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11/14/13 1:26 PM
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Lazer MMA
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I guess my point overall is they all have detriments in the discussion. The question is who's are the biggest.
11/14/13 1:38 PM
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Kerouac
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RyannVonDoom - You spelled FEDOR wrong. Phone Post 3.0

Sorry, but Fedor lost that chance when Go-Rorse triangled him...then Bigfoot mangled him...then Hendo bombed him.


At least the comp he lost to was not sub par

Which one is subpar, Hughes or Serra?

How many Pride/UFC titles did Bigfoot and Go-Horse win?

If you ask me, Serra = Hendo when it comes to having lost to a smaller fighter.


LMFAO @ comparing Serra to Hendo. It shows your desperation to fantasize clearly.

Name me Matt's best 5 wins himself please? Who did those guys beat @ WW (best wins) themselves too.

I never compared their fighting abilities, I compared their sizes to their opponents.

Why do you need to shit on Matt Serra to prop up Fedor?

11/14/13 1:41 PM
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Kerouac
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Lazer MMA - 
I guess my point overall is they all have detriments in the discussion. The question is who's are the biggest.

Here it is then...are you ready?

Fedor lost 3 fights in a row. Two to non champions and one to someone, literally, one weight class smaller than he is.

GSP lost to Hughes ( Champion ) when he had a handfull of fights and then lost to Serra, 3 years later.

GSP > Fedor > A.Silva
11/14/13 1:46 PM
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Lazer MMA
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RyannVonDoom - You spelled FEDOR wrong. Phone Post 3.0

Sorry, but Fedor lost that chance when Go-Rorse triangled him...then Bigfoot mangled him...then Hendo bombed him.


At least the comp he lost to was not sub par

Which one is subpar, Hughes or Serra?

How many Pride/UFC titles did Bigfoot and Go-Horse win?

If you ask me, Serra = Hendo when it comes to having lost to a smaller fighter.


LMFAO @ comparing Serra to Hendo. It shows your desperation to fantasize clearly.

Name me Matt's best 5 wins himself please? Who did those guys beat @ WW (best wins) themselves too.

I never compared their fighting abilities, I compared their sizes to their opponents.

Why do you need to shit on Matt Serra to prop up Fedor?



No I'm not a fan of Fedor, AS or GSP
11/14/13 1:52 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Kerouac - 
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I guess my point overall is they all have detriments in the discussion. The question is who's are the biggest.

Here it is then...are you ready?

Fedor lost 3 fights in a row. Two to non champions and one to someone, literally, one weight class smaller than he is.

GSP lost to Hughes ( Champion ) when he had a handfull of fights and then lost to Serra, 3 years later.

GSP > Fedor > A.Silva


Well if you want to look at that equation firstly I'd ask again for Hughes 5 best wins (frankly if the data could be accompanied by whom those fighters also beat A WW too it would be best). Forgetting about belts lets look at resumes only.

Hendo is a damn cave man. He has a good record @ HW FFS. You can't shit on any fighter too much for a loss to him IMO.

I have no dog in the fight. I think the answer is unclear TBH
11/14/13 1:57 PM
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JamesTheWelshDR
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1. Fedor
2. Gsp
3. Andy Phone Post 3.0
11/14/13 2:01 PM
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Kerouac
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I guess my point overall is they all have detriments in the discussion. The question is who's are the biggest.

Here it is then...are you ready?

Fedor lost 3 fights in a row. Two to non champions and one to someone, literally, one weight class smaller than he is.

GSP lost to Hughes ( Champion ) when he had a handfull of fights and then lost to Serra, 3 years later.

GSP > Fedor > A.Silva


Well if you want to look at that equation firstly I'd ask again for Hughes 5 best wins (frankly if the data could be accompanied by whom those fighters also beat A WW too it would be best). Forgetting about belts lets look at resumes only.

Hendo is a damn cave man. He has a good record @ HW FFS. You can't shit on any fighter too much for a loss to him IMO.

I have no dog in the fight. I think the answer is unclear TBH

If it's unclear why argue with me?

If you have no dog in the fight then why would you take the time to type " At least the comp he lost to was not sub par"?

