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11/21/13 3:20 PM
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Ari2
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BJJBuster - 
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TSMontana -
Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.
You understand the old system does what you blame Obamacare for. Someone isn't insured, you pay their hospital bills. Phone Post 3.0
No the hospital writes it off as charity or sues the person who doesn't pay. It's not as if the hosp sends taxpayers a bill.

I worked in medical billing and they have lawyers on retainer. Don't pay, go to collections, get sued. Then they garnish you. That's how that works.

I am sorry op. Phone Post 3.0

the hospital also raises the cost of the procedure etc to compensate for those who don't pay. the hospital passes taht cost on to the health insurance providers and the providers pass it on to those of us who had insurance in the form of higher premiums.

so you're correct, the taxpayer doesn't pay, the responsible people do.
11/21/13 4:24 PM
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jcblass
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This is all just opening the door for Hilarycare. She will run on this, she tried to have her hand in health care before. She will say that Obama's attempt was good natured but ultimately flawed and she has the real solution. We will be back arguing this shit all over again in a few years.
11/21/13 4:42 PM
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ano8tsixxx
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I cant wait til the good people at the IRS start looking into my health care needs. Those people are the best!



Oh and I hear those navigators who will help me through the health care matrix are highly trained as well. I would totally trust them with all my personal information.
11/21/13 4:56 PM
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BJJBuster
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Ari2 -
BJJBuster - 
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Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.
You understand the old system does what you blame Obamacare for. Someone isn't insured, you pay their hospital bills. Phone Post 3.0
No the hospital writes it off as charity or sues the person who doesn't pay. It's not as if the hosp sends taxpayers a bill.

I worked in medical billing and they have lawyers on retainer. Don't pay, go to collections, get sued. Then they garnish you. That's how that works.

I am sorry op. Phone Post 3.0

the hospital also raises the cost of the procedure etc to compensate for those who don't pay. the hospital passes taht cost on to the health insurance providers and the providers pass it on to those of us who had insurance in the form of higher premiums.

so you're correct, the taxpayer doesn't pay, the responsible people do.
Now yes u r correct on that. I've always said we need reform but this was in no way shape or form the "right answer" Phone Post 3.0
11/21/13 4:56 PM
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BJJBuster
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In addition tax payers do pay for people who can't pay their bill ie Medicaid. But then again if we have Medicaid why do we need obamacare? Answer we dont Phone Post 3.0
11/21/13 5:02 PM
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Ari2
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BJJBuster - In addition tax payers do pay for people who can't pay their bill ie Medicaid. But then again if we have Medicaid why do we need obamacare? Answer we dont Phone Post 3.0

you're saying you would just prefer to expand medicaid to a larger bracket of people?

well, Obamacare actually did that. Some of the states were able to reject that provision after the SCOTUS ruling though, and that's left some people without a subsidy or medicaid.

Besides the pre-existing condition thing and the profit cap thing (probably the two bset things that the ACA does), the nice thing about the ACA is taht is tries to force who can afford insurance to buy it, instead of just leaving things up to luck and sticking those who have insuranec with the bill when they have an accident and need emergency services.
11/21/13 5:16 PM
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banco
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TSMontana - 
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Spazzo - Single payer would have been much better than Obamacare. But it would never have gone anywhere in congress, unfortunately. Phone Post 3.0

I agree, which is strange because most Americans have no problem with medicaid and social security.  


I think a certain generation (baby boomers) has no problem with it. Everyone else after them knows that they will only see a fraction of the benefits they pay in, if anything at all.

At least some of the opposition from the baby boomers to obamacare was that it was a shift in taxpayer funds from a mostly white elderly population (medicare) towards a majority minority working age population.
11/21/13 5:19 PM
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Rcs476
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TSMontana - Update: my company now is offering a very minimal "preventative care" plan (my HR rep told me there was quite a backlash, when the rug got yanked out from its American workforce). Annual checkup and blood work, two "minor" office visits. That's it. No emergency care. Apparently it is enough to keep someone in compliance with the new law but basically costs the same as what I had before. They are looking to see if they can get their insurance partner to offer the non-ACA-compliant health plans again.

