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UnderGround Forums >> Royce Criticizes New Generation Of The Family

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9/17/13 3:48 PM
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graciesrule
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The problem is Royce is living in the Vale Tudo world not MMA. In Vale Tudo with head butts, up kicks when opponent is on his knees,kidney kick Jiu jitsu is all you need. Jiu jitsu needs a no time limit to cook the opponent and wear him down to finish them. With MMA rules you must learn wrestling and striking or you lose, period. Royce is finally realizing that training Muay Thai and not focusing on jiu jitsu for the Hughes fight cost him because he was out grappled. Losing to one of the two greatest welterweights of all time is nothing to be ashamed of when your way past your prime.
9/17/13 3:50 PM
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mestregruber
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omega 2013 - it wasn't like it took years to figure out gbjj. kimo put it on him in ufc 2(or whatever) and shamrock bludgeoned him soon after that.

Ken landed like one good punch in 25 minutes of a boring bullshit fight. He did not "bludgeon" anyone.
9/17/13 4:41 PM
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factchecker
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MrColdCock -  I don't disagree with Royce at all.

Maia is having the best success in his career now that he has rediscovered his roots.

Aoki has had a damn good career despite abysmal standup.

How many times have we yelled at the screen watching a guy stand and wang when he's out of his element.

People can trash on Royce all they want. One thing for sure is Royce did not stand and wang when he fought Sakuraba. He fucking brought it to the best fighter in the world. Imagine if Royce had cross trained hard for that fight. The outcome would have been much worse and we as fans would have felt robbed watching Royce and Sakuraba in a strictly stand up fight. He lost, but he brought his best skills to the table. Phone Post

Aoki was a top-level Judoka and an excellent at submission before he started BJJ/grappling/MMA. He is a much better rounded fighter than any Gracie.


9/17/13 5:50 PM
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Kostakio
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Because Gracies are not very good athletes
This. This. This. Phone Post 3.0
9/17/13 7:38 PM
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Stipe
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Kneeblock -  Demian Maia has proven that all you need is jiu jitsu and a quality weight cutting regimen. Phone Post

What did prime CroCop prove then?

And how will those two proofs work together?
9/17/13 8:06 PM
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Cask Strength
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When you're dealing with average guys in the real world, BJJ can give average and smaller guys who may not be that athletically gifted the tools to survive and win fights against larger and more physically threatening opponents. That's its value. BJJ doesn't make you Superman. Skilled, athletic, and physically superior guys can still wreck you, particularly with the focus on sport BJJ over the past several years. Hence the bluebelt jokes.

At an elite level of fighting, BJJ knowledge is necessary but not sufficient to make you an elite fighter. Yhe game has evolved. For the average guy, you'll see huge returns in the time and money you invested in learning BJJ. For elite fighters, its just one of many tools that everyone needs to have in their toolbox.
9/17/13 8:33 PM
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MMAdotCOM
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The rules are to blame, not cross training. Take away rounds and bjj wins. No time limits or gloves bjj wins easily
9/17/13 8:39 PM
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Stipe
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I wouldn't agree with that.
There were plenty of BJJ guys who weren't winning in the old days, in tournaments with no rounds.

Maia is an exception, not the rule; for one Maia there are dozens of BJJ purists who just got knocked out or decisioned with a straightforward gameplan when they tried out MMA.
9/17/13 8:47 PM
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VARIOUS
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This thread needs the song Glory Days playing in the background

 

" I had a friend who was a big BJJ fan back in 1992, he could throw that mount on you, make you look like a fool...."

9/17/13 11:47 PM
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12
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lol,thats what relson said about Royce.
9/17/13 11:49 PM
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Gomrad
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Because Gracies are not very good athletes
This Phone Post 3.0
9/17/13 11:52 PM
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plastekt
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I think theoretically that training stand up from birth and having the gracies surrounding you would be the best option, but it seems like they train what they know from birth and some of them turn 16-18 and try to be kickboxers. If you trained them in punching or kicking since they were 10 as they had been around jiu jitsu their entire life then maybe they wouldn't get knocked out by that one dude.
9/18/13 6:31 AM
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Stipe
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Yeah, and those we're throwing around are the cream of the crop, the champions of BJJ. There are plenty of guys who are badasses but not the pinnacle who went through the same.