Anyway, like I said, GSP > Fedor when talking about GOAT, right now.
11/14/13 2:02 PM
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Kerouac
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NewOldNewVitor - God you turds are so stupid when it comes to talking about GOATS and Fedor.

Let me break this down for you brain handicapped people

It took Fedor 30 professional fights to truely taste a real loss.

Anderson Silva lost early

GSP lost in middle of his career DURING HIS PRIME


GSP has been knocked out on his feet
Anderson Silva has been knocked out on this feet
..Fedor has NEVER ONCE been dropped by a punching standing and he ate shots from true heavyweights.


Yes all 3 have been submitted. Fedor being submitted by FAR by the best grappler of all 3..Werdum who may dethrone Cain.

Fedors 3 losses were to Hendo who is on TRT and was LHW champ of strikeforce, Fedor had 0 to gain and trained for 21 days.

Werdum who HASNT LOSS since, besides bad overeem decision, and BIG FOOT has fought for UFC TITLE TWICE.

Werdum ranked #2, Big foot ranked #5. and Fedor fought all these guys completely out of his prime and they all struggled vs Fedor.

Hendos TKO, not KO of Fedor was one of luckiest punches in MMA history , it wasnt even a KO, and he threw 2 H-Bombs to back of Fedors head.

Big Foot hit him with 100 SLEDGE FUCKING HAMMER shots and couldnt stop fedor, Ref stopped cause of his eye.

In my eyes, Werdum has the only real win, and highly impressive, but he got dropped and had to trick Fedor into jumping his guard, Fedors just a badass.


Its also about how you entertain and HOW you beat people.

For god sake I love GSP but he couldnt finish fucking DAN HARDY, the guy doesnt entertain, and Silva has ran during fights as well.


Moral of the story: Fedor is the GOAT of MMA by miles and miles.

GSP and Anderson can be debated.

/End Thread

"Hendos TKO, not KO of Fedor was one of luckiest punches in MMA history , it wasnt even a KO, and he threw 2 H-Bombs to back of Fedors head."


You're a fucking moron
11/14/13 2:04 PM
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Kerouac
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Fedor never dropped Werdum...Go-Horse goaded him in.
11/14/13 2:06 PM
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eljamaiquino
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GSP is the only one of the 3 who lost in his prime though. Fedor had a longer run of dominance IMO. Tough call. I like Fedor and Silva better because of the way they fought. Anderson is more efficient with his strikes. Anderson also has more sub wins as Champ which is crazy considering GSP is touted as more well rounded. Phone Post
11/14/13 2:10 PM
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Kerouac
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eljamaiquino - GSP is the only one of the 3 who lost in his prime though. Fedor had a longer run of dominance IMO. Tough call. I like Fedor and Silva better because of the way they fought. Anderson is more efficient with his strikes. Anderson also has more sub wins as Champ which is crazy considering GSP is touted as more well rounded. Phone Post

At 33 or 34 years old, Fedor was still in his Prime.

Was Anderson too young when he lost to Chonan and Takase?

Come onnnnnn
11/14/13 2:43 PM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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"Lyoto fought BJ @ HW."

lol @ defending Lyoto by saying he took a HW fight with a lightweight who is now at 145.
11/14/13 3:26 PM
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GaryColeman
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God damn it! You people make me sick. Don't hijack someone's thread with your delusional bullshit, you're worst than Christians.
Just respect his opinion and stop pushing yours on him. Fuck! Phone Post 3.0
11/14/13 3:31 PM
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Jaybrone
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Everyone who can be called "GOAT" has something people can point to as a weakness.

Fedor: Years of selective match making and often faced less then the best.

Anderson: Middleweight wasn't always the deepest division in the UFC.

GSP: Dominates but often is very safe and doesn't finish enough.

Lets all admit that it doesn't matter who you think is the "GOAT" those 3 are at this point in MMA history 1-3 in some order. Do we really need to shit on their accomplishments to make our argument that one is better than the other? Can't we just accept that they are all great in their own respect and appreciate the skill they showed us?

11/14/13 3:48 PM
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FETT_ Cains._Burrito_In_My_BrownEye
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Kerouac -
Lazer MMA - 
I guess my point overall is they all have detriments in the discussion. The question is who's are the biggest.

Here it is then...are you ready?

