doping program is, since GSP will be paying for it.
9/9/13 9:16 PM
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SmackyBear
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da Vinci 81 - 
SmackyBear -
12SixElbow - 

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free.

 

So why doesn't Johnny just request this?

Avoids VADA, does extra testing, it's a win win


"We're happy to help you help us, but that's a decision you need to make because you need to fund it."

-Kizer

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/09/hendricks-camp-reps-for-ufc-champ-st-pierre-refused-nsacs-wada-testing

So It's not free, he's saying GSP has to pay. And tell his lawyer not to ask questions about what they're paying for.
And not only that, in that article it says Hendricks' camp doesn't feel comfortable with his opponent paying for the testing, and yet they were suggesting WADA be used instead.

But who the hell does Hendricks think would be paying for WADA or any other testing they did? Phone Post 3.0

I know, right.

According to the Hendricks camp:

GSP can't pay for it because it's a conflict of interest for money to change hands.

But GSP also can't let VADA offset the cost because then he's "sponsored" by them.

So logically, they just can't do any tests.


It's patently absurd.
9/9/13 9:18 PM
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MattyECB
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Quite honestly, the more times VADA manages to pop someone, especially a big-name athlete, the more legitimate and accepted they'll become.

If anything I think it'd be more in their interest to sweet talk an athlete then catch him doing drugs.

In the very least it'd make the test look vastly superior to the AC tests that failed to catch GEorges throughout the years, and would become a viable option for other fighters like Georges who want to prove they can overcome the effective test.

I don't get this obsession with GSP being some mastermind who's puppeteering VADA, an independent drug-testing organization that has its history rooted well before they even approached GSP.


It's not even like I think it's impossible for Georges to be using, just that if we consider the majority of athletes to be on some form of PED, or at least accept that a lot of athletes could be on PEDs without getting caught --

why the fuck would you focus on an athlete who's never been popped, always supported stronger testing, just put his money where his mouth is and has never had a team-mate accuse him of using in the past.

The dude gets more shit than Barnette, Bigfoot, Leben and Sonnen combined lol

(nowhere near Vitor/Ubereem levels of hate though lol)
9/9/13 9:23 PM
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MattyECB
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SmackyBear - 
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Devlin -  Is he worried they're going to screw him over or catch him out? Phone Post

It's important to understand the difference between the WADA and VADA.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is a non-profit organization that oversees drug testing for many Olympic and international sports organizations. They were at the forefront of discovery in the EPO scandals that plagued the Tour de France, and the USOC follows WADA recommendations and suspensions.

The Volunteer Anti-Doping Agency is a for-profit company based out of Las Vegas. They have no affiliation with any state or international sanctioning body, and their results are non-binding for any sporting events. The company uses Georges St. Pierre as a "de facto" endorser, providing free testing and splashing GSP all over their product. The VADA has a vested financial interest in GSP both testing clean and being successful in the cage.

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free. GSP's camp reportedly (he said/she said situation) refused, making their association with the VADA seem suspect.

Actually their financial interest would be if GSP didn't test clean thus proving their system is better at detecting. There is no benefit to them financially in GSP testing clean. This business exists to try and catch a higher percentage not a lower percentage

The first time the VADA busts an athlete that is paying them, out of pocket, for testing is the last time an athlete ever uses VADA for testing. Remember, they aren't affiliated with any sanctioning bodies or sports organizations, and their results have no impact on the athletes. It is absolutely in VADA's interest for GSP to test clean. Their "benefit" is VADA employees having a job, plain and simple. They do not exist for any other reason.

This is why anyone that wants true Olympic-style drug testing would go through the NSAC.

They already busted Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto, both of whom paid them. Both of those resulted in cancelled fights.

The testing the NSAC is offering isn't WADA testing just because they use a WADA approved lab. There are legitimate questions to ask about a new program that don't go away just because Kizer got pissy. Do they screen for exogenous testosterone with a 6:1 T:E ratio like the NSAC normally do, a 4:1 ratio like WADA recommends, or do they do an automatic carbon isotope ratio like VADA?

