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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan still believe UFC is "Swallowing" Boxing ?


9/20/13 10:03 AM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
9/20/13 10:05 AM
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man meets fate
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post
9/20/13 10:08 AM
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Standup29
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LostInPeteCarrollsBlueEyes -
Standup29 -  I am still waiting for someone to post a boxing card that did not have Floyd or Manny on the card that had over 500k ppv buys in 2012 or 2013.

I enjoy boxing and grew up watching it like most of us over 30 and know it doesn't have anywhere near the popularity it did in the 80's and 90's.

I will watch any combat sport on tv but there is no denying it as a whole is in the decline. MMA is not growing like it was but it certainly is very healthy as a whole especially if it is compared to boxing. Phone Post

Chavez vs Martinez did 500k buys and it was on the same night as a massive free GBP card with Canelo for free on Showtime.
Technically it did 475k buys but that is still good. Is it the only one? Phone Post
9/20/13 10:09 AM
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man meets fate
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Man fuck this phone Phone Post
9/20/13 10:10 AM
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Standup29
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post
That is because Floyd and Manny can't fight every month or every othet month.

Quality for boxing appears to only be 2 guys based on your logic. Phone Post
9/20/13 10:12 AM
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man meets fate
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Standup29 -
LostInPeteCarrollsBlueEyes -
Standup29 -  I am still waiting for someone to post a boxing card that did not have Floyd or Manny on the card that had over 500k ppv buys in 2012 or 2013.

I enjoy boxing and grew up watching it like most of us over 30 and know it doesn't have anywhere near the popularity it did in the 80's and 90's.

I will watch any combat sport on tv but there is no denying it as a whole is in the decline. MMA is not growing like it was but it certainly is very healthy as a whole especially if it is compared to boxing. Phone Post

Chavez vs Martinez did 500k buys and it was on the same night as a massive free GBP card with Canelo for free on Showtime.
Technically it did 475k buys but that is still good. Is it the only one? Phone Post
Boxing is not about whoring themselves, they only put on money fights.

Fact is, paq and floyd are all guarenteed buys in the millions. Jones, anderson and gsp are not. And you take away them and tou get buys like hendo vs rashad or aldo vs kz Phone Post
9/20/13 10:14 AM
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man meets fate
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Standup29 -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post
That is because Floyd and Manny can't fight every month or every othet month.

Quality for boxing appears to only be 2 guys based on your logic. Phone Post
Jcc and jm are good enough for ppv obviously. Boxing is on premium tv and gets major numbers. Better so far this year than the ufc on free tv. Boxings model has never been about ppv. Always premium tv Phone Post
9/20/13 10:15 AM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post

Actually it should be the opposite. Boxing fans should have a bigger appetite since they don't get to eat as often, therefore when there is a ppv it should average better numbers than the UFC where UFC fans are fed all the time. If you eat 1 mean every couple of days you shouldn't say the meal will be smaller compared to 1 of 3 meals a day. There is no appetite for boxing as a sport. Just an appetite for a very small number of boxers to fight
9/20/13 10:30 AM
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man meets fate
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post

Actually it should be the opposite. Boxing fans should have a bigger appetite since they don't get to eat as often, therefore when there is a ppv it should average better numbers than the UFC where UFC fans are fed all the time. If you eat 1 mean every couple of days you shouldn't say the meal will be smaller compared to 1 of 3 meals a day. There is no appetite for boxing as a sport. Just an appetite for a very small number of boxers to fight
So your saying a shit load of fights with shit numbers are better than the million plus buys each ppv and couple of 500k or 475k outside of the stars. They always give us great fights on Showtime or hbo.

What's better, a hbo or showtime card with average 1.2 million+ views or that same fight on ppv and it average about 5-600k buys?

So what your saying is tou want to see boxing already have paq and floyd bring in big numbers in ppv buys and them also give us good fights that will only get anywhere from 375k to 600k, then throw in a couple 200k one's? That would really embarrass ufcs ppv buys for the whole year.

Everyone keeps saying, oh they buy the brand they buy the brand" yet a few 150k and 170k buys with your best being 900k is not a good look. Phone Post
9/20/13 10:31 AM
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man meets fate
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And meant 4-500k Phone Post
9/20/13 10:35 AM
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eXtv
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EatonBeever - 
Boxing is not dead and will never be dead. 
 