And we can even add people like Marcelo and Saulo to that list.


The thing is, it is easier to not get subbed than it is to sub someone - even IF you get to BJJ-ers territory.
And often times that doesn't even happen at all. Any guy who's a better wrestler will simply not get taken down - see the last Fedor vs Nog.

Gameplans when fighting a BJJ purist are straightforward and effective, time-tested and proven, and Royce is being a bit silly here.
9/18/13 7:25 AM
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YouCantHandleMyRiddum
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Errk - That's why Matt Hughes stomped him.

He's coming across as the man who is bitter about the new era. He pretty much fought nothing but cans... When he fought anyone of relevance, he got beat. His biggest wins are Shamrock at the very beginning and Sakuraba when he took steroids.
9/18/13 7:39 AM
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spliff
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u71Zz1L4UJ4
9/18/13 8:47 AM
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MattyECB
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ajl416az - 
UGCTT_Benwahwah - 
RonysTorresIceBag - "I believe in pure jiu-jitsu. That’s what I’ve done in the past..."


And nandrolone. Definitely nandrolone.
This is totally disrespectful. But made me laugh like a little girl. Phone Post 3.0

not disrespectful if its true

Ya, kinda uncalled for, but you should never censor the truth. It also makes it extra disingenuous to criticise the new wave, when he was dopiing and IIRC maintaining hormone levels around 25X physiological levels
9/18/13 12:34 PM
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Keith Kizers Boots
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To me this is like Bart Starr saying:

"Whats with all these quarterbacks zippin' around outside the pocket? They forgot their roots! A QB is supposed to hand the ball off or throw from INSIDE the pocket. You should only venture outside the pocket if a play is busted!"
9/18/13 1:44 PM
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MMAdotCOM
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The other side of the rules being to blame is that now the opponents are all cross trained so in a way bjj still wins Phone Post
9/18/13 1:48 PM
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JDkoa
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1) 5 minutes rounds with no gi do not lend themselves to traditional BJJ-style grappling with an opponent who is not inclined to grapple with you.

2) Wrestling was pretty obviously displayed as the superior base from clear back in the early days, when wrestlers first started competing in the UFC.

3) Royce should remember that BJJ was an adaptation and evolution of an existing martial art, to face the realities of new styles and techniques that hadn't previously been seen by the Gracies. Likewise, a similar evolution of BJJ is needed to keep pace with the newer styles and athletes that are showing up in the octagon.
9/18/13 2:18 PM
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MrColdCock
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Keith Kizers Boots - To me this is like Bart Starr saying:

"Whats with all these quarterbacks zippin' around outside the pocket? They forgot their roots! A QB is supposed to hand the ball off or throw from INSIDE the pocket. You should only venture outside the pocket if a play is busted!"
Or like watching a QB zip outside the pocket over and over only to get blasted over and over because he's slow as fuck. But damn, he keeps working at it and trying. Meanwhile he has a cannon of an arm. Phone Post
9/18/13 2:35 PM
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Joe Rogan
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This is the Jiu Jitsu version of the Beatles song, "All you need is Love."  Big Beatles fan, but you need more than love to get by in this world, bitch.

9/18/13 2:54 PM
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BigEyedFish
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MMAdotCOM - The rules are to blame, not cross training. Take away rounds and bjj wins. No time limits or gloves bjj wins easily

although it isnt absolute, there is a lot of truth to this statement.

Short rounds allows for the athleticism factor to play into it to a huge degree
9/18/13 3:04 PM
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Ajm1218
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Joe Rogan - 

This is the Jiu Jitsu version of the Beatles song, "All you need is Love."  Big Beatles fan, but you need more than love to get by in this world, bitch.


Awesome, I've said this very thing for years. All joking aside, love didn't get him record deals, hardwork and talent did. And love didn't cut it in front of the Dakota.
9/18/13 3:08 PM
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CDarwin
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him?

9/18/13 3:37 PM
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jkd4200
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Errk - That's why Matt Hughes stomped him.

Matt's BJJ was simply better that day.

no big deal.

The point still remains:

Matt did not come out to stand and bang...

Matts bread and butter was grappling

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