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11/1/13 5:09 PM
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LucasBTiger
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What a guy. God bless you, JW. Phone Post 3.0
11/1/13 5:48 PM
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Kirik
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The UnderGround, Mayor
DonFreedomFrye - 
justinthevikingwren - 
DonFreedomFrye - Justin, can you please expand on the the role of you trying to convert these enslaved people to Christianity?

I know that you've partnered up with a Christian Bible college there and a Christian missionary group for this trip.

From your website, it states (http://www.justinthevikingwren.com/):

"His mission is to share Jesus' love with a semi-nomadic group in Congo, the Mbuti Pygmies where only 1% have heard of Jesus."
In Uganda... Poor Internet... I can respond more maybe later Phone Post 3.0

The internet allowed you to respond on this thread and another one.

I have asked this question on a few of your threads with absolutely no response.

Either way, thanks for taking the time and I hope to hear your response.

Why do you necessarily equate share love with converting? The guy is in the middle of Central Africa at great cost and risk, saving lives, and you are badgering him on the UG? Is there literally no shame any more?

11/1/13 5:51 PM
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Qannebiss
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Edited: 11/01/13 5:56 PM
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Justin is a good man.  I'm not crazy about  the missionary part, but the man's doing enough good to offset any proselytizing that may be going on.  All my best to you, sir.

11/1/13 5:52 PM
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Let me bang bro
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get this done son
11/1/13 6:03 PM
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Ridgeback
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Qannebiss - 

Justin is a good man.  I'm not crazy about  the missionary part, but the man's doing enough good to offset any proselytizing that may be going on.  All my best to you, sir.


How is your secular work in the Congo teaching them western consumerism, individualism and militarism going?  

11/1/13 6:26 PM
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Mmanizzle
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there's tons of people that get famous off of what ever they did and did nothing for the world. Justin used his notoriety from fighting professionally to go free slaves in Africa. Nothing but respect.

-mmanizzle
11/1/13 6:33 PM
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Mmanizzle
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DonFreedomFrye - 
Kirik - 
DonFreedomFrye - 
justinthevikingwren - 
DonFreedomFrye - Justin, can you please expand on the the role of you trying to convert these enslaved people to Christianity?

I know that you've partnered up with a Christian Bible college there and a Christian missionary group for this trip.

From your website, it states (http://www.justinthevikingwren.com/):

"His mission is to share Jesus' love with a semi-nomadic group in Congo, the Mbuti Pygmies where only 1% have heard of Jesus."
In Uganda... Poor Internet... I can respond more maybe later Phone Post 3.0

The internet allowed you to respond on this thread and another one.

I have asked this question on a few of your threads with absolutely no response.

Either way, thanks for taking the time and I hope to hear your response.

Why do you necessarily equate share love with converting? The guy is in the middle of Central Africa at great cost and risk, saving lives, and you are badgering him on the UG? Is there literally no shame any more?


Badgering him? Seriously, Kirik?

I think it's an extremely valid question considering the historical implications of going to remote parts of the world to spread religion to the helpless. I'm definitely not criticizing him in any way.

From my understanding (Justin can better explain), a central part of his mission is in relation to converting people to Christianity yet he never brings it up on here and won't answer questions regarding it.

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about what he's doing but I believe people who are using their hard-earned money to support his cause should be aware of that side of his mission if it's true, should they not?

DFF,

I don't know Justin but I think your question to him requires more than just a few sentences and a brief reply. The brother wrote back to you and said more later and you have no patience. Ease up dog. Who are you to demand such an in depth response from him while he's in the middle of the bush?

-mmanizzle
11/1/13 6:41 PM
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Chromium
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@Justin Wren: don't forget some thread seal tape (aka Teflon tape, aka plumber's tape). People always forget that stuff.

Anyway, you're doing great things man, makes me proud you were an MMA fighter.

 

11/1/13 6:44 PM
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Qannebiss
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Ridgeback -
Qannebiss - 

Justin is a good man.  I'm not crazy about  the missionary part, but the man's doing enough good to offset any proselytizing that may be going on.  All my best to you, sir.


