UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Royce Gracie Plain Wrong in Criticism of Fam


9/19/13 1:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Elias Cepeda
185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 20129
 


(We never expected The Godfather of MMA to take sides against the family like this. | Photo by Sherdog.com)

By Elias Cepeda

On Monday I wrote about practitioners of “real” Jiu Jitsu. That is, those who have a background in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and who test those skills in real fights.

Kron Gracie looks to be the next such high-profile example as he sets his sights on a 2014 MMA debut. Royce Gracie is, of course, the first that most of us ever heard of.

Gracie entered the original UFC tournaments as the lightest fighter in open weight contests where the only rules were no biting, eye gouging or fish-hooking, and submitted three and four men in single-night tournaments with the Jiu Jitsu skills that his family developed. As such, Royce’s place in history is more than secure.

As younger family members of his try to carve out their own space in MMA, however, Royce is offering not support but rather rough criticism. Many have criticized fighters like Roger and Rolles Gracie for not being as well-rounded as a few of their best opponents, and take the occasions of their losses to pile on.

Surprisingly, Royce is the latest critic to add some fertilizer onto that pile. Unlike many others, however, Royce says that the reason for his family members’ recent losses is because they are trying to be too well-rounded.

“Jiu-jitsu is enough,” Royce Gracie recently told MMAFighting.com. “I’ve trained boxing in the past to learn the distance, trained wrestling to understand how he would take me down, but I won’t get there to fight my opponent’s game. The [new] guys [from the Gracie] family want to complement their game, like if Jiu-Jitsu was incomplete. I guess they forgot a little about history.

“I do jiu-jitsu my whole life, so why would I try to stand and bang with Mike Tyson?” he went on. ”I’m going to learn boxing in six months because my opponent is good in boxing? That makes no sense.”

I suppose the “history” Royce speaks of is his own, where he was able to dominate many opponents because they had never trained Jiu Jitsu before. Once they did, competition started to level-off and he and everyone else started having more trouble with one another in the ring and cage.

Why Royce is choosing to make self-aggrandizing criticisms of family members who are still physically sore from recent losses is beyond my understanding. 

READ MORE

9/19/13 1:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Immaculata
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 23434
TITAN Combat/TITAN Grappling Open, Promoter
TTT.
9/19/13 2:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Elias Cepeda
185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 20133

thanks, Gabe!

9/19/13 2:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
shaqitup
52 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/20/11
Posts: 7222

everybody knows he was wrong.

9/19/13 2:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Son of Neckbone
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/18/04
Posts: 3958
Royce, in his prime and competing at this moment with the same skillset he had at UFC 1, would not be an active fighter in any major org. To ridicule mixing of different martial arts in a sport called mixed martial arts has obvious problems.

That said, if you're a fish you've gotta swim. Gurgel is the perfect example of extraordinary jj talent that relies almost purely on B-level wanging. Certainly it is important to cross train everything, but not forget what actually brought you to this level in the first place.
9/19/13 4:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mr Stark
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 09/19/13 4:51 PM
Member Since: 5/19/06
Posts: 164
Royce, your logical fallacy is: No True Scotsman -- https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

You have made a false appeal to 'purity' as a means of proving your claim. If you can't provide better evidence for your claim than a fallacy, don't expect anyone to take it seriously.
9/19/13 4:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Elias Cepeda
185 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 20137
:) Phone Post
9/19/13 5:00 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SKARHEAD
59 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/11/04
Posts: 37443
Yeah...because trying to kickbox.Matt Hughes worked so well for Renzo...and playing the jabbing kickboxer was a great plan for Roger
9/19/13 5:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PrettyBoy
44 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/07
Posts: 10622
SKARHEAD - Yeah...because trying to kickbox.Matt Hughes worked so well for Renzo...and playing the jabbing kickboxer was a great plan for Roger
This he is right and he is wrong. It is ok to learn and adapt new skills into your system so long as you do not forget/stop training or using your specialty as your main focus.

