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UnderGround Forums >> DFW: I wanted Fedor so f@$%ing bad


10/19/13 9:07 AM
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FingerorMoon
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Doesn't anybody else realize Dana has revealed this before.

He originally claimed the "1 punch" comment was to Fedor's management in regard to them thinking M1 was an equal and worthy of co-promotion.

Now it's something he said to Fedor directly?

Is this another Zuffa rewrite ?
10/19/13 12:29 PM
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ajl416az
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You guys are idiots

Considering that Fedor's pay and relevance as the best went down as soon as he lost a few times, I would say that he obviously WAS 1 punch (and 1 triangle) away from having zero negotiating leverage and having to take whatever offer is out there

You don't get paid for your legacy. You get paid for performance
10/19/13 1:50 PM
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Fox censored my Chael screen name
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time traveling 12er - 
Fox censored my Chael screen name - 
time traveling 12er - I see Fedor as the Bill Russell of MMA. Lots of people have him as one of the goats, but it's hard to say he was THE goat because of the circumstances of his era. Also those three consecutive losses really puts a question mark on his GOAT status. Eventually the Michael Jordan of MMA may come about and people will push Fedor down the ranks.

 

It most certainly is NOT hard to say he was THE goat.

 

 

I can make a case for Fedor being the Goat over anyone, and it's easy.  There is Fedor, and then there is the rest. I have no reason to say this other than his career made me feel this way. Trust me, I wanted Big Nog to win against him, wanted Randy and Barnett to beat him, but at the end of the day, it's crystal clear to me he is the greatest fighter I have ever seen or known about.

 

If you however feel there are others who have a better resume, by all means, put your debate hat on and get a cup of coffee, it will be a long night for you.


For me, to be the GOAT there has to be very few questions. And there are lots of questions that can be asked on Fedor's Goat status. For one there's the era in which he was the most dominant. Some might consider it the heyday of the sport, but many others may consider it the sport in it's infancy. A time when the sport wasn't attracting the level of athlete that it does now or will increasingly attract in the future. Then there are the questions of where he fought. In Pride, where there have been accusations of fight fixing, yakuza invlovement, no testing for PED's, ect. Then there are his three consecutive losses to fighters that shouldn't have been on his level. His supporters went from GOAT to saying he was already past his prime in the matter of one or two fights. Then there's the question of how deep his own division was in comparison to other divisions. I've heard people say that Prides HW division was the toughest division of all time, but some will disagree.

Like I said he's the Bill Russell of MMA and it's not a diss on Fedor, just a comment on his place in history. Bill Russell had an era of domination that is nearly unmatched in all sports. 10 years of titles as the main man. This, in a sport where even winning two in a row is hard. But he's not #1 one many GOAT lists. Why? Because there are too many questions. The depth of the league and level of talent at the time. The strength of his teammates. And possibly most importantly the fact that almost no fan alive watched him play. Imagine how much worse it would be if he never even played in the NBA and only played in the ABA.

This is going to be Fedor some day. If MMA grows huge Fedor is going to be a phantom name that only hard core fans call out because ZUFFA owns all his tape. The vast majority of fans will not have seen him fight and only have a vague notion of what Pride even was. Even those that take the time to look back will see his three losses to questionable opposition at the end of his career and most glaringly the fact that he never stepped foot in the octagon.

Then there's the simple fact that Anderson Silva arguably has a more impressive streak in a more relevant era and he did it in the premier organization. If Fedor is the undisputed GOAT there shouldn't be a name that's arguably above him IMO.

Dude, you know I respect you and I do so because normally you articulate your opinion very well.

 

With all due respect, you sir, did a shit job of trying to make sense.

 

#1. I asked you to give examples of who is the Goat. Did you give examples? No you did not.

#2. You are comparing an individual man in an indidual sport to a man who played on a team sport. Bad comparison. 

#3. You, sadly, are coming off as one of those Fedor haters. You make long arguments about why he isn't, but how about 2 sentences that says WHO IS and WHY.  You're own criteria to exclude someone can be said about ANYONE, is that what they call a red herring or a strawman argument? Whatever it is, it's CRAP.

