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11/22/13 3:29 AM
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Ridgeback
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You all might as well just post your entire medical history on facebook and get it over with, because it is nearly a guaranteed certainty that this once very private information is going to leak and be accessible by a whole slew of entities. 

11/22/13 11:06 AM
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TSMontana
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Edited: 11/22/13 11:19 AM
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Ridgeback - 


You all might as well just post your entire medical history on facebook and get it over with, because it is nearly a guaranteed certainty that this once very private information is going to leak and be accessible by a whole slew of entities. 


Which is exactly why I seethe and laugh when these ACA supporters like Ari suggest going onto healthcare.gov. I want to stay out of the government databases, as much as I can, for as long as I can.

Once again, I do not blame my employer at all, and they are not to blame at all in this instance. They got a great price because we didn't have to support seniors, the unemployed, people on welfare, and disabled people, and had a pool of healthy people to insure. I couldn't have gotten that same rate on my own before ACA. I certainly can't now in my state (Texas), where the average increase in premiums for people in my age bracket is right around 70-100% (don't need to go onto healthcare.gov to figure out that I'd be paying through the nose, LOL). All my company did was negotiate the pricing and have a small overhead cost to manage the benefits program. They may have paid a pittance towards the actual coverage.

I 100% blame the ACA for the situation I am now faced with. Any blame on my employer would be unwarranted. Trust me on this.
11/22/13 11:22 AM
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the chief
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Cause & Effect. The cause of his loss is a combination of his employer's financial choice (or ability) and the ACA, mostly the ACA. His boss could choose to cover him and the increased costs, but doing that on a wide scale can instantly ruin a company, especially if they're running on slim profit margins.

Obviously Ari doesn't understand how business and the system works, but he raises a point; Businesses can choose to keep covering their employees and everything might just work out, right?

But there are going to likely be unseen consequences that those employees will not see until one day, they might get called to a meeting where a couple assholes are sitting across a table staring at them, pondering their usefulness to the company and asking how much they like listening to Michael Bolton.
11/22/13 11:32 AM
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Ari2
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a 35 year old non smoker in Houston who makes 100k can get a silver plan for $230/month. Now you said that price should be about double what you used to pay, which means you were paying $115/month. Which means that youre looking at an increase of 4 bucks a day. considering the advantages of Obamacare (preexisting conditions, no lifetime caps) I'd say that's a pretty fair deal.

but please go on about what a victim you are. the worlds smallest violin is playing for you.
11/22/13 11:35 AM
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Ari2
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"His boss could choose to cover him and the increased costs,"

his claim is that his boss did no subsidize his insurance.
11/22/13 11:36 AM
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Ridgeback
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Ari2 - a 35 year old non smoker in Houston who makes 100k can get a silver plan for $230/month. Now you said that price should be about double what you used to pay, which means you were paying $115/month. Which means that youre looking at an increase of 4 bucks a day. considering the advantages of Obamacare (preexisting conditions, no lifetime caps) I'd say that's a pretty fair deal.

but please go on about what a victim you are. the worlds smallest violin is playing for you.

When you talk to Obama next time can you ask him for my crack pipe back.

11/22/13 11:45 AM
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TSMontana
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Edited: 11/22/13 11:47 AM
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Ari2 - a 35 year old non smoker in Houston who makes 100k can get a silver plan for $230/month. Now you said that price should be about double what you used to pay, which means you were paying $115/month. Which means that youre looking at an increase of 4 bucks a day. considering the advantages of Obamacare (preexisting conditions, no lifetime caps) I'd say that's a pretty fair deal.

but please go on about what a victim you are. the worlds smallest violin is playing for you.

I want MY plan back at the price I was paying without a government telling me what health care is best for me and forcing me to support others who I have no responsibility for through drastically increased premiums.

My entire point is none of this would have ever happened if the ACA wasn't passed. That is irrefutable, no matter how much of a sell job you try to do.
11/22/13 11:52 AM
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Thage
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TSMontana - 
Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.

Look I seriously feel for you because spending more isn't a good thing. I hope everything works out for you.

However it is partially due to your employer making that decision. My healthcare premiums were actually cut in half, and if I didn't go to the doctor alot I would see a HUGE savings this year, but I do go alot, and my expenses will be roughly the same.

As far as "footing the bill for people that are not your concern" again, you already do that. We all pay for people using the ER like a doctors office.


Again I'm sorry you're probably going to have higher healthcare costs, but it's ridiculous to say your employer holds no responsibility. They made the decision that adding funds as a benefit to their employees was something they were not willing to do. Some companies care about the well being and support of their employees, some companies care more about profit. Others I'm sure can't afford it and make this decision, but usually you're able to shift things around to provide better benefits to your employees.
11/22/13 12:04 PM
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Ari2
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TSMontana - 
Ari2 - a 35 year old non smoker in Houston who makes 100k can get a silver plan for $230/month. Now you said that price should be about double what you used to pay, which means you were paying $115/month. Which means that youre looking at an increase of 4 bucks a day. considering the advantages of Obamacare (preexisting conditions, no lifetime caps) I'd say that's a pretty fair deal.

but please go on about what a victim you are. the worlds smallest violin is playing for you.

