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UnderGround Forums >> cris cyborg calls out ronda to fight at 140lb


9/22/13 2:09 PM
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Fox censored my Chael screen name
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Anderson Silva has less fights at 205 than Ronda has fights at 145.

 

Would you seriously defend Anderson Silva if Anderson talked shit about Jon Jones, but refused to fight Jones at anything other than 185, yet kept talking shit?

 

Seriously, ask yourself that question.

 

What's funny is the #1 thing that makes me like Ronda, is also the #1 thing that is preventing me from committing to her as a fan.  When she fights, she goes after it. I truly feel Ronda would never point fight her way to a cheap victory.

On the flip side, someone who fights like that should never work the system to have to be protected from another fighter.

9/22/13 2:14 PM
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Yet ANOTHER point coming atchya

 

Ask the question, "Does Ronda have anything to gain by fighting Cyborg"?

 

The funny thing is, there isn't any other female fighter that could do MORE for Ronda if Ronda wins, than beating Cyborg.

What's more impressive, beating Meisha Tate a 2nd time?

Beating Kat Zingano?

Or going to 145 and beating Cyborg?

 

Sorry, but Ronda beating Cyborg is bigger for Ronda's career than Ronda beating any other female fighter.

 

Another point-

Ronda would make the most money with a fight against Cyborg than any other fight. Again, there is no fight bigger for Ronda than Cyborg.

 

In terms of what Ronda has to gain, solidifying herself as THE BEST WOMAN FIGHTER is pretty huge for one(until she fights Cyborg there will always be that cloud of doubt to shade her legacy). 

The payday for Ronda vs Cyborg wouldn't be too shabby either.

 

 

 

Now convince me again why you don't want to see Ronda fight Cyborg....

9/22/13 2:42 PM
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dubate
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I love how absolutely NO ONE touched my valid arguments on this subject.

 

One more time for all of you people with the theory "the champ shouldn't have to move up".

 

Has Jones Ever talked trash about Cain?

Has Anderson talked trash about Jones?

Has GSP talked trash about Anderson?

 

Yet when Ronda talks MAD shit about Cyborg, Ronda can talk her shit, but ask her to fight and she literally hides behind the 135lb weight limit EXCUSE.

 

Point #2 which NO ONE is trying to counter.

Ronda has at least 3 of her 7 fights at 145 pounds.

FACT-Ronda competed in Judo at 70kilograms. 70 kilo grams is 154 pounds. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FOUR POUNDS where she was ranked in the top 3 in the world.

 

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought both Autumn Richardson and Taylor Stratford at 145lbs

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought Sarah D'Alelio at 145lbs

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought Ediane Gomes at 145lbs

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought Charmaine Tweet at 145lbs

There are 2 major differences. 

#1, if GSP talked half the shit to Anderson compared to what Ronda has to Cyborg, Everyone would be giving GSP shit how he's a pussy for talking shit but refusing to not only go up in weight, but refusing a catch weight as well.

#2, GSP has never fought at 185, Jones has never fought at heavyweight. Ronda HAS fought at 145, AND talks shit about the 145lb champ, but refuses to fight her at catch or 145 which she's proven to be successful at.

 

Extra point-Anderson HAS fought at 205, yet Anderson has NOT talked shit about Jones, yet Anderson HAS shown he's not only willing to fight Jones, but willing to fight Jones at 205.

 

 

She has multiple gold medals at 63kg. Nobody cares at the weight class someone starts at, it is where they currently fight. Ronda isn't some journeyman type fighter floating between divisions. She is one of the thousands of fighters in combat sports that have found that with proper diet and strength training they are actually better at a lighter weight.
Stop trying to act like her natural weight is 154. She was chunky as fuck at that weight.
Cyborg has said on multiple occasions that she can make 135 but she doesn't feel "strong" at that weight. Fine, nobody is forcing her to cut but to continue to call out Ronda years after she left the division is retarded. When they were in the same weight class fine, but they aren't any more. All the fame & money (purse & sponsorship) is at 135. Either make the weight or move on.
I get it, you don't like Ronda. That's cool. But to insist that there is something wrong with her for not going up in weight to fight a known steroid cheat who cant "train" properly and make 135 is beyond ridiculous. Phone Post
9/22/13 2:50 PM
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Il Duce
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Too late, she already said she could make 135. Phone Post 3.0
9/22/13 2:57 PM
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Edited: 09/22/13 2:57 PM
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Do you guys see the arguments you're literally clingling to?

 

If Cyborg can't make the weight and needs to move on, then Ronda needs to quit talking shit about Cyborg-no?