1997 - "When Mike Tyson leaves Boxing, whos left?  Boxing will be DEAD"

2000 - "When RJJ & ODL leave boxing, who's left?  Boxing will be DEAD"

2013 - "When Mayweather & Pacquiao leave boxing, who's left?  Boxing will be DEAD"

 
This is probably the dumbest quote in the history of fan's opinion in combat sports.  There will ALWAYS be someone else.  Who?  None of us can see into the future, so we dont know whos after Floyd, but look at history.  No one thought anyone could replace Tyson in ppv, then RJJ and Oscar came along... Then no one thought they could be replaced, then Pac / Mayweather came along....  So of course there will be future champs.
 
And lets not even embarrass the UFC fan boys by pulling the American curtain down and revealing just how bigger Boxing is than UFC / MMA world wide.  In Europe , Klitschko bros pull in the MOST sick television numbers that Anderson vs. GSP vs. Bones couldn't even pull here in the States.  I know people from Germany and those countries in Europe and they've never heard of co-main events on a UFC card.  Ask a 'casual' sports fan overseas about David Haye or Klitschkos.  They are 1000x more popular and profitable than the UFC folks.

qft

Boxing has never and will never be dead. And MMA will never surpass it's popularity.
9/20/13 10:39 AM
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Standup29
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Standup29 -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post
That is because Floyd and Manny can't fight every month or every othet month.

Quality for boxing appears to only be 2 guys based on your logic. Phone Post
Jcc and jm are good enough for ppv obviously. Boxing is on premium tv and gets major numbers. Better so far this year than the ufc on free tv. Boxings model has never been about ppv. Always premium tv Phone Post
Could you post these premium numbers that are better than MMA?

And don't full yourself, boxing was a PPV sport not a premium tv sport since Don King made it so. The major stars have been PPV draws and today there are only 2 big boxing draws and the rest do not draw.

MMA has the same issue but take the top 2 out of both and MMA is a better draw.

Prove me wrong and I will happily admit it but I doubt I am wrong. Phone Post
9/20/13 10:45 AM
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Standup29
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Standup29 -  I am still waiting for someone to post a boxing card that did not have Floyd or Manny on the card that had over 500k ppv buys in 2012 or 2013.

I enjoy boxing and grew up watching it like most of us over 30 and know it doesn't have anywhere near the popularity it did in the 80's and 90's.

I will watch any combat sport on tv but there is no denying it as a whole is in the decline. MMA is not growing like it was but it certainly is very healthy as a whole especially if it is compared to boxing. Phone Post

Sky box office in the UK don't release PPV numbers but it was widely reported that the Haye vs Chisora fight last year in the UK generated around 800,000 buys in 2012.

Considering the how small the UK population is (1/6) compared to the USA those numbers are very impressive. . Haye has pulled in some great numbers for Sky against also Harrision and Klitsckho. Even if Haye vs Fury only pulled in 300,000 this weekened for a country with 60 million compared to 300+ million for the USA those numbers would be extremely impressive.


It's unfortunate that those who criticize Boxing do not seem to know much about it. Boxing in Europe has grown exponentially this last decade and the trend is clearly going up and up. MMA has made no dent at all because it is still unknown to 99.9% of the population and that isn't going to change anytime soon.
Do US boxing PPVs get purchased in the UK? I am quite familiar with boxing and live in Europe (Holland) and can never find any US fights anywhere on tv.

I am simply comparing apples to apples (us purchases) and do not believe outside of Floyd and Manny Boxing does better than MMA in the US on PPV (even minus the 2 top MMA draws) or on tv. Am I mistaken? If so I would love to see the numbers. Phone Post
9/20/13 10:49 AM
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Standup29
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Also the biggest problem is that MMA doesn't have its stars fighting in Europe. Not many fans of any sport would be willing to pay to watch an event live at 3am or a replay the next day.

I am sure if Cain vs JDS were to take place in London and was on PPV and do very well at the gate. Wouldn't you agree? Phone Post
9/20/13 10:59 AM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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Edited: 09/20/13 11:00 AM
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9/20/13 11:01 AM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post

Actually it should be the opposite. Boxing fans should have a bigger appetite since they don't get to eat as often, therefore when there is a ppv it should average better numbers than the UFC where UFC fans are fed all the time. If you eat 1 mean every couple of days you shouldn't say the meal will be smaller compared to 1 of 3 meals a day. There is no appetite for boxing as a sport. Just an appetite for a very small number of boxers to fight
So your saying a shit load of fights with shit numbers are better than the million plus buys each ppv and couple of 500k or 475k outside of the stars. They always give us great fights on Showtime or hbo.

What's better, a hbo or showtime card with average 1.2 million+ views or that same fight on ppv and it average about 5-600k buys?

So what your saying is tou want to see boxing already have paq and floyd bring in big numbers in ppv buys and them also give us good fights that will only get anywhere from 375k to 600k, then throw in a couple 200k one's? That would really embarrass ufcs ppv buys for the whole year.