I want MY plan back at the price I was paying without a government telling me what health care is best for me and forcing me to support others who I have no responsibility for through drastically increased premiums.

My entire point is none of this would have ever happened if the ACA wasn't passed. That is irrefutable, no matter how much of a sell job you try to do.

100 bucks a months isn't a "drastic increase" for a guy making 6 figures.

the govt isnt tellign you what healthcare is best for you, in fact, now that you won't be on your company plan you have many more choices than you did before. You were already supporting others (via your premiums) who you had no responsibility for.

as for this not happening without the ACA, I suppose that is true to an extent, but if your employer wasn't subsidizing your health insurance (as you claim), then I see no reason why the ACA has caused their expenses to go up in any significant way, and thus no reason for them to cancel the plan. if I've misunderstood something then please correct me. but if I haven't then there are only 2 possibilities

a)your employer was subsidizing your plan, and you didn't know it, and thus you've just taken a pay cut

b)your employer just canceled your plan for no reason at all other than perhaps partisan bullshit.
11/22/13 12:07 PM
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TSMontana
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Thage - 
TSMontana - 
Spazzo - Seems you have more of a problem with a shitty employer than Obamacare. Phone Post 3.0

No, I completely blame Obamacare. Without it, I would still have the same coverage. I don't blame my company for doing what they did. They shouldn't have to help foot the bills of people that are not of their concern, just like I shouldn't.

Look I seriously feel for you because spending more isn't a good thing. I hope everything works out for you.

However it is partially due to your employer making that decision. My healthcare premiums were actually cut in half, and if I didn't go to the doctor alot I would see a HUGE savings this year, but I do go alot, and my expenses will be roughly the same.

As far as "footing the bill for people that are not your concern" again, you already do that. We all pay for people using the ER like a doctors office.


Again I'm sorry you're probably going to have higher healthcare costs, but it's ridiculous to say your employer holds no responsibility. They made the decision that adding funds as a benefit to their employees was something they were not willing to do. Some companies care about the well being and support of their employees, some companies care more about profit. Others I'm sure can't afford it and make this decision, but usually you're able to shift things around to provide better benefits to your employees.

There are people in certain states that are getting some benefit from this. You seem to be one of them. However, a lot more are going to become victims to the ACA's after-effects.

"As far as "footing the bill for people that are not your concern" again, you already do that. We all pay for people using the ER like a doctors office."

True, but I don't like that either, for the same reason. I wish hospitals would just turn those people away who don't have life-threatening conditions. My city (Austin, TX) has local clinics in low-income areas open during business hours, that see people for things like influenza, asthma, and broken bones. The doctors are basically volunteering their time to these places out of goodwill. If more used these clinics, they'd probably get even better care than they would with some overloaded E.R. G.P. doc who barely has enough time to make a best guess at a treatment.

My employer offered the plans as a favor to its employees. It was never a right....and if I were so offended that it was taken away, I am free to find another employer, or go into business for myself (which I am now considering more, now that I don't have a good benefit plan tied to my employer). I refuse to make my employer the villain here. I work for them, they pay me money. Anything else is a "nice to have".
11/22/13 12:11 PM
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the chief
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"the govt isnt tellign you what healthcare is best for you"

The nonsensicle new mandated standards and high rate of cancelled plans say otherwise.

 

" I see no reason why the ACA has caused their expenses to go up in any significant way, and thus no reason for them to cancel the plan."

I'm just curious as to how you were able to obtain the financial records of TSMontana's employer. You must by privy to some information the rest of us aren't to be able to make such a claim.

 

 

11/22/13 12:13 PM
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the chief
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"We all pay for people using the ER like a doctors office"

Hmmmmm.......what do ER costs of the uninsured amount to...something like 2% overall? If so, it doesn't seem like the 'epidemic' some would have us believe in terms of driving up healthcare costs.
11/22/13 12:14 PM
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Ari2
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"The nonsensicle new mandated standards and high rate of cancelled plans say otherwise."

I disagree that most of the standards are nonsensical. but that's a digression.


"'m just curious as to how you were able to obtain the financial records of TSMontana's employer. You must by privy to some information the rest of us aren't to be able to make such a claim."

actually, I'm privy to the info he's provided, that you seem to ahve missed.

if his employer is NOT PAYING FOR HIS INSURANCE, as he claims, how can their expenses go up?
11/22/13 12:15 PM
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Thage
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TSMontana - 
Ridgeback - 


You all might as well just post your entire medical history on facebook and get it over with, because it is nearly a guaranteed certainty that this once very private information is going to leak and be accessible by a whole slew of entities. 


