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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan still believe UFC is "Swallowing" Boxing ?


9/20/13 5:59 AM
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CapnKindBud
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The reason that some people say that it's "swallowing " boxing is because it was just a few years ago that the ENTIRE sports world was ignoring the sport of mma entirely and the fact that the op feels the need to start this discussion proves how far the sport has come in only a few years!
Mma isn't bigger than boxing right now, that's true, but it's also true that boxing is really a one man show right now. With Manny being destroyed by Marquez, he no longer commands anything near what he used to.
The facade of boxers being the "baddest man alive" and all that shit is dead. Everyone knows that, in real TOTAL combat, boxing is just ONE part of what you must master to be a real fighter.
Now that most people know the deal, boxing will decline year by year as mma grows. Do not be fooled by UFC ppv numbers. That is not the real barometer of the growth of the sport and its popularity.
Every year old boxing fans die as more mma fans are getting old enough to follow a sport.
Rogan was right with the outlook that young people are into mma far more than boxing. And new boxing fans are non existent . Boxing will not get more popular. There will be the occasional Floyd who transcends the sport but as a whole, the kids are doing mma.
It's far too early in the evolution of mma to say that it has swallowed boxing but I totally think it will. And EVERY real indicator of growth says it will happen. Phone Post 3.0
9/20/13 6:08 AM
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stonepony
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A lot of logic fail happening. UFC numbers are down because the market is saturated with content. The attention is diluted across many cards every year. The boxing numbers will continue to rise, for the one lone relevant fight every year, because the attention is concentrated there more and more.

One boxer making money, is not a sign of boxing growing. It's a sign of boxing shrinking.

Top-15 PPV events last year? 10 from the UFC, 4 from boxing. The few remaining boxers with name recognition, are not being replaced as they're retiring. Some people really do need a weather man to tell them which way the wind is blowing.
9/20/13 6:13 AM
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LostInPeteCarrollsBlueEyes
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To be fair to Rogan the sport back then was shit. De La Hoya was near the end. Hopkins/Jones/Mosley were there barely being relevant. It wasn't until around 2008 when the sport started making the slow change to now in 2013 where the sport is officially in the come back stage with having 2 big budgets and going back on network TV.

I believe both sports are here to stay and when I read posts like the one CapnKindBud posted a few minutes I ago I have no choice but to shove off, clearly Capn still thinks it's 2006 and Liddell vs Ortiz 2 is Saturday night. Then he calls boxing fans old.
9/20/13 6:13 AM
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AbrahamCondorTheThird
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ok, how ma y buys does a boxing card without mayweather or pacqiao do? boxing is dying... once these 2 superstars retire, there better be a few new ones to replace them or it will be a slippery slope imo Phone Post
9/20/13 6:16 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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Immaculata - He's 36.

he'll be around for at least another decade.
9/20/13 6:20 AM
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LostInPeteCarrollsBlueEyes
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AbrahamCondorTheThird -  ok, how ma y buys does a boxing card without mayweather or pacqiao do? boxing is dying... once these 2 superstars retire, there better be a few new ones to replace them or it will be a slippery slope imo Phone Post

How many buys does a UFC card do without a big star like GSP/Jones/Silva?

I'll tell you what they do Abraham, the same number of buys the shitty boxing PPVs the sport used to have back a few years ago. The sport doesn't many shitty PPVs anymore.

9/20/13 6:21 AM
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stonepony
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Jons Forsberg - 
Immaculata - He's 36.

he'll be around for at least another decade.

He could make big money boxing at 50. Any promotable boxer has job security today. Tyson could come out of retirement and box professionally today, so could George Foreman.
9/20/13 6:31 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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George Foreman fought until 50 so does Bernard Hopkins. Mayweather ain't slowing down anytime soon.
9/20/13 6:40 AM
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stonepony
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Jons Forsberg - George Foreman fought until 50 so does Bernard Hopkins. Mayweather ain't slowing down anytime soon.