Fedor lost 3 fights in a row. Two to non champions and one to someone, literally, one weight class smaller than he is.

GSP lost to Hughes ( Champion ) when he had a handfull of fights and then lost to Serra, 3 years later.

GSP > Fedor > A.Silva
Thats a fine opinion but you have to respect that many people value actually finishing your opponents and doing so in devastating fashion. This sport originated from that, and finishing people is very important to many.

Thats why Anderson or Fedor are GOAT to the vast majority over GSP.

GSP is hands down the greatest ATHLETE the sport has ever seen, and a master of gameplanning. He is not the GOAT to the vast majority because he fights to win on points without taking the risks that AS/Fedor took to finish. Phone Post
11/14/13 4:10 PM
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crazydave
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11/14/13 4:10 PM
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Kerouac
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FETT_ Cains._Burrito_In_My_BrownEye - 
Kerouac -
Lazer MMA - 
I guess my point overall is they all have detriments in the discussion. The question is who's are the biggest.

Here it is then...are you ready?

Fedor lost 3 fights in a row. Two to non champions and one to someone, literally, one weight class smaller than he is.

GSP lost to Hughes ( Champion ) when he had a handfull of fights and then lost to Serra, 3 years later.

GSP > Fedor > A.Silva
Thats a fine opinion but you have to respect that many people value actually finishing your opponents and doing so in devastating fashion. This sport originated from that, and finishing people is very important to many.

Thats why Anderson or Fedor are GOAT to the vast majority over GSP.

GSP is hands down the greatest ATHLETE the sport has ever seen, and a master of gameplanning. He is not the GOAT to the vast majority because he fights to win on points without taking the risks that AS/Fedor took to finish. Phone Post

That's a good argument.

I just like the fact that GSP has avenged his losses and that he literally dominated everyone he's faced. Other than his two losses and his fight with Condit, how many times was he getting smashed on?

My opinion won't change until Fedor avenges at least one of his last 3 losses and Silva beats Weidman twice.
11/14/13 5:20 PM
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Billyz
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solid argument can be made for him as GOAT regardless of finishing. he has all the records to show continued dominance from rounds won to title defenses wins etc.
Still Fedor was just something special and at HW it makes it that much more amazing.
11/14/13 5:21 PM
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eljamaiquino
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Kerouac -
eljamaiquino - GSP is the only one of the 3 who lost in his prime though. Fedor had a longer run of dominance IMO. Tough call. I like Fedor and Silva better because of the way they fought. Anderson is more efficient with his strikes. Anderson also has more sub wins as Champ which is crazy considering GSP is touted as more well rounded. Phone Post

At 33 or 34 years old, Fedor was still in his Prime.

Was Anderson too young when he lost to Chonan and Takase?

Come onnnnnn
Lol. Come on bro. Anderson was working at Mickey dees when he fought those guys. GSP was champ and training full time when Serra KTFO him.

Fight career is normally 10-11 years before dropoff. Fedor was past that when he lost 3 straight. GSP Is actually just past there. It might be a good idea to retire now before the game retires him. Silva should be done now too. Phone Post
11/14/13 5:38 PM
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XcessiveZ
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NewOldNewVitor - God you turds are so stupid when it comes to talking about GOATS and Fedor.

Let me break this down for you brain handicapped people

It took Fedor 30 professional fights to truely taste a real loss.

Anderson Silva lost early

GSP lost in middle of his career DURING HIS PRIME


GSP has been knocked out on his feet
Anderson Silva has been knocked out on this feet
..Fedor has NEVER ONCE been dropped by a punching standing and he ate shots from true heavyweights.


Yes all 3 have been submitted. Fedor being submitted by FAR by the best grappler of all 3..Werdum who may dethrone Cain.

Fedors 3 losses were to Hendo who is on TRT and was LHW champ of strikeforce, Fedor had 0 to gain and trained for 21 days.

Werdum who HASNT LOSS since, besides bad overeem decision, and BIG FOOT has fought for UFC TITLE TWICE.

Werdum ranked #2, Big foot ranked #5. and Fedor fought all these guys completely out of his prime and they all struggled vs Fedor.

Hendos TKO, not KO of Fedor was one of luckiest punches in MMA history , it wasnt even a KO, and he threw 2 H-Bombs to back of Fedors head.