King Mo after training with Jeff Mayweather became a boxer like fighter for three fights and ended up getting cracked by newton.

Since then he has done what he is best at wrestling and has out his last two opponents on the mat and smashed them.

I believe that is what Royce is trying to say. Quit going out of your element. Phone Post 3.0
9/19/13 6:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Liyon
118 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 23170
PrettyBoy - 
SKARHEAD - Yeah...because trying to kickbox.Matt Hughes worked so well for Renzo...and playing the jabbing kickboxer was a great plan for Roger
This he is right and he is wrong. It is ok to learn and adapt new skills into your system so long as you do not forget/stop training or using your specialty as your main focus.

King Mo after training with Jeff Mayweather became a boxer like fighter for three fights and ended up getting cracked by newton.

Since then he has done what he is best at wrestling and has out his last two opponents on the mat and smashed them.

I believe that is what Royce is trying to say. Quit going out of your element. Phone Post 3.0

I remember people were saying get Ronda Rousey with an A-list Muay Thai trainer and she would be unstoppable. Which seems logical, but others pointed out that this is probably the last thing she wants to do, b/c it would take her away from her strengths which is clinching/grappling.

For example, as a clincher/grappler, essentially you want to learn enough kickboxing to maximize your grappling/clinching opportunities, not so you can kickbox.
9/19/13 6:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
8flat
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/25/10
Posts: 842
Yeah, Royce wouldn't fare well today entering the UFC with just one skill set. Who can?
9/19/13 6:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGCTT_mrzipplokk
388 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/31/02
Posts: 45125
Mixed Martial Arts LLC, Moderator

Who just lost, Rolles ? Why he would stand and box is beyond me.

9/19/13 8:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Immaculata
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 23437
TITAN Combat/TITAN Grappling Open, Promoter
TTT.
9/19/13 8:37 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
snookerbank
10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/5/13
Posts: 103
The same guys bashing the opinions of any UG er who is a 12 er or newer are daring to disagree with a MMA pianeer lol. I bet they wont even see the Irony. That said everyone has the right to state their opinion. I think Royce is wrong on this. A NYC street planner famously called the Automobile a fad and will never replace the Horse & Buggy. Phone Post
9/19/13 8:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Trane
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/31/12
Posts: 1382
Nice article, I agree. Royce is discounting the fact that mma has evolved since his time. While fighters today are spending much more than 6 months on grappling, Royce is unwilling to spend 6 months of boxing?
9/19/13 10:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
RonysTorresIceBag
10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/20/13
Posts: 129
Donny, you're out of your element!
9/19/13 10:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Immaculata
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 23439
TITAN Combat/TITAN Grappling Open, Promoter
Allen Hood - He is not wrong at all. I miss the pure BJJ in MMA. Phone Post 3.0

He is wrong. If you're an expert in something, enhance your weaknesses to compliment/set up what you are good at. Watch Miaia vs. Story. Miaia wouldn't have been able to dominate the way he did if didn't have the ability to recognize Story's strengths. That comes from training different combat sciences.
9/20/13 12:11 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bungle
5 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/30/01
Posts: 2068
Seriously... Royce is stupid. He's talking about history : here's some history Royce, watch the fight with Sakuraba! At the very height of his powers, the prime of his career, in a 90-minute match which he trained extensively for, he couldn't do a thing against the superior Sak, who leg-kicked the shit out of him for 6 rounds. In fact I remember Sak was in his butterfly guard for a while - whilst Sak dished a thorough beating on him, other than that he was utterly destroyed and ultimately embarrassed over the course of the hour and a half fight. Ju-Jitsu alone was what *lost* him the fight; had he have had some decent stand-up skills things might have been very different. But what the Gracies need to do - and why they have slipped behind drastically in modern times - is because they are supremely arrogant. Perhaps some day they will look back and realize this. For now though, the beatings upon the current Gracie lot will continue, and wont abate. It's sad - and rather pathetic - to hear Royce spout such crap as he does nowadays. But then again they all are doing it. Helio taught them well..

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.