Mayweather would be able to box professionally at 65. He would be doing it on youtube though. And all of the people in denial would argue "yeah, but, the fight did great numbers in Siberia and Madagascar!".

The boxing champions were household names throughout America, up until the last couple decades. They're all anonymous today. Ask the average under-40 today, who the current champions are. Almost none would be able to name the HW champ.
9/20/13 6:50 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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it's the UFC that is desperately going after overseas markets. Floyd has 3x the drawing power of any MMA athlete domestically.
9/20/13 6:59 AM
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stonepony
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Jons Forsberg - it's the UFC that is desperately going after overseas markets. Floyd has 3x the drawing power of any MMA athlete domestically.

And, as the sport continues to dwindle, as he stands out more and more as a singular attraction, his numbers will continue to grow. Doesn't mean the sport is growing. It means the remaining attention is concentrated on the one remaining relevant participant.

There are 1, or 2 relevant boxing matches a year. People tune in to watch one fight, and none of the undercard fights.

Kids aren't in the gym learning to box so that they can be like Floyd buddy. They're taking BJJ classes and learning to kick box. Someone would have to be pretty far removed from reality to be able to deny that. Wouldn't they?

Nostalgia is keeping boxing going. Nostalgia and culture lag in places like Russia where it's 1995 with people wearing Run DMC clothes and listening to Ace Of Base on cassette tape.

You miss disco? Move to Russia buddy.
9/20/13 7:04 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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Edited: 09/20/13 7:07 AM
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" It means the remaining attention is concentrated on the one remaining relevant participant."

one relevant participant means it's one more than the UFC. There are zero stars in MMA in the US right now.
9/20/13 7:05 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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basically Floyd's last 3 PPV outsell a full year of UFC PPVs:




08/11/2012 UFC 150 Henderson v. Edgar II 190,000
09/01/2012 UFC 151 Jones vs. Henderson Canceled
09/22/2012 UFC 152 Jones vs. Belfort 450,000
10/13/2012 UFC 153 Silva vs. Bonnar 410,000
11/17/2012 UFC 154 GSP vs. Condit 700,000
12/29/2012 UFC 155 JDS vs. Velasquez II 590,000
02/02/2013 UFC 156 Aldo vs Edgar 330,000
02/23/2013 UFC 157 Rousey vs Carmouche 450,000
03/16/2013 UFC 158 GSP vs Diaz 950,000
04/27/2013 UFC 159 Jones vs Sonnen 550,000
05/25/2013 UFC 160 Velasquez vs Bigfoot II 380,000
06/15/2013 UFC 161 Henderson vs Evans 150,000
07/06/2013 UFC 162 Silva vs Weidman 550,000
08/03/2013 UFC 163 Aldo vs Jung 170,000
9/20/13 7:10 AM
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Standup29
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EB, can people disagree with you without you resorting to childish name calling?

Boxing will never die but come on, year vs year PPV buys show the MMA does better. Year vs Year gate shows MMA does better. Year vs Year TV views (non ppv) shows MMA does better. You can even just use UFC and they do better.

There are only 2-4 boxers who are a draw. Someone will replace them for sure but lets stop acting like Boxing as a sport is thriving. Its certainly not. A couple are doing well and 1 is doing amazing. And most of the demo buying boxing ppv are Latinos. If there is a breakout Mexican born and raised to become champion in the UFC, you will see big growth in viewers and ppv. Phone Post
9/20/13 7:13 AM
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stonepony
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Jons Forsberg - basically Floyd's last 3 PPV outsell a full year of UFC PPVs:




