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UnderGround Forums >> Cyborg is coming for Rhonda


12/29/13 9:03 PM
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BertR
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LardArseScaretyCat - You suggest pulling a champion from a division to accommodate a fighter that's not even in the organization. What if Cyborg wins then, what do you do with the rest of the 135, make them go to 145 to fight Cyborg for the 135 belt? Are you serious?!

Ronda's not being pulled she can still be champion of the 135 pound division. What the fight with Cyborg will do is give clarity over who the best fighter in women's mma is since many consider them to be the two best in it and the UFC continues to make the claim that they're about having the best fighters fight. There wouldn't be an issue if they just marketed Ronda as the best 135lm wmma fighter in the UFC, but they don't do that they market Ronda as the best in the world despite Cyborg being out there and there only being a 20lb difference in weight classes (or 10 considering Cyborg has fought so far at 145 but is moving up to 155)
12/29/13 9:09 PM
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If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much
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BertR - "Let me get this right, UFC medical team and Dolce are biased to the UFC but you don't think her own Dr is biased towards her?

Please clarify that.

UFC is not trying to avoid the fight, they will make it at 135 and Cyborg refuses to see UFC Drs, let Dolce help her or even attempt to make 135."

had to cut off that quote chain. Getting too long.

I never said that her doctor wasn't possibly biased in favour of her. I don't know her doctor. What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests, she will probably be more responsive with the advice of someone whom she knows and believes to be more empathetic to her long-term health interests in relation to the effects of a weight cut on her and her potential to bear children than the company she wants to hire herself out to and be exploited so they can maximize their profits and brand growth. Her doctor doesn't have the same pressures and has most likely a better personal relationship with her to offer her less-politicized medical advice.

The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145 says they and Ronda are avoiding the fight. 135 or bust is an artificial limit that Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at. If they want to avoid the fight by allowing a catchweight, that's unfortunate but at the same time please don't go around claiming Ronda is the best female mma fighter when you're avoiding a fight with cyborg.

This is all simple but it's being made convoluted because the UFC is putting their business and marketing interests once again over allowing the best fighters fight, and they're not only doing that but also marketing Ronda as the best female fighter on the planet despite blocking her from fighting someone who many feel is a better fighter.

"What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests"

If that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids.
She used it as a negotiating tactic to try to get the fight at her weight class before the BW WMMA division in the UFC was established. For enough money she will stop doing roids and go to 135.

--

"The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145"

It's not a catchweight if thats the normal weight Cyborg fights at, lol.

--

"Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at 135"

Didn't her camp even say it was possible at one point.
Also, she won't let any other Dr or Dietitian see her so it's pointless to say she isn't medically cleared. She actually is if she cut the weight but "her Dr" advised her against it.
12/29/13 9:12 PM
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If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much
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BertR - 
LardArseScaretyCat - You suggest pulling a champion from a division to accommodate a fighter that's not even in the organization. What if Cyborg wins then, what do you do with the rest of the 135, make them go to 145 to fight Cyborg for the 135 belt? Are you serious?!

Ronda's not being pulled she can still be champion of the 135 pound division. What the fight with Cyborg will do is give clarity over who the best fighter in women's mma is since many consider them to be the two best in it and the UFC continues to make the claim that they're about having the best fighters fight. There wouldn't be an issue if they just marketed Ronda as the best 135lm wmma fighter in the UFC, but they don't do that they market Ronda as the best in the world despite Cyborg being out there and there only being a 20lb difference in weight classes (or 10 considering Cyborg has fought so far at 145 but is moving up to 155)

Catch weight fight at 140 which was talked about would only make sense if the UFC brought in the 145lb division which they won't do because their is not enough talent in it. No point to push another fighter and then have her leave the org, it's a bad business move for the UFC. Especially considering she can make 135lbs but refuses to do so and has failed drug tests. That fight will NEVER happen at catch weight in the UFC.
12/29/13 9:15 PM
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Mustard Tiger
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BertR - 
Mustard Tiger - It won't happen until Cyborg drops Tito as a manager.

The UFC was going to pick up the tab for her Invicta fights and the services of Dolce to ensure a healthy cut to 135. Tito's counter offer? Release her from her Strikeforce (UFC) contract.

So now she's still fighting for Invicta, no Dulce, and no connection with the UFC.

Tito Ortiz deserves respect for his accomplishments in the cage, but as far as his business decisions; Tito is about as smart as a bag of hammers.

If the UFC has a vendetta against Tito and using that against Cyborg, the UFC should be criticized for playing politics at the expense of having the two best fighters female fighters fight.

