UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Pat Miletich: Corners should throw in towel more


10/23/13 10:23 AM
Ignore | Vote Down | Vote Up
Underground Blog
1157 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/3/08
Posts: 13095
MixedMartialArts.com
 

Pat Miletich is the architect of mixed martial arts. He created the blueprint that every great MMA champion has followed since - you have to have skills in wrestling, kickboxing, and submissions, sufficient to hang with national class exponents in each separate discipline. Miletich was the first UFC welterweight champion, and was greater still as a coach, producing during 2002-2003 UFC champions in a majority (three of the five) of the weight divisions.

In short, Pat Miletich knows more about MMA than you do, or anyone. Miletich appeared recently on Ariel Helwani's The MMA Hour, and discussed why corners are reluctant to throw in the towel.

Saturday night Junior dos Santos lost to Cain Velasquez, taking a more or less unceasing beating before finally falling on his head in the fifth and sitting back insensate.

UFC president Dana White expressed regret that the fight was not stopped sooner.

"I'm a guy who's been around the sport for a long time, and boxing, and seen men who are too tough for their own good," said White. "And I think Junior dos Santos is one of those guys, in the last Cain fight and in this Cain fight. And I think that fight should've been stopped. I just don't think he needed to take anymore punishment."

"I always like to say that if anybody in his f---ing corner cares about him, please, throw in that towel. I thought the fight was done in the third round. Is Junior dos Santos tough enough and does he have the heart to go through it? Yeah, but does that mean he should? If you look at the fight, it ended in the fifth. That guy took seven, eight minutes more punishment that he didn't need to take until it ended. That seven or eight minutes, I don't know man. I just, I don't like it."

Miletich explains why a fight that could have been stopped wasn't.

"God, you know, there's a lot of pride involved," said Miletich. "A lot of the guys that are cornering these guys, many times are training partners, pretty strong, virile young guys who don't see themselves as vulnerable probably, to be honest with you."

"I witnessed a fight Friday night, Roger Carroll getting beat up by Scott Holtzman. It was a hell of fight, but Roger Carroll took a -- I can't even count how many elbows he took. His face was swollen shut and there was no use of the fight going on.

"I'd seen enough and I said that on TV. The boys agreed with me, but it wasn't getting stopped. I think it's just a matter of people not -- they care so much about the guy that they want to see him win. I don't know, they're blind at points. Junior dos Santos took a serious ass whopping, and I tend to agree with some people that, yes, that should've been stopped."

The high-percentage danger in combat sports is not suffering an immediate injury in a fight, it is the cumulate effects of heavy blows, leading to Pugilistic Dementia, a variant of chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

"I think it's already there," said Milietich. :I've seen it in guys that I've trained with in the earlier days... In both boxing and MMA, guys that aren't the same as they were when we were all young. So it's there."


10/23/13 10:24 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
crazydave
201 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/3/02
Posts: 32833

agree 100%

 

no value in your guy getting destroyed when he is clearly beaten. 

10/23/13 10:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Einar
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/02
Posts: 2512
Pat speaks the truth
10/23/13 10:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SC MMA MD
250 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/4/11
Posts: 2142
As usual Pat is right, but I doubt that we will see corners stopping to fights any time soon. The XFC Carroll -vs- Holtzman fight he is talking about was pretty brutal, but the corners don't want to make their fighters think they don't believe in them; and I think that despite all the talk about how corners should throw in the towel more, there will be a loud chorus of complaining every time it happens Phone Post 3.0
10/23/13 10:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
IAmNotImpressedbyYourStocktonSlap
389 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/16/12
Posts: 5608
Agreed. Like when Nick threw in the towel for his brother so he didn't take unnecessary punishment. Needs to happen more. Phone Post
10/23/13 10:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
RKing85
161 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 19940
this of course ignores the fact that throwing in the towel means jack shit in a fight. Ref doesn't have to stop the fight when the towel is thrown in.
10/23/13 10:41 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
IAmNotImpressedbyYourStocktonSlap
389 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/16/12
Posts: 5609
RKing85 - this of course ignores the fact that throwing in the towel means jack shit in a fight. Ref doesn't have to stop the fight when the towel is thrown in.
I thought they changed the rules in 2011 so that the ref would have to stop it? Or I might be thinking of something else Phone Post
10/23/13 10:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Kirik
1732 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 53261
The UnderGround, Mayor

There have been countless times reffing when I couldn't stop the fight, as the guy was inteliigently defending himself, and I knew he was going to lose, and really hoped the corner would look out for their guy.