Which is exactly why I seethe and laugh when these ACA supporters like Ari suggest going onto healthcare.gov. I want to stay out of the government databases, as much as I can, for as long as I can.

Once again, I do not blame my employer at all, and they are not to blame at all in this instance. They got a great price because we didn't have to support seniors, the unemployed, people on welfare, and disabled people, and had a pool of healthy people to insure. I couldn't have gotten that same rate on my own before ACA. I certainly can't now in my state (Texas), where the average increase in premiums for people in my age bracket is right around 70-100% (don't need to go onto healthcare.gov to figure out that I'd be paying through the nose, LOL). All my company did was negotiate the pricing and have a small overhead cost to manage the benefits program. They may have paid a pittance towards the actual coverage.

I 100% blame the ACA for the situation I am now faced with. Any blame on my employer would be unwarranted. Trust me on this.

Seriously, this is garbage.

Stay out of government databases? Really?

Did you miss the NSA story?

If the government wants to know everything about TSMontana they can find it. Applying for healthcare doesn't change that.

You can have objections to the ACA but this is weak sauce.
11/22/13 12:22 PM
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Thage
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And health insurance via an employer isn't a "favor", it's a BENEFIT of employment.

If a company wants to attract good talent, and keep them happy they give good pay and benefits, or at least better pay to compensate for not offering benefits.

You certainly do have the option to seek employment with a better company or go out on your own which is awesome if you can.
11/22/13 12:24 PM
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Ari2
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I still want to know how his employers costs can go up when they don't pay for the insurance.

something is fishy in denmark.
11/22/13 12:25 PM
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the chief
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Thage - 
TSMontana - 
Ridgeback - 


You all might as well just post your entire medical history on facebook and get it over with, because it is nearly a guaranteed certainty that this once very private information is going to leak and be accessible by a whole slew of entities. 


Which is exactly why I seethe and laugh when these ACA supporters like Ari suggest going onto healthcare.gov. I want to stay out of the government databases, as much as I can, for as long as I can.

Once again, I do not blame my employer at all, and they are not to blame at all in this instance. They got a great price because we didn't have to support seniors, the unemployed, people on welfare, and disabled people, and had a pool of healthy people to insure. I couldn't have gotten that same rate on my own before ACA. I certainly can't now in my state (Texas), where the average increase in premiums for people in my age bracket is right around 70-100% (don't need to go onto healthcare.gov to figure out that I'd be paying through the nose, LOL). All my company did was negotiate the pricing and have a small overhead cost to manage the benefits program. They may have paid a pittance towards the actual coverage.

I 100% blame the ACA for the situation I am now faced with. Any blame on my employer would be unwarranted. Trust me on this.

Seriously, this is garbage.

Stay out of government databases? Really?

Did you miss the NSA story?

If the government wants to know everything about TSMontana they can find it. Applying for healthcare doesn't change that.

You can have objections to the ACA but this is weak sauce.

Not just the NSA dude. I take it you didn't catch the multitudes of stories about how much healthcare.gov is vulnerable to hackers due to its' weak security. It's a treasure trove for folks in the identity-theft business.

If anyone put their info on that site, the NSA should be the least of their worries.
11/22/13 12:27 PM
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TSMontana
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Thage - 
TSMontana - 
Ridgeback - 


You all might as well just post your entire medical history on facebook and get it over with, because it is nearly a guaranteed certainty that this once very private information is going to leak and be accessible by a whole slew of entities. 


Which is exactly why I seethe and laugh when these ACA supporters like Ari suggest going onto healthcare.gov. I want to stay out of the government databases, as much as I can, for as long as I can.

Once again, I do not blame my employer at all, and they are not to blame at all in this instance. They got a great price because we didn't have to support seniors, the unemployed, people on welfare, and disabled people, and had a pool of healthy people to insure. I couldn't have gotten that same rate on my own before ACA. I certainly can't now in my state (Texas), where the average increase in premiums for people in my age bracket is right around 70-100% (don't need to go onto healthcare.gov to figure out that I'd be paying through the nose, LOL). All my company did was negotiate the pricing and have a small overhead cost to manage the benefits program. They may have paid a pittance towards the actual coverage.

I 100% blame the ACA for the situation I am now faced with. Any blame on my employer would be unwarranted. Trust me on this.

Seriously, this is garbage.

Stay out of government databases? Really?

Did you miss the NSA story?

If the government wants to know everything about TSMontana they can find it. Applying for healthcare doesn't change that.

You can have objections to the ACA but this is weak sauce.