It's nice that the UFC would pick up the tab for her Invicta fights which makes it all the more unfortunate she's not medically cleared to fight at 135. Dolce isn't a doctor so he has nothing to do with this because the issue isn't with losing weight since i'm sure Cyborg can cut weight. Because Dolce doesn't have the medical expertise to evaluate Cyborgs situation he wont be able to help her come up with a safe diet plan if a safe diet plan were even possible in Cyborgs case, which according to her doctor it isnt

Cyborg talked about making the cut to 135 when Zuffa purchased Strikeforce:
They (Zuffa) asked me if I could do it. I can try; it's not impossible. Let's see... - Cyborg
Prior to testing positive for PEDs, the UFC also seemed ready to build a division around Cyborg:
The suspension of Santos "pretty much" ends the 145-pound division, said Dana White.

"We were going to hold that division and just do fights with Cyborg whenever there was a new contender," White said Friday during a radio interview with ESPN 1100 Las Vegas. "She's getting stripped of the title. I don't know. We'll see what happens."
Enter Primetime 360 Entertainment & Sports Management; the weight cut became a point of negotiation, epic press conferences were held, and the cut is suddenly impossible.

It was a cardiologist who nixed the idea of the 135 weight cut for Cyborg. This advice was given during her year long suspension, for PED use (Winstrol), and based on her current health.

Heart + Steroids + Weight Cut = No bueno.

It would have been unethical for the cardiologist not to voice major concern.

Nobody is claiming Mike Dolce is a doctor either. But if he can get Lombard to 170, it's likely he can help Cyborg reach a healthy 135.

So Tito negotiated Cyborg out of a four-fight contract with the UFC, work with a nutritional wizard, and a nearly guaranteed big payday fight with Ronda Rousey.

The only vendetta is the one Tito has with intelligence.
12/29/13 9:21 PM
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Pontious_Pilates
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MRXC - If Cyborg can ever get to 135 (regardless of all these armchair MMA fans who yammer on about 'juicing' considering how many fighters have been popped for it, Cyborg is clearly not an outlier, so in reality, one instance of making a mistake, years ago, is really irrelevant today) she would give Ronda a serious fight.

Rousey was rocked more than once yesterday by Tate, who trows decent hands, but has no power and average coordination. Cyborg is the best stand-up fighter in WMMA and has rag dolled many Women on the feet.

Cyborg would be the stiffest test of Ronda's short career, that in reality has been filled with some cream puffs.

McMann could beat her, cause she will take her down and grind her, and Rousey was looking tired 3 minutes into round one yesterday.

Cat has stand-up that took Tate through the wood chipper. She could bop Ronda in the beak and take the belt.

All the easy fights, not to shit on Tate, but they were easy, are in the past now. Now Ronda has 3 straight fights of real Women who can match everything she does, save for the Judo. And Judo ain't everything. If it was Karo and Ishii would be world beaters.

Lack of credible competition doesn't make you the best, just the best at the time.

If Ronda beats McMann, Cat and Cyborg then I would consider her the GOAT in WMMA. At this point, despite her 'status' in the media, Marloes Coenen, Cyborg Justino & Tara LaRosa have accomplished more.

Ronda needs a Cyborg fight more than Cyborg needs Ronda in the annals of history, today.
The first solid argument I have seen in this thread. Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 9:31 PM
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BertR
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If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
BertR - "Let me get this right, UFC medical team and Dolce are biased to the UFC but you don't think her own Dr is biased towards her?

Please clarify that.

UFC is not trying to avoid the fight, they will make it at 135 and Cyborg refuses to see UFC Drs, let Dolce help her or even attempt to make 135."

had to cut off that quote chain. Getting too long.

I never said that her doctor wasn't possibly biased in favour of her. I don't know her doctor. What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests, she will probably be more responsive with the advice of someone whom she knows and believes to be more empathetic to her long-term health interests in relation to the effects of a weight cut on her and her potential to bear children than the company she wants to hire herself out to and be exploited so they can maximize their profits and brand growth. Her doctor doesn't have the same pressures and has most likely a better personal relationship with her to offer her less-politicized medical advice.

The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145 says they and Ronda are avoiding the fight. 135 or bust is an artificial limit that Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at. If they want to avoid the fight by allowing a catchweight, that's unfortunate but at the same time please don't go around claiming Ronda is the best female mma fighter when you're avoiding a fight with cyborg.

This is all simple but it's being made convoluted because the UFC is putting their business and marketing interests once again over allowing the best fighters fight, and they're not only doing that but also marketing Ronda as the best female fighter on the planet despite blocking her from fighting someone who many feel is a better fighter.