Everyone keeps saying, oh they buy the brand they buy the brand" yet a few 150k and 170k buys with your best being 900k is not a good look. Phone Post

You said the reason the UFC had 10 of the top 15 ppvs of 2012 was because they put out more shows. This would make sense if they combined the shows into an overall buy total, yet they didn't so because they didn't it should help boxing since the appetite should grow with less events to potentially buy. The reality is you need ethnicity to sell a boxing fight outside of Floyd. Either a large mexican following, Rican following or Filipino following or British following. People don't buy "boxing" They buy a very small number of fighters and most of these need their respective national backing.

UFC needs none of these variables to be successful, the brand and sport is bigger than the fighters and national followings that route for someone because they are from the same country
9/20/13 11:13 AM
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crazydave
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9/20/13 11:21 AM
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HoldYerGround
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James III - 
Standup29 -  Also the biggest problem is that MMA doesn't have its stars fighting in Europe. Not many fans of any sport would be willing to pay to watch an event live at 3am or a replay the next day.

I am sure if Cain vs JDS were to take place in London and was on PPV and do very well at the gate. Wouldn't you agree? Phone Post

Have to disagree here no-one here in the UK outside of MMA fans know who Cain or JDS are? If they fought here in London this year the PPV numbers would be appalling.

MMA in Europe still has a homosexual vibe to it because most believe 'real men' stand up and use fists only. There is something very dishonourable about ground fighting and that is not going to change anytime soon. Not even in the next 5 - 10 years in my opinion. They don't have wrestling in schools over there either.

Meantime Boxing is pulling better numbers then ever and in the last 10 years the sport has grown massively. MMA hasn't even made a dent.

They don't have wrestling in schools in Europe?

Are you dense?
9/20/13 11:46 AM
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Silverball
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When MMA pay improves, the sport will attract the best athletes, who will have trained for MMA specifically from a much younger age...like boxing, and every other professional sport of note. When that happens, MMA will maybe swallow boxing. The questions is, how far off in the future are we talking?
9/20/13 11:58 AM
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georgejonesjr
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Silverball - When MMA pay improves, the sport will attract the best athletes, who will have trained for MMA specifically from a much younger age...like boxing, and every other professional sport of note. When that happens, MMA will maybe swallow boxing. The questions is, how far off in the future are we talking?

I'd guess about the same time football swallows basketball or hockey or baseball.

Most sports fans watch more than one kind of sport. Its really not a zero sum game, MMA and boxing will co-exist as well as football and baseball, basketball and hockey.

If anything, I think MMA is making a number of sports (wrestling for sure, but also judo and BJJ, and yes, boxing too) more popular among young folks than they were before. The local boxing club has said that they're seeing more guys coming to train (initially to cross train for MMA, then often staying) than they had for awhile, and a lot of these guys have turned into fans of boxing in general - they watch both boxing and MMA.

Sports just aren't a zero sum game. You only have to turn to the sports forums and see how many pro sport leagues there are to see that.
9/20/13 12:14 PM
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cdmontgo
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georgejonesjr - 
Silverball - When MMA pay improves, the sport will attract the best athletes, who will have trained for MMA specifically from a much younger age...like boxing, and every other professional sport of note. When that happens, MMA will maybe swallow boxing. The questions is, how far off in the future are we talking?

I'd guess about the same time football swallows basketball or hockey or baseball.

Most sports fans watch more than one kind of sport. Its really not a zero sum game, MMA and boxing will co-exist as well as football and baseball, basketball and hockey.

If anything, I think MMA is making a number of sports (wrestling for sure, but also judo and BJJ, and yes, boxing too) more popular among young folks than they were before. The local boxing club has said that they're seeing more guys coming to train (initially to cross train for MMA, then often staying) than they had for awhile, and a lot of these guys have turned into fans of boxing in general - they watch both boxing and MMA.

Sports just aren't a zero sum game. You only have to turn to the sports forums and see how many pro sport leagues there are to see that.

It's different for MMA and boxing. They are PPV sports. The NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, and MLS are all on free TV. It is easy for fans to consume them all. Fight fans are limited by their wallet.

As long as the revenue is greatly tied to PPV, consumption will be limited.
9/20/13 12:17 PM
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Silverball
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georgejonesjr - 
Silverball - When MMA pay improves, the sport will attract the best athletes, who will have trained for MMA specifically from a much younger age...like boxing, and every other professional sport of note. When that happens, MMA will maybe swallow boxing. The questions is, how far off in the future are we talking?