Why didn't they (govt) just leave insurance the fuck alone and provide that (preventative care) as an option from the start? "Keep your plans if you like them"..... AND we will be FORCING insurance companies to offer a low priced preventative care plan. They could even strongly advise that the uninsured sign up for the preventive care plan, but not force you to sign up because you know... the government can't force you to buy shit... That would have been reasonable.

 

TSMontana, did they give you a price for this plan?

 

Also weird that this bare minimum coverage complies with the ACA guidelines, but all of these cancelled plans (that were not simply preventative care) did not. Fishy fishy.

11/21/13 5:23 PM
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Ari2
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TSMontana - 
Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.

sounds like a case of preexisting bias.

your boss just gave you pay cut, and you not only took it lying down, you blamed someone else! that's awesome.

your employer could have, and should have taken the money he previously paid into your health insurance plan, and given it to you. But it sounds like that isn't what happened. In fact, it sounds like he just used this as an excuse to give you a pay cut.
11/21/13 5:48 PM
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TSMontana
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Rcs476 - 
TSMontana - Update: my company now is offering a very minimal "preventative care" plan (my HR rep told me there was quite a backlash, when the rug got yanked out from its American workforce). Annual checkup and blood work, two "minor" office visits. That's it. No emergency care. Apparently it is enough to keep someone in compliance with the new law but basically costs the same as what I had before. They are looking to see if they can get their insurance partner to offer the non-ACA-compliant health plans again.

Why didn't they (govt) just leave insurance the fuck alone and provide that (preventative care) as an option from the start? "Keep your plans if you like them"..... AND we will be FORCING insurance companies to offer a low priced preventative care plan. They could even strongly advise that the uninsured sign up for the preventive care plan, but not force you to sign up because you know... the government can't force you to buy shit... That would have been reasonable.

 

TSMontana, did they give you a price for this plan?

 

Also weird that this bare minimum coverage complies with the ACA guidelines, but all of these cancelled plans (that were not simply preventative care) did not. Fishy fishy.


Yes, they gave me the price. It was essentially the same price for the plan I had before, except it is bare bones with no emergency care coverage at all. I'd say the benefit dropped 10-fold from what I had.
11/21/13 5:58 PM
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Rcs476
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TSMontana -
Rcs476 - 
TSMontana - Update: my company now is offering a very minimal "preventative care" plan (my HR rep told me there was quite a backlash, when the rug got yanked out from its American workforce). Annual checkup and blood work, two "minor" office visits. That's it. No emergency care. Apparently it is enough to keep someone in compliance with the new law but basically costs the same as what I had before. They are looking to see if they can get their insurance partner to offer the non-ACA-compliant health plans again.

Why didn't they (govt) just leave insurance the fuck alone and provide that (preventative care) as an option from the start? "Keep your plans if you like them"..... AND we will be FORCING insurance companies to offer a low priced preventative care plan. They could even strongly advise that the uninsured sign up for the preventive care plan, but not force you to sign up because you know... the government can't force you to buy shit... That would have been reasonable.

 

TSMontana, did they give you a price for this plan?

 

Also weird that this bare minimum coverage complies with the ACA guidelines, but all of these cancelled plans (that were not simply preventative care) did not. Fishy fishy.


Yes, they gave me the price. It was essentially the same price for the plan I had before, except it is bare bones with no emergency care coverage at all. I'd say the benefit dropped 10-fold from what I had.
That sucks. Sorry man. Hopefully they fix this garbage. Phone Post 3.0
11/21/13 6:00 PM
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TSMontana
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Edited: 11/21/13 6:05 PM
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Ari2 - 
TSMontana - 
Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.

sounds like a case of preexisting bias.

your boss just gave you pay cut, and you not only took it lying down, you blamed someone else! that's awesome.

your employer could have, and should have taken the money he previously paid into your health insurance plan, and given it to you. But it sounds like that isn't what happened. In fact, it sounds like he just used this as an excuse to give you a pay cut.