10/23/13 11:01 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ShawnTheBadger
435 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/10/13
Posts: 1953

Pat is correct.

It's not a fight to the death.  It's a sport.

There are certain points in fights where the ending is inevitable, inescapable and long overdue.

One fighter held up by sheer determination, guts, and primordial savage defiance.  Brass balls the size of a Hippity-Hop.

Time for a friend, training partner, coach, trusted corner-man to make the hard, ugly decison to pull the plug on his fighter. 

There would be bitching and ballyhoo, from fans and the fighter.

It would take conviction, concern, trust, and absolute faith in his own judgement to do so.

"Fuck you bro, did it for your own damn good, you know it and I know it, let's go back to the gym, love ya' but you lost you stupid-tough son-of-a-bitch."

That honor-bound-duty is significantly more important than fighting advice, a corner stool, water, quickie massage,  mouthpiece rinse, or anything else that is a requirement and mandate for the corner.

 

 

 

10/23/13 11:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Einar
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/02
Posts: 2515
RKing85 - this of course ignores the fact that throwing in the towel means jack shit in a fight. Ref doesn't have to stop the fight when the towel is thrown in.

IIRC, throwing in the towel is listed as a foul in the rules. I thought the point of that is that by committing that foul, the corner is disqualifying their own fighter.
10/23/13 11:27 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
r_o_y
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/22/10
Posts: 1509
More legends and current fighters need to say this! Nothing you get from winning a fight is worth all this damage!
10/23/13 11:27 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DamnSevern
1192 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/29/09
Posts: 24890

Pat is correct.

10/23/13 11:34 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Slowshot
158 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/25/08
Posts: 11029
Kirik - 

There have been countless times reffing when I couldn't stop the fight, as the guy was inteliigently defending himself, and I knew he was going to lose, and really hoped the corner would look out for their guy.


Super interesting.

Kirik, have you ever like given the corner a look in between rounds like "come on, do the right thing"?
10/23/13 11:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Vicmister
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/14/03
Posts: 461
Einar - 
RKing85 - this of course ignores the fact that throwing in the towel means jack shit in a fight. Ref doesn't have to stop the fight when the towel is thrown in.

IIRC, throwing in the towel is listed as a foul in the rules. I thought the point of that is that by committing that foul, the corner is disqualifying their own fighter.

This is correct, throwing the towel is a foul that causes the fighter to be DQ'ed.

I know BJM has stories about telling corners to throw in the towel during some of his fights when the fighter was still defending himself but was obviously done in the fight. Towel's really should be thrown more. I agree with Pat.
10/23/13 11:42 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Invisible Lats Syndrome
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/16/08
Posts: 19541
Agreeing with Pat on this one.
10/23/13 11:44 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ajjr0ller
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/14/09
Posts: 9840
BJ gets a lot of shit from MMA "fans" for letting his corner throw in the towel against GSP, but it was absolutely the correct call to make. Maybe when we as fans can continue to cheer and respect fighters in this situation, you will see less reluctance from corners to look out for their fighters safety. Phone Post
10/23/13 11:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Osbot
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/16/09
Posts: 720
The beating JDS took, where Cain would hammer him close to a stoppage and then clinch back up.

That's the kind of shit that causes brain damage. The guy is never really out, he keeps getting breaks so he can semi-recover but never fully recover then he gets pounded on again.