I'd guess about the same time football swallows basketball or hockey or baseball.

Most sports fans watch more than one kind of sport. Its really not a zero sum game, MMA and boxing will co-exist as well as football and baseball, basketball and hockey.

If anything, I think MMA is making a number of sports (wrestling for sure, but also judo and BJJ, and yes, boxing too) more popular among young folks than they were before. The local boxing club has said that they're seeing more guys coming to train (initially to cross train for MMA, then often staying) than they had for awhile, and a lot of these guys have turned into fans of boxing in general - they watch both boxing and MMA.

Sports just aren't a zero sum game. You only have to turn to the sports forums and see how many pro sport leagues there are to see that.

Football, baseball, basketball, and hockey all require different skill sets and physical attributes, which is one of the reasons that one doesn't "swallow" the rest. In addition, the pay for NBA, NFL, and MLB guarantees that the level of athlete entering these sports is as high level as we are currently capable of producing in this country, starting at pee wee and pop warner levels, then high school, college, etc. The process of weeding out the best of the best.

That said, those three sports in particular have had a huge effect on boxing, just look at the state of of amateur boxing today, and compare that to amateur boxing prior to the Magic, Bird, Jordan eras of basketball. That drop off in level of athlete, and competition is the reason why people, like Rogan, question the longevity of boxing, in spite of evens like last Saturday's two million sales pay per view Mayweather fight. I didn't say that MMA would swallow boxing, I said it's a maybe, in the future, but co-exist it might. The real threat to boxing is not MMA, but continues to be the NBA and the NFL.
9/20/13 12:19 PM
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Standup29 -
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Standup29 -
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Boxing as a sport is dead, people will pay to watch 2 or 3 fighters. UFC is a brand, people will pay regardless of who fights.
They may pay but the buys for the most part are dog shit Phone Post

in 2012 ten of the top 15 ppvs came from UFC, 4 from boxing 1 from WWE. Of the 4 from boxing they were all from Pac and Floyd
No shit, that's cause they neee to put on one wvery other week or 2 so at the wnd of the year there totol buy rate isn't a joke.

Ufc is quantity not quality Phone Post
That is because Floyd and Manny can't fight every month or every othet month.

Quality for boxing appears to only be 2 guys based on your logic. Phone Post
Jcc and jm are good enough for ppv obviously. Boxing is on premium tv and gets major numbers. Better so far this year than the ufc on free tv. Boxings model has never been about ppv. Always premium tv Phone Post
Could you post these premium numbers that are better than MMA?

And don't full yourself, boxing was a PPV sport not a premium tv sport since Don King made it so. The major stars have been PPV draws and today there are only 2 big boxing draws and the rest do not draw.

MMA has the same issue but take the top 2 out of both and MMA is a better draw.

Prove me wrong and I will happily admit it but I doubt I am wrong. Phone Post
It was broner vs paulie malignaagi. A fight with a new comer and a paper champion no one gave a fuck about. I'm on my phone so u can look it up for yourself.

And you keep saying mma's 2 best is a better draw than boxings 2 best, but how can mmas two beat be better when they haven't cracked in the millions in along time?

Are you saying gsp's 900k for diaz is better than 1.5 million for paq or 2.2 million for floyd? That doesn't make any sense. Phone Post
9/20/13 12:21 PM
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rockwell
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9/20/13 12:28 PM
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HoldYerGround
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James III - 
HoldYerGround - 
James III - 
Standup29 -  Also the biggest problem is that MMA doesn't have its stars fighting in Europe. Not many fans of any sport would be willing to pay to watch an event live at 3am or a replay the next day.

I am sure if Cain vs JDS were to take place in London and was on PPV and do very well at the gate. Wouldn't you agree? Phone Post

Have to disagree here no-one here in the UK outside of MMA fans know who Cain or JDS are? If they fought here in London this year the PPV numbers would be appalling.

MMA in Europe still has a homosexual vibe to it because most believe 'real men' stand up and use fists only. There is something very dishonourable about ground fighting and that is not going to change anytime soon. Not even in the next 5 - 10 years in my opinion. They don't have wrestling in schools over there either.

Meantime Boxing is pulling better numbers then ever and in the last 10 years the sport has grown massively. MMA hasn't even made a dent.

They don't have wrestling in schools in Europe?

Are you dense?

I think you are the one that is dense if you think they do Wrestling in countries like the UK, France and Germany. Russia and eastern European countries do not make up the majority of the European population. Wrestling in European schools is rather limited particularly in western Europe.

So... they DO have wrestling in Europe then?

Hows the Judo in Western Europe?

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