 

On one hand, you have a fighter who has 7 pro mma fights, and has fought and won at 145 pounds in mma and won all bouts in the first round FIVE TIMES(at 145).

 

On the other hand, you have a fighter who has had ZERO fights at 135. Not amateur, not pro, not ever.

 

Yet the fighter who is talking shit, who has had 5 fights at the weight class of the girl she's talked mad shit about, isn't supposed to fight her unless it's at 135?

 

Yeah, that's your argurment. That's really how weak your stance is.

9/22/13 3:00 PM
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I want Anderson Silva to talk mad shit about Jon Jones. I want Anderson to defame him publically, and I want Anderson to make a stipulation that if Jones wants to fight Anderson, than Jones must come down to 185.

 

That's the exact same thing Ronda has done, and for some reason people are making excuses for her.

Talk about her pretty face. Talk about her armbars. Talk about her fighting attitude.

 

But DO NOT talk to me how Ronda is the baddest woman in mma.

 

I want Jon Jones to talk shit about Cain Velasquez but say that he(Jones) would only fight Cain if it's at 205lbs and Cain MUST come down to 205 even though Cain has never made that weight and is having shit talked about him from a champion fighter one weight class below his.

9/22/13 3:02 PM
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Fox censored my Chael screen name - 

I want Jon Jones to talk shit about Cain Velasquez but say that he(Jones) would only fight Cain if it's at 205lbs and Cain MUST come down to 205 even though Cain has never made that weight and is having shit talked about him from a champion fighter one weight class below his.

 
 
Perhaps this one was a bad example.
 
Bad example in that Jones has never fought in a weight class above his, where as Ronda has.
9/22/13 3:06 PM
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georgejonesjr
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I love how absolutely NO ONE touched my valid arguments on this subject.

 

One more time for all of you people with the theory "the champ shouldn't have to move up".

 

Has Jones Ever talked trash about Cain?

Has Anderson talked trash about Jones?

Has GSP talked trash about Anderson?

 

Yet when Ronda talks MAD shit about Cyborg, Ronda can talk her shit, but ask her to fight and she literally hides behind the 135lb weight limit EXCUSE.

 

Point #2 which NO ONE is trying to counter.

Ronda has at least 3 of her 7 fights at 145 pounds.

FACT-Ronda competed in Judo at 70kilograms. 70 kilo grams is 154 pounds. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FOUR POUNDS where she was ranked in the top 3 in the world.

 

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought both Autumn Richardson and Taylor Stratford at 145lbs

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought Sarah D'Alelio at 145lbs

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought Ediane Gomes at 145lbs

FACT=Ronda Rousey fought Charmaine Tweet at 145lbs

There are 2 major differences. 

#1, if GSP talked half the shit to Anderson compared to what Ronda has to Cyborg, Everyone would be giving GSP shit how he's a pussy for talking shit but refusing to not only go up in weight, but refusing a catch weight as well.

#2, GSP has never fought at 185, Jones has never fought at heavyweight. Ronda HAS fought at 145, AND talks shit about the 145lb champ, but refuses to fight her at catch or 145 which she's proven to be successful at.

 

Extra point-Anderson HAS fought at 205, yet Anderson has NOT talked shit about Jones, yet Anderson HAS shown he's not only willing to fight Jones, but willing to fight Jones at 205.

 

 


Pretty simple actually.

You're right about the trash talk - fighters shouldn't be trash talking people not in their weight division. Period.

You're wrong that having fought at one weight division in the past means you're obligated to fight at it again.

Or is BJ Penn now obligated to fight at 205 because he fought there before? You're not seriously putting that argument forward, are you?

Basically, Cyborg has no obligation to cut weight to fight Rousey, Rousey has no obligation to go up in weight to fight Cyborg. Until you can show that either or both has an obligation to change their weight class for the other (maybe because one of them saved the other's life and so they owe them a favor - can't think of any other possible reason such an obligation might exist), nothing you say is worth responding to, because its irrelevant.

Fighters aren't obligated to change their weight classes for anyone. Its really that simple. But yeah, both should shut up about the other.
9/22/13 3:12 PM
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Jambo888
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I delivered U - 
crazydave - 


Cris would kick his ass aswell.

well played

9/22/13 3:15 PM
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georgejonesjr-seems like we are in pretty much agreement for the most part.

My argument isn't that just b/c ronda has fought at 145 before she should fight there again.

That's not my point at all.

 

My point is what you and I agree on, which is that if you aren't willing to go up and fight someone in a weight class higher than yours, than you shouldn't go out of your way to talk lots of trash.

 

I totally agree with you on your example on BJ Penn fighting at middleweight just b/c he's done it before.

