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UnderGround Forums >> Royce Criticizes New Generation Of The Family


9/17/13 11:21 AM
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IrishAggression
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JStrongMMA -  Yea...much respect but I disagree. If your opponent has adequate bjj defense to stay out of submissions and wrestling to keep the fight where he wants it and you are relying soley on bjj then you sir are fucked. Phone Post

THIS !
9/17/13 12:03 PM
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dermotfix
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MrColdCock -  I don't disagree with Royce at all.

Maia is having the best success in his career now that he has rediscovered his roots.

Aoki has had a damn good career despite abysmal standup.

How many times have we yelled at the screen watching a guy stand and wang when he's out of his element.

People can trash on Royce all they want. One thing for sure is Royce did not stand and wang when he fought Sakuraba. He fucking brought it to the best fighter in the world. Imagine if Royce had cross trained hard for that fight. The outcome would have been much worse and we as fans would have felt robbed watching Royce and Sakuraba in a strictly stand up fight. He lost, but he brought his best skills to the table. Phone Post

My mind immediately went to Maia too.

I wish there were more examples.

There's nothing better than watching Maia bring the submission pain game to wrestlers and jab-n-joggers.

9/17/13 12:15 PM
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sawdusk
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I disagree with bjj being enough, only from the standpoint that it is and has always been weak with takedowns... it would be enough if bjj'ers had the same quality of takedowns that they have with grappling... but if they can't get the fight to the ground, their discipline is ineffectual..
9/17/13 12:31 PM
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Kneeblock
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ChaosOverkill -
Kneeblock -  Demian Maia has proven that all you need is jiu jitsu and a quality weight cutting regimen. Phone Post

Not enough for a belt yet though. He couldn't "Royce" Silva.

That was 15 lbs ago against a fellow blackbelt. The real question is can he Royce fellow black belt GSP? Phone Post
9/17/13 2:55 PM
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BigEyedFish
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omega 2013 - it wasn't like it took years to figure out gbjj. kimo put it on him in ufc 2(or whatever) and shamrock bludgeoned him soon after that.

stupidest post Ive seen all year here congrats.

Kimo had tons of weight on Royce and so did Ken. Kimo LOST that fight.

Ken did not bludgeon anyone. He lied in Royces guard and did nothing. The ref took it upon himself to break the rules and stand them up. Royce took one or two punches because of that illegal horseshit.
9/17/13 3:32 PM
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BubbaRayGracie
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I started BJJ and MMA because of Royce. I have all the respect in the world for what he accomplished in his era, but things have moved so quickly with MMA that he and some of his brothers have become the equivalent of old folks shaking their fists at technology and talking about how it was "in my day!"

It's also a little confusing why he's talking about training boxing for six months if he was lined up with Mike Tyson, when cross training is so ingrained in MMA today that no one talks about cross training anymore, they just train wrestling, submissions and striking because that's what MMA is.
9/17/13 3:48 PM
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graciesrule
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The problem is Royce is living in the Vale Tudo world not MMA. In Vale Tudo with head butts, up kicks when opponent is on his knees,kidney kick Jiu jitsu is all you need. Jiu jitsu needs a no time limit to cook the opponent and wear him down to finish them. With MMA rules you must learn wrestling and striking or you lose, period. Royce is finally realizing that training Muay Thai and not focusing on jiu jitsu for the Hughes fight cost him because he was out grappled. Losing to one of the two greatest welterweights of all time is nothing to be ashamed of when your way past your prime.
9/17/13 3:50 PM
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mestregruber
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omega 2013 - it wasn't like it took years to figure out gbjj. kimo put it on him in ufc 2(or whatever) and shamrock bludgeoned him soon after that.

Ken landed like one good punch in 25 minutes of a boring bullshit fight. He did not "bludgeon" anyone.
9/17/13 4:41 PM
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factchecker
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MrColdCock -  I don't disagree with Royce at all.

Maia is having the best success in his career now that he has rediscovered his roots.

Aoki has had a damn good career despite abysmal standup.

How many times have we yelled at the screen watching a guy stand and wang when he's out of his element.

People can trash on Royce all they want. One thing for sure is Royce did not stand and wang when he fought Sakuraba. He fucking brought it to the best fighter in the world. Imagine if Royce had cross trained hard for that fight. The outcome would have been much worse and we as fans would have felt robbed watching Royce and Sakuraba in a strictly stand up fight. He lost, but he brought his best skills to the table. Phone Post

Aoki was a top-level Judoka and an excellent at submission before he started BJJ/grappling/MMA. He is a much better rounded fighter than any Gracie.


9/17/13 5:50 PM
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Kostakio
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Because Gracies are not very good athletes
This. This. This. Phone Post 3.0
9/17/13 7:38 PM
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Stipe
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Kneeblock -  Demian Maia has proven that all you need is jiu jitsu and a quality weight cutting regimen. Phone Post

What did prime CroCop prove then?

And how will those two proofs work together?
9/17/13 8:06 PM
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Cask Strength
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When you're dealing with average guys in the real world, BJJ can give average and smaller guys who may not be that athletically gifted the tools to survive and win fights against larger and more physically threatening opponents. That's its value. BJJ doesn't make you Superman. Skilled, athletic, and physically superior guys can still wreck you, particularly with the focus on sport BJJ over the past several years. Hence the bluebelt jokes.