 

#4. Pride's ties with Yakuza have zero to do with Fedor's fighting career. When you mention corruptness of an organization in the context of Fedor's career, you should INCLUDE how this corruptiveness affected his fighting career. It had ZERO affect on it dude. To put it in simpler terms, if this was an argument about Mark Coleman's career, BOOM, you have an argument because there is one fight that is questionable.  If you are going to include "fight fixing" to discredit Fedor, then by all means Time Traveling 12er, GIVE EXAMPLES. Please enlighten us all as to what Fedor fights were "fixed". Please man, do this, YOU made this a talking point, so lets talk about that further okay?

 

#5. Popularity of the sport-how in the world does that affect his career?  Boxing is more popular now than it was 50 years ago with social media, but boxing had WAY more depth and legendary boxers than what we have today. This isn't even something that should be discussed and the fact that you mentioned it tells me you are Reaching.  In 2001 or 2002 Pride filled Tokyo Olympic Stadium with over 90 thousand fans. 4 years later UFC put a superfight of Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes at Staples Center in La, they had a RECORD attendance of over 14 thousand.  Guess what, Royce Gracie is a fucking legend despite only fighting for a smaller crowd. It has zero to do with Royce Gracie's legacy, and nothing to do with Fedor's as well.

 

#6-repeat of #1-NAME YOUR GOAT or GOATS bro. Tell me, and tell me why. I double dog dare you.

 

 

10/19/13 3:24 PM
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Fox censored my Chael screen name
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Edited: 10/19/13 3:25 PM
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#2-Fail

#3-"To be a goat, there has to be few questions".  Under YOUR own very logic, you cannot have Anderson as Goat, or anyone for that matter, because there are "too many questions". That is such a weak argument man, so weak that you are losing some credability with me bro.  Some say Muhammad Ali was great, some say Sugar Ray Robinson, some say Marciano. You would contradict your own logic by saying none of these guys are great because there is too many "questions", however you would then pick one of them as the "goat", IGNORING your own logic about the questions of that particular Goat choice.-FAIL

 

#4-I asked you to name a fight that was "in question" regarding Fedor's, and you name NONE. Weak sauce bro, and at this point in time you HAVE to know you are dealing with someone who is seeing your obvious weak arguments so you should back off on this weak angle. But again, if you feel there is some substance to this angle, proceed to NAME the fight or fights of Fedor's that are in question, and explain what makes it questionable.   The weak angles and points you're attempting to make tell me that instead of using logic, you're using stubborn hard headedness. I hope you see the error of your ways, but I doubt you will and assume you will continue making very weak points. 

 

#5-Fedor is incredibly famous, especially when he doesn't speak English, very rare when he does, he was NEVER marketed by UFC, yet professional fighters, the CURRENT UFC HW Champion, Mike Tyson, Bas Rutten, people who had great success in the same industry, all say that Fedor is the Goat.  There has been nothing to say that he won't be remembered.  I just watched a documentary on Sugar Ray Robinson. This was a boxer over 60 years ago that is still relevent. He had no where near the publicity of boxers today, but for some reason you think Fedor will be forgotten about. HA!.

 

New point courtesy of Much Respect-Under "Time Traveling 12ers" logic, by not fighting for Don King or Bob Arum, two of the most famous and biggest promoters in history, nobody can be conisdered great if they didn't fight for them.  Matter of fact, under YOUR logic, Floyd Mayweather is just a chump nobody because he doesn't fight for Don King, he fights for himself.  Do you see how incredibly ignorant you sound judging a man who fights other men, by saying "well when he fought those guys the promotion wasn't a promotion that I like as much as another promotion".  Man dude, really?

10/19/13 3:39 PM
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Regarding Anderson Silva-

Lol, I am VERY anxious to understand your logic of "too many questions" regarding Fedor, but yet Anderson has nothing "questionable" about his Goat legacy.

 

Fedor's worse loss compared to Anderson's-Advantage is Fedor

Fedor fighting for the #1 mma promotion and having freedom to fight outside of that promotion vs Anderson fighting for the #1 mma promotion and being a b-level fighter but then fighting for the new #1 mma promotion only fighting guys under that promotion-Advantage is Fedor

 

Streak-Fedor's streak is Far more impressive than Anderson's. It was against heavyweights, it was against super heavyweights, it was longer.