I would never want him to, HOWEVER...

IF BJ Penn was to talk shit about Hector Lombard, I 100% would expect BJ to step up and fight him, and I know BJ would.  But in your example BJ wasn't talking crap about a lhw. 

You left out that significant part in your hypothetical example.  Not only has BJ Penn gone up in weight and competed, but he did it without talking trash about the other guy. Ronda Rousey has talked trash about an opponent one weight class bigger than hers.

 

The reasons why they should fight, is b/c they don't like each other, it'd be an interesting match up, and it'd be a huge fight for fans and the promotion and the fighters.

 

The reasons why they CAN fight, is because Ronda CAN make 145.

9/22/13 3:31 PM
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Purple Veiny Doom
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My bones are heavy, so my body is ready. Phone Post 3.0
9/22/13 3:43 PM
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PrettyBoy
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RileyPust - Ronda does not walk around in shape at 155 lbs...
Have you met Ronda in person? She is not small. Phone Post 3.0
9/22/13 3:51 PM
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JudoknowNothing
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Ronda's most recent comments about fighting Cyborg. At the 17:25 mark

http://youtu.be/O8tcpJYgXXI Phone Post 3.0
9/22/13 4:01 PM
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Wicked smahtMF
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sad at this point. shes becoming more and more ridic as time goes on. if she cant make 35s fuck it. just shut the fuck up about it though, no? the belt is a 35 belt for gods sake.
9/22/13 4:10 PM
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georgejonesjr
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georgejonesjr-seems like we are in pretty much agreement for the most part.

My argument isn't that just b/c ronda has fought at 145 before she should fight there again.

That's not my point at all.

 

My point is what you and I agree on, which is that if you aren't willing to go up and fight someone in a weight class higher than yours, than you shouldn't go out of your way to talk lots of trash.

 

I totally agree with you on your example on BJ Penn fighting at middleweight just b/c he's done it before.

I would never want him to, HOWEVER...

IF BJ Penn was to talk shit about Hector Lombard, I 100% would expect BJ to step up and fight him, and I know BJ would.  But in your example BJ wasn't talking crap about a lhw. 

You left out that significant part in your hypothetical example.  Not only has BJ Penn gone up in weight and competed, but he did it without talking trash about the other guy. Ronda Rousey has talked trash about an opponent one weight class bigger than hers.

 

The reasons why they should fight, is b/c they don't like each other, it'd be an interesting match up, and it'd be a huge fight for fans and the promotion and the fighters.

 

The reasons why they CAN fight, is because Ronda CAN make 145.


Agreed on the smack talking.

Disagree that their not liking each other makes any difference, or that its a big fight for the promotion or fans makes any difference - they're simply different sizes.

If they were the same size the fight would make a lot of sense - but if they were the same size, Cyborg could make 135 as easily as Rousey does.

Different sized fighters have no obligation to fight each other - that's the whole point of having weight divisions. If we now decide that different sized fighters should fight, than like in the early UFC, like in early boxing, in early judo, in early wrestling we should get rid of weight divisions. But so long as they're there, its silly to ignore them.

And sure Rousey can make 145. She could also make 155, 170, and probably even 185 by wearing heavy cloths. Cyborg similarly could make 155, 170, 185, and 205.

For that matter, Aldo could probably make 205 the same way - its always easy to make a heavier weight division, because there are in fact no rules against wearing cloths on the weigh in, so you just stuff your pockets with metal. And yes, this has been done in smaller organizations.

But again I agree, Rousey shouldn't trash talk Cyborg. Is she still doing this, or is this from before, when Cyborg failed the PED tests (and I'm one of those open to giving her another chance - if she fails again though I'd label her a habitual cheater and lose interest in her fights).
9/22/13 4:13 PM
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Bucephalus
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@Fox censored my Chael screen name - Rhonda is a belt-holder in a different division. Nothing is more important than defending a belt. It's the entire goal and purpose of this sport. Now go tell your doctor to lower your adderall dosage.
9/22/13 4:21 PM
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Bucephalus-

It's football sunday, we just had a great main event last night, this is a topic I care about, today it's the Series finale of Dexter, the Tyson documentary show premieres today, I have chronic and gta 5, so....

 

Forgive me if I seem a lil excited today :)

 

Cyborg has not put emphasis on the 135lb belt. Cyborg is interested in kicking the shit out of someone who has talked shit and gone out of their way to defame her.  If defending the belt is the most important thing, than Rhonda shouldn't be talking mad shit about a fighter who is in a weight class above her if Rhonda isn't trying to get anything Cyborg has.