Why would they refund my premiums? I had insurance for a reasonable number of scenarios that may have happened to me (car accident, injury while training, etc.)...I just didn't need it. That's how insurance works. I think a lot of people are mixing up insurance with pre-paid full-price medical care. I had the former, not the latter. You pay less, but it is also time-limited to when the premiums are current for the policy, and non-refundable. I also had a nice HSA, which the max allowed contributions have now been reduced, so I could pay for whatever medical expenses I had.

I paid the majority of the amount of the premiums for the policy. If I got a pay cut, it was a pittance, and certainly not worth leaving the job I have. I'd be probably a "rich person" you'd want to redistribute from, even though I barely cleared 6 figures this past year, pre-tax, busting my ass with 60 hour work weeks. Fuck people like yourself trying to shame people like myself.
11/21/13 6:04 PM
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Ari2
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"I paid the majority of the amount of the premiums for the policy"

then you probably won't be losing much if you bargain for it on einsurance or on the state exchanges.

"I'd be probably a "rich person" you'd want to redistribute from, even though I barely cleared 6 figures this past year, pre-tax, busting my ass with 80 hour work weeks."

easy there, we have similar incomes.
11/21/13 6:07 PM
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TSMontana
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Ari2 - "I paid the majority of the amount of the premiums for the policy"

then you probably won't be losing much if you bargain for it on einsurance or on the state exchanges.

"I'd be probably a "rich person" you'd want to redistribute from, even though I barely cleared 6 figures this past year, pre-tax, busting my ass with 80 hour work weeks."

easy there, we have similar incomes.

That may be where our similarities end. If you worked as hard for it as I do, you wouldn't have the attitude you have, unless you had a serious guilt complex.
11/21/13 6:09 PM
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Ari2
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TSMontana - 
Ari2 - "I paid the majority of the amount of the premiums for the policy"

then you probably won't be losing much if you bargain for it on einsurance or on the state exchanges.

"I'd be probably a "rich person" you'd want to redistribute from, even though I barely cleared 6 figures this past year, pre-tax, busting my ass with 80 hour work weeks."

easy there, we have similar incomes.

That may be where our similarities end. If you worked as hard for it as I do, you wouldn't have the attitude you have, unless you had a serious guilt complex.

let's just stay on topic here. the fact that my job is better than yours is irrelevant.

now, you said that you employer wasn't subsidizing your insurance before...so what's the issue?

11/21/13 6:14 PM
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TSMontana
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Ari2 - 
TSMontana - 
Ari2 - "I paid the majority of the amount of the premiums for the policy"

then you probably won't be losing much if you bargain for it on einsurance or on the state exchanges.

"I'd be probably a "rich person" you'd want to redistribute from, even though I barely cleared 6 figures this past year, pre-tax, busting my ass with 80 hour work weeks."

easy there, we have similar incomes.

That may be where our similarities end. If you worked as hard for it as I do, you wouldn't have the attitude you have, unless you had a serious guilt complex.

let's just stay on topic here. the fact that my job is better than yours is irrelevant.

now, you said that you employer wasn't subsidizing your insurance before...so what's the issue?


I'd pay full price for the old policy I had at the price it was at. That policy would have costed 400% more, if it were kept, after ACA happened. Everything about my job and my relation to my job stayed the same. Only thing different is Obamacare. The ripple effects are turning out to be devastating.
11/21/13 6:19 PM
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Ari2
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have you looked on the exchange to see what you can get there? I freelance, and I used to get an individual policy. Maybe like 6 years ago I was paying like 550/month for it. Then I joined the freelancers union (which isn't really a union, but did allow me to bargain as part of a group) and started paying about 275/month for that policy which was similar to what I had. Now 5 years later It's at 345/month. I looked on the exchange for my state and they are offering similar plans to individuals for 360/month.

so, long story short, look on your exchange. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.
11/21/13 6:21 PM
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TSMontana
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Ari2 - have you looked on the exchange to see what you can get there? I freelance, and I used to get an individual policy. Maybe like 6 years ago I was paying like 550/month for it. Then I joined the freelancers union (which isn't really a union, but did allow me to bargain as part of a group) and started paying about 275/month for that policy which was similar to what I had. Now 5 years later It's at 345/month. I looked on the exchange for my state and they are offering similar plans to individuals for 360/month.

so, long story short, look on your exchange. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

Go fuck yourself.