Also, the NSAC program isn't free as you suggested in another post. The testing in the JMM - Bradley fight is costing $35,000 for the promoters. The VADA testing will cost less due to being subsidized by private donations.

Owned, absolutely owned him, and VU for mentioning something I haven't seen anyone else post.

I don't get why ppl act like VADA won't touch someone whose paid them, not only has that happened in the past, but if you don't trust any drug testing organization that's paid by an athlete you're basically saying no one should ever improve upon the AC's abysmal testing.

Someone's gonna have to pay for extra drug testing and I can tell you now it'll be a cold day in hell before the AC or UFC foots this bill -- each for their own obvious reasons.

If an athlete wants to prove a point, and is willing to foot the bill himself, I can't see why that's a bad thing.
9/9/13 9:29 PM
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Mertvaya Ruka
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In an attempt to clear the air, Beaulieu provided the exact email he sent to all parties, on Aug. 17:

“Hello all,

We spoke with Georges today and he took his decision so for your information, Georges has decided that if johny Hendricks does not want to do VADA and prefers your proposed enhanced steroid and drug testing by the Nevada Athletic Commission, Georges will also do it, in addtion to VADA.

I will be out of the office without access to email or voicemail until August 27th but in the meantime, please provide us with all documentation, a detailed invoice and payment instructions necessary to proceed with such enhanced steroid and drug testing by Commission.

Best Regards

Rodolphe”
9/9/13 9:37 PM
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Mertvaya Ruka
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MattyECB - Quite honestly, the more times VADA manages to pop someone, especially a big-name athlete, the more legitimate and accepted they'll become.

If anything I think it'd be more in their interest to sweet talk an athlete then catch him doing drugs.

In the very least it'd make the test look vastly superior to the AC tests that failed to catch GEorges throughout the years, and would become a viable option for other fighters like Georges who want to prove they can overcome the effective test.

I don't get this obsession with GSP being some mastermind who's puppeteering VADA, an independent drug-testing organization that has its history rooted well before they even approached GSP.


It's not even like I think it's impossible for Georges to be using, just that if we consider the majority of athletes to be on some form of PED, or at least accept that a lot of athletes could be on PEDs without getting caught --

why the fuck would you focus on an athlete who's never been popped, always supported stronger testing, just put his money where his mouth is and has never had a team-mate accuse him of using in the past.

The dude gets more shit than Barnette, Bigfoot, Leben and Sonnen combined lol

(nowhere near Vitor/Ubereem levels of hate though lol)

Just look at the list of fighters GSP beat, you answer is right there. For years now, butthurt fans of fighters GSP beat has been calling him a roider, a coward, a cheat, a "point fighter", etc.

How objective these people are you think?
9/9/13 9:37 PM
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SmackyBear
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Mertvaya Ruka - In an attempt to clear the air, Beaulieu provided the exact email he sent to all parties, on Aug. 17:

“Hello all,

We spoke with Georges today and he took his decision so for your information, Georges has decided that if johny Hendricks does not want to do VADA and prefers your proposed enhanced steroid and drug testing by the Nevada Athletic Commission, Georges will also do it, in addtion to VADA.

I will be out of the office without access to email or voicemail until August 27th but in the meantime, please provide us with all documentation, a detailed invoice and payment instructions necessary to proceed with such enhanced steroid and drug testing by Commission.

Best Regards

Rodolphe”

Wow, willing to submit to and pay for both three weeks ago?

Shady as fuck.

-Hendricks camp
9/9/13 9:49 PM
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UGCTT Molsonmuscle360
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SmackyBear - 
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
BackOffWarchild - 
Devlin -  Is he worried they're going to screw him over or catch him out? Phone Post

It's important to understand the difference between the WADA and VADA.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is a non-profit organization that oversees drug testing for many Olympic and international sports organizations. They were at the forefront of discovery in the EPO scandals that plagued the Tour de France, and the USOC follows WADA recommendations and suspensions.