Big Foot hit him with 100 SLEDGE FUCKING HAMMER shots and couldnt stop fedor, Ref stopped cause of his eye.

In my eyes, Werdum has the only real win, and highly impressive, but he got dropped and had to trick Fedor into jumping his guard, Fedors just a badass.


Its also about how you entertain and HOW you beat people.

For god sake I love GSP but he couldnt finish fucking DAN HARDY, the guy doesnt entertain, and Silva has ran during fights as well.


Moral of the story: Fedor is the GOAT of MMA by miles and miles.

GSP and Anderson can be debated.

/End Thread
Troll or retard. Phone Post 3.0
11/14/13 5:42 PM
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Kerouac
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eljamaiquino - 
Kerouac -
eljamaiquino - GSP is the only one of the 3 who lost in his prime though. Fedor had a longer run of dominance IMO. Tough call. I like Fedor and Silva better because of the way they fought. Anderson is more efficient with his strikes. Anderson also has more sub wins as Champ which is crazy considering GSP is touted as more well rounded. Phone Post

At 33 or 34 years old, Fedor was still in his Prime.

Was Anderson too young when he lost to Chonan and Takase?

Come onnnnnn
Lol. Come on bro. Anderson was working at Mickey dees when he fought those guys. GSP was champ and training full time when Serra KTFO him.

Fight career is normally 10-11 years before dropoff. Fedor was past that when he lost 3 straight. GSP Is actually just past there. It might be a good idea to retire now before the game retires him. Silva should be done now too. Phone Post

Right on bro!
11/14/13 6:04 PM
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BDW_1983
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"A gentleman and a warrior" - YES
Goat - NO
And I cant see him finishing Hendrix. Phone Post 3.0
11/14/13 6:09 PM
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upaloompa
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Edited: 11/14/13 6:11 PM
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@Newoldvitor

With all due respect man, I'm a huge Fedor fan but this post is partisan to the point of dishonesty. Fedor is my favourite fighter of all time, and the HW goat but this is frankly just spun to the point of sounding crazy.<

30 fights- Fights against RANKED HEAVYWEIGHTS are what matters. Ogawa, Fujita, lindland, choi. Using 30 fights as if they were all against top (or even decent) competition is completely missing the point. A 30 fight streak with one third of them being bums is not impressive as a 15 fight streak against ranked opponents. The biggest problem with this argument is it takes away from what Fedor DID do which was beat close to a dozen ranked fighters in a row. Citing all 30 doesn't say nearly as much as citing those dozen. It's those wins that allow us to put him in context with other goats, not ogawa and fujita. It just isn't that much of a point without quality of comp factored in and then it becomes super heavily qualified.

GSP lost at the start of his prime, this idea that Fedor only lost outside of his prime is completely untrue. There were NO talks of that after arlovski when Fedor was still the best heavy in the world, or after rogers but suddenly as soon as he loses he's past prime? Nonsense. You don't go from having a series of brutal carreer defining knockouts against top competition to being useless. Going into that Werdum fight Fedor looked every bit as good as he did against Tim, the thing is he wasn't fighting Tim. He may have mentally changed, but in terms of age, skillset and physical ability he was every bit still "prime". It's dishonest revisionist history like saying Fedor never beat anyone to say Fedor was anything but going into that Werdum fight. Also, once we allow "mentally past prime" in it ruins your argument because it applies the same to a young GSP who may have "mentally yet to reach his prime". The Fedor that fought in SF was physically well conditioned, explosive like never before with a big experience gap vs his younger self. Fedor also didn't suffer injuries to slow him down like many others. You don't see Wandy and Chuck style dementia inducing Ko's when you look at Fedor. He was healthy, fit, with more experience the only thing that may have been lacking was inside his head, which once again makes your point meaningless.

>Hendo was way past his prime, and as you can see by his performance vs other LHWs in the fights that followed it's hard to hold him as some sort of world beater at this point. He's one of the greatest ever easily and there's no shame in that loss but you only have to actually watch the fights to understand that the Hendo that beat Fedor wasn't a world beater, nor was he ranked in the same division.<br /><br />Bigfoot got stopped brutally both times, and the second shot he didn't earn. No sane person thought that fight was close. Yes he's a top ranked HW but being the #5 guy in the world doesn't absolve the guy you're arguing for as being the single best ever from losing to him. It's a legit loss, and it's at the least difficult to try to just explain it away like it's okay, especially with bigfoots meh UFC run.