10/23/13 11:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
tio te
51 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/6/07
Posts: 249
I think if more corners were willing to throw in the towel when their fighters were in trouble, the fighters might actually fight harder. Nobody wants to lose, but i'm sure it's incredibly demoralizing knowing that you are going to lose, your corner is going to be disappointed in you, and you have no choice but to land a lucky shot or continue to take a vicious beating until the final bell....and still lose. If the fighters knew the corner might throw in the towel, it might give them a little more urgency and still give them the confidence that they have another option between getting KO/TKOd, submitted, or getting whooped on until the end.

It would break my heart to see a good friend take a beating like JDS did, and even more so if it was my son. I know the corners don't want to count out their boy, but I wish they would consider his long-term health for the rest of his fighting career and beyond.
10/23/13 12:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Kimbos Lice
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/26/11
Posts: 1751
Made me sad reading that and thinking about it. A couple reasons I can think of why they don't.
1) They want their guy to win.
2) They don't want their fighter to think they don't believe in them.

Just look at Gary Goodridge. It's terrible to see these fighters end up like this. Of course it's entertaining as a spectator, but it's definitely not worth their health. God bless these guys with tremendous hearts! Phone Post 3.0
10/23/13 1:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
None So Blind
224 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 16083
Adulterous_Zucchini - You guys really think a ref is just going to ignore the towel being thrown? Lol.

You are correct, of course, but didn't it happen in UFC 1 or 2 (or maybe some Brazilian event like WVC 1 or 2) that a towel got thrown in, the ref picked it up, wiped his face with it, and then THREW IT BACK OUT THE CAGE? :-P Didn't stop the fight, either.

Like a boss...
10/23/13 1:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGCTT_SidRival
542 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/21/10
Posts: 7064
Isn't it technically illegal to throw in the towel under the current unified rules? That has been my understanding. Can anyone verify or shed light to that? Phone Post 3.0
10/23/13 1:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jaime kingslayer lannister
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/13/13
Posts: 45
ajjr0ller - BJ gets a lot of shit from MMA "fans" for letting his corner throw in the towel against GSP, but it was absolutely the correct call to make. Maybe when we as fans can continue to cheer and respect fighters in this situation, you will see less reluctance from corners to look out for their fighters safety. Phone Post
Indeed, respect to Diaz also. Phone Post
10/23/13 1:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Einar
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/02
Posts: 2516
None So Blind - 
Adulterous_Zucchini - You guys really think a ref is just going to ignore the towel being thrown? Lol.

You are correct, of course, but didn't it happen in UFC 1 or 2 (or maybe some Brazilian event like WVC 1 or 2) that a towel got thrown in, the ref picked it up, wiped his face with it, and then THREW IT BACK OUT THE CAGE? :-P Didn't stop the fight, either.

Like a boss...

It was in a brazilian event, on one of the "Gracies in action" tapes. The ref wipes his face with the towel first, but he did stop the fight.
10/23/13 1:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ajjr0ller
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/14/09
Posts: 9843
jaime kingslayer lannister -
ajjr0ller - BJ gets a lot of shit from MMA "fans" for letting his corner throw in the towel against GSP, but it was absolutely the correct call to make. Maybe when we as fans can continue to cheer and respect fighters in this situation, you will see less reluctance from corners to look out for their fighters safety. Phone Post
Indeed, respect to Diaz also. Phone Post
Absolutely. Fighters safety is paramount: corners should never be shamed for this. Phone Post
10/23/13 2:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DaemonDragon
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/16/09
Posts: 2134
IAmNotImpressedbyYourStocktonSlap - Agreed. Like when Nick threw in the towel for his brother so he didn't take unnecessary punishment. Needs to happen more.

Was it confirmed that was Nick? I thought it was one of the trainers, but was never able to find out exactly who.
Einar - It was in a brazilian event, on one of the "Gracies in action" tapes. The ref wipes his face with the towel first, but he did stop the fight.

Wow...damn. Is this video online anywhere?

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.