08/11/2012 UFC 150 Henderson v. Edgar II 190,000
09/01/2012 UFC 151 Jones vs. Henderson Canceled
09/22/2012 UFC 152 Jones vs. Belfort 450,000
10/13/2012 UFC 153 Silva vs. Bonnar 410,000
11/17/2012 UFC 154 GSP vs. Condit 700,000
12/29/2012 UFC 155 JDS vs. Velasquez II 590,000
02/02/2013 UFC 156 Aldo vs Edgar 330,000
02/23/2013 UFC 157 Rousey vs Carmouche 450,000
03/16/2013 UFC 158 GSP vs Diaz 950,000
04/27/2013 UFC 159 Jones vs Sonnen 550,000
05/25/2013 UFC 160 Velasquez vs Bigfoot II 380,000
06/15/2013 UFC 161 Henderson vs Evans 150,000
07/06/2013 UFC 162 Silva vs Weidman 550,000
08/03/2013 UFC 163 Aldo vs Jung 170,000

And the reason you're forced to point at Floyd and only Floyd, is because there is only Floyd to use as an example. Everybody else makes nothing, and gets no attention. The average pro boxer makes far less money than the average pro MMA fighter. But, the last guy in the sport with a name is making money, so you hold him and pretend he represents the sport as a whole.

There will be more relevant fights this Saturday, on one card, than there will be in all of 2014 for boxing.

But... Kudos for not lying and claiming that kids are in the gyms to become pro boxers. Ignoring the question shows integrity at least.

10 of the top 15 PPVs last year were UFC. 4 were boxing. If there were as many major boxing cards a year, as there are UFC cards, they wouldn't even pull Bellator numbers.
9/20/13 7:20 AM
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Standup29
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Somebody name 2 boxers drawing over 500k ppv buys not named Floyd or Manny in 2012 or 2013. Phone Post
9/20/13 7:21 AM
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MarkRobinson
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HULC - Boxing isn't dead, and i've never understood why some people need to swing dicks and scream about one being better than the other. I watch both and have no problem with that.
This is really all I have to say about it. Phone Post 3.0
9/20/13 7:23 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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" there is only Floyd to use as an example. Everybody else makes nothing"

Canelo, Marquez, Pacquiao, Klitschos, Floyd, all bigger draws and making more than their Mexican/Asian/European/American counterparts in the UFC.
9/20/13 7:24 AM
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stonepony
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Standup29 -  Somebody name 2 boxers drawing over 500k ppv buys not named Floyd or Manny in 2012 or 2013. Phone Post

Ask 100 high-school seniors that question. I'm trying to think what some of the responses might be...

Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Roy, Oscar. Not only can they not name the few remaining earners in the sport, they can't even name the HW champ.
9/20/13 7:28 AM
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stonepony
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Jons Forsberg - " there is only Floyd to use as an example. Everybody else makes nothing"

Canelo, Marquez, Pacquiao, Klitschos, Floyd, all bigger draws and making more than their Mexican/Asian/European/American counterparts in the UFC.

Sorry, I should have said almost everybody.
9/20/13 7:28 AM
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CapnKindBud
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stonepony -
Jons Forsberg - it's the UFC that is desperately going after overseas markets. Floyd has 3x the drawing power of any MMA athlete domestically.

And, as the sport continues to dwindle, as he stands out more and more as a singular attraction, his numbers will continue to grow. Doesn't mean the sport is growing. It means the remaining attention is concentrated on the one remaining relevant participant.

There are 1, or 2 relevant boxing matches a year. People tune in to watch one fight, and none of the undercard fights.

Kids aren't in the gym learning to box so that they can be like Floyd buddy. They're taking BJJ classes and learning to kick box. Someone would have to be pretty far removed from reality to be able to deny that. Wouldn't they?

Nostalgia is keeping boxing going. Nostalgia and culture lag in places like Russia where it's 1995 with people wearing Run DMC clothes and listening to Ace Of Base on cassette tape.

You miss disco? Move to Russia buddy.
This is correct and maybe he said it a little better than I did but the fact remains that boxing is an older mans sport and except for one or two fights a year, the sport is pretty much invisible Phone Post 3.0
9/20/13 7:31 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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stonepony - 
Jons Forsberg - " there is only Floyd to use as an example. Everybody else makes nothing"

Canelo, Marquez, Pacquiao, Klitschos, Floyd, all bigger draws and making more than their Mexican/Asian/European/American counterparts in the UFC.