How is your secular work in the Congo teaching them western consumerism, individualism and militarism going?  

Wild and baseless assumptions, much? Phone Post
11/1/13 7:04 PM
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youarewhatiswrong
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DonFreedomFrye - 
justinthevikingwren - 
DonFreedomFrye - Justin, can you please expand on the the role of you trying to convert these enslaved people to Christianity?

I know that you've partnered up with a Christian Bible college there and a Christian missionary group for this trip.

From your website, it states (http://www.justinthevikingwren.com/):

"His mission is to share Jesus' love with a semi-nomadic group in Congo, the Mbuti Pygmies where only 1% have heard of Jesus."
In Uganda... Poor Internet... I can respond more maybe later Phone Post 3.0

The internet allowed you to respond on this thread and another one.

I have asked this question on a few of your threads with absolutely no response.

Either way, thanks for taking the time and I hope to hear your response.

The man traveled across the globe to a hostile war torn continent in order to help people to whom he owes nothing to free themselves, feed themselves and educate themselves. Why would it bother you if he wants to share with any of them who will listen the faith that, in his eyes, has instilled in him the strength and benevolence to perform these acts?
11/1/13 7:30 PM
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FETT_TFK_El Pescadero
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justinthevikingwren -
FETT_TFK_El Pescadero - Gd luck bud... Hope you have a great time and make a tremendous difference in the lives of Millions!!

#Stud Phone Post 3.0
I could only hope to affect the lives of millions... Right now I'm focused on changing the lives of my family, the Pygmies (and maybe thinking about changing my name to my Pygmy name, Efèosa, ha).

The way to impact many (instead of impress the masses) is the probably more simple than most think... One life at a time. Phone Post 3.0
I have no doubt by the time your journey on this Earth is over that you will have directly or indirectly helped millions n millions of People! Phone Post 3.0
11/1/13 7:52 PM
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Ridgeback
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Qannebiss - 
Ridgeback -
Qannebiss - 

Justin is a good man.  I'm not crazy about  the missionary part, but the man's doing enough good to offset any proselytizing that may be going on.  All my best to you, sir.


How is your secular work in the Congo teaching them western consumerism, individualism and militarism going?  

Wild and baseless assumptions, much? Phone Post

It isn't an assumption. It is a sarcastic illustration that the other forces working in Africa that are secular in nature are primarily working to exploit the continent.  While the missionaries may not be perfect, they are at least constrained by something greater than the profit motive.   When two cultures meet there is no such thing as a neturality of world view between them.  

 

11/1/13 8:24 PM
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FETT_DiscipleDojo
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Praying for you, brother! Keep up the fight!

 

 

11/1/13 8:53 PM
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Qannebiss
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Edited: 11/01/13 10:21 PM
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Ridgeback -
Qannebiss - 
Ridgeback -
Qannebiss - 

Justin is a good man.  I'm not crazy about  the missionary part, but the man's doing enough good to offset any proselytizing that may be going on.  All my best to you, sir.


How is your secular work in the Congo teaching them western consumerism, individualism and militarism going?  

Wild and baseless assumptions, much? Phone Post

It isn't an assumption. It is a sarcastic illustration that the other forces working in Africa that are secular in nature are primarily working to exploit the continent.  While the missionaries may not be perfect, they are at least constrained by something greater than the profit motive.   When two cultures meet there is no such thing as a neturality of world view between them.  

 

So you believe that the exploitation of the continent is the work of secular groups? I mean, I suppose corporations are secular in that they're not religious organizations, but that's a rather odd way to look at it. There are plenty of non-religious charitable organizations around the world. This idea that secularism is behind the exploitation of a continent while religion is behind most of the attempts to save the lives of its people is a bit absurd.

Also, as far as what I wrote about Mr. Wren's work goes, my post was far more laudatory than critical. The passive-aggressive reply you wrote was uncalled for, but whatever.  I'm going to let this go because I don't want this thread to be about bickering over religion.  Justin Wren is helping people, and that's what really matters.