 

Anderson Silva is 6'2 made his legacy at 185lbs, has said his walk around weight is 215-220lbs. Fedor is 5'11 233lbs and made his legacy fighting at heavyweight.

 

Anderson didn't fight "everyone". For one in 2007 he didn't face Matt Lindland, but that isn't his fault. Fedor fought "everyone" and if you think otherwise, I am more than happy to go further into that as well.

 

Anderson fought "everyone" that was offered at 185lbs. Fedor fought guys from 200lbs to over 350lbs. Fedor took out K1 champions(plural), Olympic medalists(plural), multiple UFC hw champions(plural).  Now if Fedor fought the same guys Anderson did, there's no doubt his highlight reel would be even more brutal. Fedor became champion by beating the man who gave Anderson Silva his black belt......twice.....in a fight that took place mostly on the ground.

 

Further more....I have more to add but I'll hold off as I feel I've given you enough as it is.

 

PS-ironically while debating with time traveling 12er, I'm watching back to the future part 3 with my kiddos.

 

PSS-If I seem "too into this debate", it's for valid reason.  #1, of my 20 plus years of following the sport daily, the biggest gripe I have is when people not named Dana White try to discredit Fedor. To make it worse, I have respect for time traveling 12er b/c he usually has sound logic and explains himself very well. In this particular debate, he is all over the place making arguments that are so weak I wonder if time traveling 12er has a sibling at his house speaking on his behalf. This is not the sound logical 12er that I know.

10/19/13 4:15 PM
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"I think over time, people will not know about Fedor b/c of their age, and the majority 50 years from now will think whoever is the top guy 50 years from now is the Goat, so I will ignore my own history that I have witnessed and just be a hipster in advance".

 

That's what it feels like.

You are an mma fan, act like it. Take honor in what you know, don't twist it to sound cool or hipster.

10/19/13 5:15 PM
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Tilla
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@ Fox - Great Job, Bro. You got him! ;-)

Fedor is the Greatest. End of.
10/19/13 5:43 PM
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ajl416az
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mrwhipple - 
ajl416az - You guys are idiots

Considering that Fedor's pay and relevance as the best went down as soon as he lost a few times, I would say that he obviously WAS 1 punch (and 1 triangle) away from having zero negotiating leverage and having to take whatever offer is out there

You don't get paid for your legacy. You get paid for performance

He did get paid $1.5 million for the Hendo fight (after losing two in a row and that was just how much Zuffa paid, his Affliction called for extra money from M-1 so he might have made more) and reportedly at least $1 mil a fight for his last 3 so it's not like he suddenly making absolutely nothing.

he got paid well but nothing like what he demanded and nothing like what the UFC was offering

he thought he had more leverage then he did, tried to strongarm the UFC into wild demands, and lost out
10/19/13 6:30 PM
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effinggoof
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Fedor's success cannot be measured by Dana Whites yardstick.

Fedor retired wealthy, went into politics, hangs out with Putin (the most powerful man in the world), does celebrity endorsements and has a prominent position in the Russian MMA world.
10/19/13 6:59 PM
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MisterHawkeMMA
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SteelyRes211 - "It's not even that I regret it. Dude, when I tell you that we did everything... someday I'll tell you the story of how much we offered that f---er, too. People will f---ng s---. It made no sense. It's one of those type of deals."

He always says this, why not just release the info? Then he wouldn't have to deal with the questions that he's still getting about not being able to sign Fedor.

Because as soon as that number comes out, every fighter that is way more accomplished than Fedor will want a raise.
10/19/13 7:13 PM
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MisterHawkeMMA
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I really REALLY hate all these dumb asses constantly saying that "it wasn't about the money".

It was about the money. Or do you think they were demanding co-promotion to make less money? Do you think they forced renegotiation with a more respectful owner (Coker) because they didn't care about money? Shit, when asked about the $30 mil that is rumored to be on the table, Vadim said himself that if that was true, that they would've signed.

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