At an elite level of fighting, BJJ knowledge is necessary but not sufficient to make you an elite fighter. Yhe game has evolved. For the average guy, you'll see huge returns in the time and money you invested in learning BJJ. For elite fighters, its just one of many tools that everyone needs to have in their toolbox.
9/17/13 8:33 PM
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MMAdotCOM
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The rules are to blame, not cross training. Take away rounds and bjj wins. No time limits or gloves bjj wins easily
9/17/13 8:39 PM
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Stipe
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I wouldn't agree with that.
There were plenty of BJJ guys who weren't winning in the old days, in tournaments with no rounds.

Maia is an exception, not the rule; for one Maia there are dozens of BJJ purists who just got knocked out or decisioned with a straightforward gameplan when they tried out MMA.
9/17/13 8:47 PM
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VARIOUS
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This thread needs the song Glory Days playing in the background

 

" I had a friend who was a big BJJ fan back in 1992, he could throw that mount on you, make you look like a fool...."

9/17/13 11:47 PM
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lol,thats what relson said about Royce.
9/17/13 11:49 PM
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Gomrad
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Because Gracies are not very good athletes
This Phone Post 3.0
9/17/13 11:52 PM
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plastekt
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I think theoretically that training stand up from birth and having the gracies surrounding you would be the best option, but it seems like they train what they know from birth and some of them turn 16-18 and try to be kickboxers. If you trained them in punching or kicking since they were 10 as they had been around jiu jitsu their entire life then maybe they wouldn't get knocked out by that one dude.
9/18/13 5:49 AM
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THERE WAS A GLITCH IN THE MATRiX
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Stipe - I wouldn't agree with that.
There were plenty of BJJ guys who weren't winning in the old days, in tournaments with no rounds.

Maia is an exception, not the rule; for one Maia there are dozens of BJJ purists who just got knocked out or decisioned with a straightforward gameplan when they tried out MMA.

Yep!

Gurgel, Bitteti, Moreira, etc!

and thats why its frustrating people dont give Royce the respect he deserves.
9/18/13 6:31 AM
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Stipe
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Yeah, and those we're throwing around are the cream of the crop, the champions of BJJ. There are plenty of guys who are badasses but not the pinnacle who went through the same.

And we can even add people like Marcelo and Saulo to that list.


The thing is, it is easier to not get subbed than it is to sub someone - even IF you get to BJJ-ers territory.
And often times that doesn't even happen at all. Any guy who's a better wrestler will simply not get taken down - see the last Fedor vs Nog.

Gameplans when fighting a BJJ purist are straightforward and effective, time-tested and proven, and Royce is being a bit silly here.
9/18/13 7:25 AM
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YouCantHandleMyRiddum
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Errk - That's why Matt Hughes stomped him.

He's coming across as the man who is bitter about the new era. He pretty much fought nothing but cans... When he fought anyone of relevance, he got beat. His biggest wins are Shamrock at the very beginning and Sakuraba when he took steroids.
9/18/13 7:39 AM
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spliff
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u71Zz1L4UJ4
9/18/13 8:47 AM
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MattyECB
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ajl416az - 
UGCTT_Benwahwah - 
RonysTorresIceBag - "I believe in pure jiu-jitsu. That’s what I’ve done in the past..."


And nandrolone. Definitely nandrolone.
This is totally disrespectful. But made me laugh like a little girl. Phone Post 3.0

not disrespectful if its true

Ya, kinda uncalled for, but you should never censor the truth. It also makes it extra disingenuous to criticise the new wave, when he was dopiing and IIRC maintaining hormone levels around 25X physiological levels
9/18/13 12:09 PM
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THERE WAS A GLITCH IN THE MATRiX
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YouCantHandleMyRiddum - 
Errk - That's why Matt Hughes stomped him.

He's coming across as the man who is bitter about the new era. He pretty much fought nothing but cans... When he fought anyone of relevance, he got beat. His biggest wins are Shamrock at the very beginning and Sakuraba when he took steroids.

he lost to Hughes when Royce was not in his prime and to saku after 90 minutes. what are all the other fights he lost or got his ass beat in?

and a little heads up for you noobs and the steriod comments, you do realize most of your heros are on something or another right? I personally know 3 UFC fighters who use and cycle and one of them would be a HOLY SHIT moment if found out.

9/18/13 12:13 PM
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THERE WAS A GLITCH IN THE MATRiX
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YouCantHandleMyRiddum - 
Errk - That's why Matt Hughes stomped him.

He's coming across as the man who is bitter about the new era. He pretty much fought nothing but cans... When he fought anyone of relevance, he got beat. His biggest wins are Shamrock at the very beginning and Sakuraba when he took steroids.

fuck off Noob!

Shamrock, Severn, Saku, Yoshida, Kimo, Hackney, Pat Smith, Remco! yep, just cans. SOOOOOOOOOO Glad TUF brought us awesome fans like this. you prob think all your heros in UFC are clean too, LOL!

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