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10/28/13 6:19 PM
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Junior dos Santos lost to Cain Velasquez Saturday night, taking an extended beating in the process. The fight will be long remembered for Cain's relentless attack (think about standing under a waterfall of punches) and for dos Santos' heart. However, and far more importantly, the fight may be remembered as a turning point in the sport - the night when the sport decided that waiting for the end of lack of intelligent defense is not the best criteria for ending a fight early.

Many times the cageside doctors checked on JDS, twice at the direction of referee Herb Dean, and allowed the fight to go on. In the third round, Dean came as close as humanly possible to stopping it, even putting his hands on the fighters, but by the most razor thin margin imaginable, he let it go on.

In the fifth round JDS secured a Ninja choke, and it appeared that the greatest comeback in the sport's history might happen. But then dos Santos got dropped on his head, leaving his defenseless, and Dean stepped in.

The doctor, the ref, the fighter, and the corner all have the ability to stop the fight, and no one did.

UFC president Dana White was cageside shouting for the bout to be ended, but he is not in charge, the state regulatory body is.

"That fight should've been stopped in the third," White said later.

"I'm a guy who's been around the sport for a long time, and boxing, and seen men who are too tough for their own good. And I think Junior dos Santos is one of those guys, in the last Cain fight and in this Cain fight. And I think that fight should've been stopped. I just don't think he needed to take anymore punishment."

Now Chael Sonnen has weighed in, during a fan Q&A session.

"Junior Dos Santos’ cornerman needs to be cut, period," said Sonnen. "That was beyond inappropriate, that they sent him back out there. The doctor comes in twice, what that doctor was looking for I have no idea. The referee didn’t stop the fight, though he should have. Ultimately it defaults to your cornerman, who you trust, who is like a father figure, and that guy let Junior Dos Santos down, period. The commission licenses these cornermen. I don’t have the foggiest idea why; I guess just to take their $25. That should be the first cornerman that’s suspended, that was beyond wrong what he did."

"You do not stop the fight when your fighter can no longer continue. You stop the fight when your fighter can no longer win. The second your guy can’t win, you get him out of there. That fight should have been stopped way earlier. It knocked years off Junior’s life and career, that cornerman should be fired."

For his part, dos Santos thought the fight was stopped in the second, and fought on autopilot thereafter.


10/28/13 6:28 PM
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GarlicSauce
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Sad reading :(
10/28/13 6:39 PM
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WrestleFook
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Sonnen seems to have 'found god' recently with all the niceness. Where's heel Sonnen!?!! Phone Post 3.0
10/28/13 6:43 PM
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UGCTT_FryedTakayama
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WrestleFook - Sonnen seems to have 'found god' recently with all the niceness. Where's heel Sonnen!?!! Phone Post 3.0
Feuding with Wanderlei ;) Phone Post 3.0
10/28/13 6:50 PM
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Sean Thompson
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we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another
10/28/13 6:57 PM
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dannyapodaca
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Didnt someone else say this? Oh yeah dana. Im really suprised chael has time to talk with danas dick in his mouth. Phone Post
10/28/13 7:00 PM
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WeidmansPHD_in_G0atslaying_fr0m_h0fstra_U
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coming mr. tap tap tap tap "I never tapped."... whatever Sonnen

 

10/28/13 7:02 PM
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bdunning
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Chael shows once again that he knows where his bread is buttered.

I'm absolutely shocked that he shares the same opinion as Dana on something.
10/28/13 7:06 PM
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Kerouac
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Sean Thompson - we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another

JDS was out the fight the moment his 3rd or 4th uppercut hit Cain flush on the jaw and he didn't drop.
10/28/13 7:07 PM
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3 Sided Square
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Sean Thompson - we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another
A broken arm is not taking years off your life. Other athletes play with breaks.


Anderson was not taking serious damage over those 4 rounds.


If his hope is the possibility of one clean shot out of 10 with the other 9 being what happened that night, yes there comes a point when he is out of the fight. And even if he does land that shot, while the conversation might be different the following week, if he ends up looking like Ali in his later years those praise threads will be drowned out by posts about how sad that is. Phone Post
10/28/13 7:12 PM
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Qannebiss
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Sean Thompson - we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another
While this is an excellent point, there comes a time in a fight where the risk to the fighter's health weighs more than the off chance that he'll pull off a miraculous victory. I fully appreciate the fact that JDS has demonstrated time and time again that he only needs one punch to put ANYONE away, I also appreciate the fact that he's human, a mortal, and that there is such a thing as an amount of damage from which a man -even one as formidable as JDS- cannot recover. I'm just hopeful that his point of no return was not reached. I say this as a big fan of JDS. Phone Post
10/28/13 7:14 PM
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Qannebiss
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There's a "but" missing from my other post. Oh well. Can't edit from my phone. Phone Post
10/28/13 7:15 PM
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CiganoBoxer
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Joe Frasier had similar beatings , yet Joe still had a long career and lived a ripe old age .
10/28/13 7:16 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Sean Thompson - we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another
A broken arm is not taking years off your life. Other athletes play with breaks.


Anderson was not taking serious damage over those 4 rounds.


If his hope is the possibility of one clean shot out of 10 with the other 9 being what happened that night, yes there comes a point when he is out of the fight. And even if he does land that shot, while the conversation might be different the following week, if he ends up looking like Ali in his later years those praise threads will be drowned out by posts about how sad that is. Phone Post


Wow i hit the wrong post but you said what I was going to almost LOL. VTFU

The fight should have been stopped in the 3rd IMO there were enough unanswered blows.