The Volunteer Anti-Doping Agency is a for-profit company based out of Las Vegas. They have no affiliation with any state or international sanctioning body, and their results are non-binding for any sporting events. The company uses Georges St. Pierre as a "de facto" endorser, providing free testing and splashing GSP all over their product. The VADA has a vested financial interest in GSP both testing clean and being successful in the cage.

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free. GSP's camp reportedly (he said/she said situation) refused, making their association with the VADA seem suspect.

Actually their financial interest would be if GSP didn't test clean thus proving their system is better at detecting. There is no benefit to them financially in GSP testing clean. This business exists to try and catch a higher percentage not a lower percentage

The first time the VADA busts an athlete that is paying them, out of pocket, for testing is the last time an athlete ever uses VADA for testing. Remember, they aren't affiliated with any sanctioning bodies or sports organizations, and their results have no impact on the athletes. It is absolutely in VADA's interest for GSP to test clean. Their "benefit" is VADA employees having a job, plain and simple. They do not exist for any other reason.

This is why anyone that wants true Olympic-style drug testing would go through the NSAC.

They already busted Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto, both of whom paid them. Both of those resulted in cancelled fights.

The testing the NSAC is offering isn't WADA testing just because they use a WADA approved lab. There are legitimate questions to ask about a new program that don't go away just because Kizer got pissy. Do they screen for exogenous testosterone with a 6:1 T:E ratio like the NSAC normally do, a 4:1 ratio like WADA recommends, or do they do an automatic carbon isotope ratio like VADA?

Also, the NSAC program isn't free as you suggested in another post. The testing in the JMM - Bradley fight is costing $35,000 for the promoters. The VADA testing will cost less due to being subsidized by private donations.

This guy just dropped a knowledge bomb.
9/9/13 9:51 PM
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Dominique Robinson
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JStrongMMA - Jake Shields: "Something shady..." Phone Post
Lol Phone Post 3.0
9/9/13 9:57 PM
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RileyPust
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It's also important to note that Lamont Peterson's next scheduled fight was to be in Nevada. He failed to show up for an NSAC hearing and his next fight was canceled, he was subsequently stripped of his belt. Mr. Kizer himself told me to look up that particular incident here on the boards a couple days ago.
9/9/13 10:02 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Mertvaya Ruka - 
MattyECB - Quite honestly, the more times VADA manages to pop someone, especially a big-name athlete, the more legitimate and accepted they'll become.

If anything I think it'd be more in their interest to sweet talk an athlete then catch him doing drugs.

In the very least it'd make the test look vastly superior to the AC tests that failed to catch GEorges throughout the years, and would become a viable option for other fighters like Georges who want to prove they can overcome the effective test.

I don't get this obsession with GSP being some mastermind who's puppeteering VADA, an independent drug-testing organization that has its history rooted well before they even approached GSP.


It's not even like I think it's impossible for Georges to be using, just that if we consider the majority of athletes to be on some form of PED, or at least accept that a lot of athletes could be on PEDs without getting caught --

why the fuck would you focus on an athlete who's never been popped, always supported stronger testing, just put his money where his mouth is and has never had a team-mate accuse him of using in the past.

The dude gets more shit than Barnette, Bigfoot, Leben and Sonnen combined lol

(nowhere near Vitor/Ubereem levels of hate though lol)

Just look at the list of fighters GSP beat, you answer is right there. For years now, butthurt fans of fighters GSP beat has been calling him a roider, a coward, a cheat, a "point fighter", etc.

How objective these people are you think?

ALl of this, circle it, and keep quoting it.

9/9/13 11:03 PM
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Honey Badger
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Jone2tone - Whined his way into a title shot. Night as well whine all the way through it. Phone Post 3.0
Whined? Are you fucking high? He EARNED his shot. Pierce, kos, fitch, kampmann, and condit are the top of the welterweight division Phone Post 3.0
9/9/13 11:10 PM
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Fudge Cake
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We already know Kizer is shady. His stance that nothing is wrong with the judging and refs. Etc.