(and, yes, I took the bait...so troll successful)
11/21/13 6:26 PM
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Ari2
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TSMontana - 
Ari2 - have you looked on the exchange to see what you can get there? I freelance, and I used to get an individual policy. Maybe like 6 years ago I was paying like 550/month for it. Then I joined the freelancers union (which isn't really a union, but did allow me to bargain as part of a group) and started paying about 275/month for that policy which was similar to what I had. Now 5 years later It's at 345/month. I looked on the exchange for my state and they are offering similar plans to individuals for 360/month.

so, long story short, look on your exchange. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

Go fuck yourself.

(and, yes, I took the bait...so troll successful)

that's a weird response

I'll take it to mean you haven't looked into it.
11/21/13 6:31 PM
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Ari2
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I'm also unclear as to the reasoning why your companies rates went up to much. I (like an employee at a company) get my insurance via a group and our rate hasn't gone up at all...for the last 3 years in fact.
11/21/13 6:38 PM
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Freeman
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I'm just curious what people who are up in arms about the ACA would think of a true national healthcare system/

I agree the ACA sucks. But would you support a real national healthcare system?

 

11/21/13 9:23 PM
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BJJBuster
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Ari2 -
BJJBuster - In addition tax payers do pay for people who can't pay their bill ie Medicaid. But then again if we have Medicaid why do we need obamacare? Answer we dont Phone Post 3.0

you're saying you would just prefer to expand medicaid to a larger bracket of people?

well, Obamacare actually did that. Some of the states were able to reject that provision after the SCOTUS ruling though, and that's left some people without a subsidy or medicaid.

Besides the pre-existing condition thing and the profit cap thing (probably the two bset things that the ACA does), the nice thing about the ACA is taht is tries to force who can afford insurance to buy it, instead of just leaving things up to luck and sticking those who have insuranec with the bill when they have an accident and need emergency services.
No never said I want to expand Medicaid I said Medicaid is the example of how taxes do in fact pay for low income ins. I didn't suggest we need more of it. Only 15 % of ppl didn't have ins. As a business owner I have a private policy and even under sac my pre existing stuff won't get covered.

My opinion is to let ins compete across state lines and implement tort reform etc Phone Post 3.0
11/21/13 9:26 PM
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disbeliever
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Ari2 - 
TSMontana - 
Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.

sounds like a case of preexisting bias.

your boss just gave you pay cut, and you not only took it lying down, you blamed someone else! that's awesome.

your employer could have, and should have taken the money he previously paid into your health insurance plan, and given it to you. But it sounds like that isn't what happened. In fact, it sounds like he just used this as an excuse to give you a pay cut.

Sounds like a case of you not putting blame where it belongs as usual, on both sides.

Without ACA his policy would never have been canceled.

Without a shitty boss he would have been cut a check for what was being contributed to his plan to fend for himself.
11/21/13 10:16 PM
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Badmonkey
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Ari2 - 
TSMontana - 
Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.

sounds like a case of preexisting bias.

your boss just gave you pay cut, and you not only took it lying down, you blamed someone else! that's awesome.

your employer could have, and should have taken the money he previously paid into your health insurance plan, and given it to you. But it sounds like that isn't what happened. In fact, it sounds like he just used this as an excuse to give you a pay cut.

Sounds like a case of you not putting blame where it belongs as usual, on both sides.

Without ACA his policy would never have been canceled.

Without a shitty boss he would have been cut a check for what was being contributed to his plan to fend for himself.

Partially true; his boss is going to be taxed a percentage of payroll for not providing the coverage. whether it will be equal/greater/less than the coverage that was provided would be interesting to know.



11/22/13 3:17 AM
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Spazzo
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ano8tsixxx - I cant wait til the good people at the IRS start looking into my health care needs. Those people are the best!



Oh and I hear those navigators who will help me through the health care matrix are highly trained as well. I would totally trust them with all my personal information.
So, why will the IRS be doing anything with your healthcare? You seem confused. Phone Post 3.0

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