10/28/13 7:16 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Kerouac -
Sean Thompson - we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another

JDS was out the fight the moment his 3rd or 4th uppercut hit Cain flush on the jaw and he didn't drop.
Are you crediting JDS power or discrediting Cains chin? Phone Post 3.0
10/28/13 7:17 PM
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Kerouac
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MasterofMartialArts - 
Kerouac -
Sean Thompson - we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another

JDS was out the fight the moment his 3rd or 4th uppercut hit Cain flush on the jaw and he didn't drop.
Are you crediting JDS power or discrediting Cains chin? Phone Post 3.0

Crediting JDS's power...and giving more credit to Cain's chin.
10/28/13 7:18 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Qannebiss - 
Sean Thompson - we can sit play the what should have, would have, could have game all day. A fighter like JDS is he ever truly out of a fight?

Was forrest out of the fight in Brazil when he broke his arm and cmae back to win his fight with the good arm?

Was Anderson out with 4 round beating then to come back with that triangle in the 5th?

If JDS cracks Cain flush in the 5th and Ko'd him we would be having an entirely different conversation. Talking about the Heart of a Champion and such.

Championship bout, everyone knows whats on the line. You create the venue for warriors to go to war then act surprised when the leave it all in the cage? I think herb did an excellent job during that fight and he should be doing all Main Events/ Championship boats IMO

Another
While this is an excellent point, there comes a time in a fight where the risk to the fighter's health weighs more than the off chance that he'll pull off a miraculous victory. I fully appreciate the fact that JDS has demonstrated time and time again that he only needs one punch to put ANYONE away, I also appreciate the fact that he's human, a mortal, and that there is such a thing as an amount of damage from which a man -even one as formidable as JDS- cannot recover. I'm just hopeful that his point of no return was not reached. I say this as a big fan of JDS. Phone Post


This too
10/28/13 7:19 PM
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Kirik
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The UnderGround, Mayor
CiganoBoxer - Joe Frasier had similar beatings , yet Joe still had a long career and lived a ripe old age .

Smoke was punchy.

10/28/13 7:20 PM
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Kerouac
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CiganoBoxer - Joe Frasier had similar beatings , yet Joe still had a long career and lived a ripe old age .

So did Ali...

I'd like to see a coherent Cigano in 20 years.

4 ounce gloves buddy.
10/28/13 7:27 PM
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Telamon
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Fraser was beyond punch drunk- all of the heavies from that era ended up that way. I think Sonnen has a great point. I can see both sides of the fence on this one but battles like that at heavy division do so much damage. I think everyone labels someone a quiter if they throw in the towel but a cornerman should be the one to say "enough".
10/28/13 7:28 PM
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InspiritMick
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Dude it is certainly open for interpretation but I think that there is a judgement call to be made in each fight. Ironically if you can't recognise the difference between the fighters being 'in the fight' in the fights you mentioned and JDS in the Cain fight then your nuts. There are various factors, one is the level of punishment being inflicted and the level of severe head trauma being received. Secondly it is the odds of pulling out that win or surviving the scheduled 5 rounds and the volume of damage sustained at the cost of a chance to win. I can objectively say that I would not have thought about throwing in the towel with Anderson or Franklin. However, I was cringing watching JDS get hammered and there is no way he would have seen a fifth round with me and probably not much of a fourth.

Respectfully, I disagree with your point and I think your perspective is a little foolhardy. Phone Post 3.0
10/28/13 7:28 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Kirik - 
CiganoBoxer - Joe Frasier had similar beatings , yet Joe still had a long career and lived a ripe old age .

Smoke was punchy.



It's very sad to me. Frankly that's exactly why I stopped watching boxing. I just saw too many take to much damage. MMA should strive to be a more civilized sport.

I think the fight needed to be stopped in the 3rd during the period of unanswered blows. What is your opinion here?
10/28/13 7:35 PM
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Van Terminator
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I don't think there would have been many complaints if the fight had been stopped sooner, but it should be said that Dos Santos was still attacking right up until the end. He'd just hit the ground after losing the choke when Dean stepped in - a lot of refs would have let him eat a few shots instead of calling it there and then.

One big problem is that we've seen so many examples of fighters rallying back to win from positions where they've looked on the verge of being totally fucked. Edgar-Maynard II, Rua-Henderson and Lesnar-Carwin are all fights that had me calling for a stoppage which would have cost the eventual winner his victory.

It's an interesting debate, but in a sport such as MMA, which is so varied and chaotic, I'm not sure how a resolution can be found that will make everyone happy.
10/28/13 7:36 PM
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muaythai1622
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Telamon - Fraser was beyond punch drunk- all of the heavies from that era ended up that way. I think Sonnen has a great point. I can see both sides of the fence on this one but battles like that at heavy division do so much damage. I think everyone labels someone a quiter if they throw in the towel but a cornerman should be the one to say "enough".
Foreman seems to have come out of it ok. Phone Post 3.0
10/28/13 7:40 PM
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3 Sided Square
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muaythai1622 -
Telamon - Fraser was beyond punch drunk- all of the heavies from that era ended up that way. I think Sonnen has a great point. I can see both sides of the fence on this one but battles like that at heavy division do so much damage. I think everyone labels someone a quiter if they throw in the towel but a cornerman should be the one to say "enough".
Foreman seems to have come out of it ok. Phone Post 3.0
He named all his kids George. Less stress on his memory. Phone Post

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