But that's not as relevant as Hendricks now looking like he's trying to avoid or delay being tested. I think his only excuses now are that GSP's camp is lying or that his management hasn't kept him up to date for the last three weeks.
9/9/13 11:31 PM
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UGCTT_iPray2bLaidByWeidman
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Devlin -  Is he worried they're going to screw him over or catch him out? Phone Post

It's important to understand the difference between the WADA and VADA.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is a non-profit organization that oversees drug testing for many Olympic and international sports organizations. They were at the forefront of discovery in the EPO scandals that plagued the Tour de France, and the USOC follows WADA recommendations and suspensions.

The Volunteer Anti-Doping Agency is a for-profit company based out of Las Vegas. They have no affiliation with any state or international sanctioning body, and their results are non-binding for any sporting events. The company uses Georges St. Pierre as a "de facto" endorser, providing free testing and splashing GSP all over their product. The VADA has a vested financial interest in GSP both testing clean and being successful in the cage.

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free. GSP's camp reportedly (he said/she said situation) refused, making their association with the VADA seem suspect.
This is the reality of the situation. Excellent breakndown of the difference between the two companies.

WADA is WAY more credible, and not in the pocket of either fighter.

GSPs lawyer was sketchy when Kizer asked him to do WADA. Phone Post
9/9/13 11:52 PM
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da Vinci 81
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UGCTT_iPray2bLaidByWeidman - 
BackOffWarchild -
Devlin -  Is he worried they're going to screw him over or catch him out? Phone Post

It's important to understand the difference between the WADA and VADA.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is a non-profit organization that oversees drug testing for many Olympic and international sports organizations. They were at the forefront of discovery in the EPO scandals that plagued the Tour de France, and the USOC follows WADA recommendations and suspensions.

The Volunteer Anti-Doping Agency is a for-profit company based out of Las Vegas. They have no affiliation with any state or international sanctioning body, and their results are non-binding for any sporting events. The company uses Georges St. Pierre as a "de facto" endorser, providing free testing and splashing GSP all over their product. The VADA has a vested financial interest in GSP both testing clean and being successful in the cage.

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free. GSP's camp reportedly (he said/she said situation) refused, making their association with the VADA seem suspect.
This is the reality of the situation. Excellent breakndown of the difference between the two companies.

WADA is WAY more credible, and not in the pocket of either fighter.

GSPs lawyer was sketchy when Kizer asked him to do WADA. Phone Post

lol, yeah excellent breakdown.

Except most of what he posted was wrong. Did you even bother reading the rest of the thread before posting your little nugget of ignorance?
9/9/13 11:58 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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UGCTT_iPray2bLaidByWeidman - 
BackOffWarchild -
Devlin -  Is he worried they're going to screw him over or catch him out? Phone Post

It's important to understand the difference between the WADA and VADA.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is a non-profit organization that oversees drug testing for many Olympic and international sports organizations. They were at the forefront of discovery in the EPO scandals that plagued the Tour de France, and the USOC follows WADA recommendations and suspensions.

The Volunteer Anti-Doping Agency is a for-profit company based out of Las Vegas. They have no affiliation with any state or international sanctioning body, and their results are non-binding for any sporting events. The company uses Georges St. Pierre as a "de facto" endorser, providing free testing and splashing GSP all over their product. The VADA has a vested financial interest in GSP both testing clean and being successful in the cage.

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free. GSP's camp reportedly (he said/she said situation) refused, making their association with the VADA seem suspect.
This is the reality of the situation. Excellent breakndown of the difference between the two companies.

WADA is WAY more credible, and not in the pocket of either fighter.

GSPs lawyer was sketchy when Kizer asked him to do WADA. Phone Post

Dude I normally respect what you say and enjoy debating with you, but he's agreed to do WADA so get off of it.