Sorry, I should have said almost everybody.

the UFC is no different. couple guys making big, but not nearly as big money as boxing while everybody else makes nothing.
9/20/13 7:32 AM
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Herman Munster
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UFC will close out the year strong.  GSP/Hendricks could do a million buys with the controvsy on Hendricks avoiding enhanced testing interest is only building, and Weidman/Silva 2 may end up doing a million as well.  If the UFC puts on two shows a month apart that can do those kind of numbers it's pretty solid in comparing it to boxing's big feast for the year, but Rogan is an absolute goof.

9/20/13 7:33 AM
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Void
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A big UFC ppv this weekend and there is hardly any hype around it. More threads on TUF thanJones vs Gus. UFC is doing something wrong.
9/20/13 7:34 AM
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stonepony
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Twelvers hav superior genetics - 
stonepony - 
Jons Forsberg - basically Floyd's last 3 PPV outsell a full year of UFC PPVs:




08/11/2012 UFC 150 Henderson v. Edgar II 190,000
09/01/2012 UFC 151 Jones vs. Henderson Canceled
09/22/2012 UFC 152 Jones vs. Belfort 450,000
10/13/2012 UFC 153 Silva vs. Bonnar 410,000
11/17/2012 UFC 154 GSP vs. Condit 700,000
12/29/2012 UFC 155 JDS vs. Velasquez II 590,000
02/02/2013 UFC 156 Aldo vs Edgar 330,000
02/23/2013 UFC 157 Rousey vs Carmouche 450,000
03/16/2013 UFC 158 GSP vs Diaz 950,000
04/27/2013 UFC 159 Jones vs Sonnen 550,000
05/25/2013 UFC 160 Velasquez vs Bigfoot II 380,000
06/15/2013 UFC 161 Henderson vs Evans 150,000
07/06/2013 UFC 162 Silva vs Weidman 550,000
08/03/2013 UFC 163 Aldo vs Jung 170,000

And the reason you're forced to point at Floyd and only Floyd, is because there is only Floyd to use as an example. Everybody else makes nothing, and gets no attention. The average pro boxer makes far less money than the average pro MMA fighter. But, the last guy in the sport with a name is making money, so you hold him and pretend he represents the sport as a whole.

There will be more relevant fights this Saturday, on one card, than there will be in all of 2014 for boxing.

But... Kudos for not lying and claiming that kids are in the gyms to become pro boxers. Ignoring the question shows integrity at least.

10 of the top 15 PPVs last year were UFC. 4 were boxing. If there were as many major boxing cards a year, as there are UFC cards, they wouldn't even pull Bellator numbers.

You are either shilling for Zuffa or you are one of the most fucking dumb human beings on the planet.

Boxing is most certainly thriving in Europe where it is bigger then ever. Just one recent example in the UK Carl Froch vs George Groves sold out 18000 tickets in just 11 minutes. The numbers the Klitschkos do in Europe are huge and Haye vs Vladimir did numbers in Europe and worldwide that the UFC could only ever dream of you fool. Plenty of stars too many to name since 2008.

Any decline in Boxing in the USA has been more then made up for elsewhere in the world. It's never been so popular in Europe and puts on more shows around the world now then it did 10 years ago you fool.

The UFC cashed in on a WWE star with a penis tattooed on his chest and since he left it's been slowly fading ever since. Unless serious changes are made it will carry on going downhill while Boxing will continue to rise worldwide.

According to the guy desperately arguing in favor of boxing on an MMA website.

Europe is just behind the curve. But they will adopt wrestling in their schools, and they'll catch up in MMA. It takes some powerful suspension of disbelief to be able to pretend that boxing is healthier than ever or on an upward trend.

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