They can stab me, but I'm not going to provide the knife and expose my underbelly.
11/22/13 12:30 PM
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TSMontana
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the chief - 
Thage - 
TSMontana - 
Ridgeback - 


You all might as well just post your entire medical history on facebook and get it over with, because it is nearly a guaranteed certainty that this once very private information is going to leak and be accessible by a whole slew of entities. 


Which is exactly why I seethe and laugh when these ACA supporters like Ari suggest going onto healthcare.gov. I want to stay out of the government databases, as much as I can, for as long as I can.

Once again, I do not blame my employer at all, and they are not to blame at all in this instance. They got a great price because we didn't have to support seniors, the unemployed, people on welfare, and disabled people, and had a pool of healthy people to insure. I couldn't have gotten that same rate on my own before ACA. I certainly can't now in my state (Texas), where the average increase in premiums for people in my age bracket is right around 70-100% (don't need to go onto healthcare.gov to figure out that I'd be paying through the nose, LOL). All my company did was negotiate the pricing and have a small overhead cost to manage the benefits program. They may have paid a pittance towards the actual coverage.

I 100% blame the ACA for the situation I am now faced with. Any blame on my employer would be unwarranted. Trust me on this.

Seriously, this is garbage.

Stay out of government databases? Really?

Did you miss the NSA story?

If the government wants to know everything about TSMontana they can find it. Applying for healthcare doesn't change that.

You can have objections to the ACA but this is weak sauce.

Not just the NSA dude. I take it you didn't catch the multitudes of stories about how much healthcare.gov is vulnerable to hackers due to its' weak security. It's a treasure trove for folks in the identity-theft business.

If anyone put their info on that site, the NSA should be the least of their worries.

Another good point. No IT Security professional testifying before Congress would say that website is secure to prevent attacks. And even if the system wasn't attacked, there's good old-fashioned corruption...

11/22/13 12:30 PM
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the chief
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Thage - And health insurance via an employer isn't a "favor", it's a BENEFIT of employment.

If a company wants to attract good talent, and keep them happy they give good pay and benefits, or at least better pay to compensate for not offering benefits.

You certainly do have the option to seek employment with a better company or go out on your own which is awesome if you can.

I agree with this, it is a benefit and it was originally used to entice good talent to profitable companies.

However, I think we both agree it has gone far beyond this. I personally think employee-covered healthcare on a wide-scale is an unsound idea that was facilitated by the fact that one could receive tax subsidies via employer-health insurance, but not individual. Now it is becoming mandatory as a part of employment.

But this discussion is somewhat beyond the perview of this thread. Jumping back into the discussion of the flawed system, TSMontana is correct. If he and his employer are both forced into this bullshit game of ACA, then the blame must be pointed to the top. People feel the need to micro-manage the argument simply to reinforce their biased opinion, but they only perpetuate their own informational gaps.
11/22/13 12:31 PM
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Ari2
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Ari2 - I still want to know how his employers costs can go up when they don't pay for the insurance.

something is fishy in denmark.

still waiting. don't ignore this. it's a key part of your story.
11/22/13 12:36 PM
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TSMontana
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Edited: 11/22/13 12:39 PM
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Ari2 - I still want to know how his employers costs can go up when they don't pay for the insurance.

something is fishy in denmark.

I actually asked my HR Rep (who I have good relations with), and they apparently were faced with new standards for its benefits people, to keep up with the regulations of the law (translation, more money for more training). Could be also that the pittance they were paying would then become quite more, just to keep our premium payments out of the stratosphere, but he couldn't disclose whether that was true. Either way, none of that was in play when I was hired on almost a decade ago, so to expect that from my employer is silly.

Like Thage alluded to, I don't have to stay. I could go uproot my career and find another employer willing to offer benefits. However, for anyone not to squarely put this not on ACA is just an apologist.
11/22/13 12:39 PM
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gregbrady
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lol

good posts by Ari2

employer gives worker paycut. worker blames democrats.
11/22/13 12:41 PM
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Ari2
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" they apparently were faced with new standards for its benefits people"

If I'm understanding this correctly then they were giving some people health insurance (not you), and now due to the mandated new requirements they are cutting the plan. So they are giving those people a pay cut, and you got caught in the blowback.

well, that sucks, the good news is that bargaining for individuals is a much better process now, and your concerns about identity theft not withstanding, you won't be taking a large financial hit.
11/22/13 12:43 PM
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TSMontana
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gregbrady - lol

good posts by Ari2

employer gives worker paycut. worker blames democrats.

I think it's very indicative of the values divide of this country.

Some people think business is pure evil and should be subservient to every worker's wish and desire, at the expense of providing value to the owners and the business's customers.

Some people realize they have to provide value and get compensated fairly...and when a government decides to impose a wealth and benefits re-distribution, they see the bullshit for what it is, and don't let the blame get distorted by the former group.

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