 

You didn't enjoy it when people harped on Silva for that clip of syringes in his cabinet, this witch hunt on GSP is getting jut as bad.

9/10/13 12:00 AM
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SmackyBear
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UGCTT_iPray2bLaidByWeidman - 
BackOffWarchild -
Devlin -  Is he worried they're going to screw him over or catch him out? Phone Post

It's important to understand the difference between the WADA and VADA.

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is a non-profit organization that oversees drug testing for many Olympic and international sports organizations. They were at the forefront of discovery in the EPO scandals that plagued the Tour de France, and the USOC follows WADA recommendations and suspensions.

The Volunteer Anti-Doping Agency is a for-profit company based out of Las Vegas. They have no affiliation with any state or international sanctioning body, and their results are non-binding for any sporting events. The company uses Georges St. Pierre as a "de facto" endorser, providing free testing and splashing GSP all over their product. The VADA has a vested financial interest in GSP both testing clean and being successful in the cage.

Keith Kizer's input was that the NSAC can do testing at the WADA level, and unlike the VADA, do it for free. GSP's camp reportedly (he said/she said situation) refused, making their association with the VADA seem suspect.
This is the reality of the situation. Excellent breakndown of the difference between the two companies.

WADA is WAY more credible, and not in the pocket of either fighter.

GSPs lawyer was sketchy when Kizer asked him to do WADA. Phone Post

Incorrect.

VADA isn't a for profit company, an $8,000 - $16,000 cost isn't free, they don't "splash" GSP all over their product, they have no vested interest in GSP testing clean, Kizer isn't offering GSP a WADA program, and he's not offering an NSAC program in conjunction with a WADA lab for free, and GSP didn't refuse it, Kizer took questions about the new program as a refusal.

So that's at least a half dozen things that were wrong with that.
9/10/13 12:17 AM
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cdmontgo
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LOL @ the Sherlock Shields references
9/10/13 12:26 AM
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mdrndaysamurai
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35000 dollars for drug testing??? And no one is turning a profit? Weird.. Phone Post
9/10/13 12:29 AM
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mdrndaysamurai
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Also, I don't think passing a drug test really means anything regardless. I think this whole thing is a bit of a circus regardless. I wouldn't 've at all surprised if they both have used banned substances. Phone Post
9/10/13 12:38 AM
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da Vinci 81
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mdrndaysamurai -  Also, I don't think passing a drug test really means anything regardless. I think this whole thing is a bit of a circus regardless. I wouldn't 've at all surprised if they both have used banned substances. Phone Post

I think what probably happened is GSP proposed the drug testing months ago and Hendricks - not wanting to look bad - instantly agreed to it.

Only after did he realize what a giant pain in the ass it was going to be and the last thing he needed before the biggest fight of his life was another distraction. So he simply didn't bother filling out the paperwork hoping the issue would go away. And it did until that article about him not signing up came out a few days ago and now his camp is in full damage control trying to explain why he hasn't participated.
9/10/13 12:40 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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mdrndaysamurai -  Also, I don't think passing a drug test really means anything regardless. I think this whole thing is a bit of a circus regardless. I wouldn't 've at all surprised if they both have used banned substances. Phone Post

the people who protest the most and say "I'm on good old fashioned steak and eggs" or whatever are usually the ones with the narcissistic attitude that they think they'll get away with it. They both talk about how clean they are so you're probably right. 

9/10/13 12:40 AM
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da Vinci 81
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^ At least that's my guess why he's not playing along.
9/10/13 12:43 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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The UFC needs to either maximize the testing now or make a statement that everyone who works for them is going to live with the current system and STFU, because the way this has gone from the Roy situation to the Rory one to this, the next one is going to be so abusrd it will overshadow the entire card and soon the sport, and Keith will be laughing with his boxing buddies about how little he had to do for it to happen.

9/10/13 12:43 AM
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suess
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is that LnP up there giving props to the dude who was knowledge-bombed already?

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