11/1/13 8:54 PM
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TempestPrime15
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In Phone Post 3.0
11/1/13 9:56 PM
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Chromium
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@JustinWren: one low cost item that has been shown to save a lot of lives in sub-Saharan Africa is simple mosquito netting, to reduce the transmission of malaria. If malaria is at all a problem, I think it might be worth looking into.

Good farming tools are also pretty vital, of course, but I have no idea about specifics there. A lot of societies in rural central Africa are so poor that they actually plow by hand, instead of having even a goat or something to help them (having a work animal to help with plowing tends to help crop production quite a bit).

Setting up infrastructure in these forsaken communities can be a very big challenge, but it helps, so, so much, as I'm sure you're finding out.

11/1/13 10:15 PM
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TheLionAteMyDancingToyRobot
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Justin Wren is a good man. Great work you are doing there!!!!! Phone Post 3.0
11/1/13 10:17 PM
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PUBLICnoose
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Qannebiss -
Ridgeback -
Qannebiss - 

Justin is a good man.  I'm not crazy about  the missionary part, but the man's doing enough good to offset any proselytizing that may be going on.  All my best to you, sir.


How is your secular work in the Congo teaching them western consumerism, individualism and militarism going?  

Wild and baseless assumptions, much? Phone Post
do tell us how youve helped Phone Post
11/1/13 10:27 PM
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BackAndLeft
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ttt Phone Post
11/2/13 12:14 AM
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sfish4862
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Good vibes being sent your way
11/2/13 12:25 AM
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pheonix5
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Making a difference. All the best to you.

11/2/13 1:13 AM
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TexDeuce
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Nice Phone Post
11/2/13 2:08 AM
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justinthevikingwren
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Edited: 11/02/13 4:49 AM
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Mmanizzle - 
DonFreedomFrye - 
Kirik - 
DonFreedomFrye - 
justinthevikingwren - 
DonFreedomFrye - Justin, can you please expand on the the role of you trying to convert these enslaved people to Christianity?

I know that you've partnered up with a Christian Bible college there and a Christian missionary group for this trip.

From your website, it states (http://www.justinthevikingwren.com/):

"His mission is to share Jesus' love with a semi-nomadic group in Congo, the Mbuti Pygmies where only 1% have heard of Jesus."
In Uganda... Poor Internet... I can respond more maybe later Phone Post 3.0

The internet allowed you to respond on this thread and another one.

I have asked this question on a few of your threads with absolutely no response.

Either way, thanks for taking the time and I hope to hear your response.

Why do you necessarily equate share love with converting? The guy is in the middle of Central Africa at great cost and risk, saving lives, and you are badgering him on the UG? Is there literally no shame any more?


Badgering him? Seriously, Kirik?

I think it's an extremely valid question considering the historical implications of going to remote parts of the world to spread religion to the helpless. I'm definitely not criticizing him in any way.

From my understanding (Justin can better explain), a central part of his mission is in relation to converting people to Christianity yet he never brings it up on here and won't answer questions regarding it.

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about what he's doing but I believe people who are using their hard-earned money to support his cause should be aware of that side of his mission if it's true, should they not?

DFF,

I don't know Justin but I think your question to him requires more than just a few sentences and a brief reply. The brother wrote back to you and said more later and you have no patience. Ease up dog. Who are you to demand such an in depth response from him while he's in the middle of the bush?

-mmanizzle

 

MMAnizzle: I'm glad you can understand how Uganda works. Internet is a LUXURY here... We'll see if I get to post anything in Congo. My guys at a university in a town sometimes can't send me a single email for 8-10 weeks at times.

 

Kirik: I appreciate your comment... And you are in the right vein.