Again, Cyborg's rebuttle shit talking has had nothing to do with a 135lb belt, it's had to do with fighting someone who has discredited her.

9/22/13 4:38 PM
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georgejonesjr-I think you and I put different emphasis on the size difference.

 

I started watching when there were no weight limits, so perhaps my perspective is different than yours.

I feel weight divisions were added more for marketing than anything.  I mean obviously the best 155er wasn't going to be fighting and winning against heavyweights so there was a market for weight classes.

 

In terms of fighting though, same skill vs same skill, size will be the difference maker only if the size is more significant than the close gap of skill.

What I mean is especially at the lower weights, we're talking 7-10lbs being added on the day after weigh ins.

Having Ronda, who again has fought mma at least 5 times at 145, would be able to cut weight, weigh 145, and the following day weight I'm guessing around 148-152 pounds.

Cyborg would weigh 145, the following day weigh I'm guessing 152-155lbs.

 

You also have to take into account there are advantages for being smaller. Look at Floyd Mayweather who recently weighed less on fight day than he did at the weigh ins. He used his speed advantage and picked apart Canelo. He was the smaller man who went up. Respect.

 

BJ Penn vs Matt Hughes. You used BJ as an example when comparing BJ fighting Lyoto when we were talking about Ronda going 1 weight class up to fight Cyborg.

 

The same guy you used as an example, BJ Penn weighed 166.5lbs vs Matt Hughes.

Matt Hughes, had Evan Tanner beat Rich Franklin, Matt Hughes was going to go UP to 185 to challenge the middleweight champion, but Matt Hughes was going to do it at 170lbs to make a point. "I'm the welter weight champion, and I'm here to take your belt".

 

I guess what our difference comes down to is how you answer these 2 questions.

1.If Ronda was to fight Cyborg at 145lbs(or catch weight of 140 for that matter), how much weight differential do you think there will be come fight day? Meaning I'm assuming you think Cyborg will weigh more than Ronda on fight day, so how much more do you think?

 

2. If Cyborg weighs more, do you think that pound difference is significant enough to give her a deciding edge? Deciding edge meaning if they were the same weight the fight would be even but with those extra (x) pounds, you give Cyborg a significant enough advantage?

 

Very curious to see how you answer this.

 

 

9/22/13 4:38 PM
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dubate
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Do you guys see the arguments you're literally clingling to?

 

If Cyborg can't make the weight and needs to move on, then Ronda needs to quit talking shit about Cyborg-no?

 

On one hand, you have a fighter who has 7 pro mma fights, and has fought and won at 145 pounds in mma and won all bouts in the first round FIVE TIMES(at 145).

 

On the other hand, you have a fighter who has had ZERO fights at 135. Not amateur, not pro, not ever.

 

Yet the fighter who is talking shit, who has had 5 fights at the weight class of the girl she's talked mad shit about, isn't supposed to fight her unless it's at 135?

 

Yeah, that's your argurment. That's really how weak your stance is.

I believe the only "shit" talking Ronda has done in the past 2 years is in response to questions from reporters and it is always some variation of "if she wants to fight me great, but she will have to come in at 135. It is the only way I can be sure that she is relatively clean."
Cyborg on the other hand, continues to call out Ronda for a catch weight fight about every 3 or 4 months. This is what I mean when I say make the weight or move on.

tl; dr
Ronda (since roughly 2011) - Sure, if she wants to call me out and fight me I would love to. As long as she makes 135 (the weight class I fight and hold the belt in) let's do it.

Cyborg - Ronda and I should fight. She should also come up in weight in order to make this fight happen for me. Make weight or move on. Phone Post
9/22/13 4:44 PM
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BRZ
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Bucephalus-

It's football sunday, we just had a great main event last night, this is a topic I care about, today it's the Series finale of Dexter, the Tyson documentary show premieres today, I have chronic and gta 5, so....

 

Forgive me if I seem a lil excited today :)

 

Cyborg has not put emphasis on the 135lb belt. Cyborg is interested in kicking the shit out of someone who has talked shit and gone out of their way to defame her.  If defending the belt is the most important thing, than Rhonda shouldn't be talking mad shit about a fighter who is in a weight class above her if Rhonda isn't trying to get anything Cyborg has.

Again, Cyborg's rebuttle shit talking has had nothing to do with a 135lb belt, it's had to do with fighting someone who has discredited her.