>Werdum is 100% legit and 100% won via intelligence. Fedor's grappling was never on that level and we saw it there. Fedor is an A+ level grappler and BB, but his ground game was never highly technical on the level of a Werdum.

"Lucky punch" isn't an argument ever under any circumstances unless he tried to hit him in the chest and hit him in the chin, there was nothing lucky about it and that stoppage was legit. You can't just take wins away from people because you don't like them. Hendo won via doing what Hendo does, there's no mystery there, Fedor knew what he was going in to and got stopped anyways.<br /><br />A ref stoppage is LOSING. Period.

Once we've gotten this out of the way, we can get down to real metrics like division dominance, title defenses, quality of opposition and finishing percentage. Fedor's in contention for all of these, so there's no need to try to justify all his losses, let him stand on his merits.<


In this context, I think he's tied with Georges and Andy for division dominance at his peak (although Georges defended his belt more) and finished spectacularly. The issue is that Georges has fought tougher competition with no easy ones in between.<br /><br />I`m not saying Fedor isn`t the GOAT, he may very well be but I don`t think it`s for the reasons you gave. Wins vs top ranked comp within ones division is probably the most legit measurement and in this respect Georges, Anderson and Fedor are all within striking distance of one another. When it comes to ranking them amongst themselves it boils down to what you find most important. For me that`s quality of comp, for others that might be finishing. All 3 candidates can be disparaged, GSP doesn`t finish, Fedor fought a lot of shaky competition, Anderson was king over a weak division, all three lost (none significantly past prime). What matters when evaluating them is their dominance of their division, and then it`s usually a matter of personal preference for other criteria.

In this respect, it`s not entirely unreasonable to rank Georges first as when it comes to quality opponents he has been every bit as dominant as his peers in contention. Whether he gets number one boils down to what subjective criteria you hold the highest. I think quality of opposition is number one, then longetivity, then finishing so I give it to Georges. You might value other criteria differently, but it`s not the end of any discussion. Realistically the only way I see anyone changing their belief is if we can find a concrete way of establishing criteria by which we judge Goats. Otherwise they`re all kinda close and I think a good case can be made for Georges depending on your criteria.
11/14/13 6:14 PM
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FETT_ Cains._Burrito_In_My_BrownEye
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Kerouac -
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Kerouac -
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I guess my point overall is they all have detriments in the discussion. The question is who's are the biggest.

Here it is then...are you ready?

Fedor lost 3 fights in a row. Two to non champions and one to someone, literally, one weight class smaller than he is.

GSP lost to Hughes ( Champion ) when he had a handfull of fights and then lost to Serra, 3 years later.

GSP > Fedor > A.Silva
Thats a fine opinion but you have to respect that many people value actually finishing your opponents and doing so in devastating fashion. This sport originated from that, and finishing people is very important to many.

Thats why Anderson or Fedor are GOAT to the vast majority over GSP.

GSP is hands down the greatest ATHLETE the sport has ever seen, and a master of gameplanning. He is not the GOAT to the vast majority because he fights to win on points without taking the risks that AS/Fedor took to finish. Phone Post

That's a good argument.

I just like the fact that GSP has avenged his losses and that he literally dominated everyone he's faced. Other than his two losses and his fight with Condit, how many times was he getting smashed on?

My opinion won't change until Fedor avenges at least one of his last 3 losses and Silva beats Weidman twice.
I wont try and change your opinion. I just look at GOAT as a fighters entire career and avenging specific losses doesnt matter much in most situations.
The reality is that Andy and Georges are not done yet, so it hard to be decisive. If they bith stopped fighting right now, even with the Andy loss to Wiedman, I still have Anderson > GSP. I tend to favor devistation and finishes more than most I guess... Phone Post
11/14/13 6:16 PM
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FETT_ Cains._Burrito_In_My_BrownEye
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Umpalumpa thanks for editing that mess!!!

That is a very rational breakdown of it all. Great post. Phone Post

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