 

DonFreedomFrye: Bro, I was going to reply. But in you not waiting until I can go back to my "hotel" at 1am, get some sleep, and get back on at 7:30 am my time, fighting poor internet connection to reply to you, or anyone else, confirms to me what will probably happen in my response to you... It will go in one ear and out the other. I believe in every post of yours EVER to me has been an underlying tone of either ignorance, arrogance, or both. This is why you have not gotten a response, not because I simply wanted to bypass anyones questions about "religion." I just didn't desire to respond to you, personally. Why? Because you have already placed me in a box in your mind. But, I had planned to respond since before your 2nd post on this thread. I don't plan to waste my time here in Africa (Uganda for only 5 days and Congo for a year) on replying to doubters and naysayers. If you want to know the 100% real deal, raw, uncut version of my past, and things to come (basically the full story) I'll send you a book when it comes out. I'm sure you can give it a bad review ;-) So here goes...

11/2/13 2:09 AM
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justinthevikingwren
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Edited: 11/02/13 2:10 AM
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My goal is not to "convert" anyone. My goal is to love them, love them well, and love them more than I knew I, or anyone else could love. This is my second family that is closer to me than the majority of my first family. I can't change a man, I do believe God can though. God changed my life, but it wasn't because of someone trying to convert me. I was a depressed, drunk, drug addict who crushed my best friend by accident. I missed being his bestman because I was on a two month long, blackout-drug binge. I woke up on disgusting couch in a drug house, I hitchhiked back home, and their I attempted to overdose and committ suicide. I'm still alive, God loved the hell out of me in a very personal to me way, and I can't force that on others by a goal of converting people, nor would I want to. Life change is not something you can't "fake it til you make it," at least not in my experience.

My goal with the Pygmies is most everything I've stated before, and dreams of seeing greater things than I could imagine are also my hopes. I want to see their lives radically different, because a few people believed it was possible... Believed it was possible by laying their own goals down for the goals of another, or by laying down the love for themself for the love of others.

I'm on my own personal journey... But I don't know if I should call myself a Christian anymore because of the stereotypes that come with it are so broad, so different, and honestly I feel 99% of them don't explain who I feel I am, or who I aspire to be. Jesus is different to many... To muslims he is a prophet, jehovah witnesses have a different Jesus, to mormons he is something else, to you he is fake, to me... He is love. For me, Jesus doesn't ask me to convert people, to me, for my life, He ask me to love people in every opportunity I am given.

Today or tomorrow I will meet with a man who was a bodyguard for the second in command of the LRA. He has killed at least 78 people. He has mutilated hundreds. He used to ask people in small villages they would raid... "long sleeve, short sleeve, or vest?" Why am I meeting with him? Because I feel I am suppose to love him, and I am excited for the opportunity. He will be helping me find safe transport through Uganda and to my destination in Congo. I've heard his life is different. I want to see it for myself.

My goal is to love people bro. I think when you here this word you probably hear, "I want to judge people" or, "I want to convert people." Here is the thing, I believe that if that is my goal then it is NOT a no strings attached kind of love. No strings attached is the kind of love I want to have, that I want to implement, and that I believe Jesus has for us. Jesus loved all people and the only people he confronted were the religious people of that time, who thought they knew everything, who were educated in the law but had no love. He hung out with the overlooked people, the poor people, sometimes hated people, the jacked up people, the postitutes, the drunks, the thieves, the adulterers, the handicap, very rarely the religious experts, etc.

I'm trying to find a way to explain this to you best. The kind of love I want to show them is practical. The kind of love I DESIRE to show them is radical. The reason I say want to and desire to is because I'm not perfect. However, I believe the kind of love I want to show them is this... It's a love that contends for the highest good in every situation. A love that fights for whats right in every circumstance. A love that changes the atmosphere when it is present, not because it's forcing itself on weak minded people, but because it brings light the darkness and it brings life in the face of death.

I'm going to a place where I held a dead baby, and then buried him because he was rejected hospital treatment. His mom was told by doctors and nurses, "you are too dirty to come in here." and when refering to her son they said, "We wont waste our medicine on that Pygmy animal." When I dug his grave they asked me to dig her grave as well because she was close behind him. We didn't have to do that thankfully. The first or second water well I drill will be next to Andibo, that baby boy's grave.