I don't think you understand how this works. Until Cyborg goes to the UFC they can't fight. If you know anything about the UFC they won't let Ronda out of her contract to fight Cyborg. So unless Cyborg cuts down to 135 in the UFC this fight isn't happening. It doesn't matter who called out who anymore at this point. Sure id love to see this who wouldn't? It's no different than wanting to see the whole GSP/Anderson/Jones debate. Business is business. Phone Post 3.0
9/22/13 4:45 PM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 09/22/13 4:45 PM
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No one can "defame" a champion. If anything, Rhonda gave her more relevance by "infaming" her. Cyborg should thank Rhonda for at least making her infamous.

Either way... Cyborg is free to talk shit. Everyone has there goals. For Rhonda, it's to have a perfect MMA career and retire as champion. For Cyborg, it's to bitch about a famous person who insulted her in hopes of getting a single superfight. Different strokes.
9/22/13 4:51 PM
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I find it ironic that in a thread regarding 2 women, arguments from both sides have remained 100% civil and no personal attacks.

 

Good debate and I although I don't put substance in to all the points, there are points being made and I appreciate going that route and there is some substance in the counter points.

 

BRZ, you're a buzzkill. You're right, but damn it don't you wish you were wrong?

 

I'd love to see this fight and I have no idea who would win because I respect both fighter's skill level. I would probably be 50/50 in my head but my heart would lean with Ronda b/c she was vocal about cheating and although not by much, she would be the smaller girl going up so there'd be no excuse for Cyborg if Cyborg lost. But if Cyborg won, people could always cling to the weight thing.

Surprised I'm 50/50 but would want Ronda to win?

 

9/22/13 5:33 PM
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georgejonesjr
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FoxcensoredmyChaelScreen:

As you say, we have a different take on the difference weight makes in unarmed combat (it makes far less difference in a real fight, where weapons are used - military service taught me that).

My experience in college wrestling is that 10 pounds, when between two top level competitors, is huge. You see this all the time if you've competed nationally or internationally - it really is that significant. A guy who can win Olympic gold at 132 pounds would almost never even qualify for one of the 32 Olympic spots if he tried at 143 pounds without seriously spending a couple of years putting on muscle. This plays out again and again at national training camp when they scrimmage. At the top level, if it the extra weight only gives you a 1% advantage, that's huge, because everyone is at 98+% in terms of ability anyway.

Now the counter argument to this is that the depth in International wrestling is much deeper than in WMMA, so that you don't have divisions full of competitors at 98+%. However, Rousey is a world class athlete (proven by her judo medal), and Cyborg definitely seems to be one, so I'm going to argue the same applies to them. Meaning 10 pounds difference is very significant.

So to answer your two questions:

"1.If Ronda was to fight Cyborg at 145lbs(or catch weight of 140 for that matter), how much weight differential do you think there will be come fight day? Meaning I'm assuming you think Cyborg will weigh more than Ronda on fight day, so how much more do you think?"

If they fought at 140 or 145, I think there'd be at least 10 pounds difference. It comes down to re-hydration - weighing in 24 hours before competing gives time to rehydrate very well. If they weighed in just an hour before competing (as they do in Olympic judo, where Rousey fought at 154 with almost no cut because there's no time to re-hydrate) then I think the weight difference would be very small. But I doubt Cyborg would agree to 145 with a weigh in just before the fight. Rousey I suspect would take it, as she's used to it, its how judo is done.

"2. If Cyborg weighs more, do you think that pound difference is significant enough to give her a deciding edge? Deciding edge meaning if they were the same weight the fight would be even but with those extra (x) pounds, you give Cyborg a significant enough advantage?"

Yes, as I said. I think both are very good at what they do, and when two very good competitors compete, the difference between winning and losing is determined by knife edge differences. Ten pounds is a lot of difference in those cases. Now if either were fighting someone who wasn't world class, then the weight wouldn't matter.

Rousey knows the difference weight makes from judo. She'll have worked out with women in a heavier weight division who aren't of Olympic quality, and have lost to them in training, even though her skill is better. I wrestled at about 200 pounds, and though I was a pretty average college wrestler, I could in training beat guys 20 pounds lighter than me who were national team members (not A level members, but still national team members). It really makes that much difference when everyone is well trained.



9/22/13 5:57 PM
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JudoknowNothing
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The fact that it's pretty evenly split among who thinks who is going to win is a compelling reason why these two ladies should fight. It would be the 2nd biggest fight in UFC history. I honestly dont know who would win. Phone Post 3.0
9/22/13 6:17 PM
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Bigdoug924
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TheRealGaff - Cyborg should just dehydrate then get blood took out her , shave her head , get Bone marrow took out , kidney took out . Then weigh in at 135 lbs rehydrate , organs back in and then destroy honda housey Phone Post 3.0
Good valley boss , VU Phone Post 3.0

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