I don't say this to say "look at what I did." I say this to say... It isn't preaching at people... doing religious stuff... or force feeding people beliefs that I look at as loving people. Converting people to have a literal checklist of how many "souls were won" can be interpretted as love by some, but it's that very thing that I think makes you sick, and me too. I believe one of my greatest acts of love wasn't in a church, wasn't doing something religious, it was FAR away from a physical church, and it required a lot of physical labor. It was not sitting back and watching starving slaves dig a grave... but grabbing the shovel and letting them rest, eat, drink, and mourn their loss. Now I get to go back to this place and dig a water well right next to the grave I dug. This... As hard as it is, is love. It's contending for the greatest possible good in every situation. I believe that is God's kind of love.

Continued below...

11/2/13 2:10 AM
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justinthevikingwren
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Edited: 11/02/13 4:53 AM
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Continued from above....

I'll give you a soundbite that you can use against me. I want to see the Pygmies set free physically, and I want to see that region set free spritually. Hopefully you will let me explain.

Physically: I want to see 1,000+ Pygmies set free and kept free. Acutally, I want to see all of them free'd. Both are much bigger task than I'm prepared for... However, I want to see them own at least 400 acres, hopefully more like 1,235 acres (5 square km's). I want to expand on the crops of corn, beans and rice that have already been produced with avacados, pineapples, and a coffee farm. I want to see them go from sleeping on dirt or in the mud while under twig and leaf huts to living in a earthbag home that I learned to build from calearth.org. I want to see them go from drinking stagnant water that kills them slowly through parasites and disease to having clean water from a well I learned to drill from water4.org. I want to see 50 homes minumum built and 12 water wells minimum drilled. I want to teach their slavemasters too... To keep peace but also to love them in spite of their big time faults on many occassions. Maybe teaching them to drill their own wells, or giving them a well in exchange for their slaves, or teaching them better farming techniques, or purchasing land from them that we can now farm, or showing them better home building techinques... Maybe this is the very thing to change their hearts towards the pygmies... I want to see a Pygmy school built, pygmies educated, so that they can no longer be denied their citizenship. and so on...

Spiritually: I want to see freedom. Freedom from religion. I want to see freedom from witchcraft that says to hunt, kill, and eat people. I want to see freedom from a type of christianity that says following a bunch of rules is better than following a person named Jesus. But, I also want myself to be free of these things. Spritually, this is all I desire, but something I will not force on anyone... Some religious experts (fools) came to Jesus and tried to trick him and say... What is the greatest of all the commandments? Jesus responded by saying I'll give you a new commandment. Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Then in the very next breath he said... I will give you another that is EQUALLY as important. Love others as you love yourself. He said that this is the basis, the foundation, the reason for any of the law and all of the bible. Love God, love people. I feel like I filter things through my own kind of KISS method "Keep It Simple Stupid" or "Keep It Simple Son."

I'm not saying that these people have to love God, in fact, they don't. If they don't love God and it changes my love for them than I am not really a Christ follower. I am called to love people, not convert people. I'm called to love people practically, and hopefully radically. It's suppose to be tangible. True love is a game changer. It turns the world upside down. It has no strings attached. It contends for the best. And it brings freedom. The bible says Jesus came to fulfill the law, and to give freedom from it. He did not come to chain people to it, and niether will I. If people want a personal relationship with Jesus like I have it, I will show them, and hopefully they will go much farther, jump much higher, and live much better than I ever will. However, I hope they can just look at me, and (again hopefully) see... No one has to live in bondage to any sort of religion. That they can be free from a bunch of rules and they can have a simple filter... Love God, Love People. If they don't want to love God, at least they'll hopefully love people a little better because I traded a comfort zone for a confilct zone to love them, a people who are totally and absolutely different than me. 

Loving others as I love myself... That is what I want to do. If I love them as I love myself I will do whatever it takes to see them not only survive, but thrive. I will make sure they eat, I will make sure they know how to feed themselves... Why? Because I would do that for myself. I will make sure they have clean water, because I have clean water. I will try and make sure I contend for the greatest good in every one of their circumstances, because I try to do that for myself.

Flame away yo.


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