"What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests"

If that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids.
She used it as a negotiating tactic to try to get the fight at her weight class before the BW WMMA division in the UFC was established. For enough money she will stop doing roids and go to 135.

--

"The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145"

It's not a catchweight if thats the normal weight Cyborg fights at, lol.

--

"Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at 135"

Didn't her camp even say it was possible at one point.
Also, she won't let any other Dr or Dietitian see her so it's pointless to say she isn't medically cleared. She actually is if she cut the weight but "her Dr" advised her against it.

"if that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids"

This is a fair point. At the same time, many people do contradictory things in terms of rational self-interest and steroids are "good" in terms of helping her fight instead of hindering it. At the same time, if a doctor was being sincere in there being harmful consequences from it while not being beneficial to her in terms of her fighting it wouldn't be wise for her to do it, including be drained from attempting it. While you point out that Cyborg has an advantage at 145 Ronda has an advantage facing a cut-depleted Cyborg.

The solution is to have it open weight where both fighters come in at whatever weight they're comfortable at. I don't think Zuffa would be too thrilled with that idea, but if they're sincere in their belief that Ronda is better than Cyborg instead of the perception of it, that would be a great opportunity to show it.
12/29/13 9:40 PM
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CaptChaos
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MentaL - 

the ufc offered to pay for dolce to get cyborg to 135,they also offered her a zuffa contract with all the perks and also fight in invicta whilst they sort shit out.. Tito declined it.

 

Thats, right.. they offered her a UFC contract whilst fighting outside of the UFC, amazing and imagine turning that down especially with insurance. Tito is dumb, fair play.


Yeah I don't quite understand her angle. Either she has a Master plan kr she's making some big mistakes and nothing indicates a Master plan!
12/29/13 9:52 PM
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BertR
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Mustard Tiger - 
BertR - 
Mustard Tiger - It won't happen until Cyborg drops Tito as a manager.

The UFC was going to pick up the tab for her Invicta fights and the services of Dolce to ensure a healthy cut to 135. Tito's counter offer? Release her from her Strikeforce (UFC) contract.

So now she's still fighting for Invicta, no Dulce, and no connection with the UFC.

Tito Ortiz deserves respect for his accomplishments in the cage, but as far as his business decisions; Tito is about as smart as a bag of hammers.

If the UFC has a vendetta against Tito and using that against Cyborg, the UFC should be criticized for playing politics at the expense of having the two best fighters female fighters fight.

It's nice that the UFC would pick up the tab for her Invicta fights which makes it all the more unfortunate she's not medically cleared to fight at 135. Dolce isn't a doctor so he has nothing to do with this because the issue isn't with losing weight since i'm sure Cyborg can cut weight. Because Dolce doesn't have the medical expertise to evaluate Cyborgs situation he wont be able to help her come up with a safe diet plan if a safe diet plan were even possible in Cyborgs case, which according to her doctor it isnt

Cyborg talked about making the cut to 135 when Zuffa purchased Strikeforce:
They (Zuffa) asked me if I could do it. I can try; it's not impossible. Let's see... - Cyborg
Prior to testing positive for PEDs, the UFC also seemed ready to build a division around Cyborg:
The suspension of Santos "pretty much" ends the 145-pound division, said Dana White.

"We were going to hold that division and just do fights with Cyborg whenever there was a new contender," White said Friday during a radio interview with ESPN 1100 Las Vegas. "She's getting stripped of the title. I don't know. We'll see what happens."
Enter Primetime 360 Entertainment & Sports Management; the weight cut became a point of negotiation, epic press conferences were held, and the cut is suddenly impossible.

It was a cardiologist who nixed the idea of the 135 weight cut for Cyborg. This advice was given during her year long suspension, for PED use (Winstrol), and based on her current health.

Heart + Steroids + Weight Cut = No bueno.

It would have been unethical for the cardiologist not to voice major concern.

Nobody is claiming Mike Dolce is a doctor either. But if he can get Lombard to 170, it's likely he can help Cyborg reach a healthy 135.

So Tito negotiated Cyborg out of a four-fight contract with the UFC, work with a nutritional wizard, and a nearly guaranteed big payday fight with Ronda Rousey.

The only vendetta is the one Tito has with intelligence.

Nice post.

About Cyborg talking about cutting to 135, i assume the talk came before consultation with her doctors and their recommendations. If steroids played a part in hindering it so be it, but that still doesn't diminish that Cyborg is considered the best female mma fighter our there with Ronda and Ronda isn't fighting her despite knowing that Cyborg isnt medically advised to cut and risk herself as well as be depleted from such a cut.

About Dolce, he isn't a doctor so he can't make the claim the get Cyborg down to a healthy 135 since he isn't qualified to make determinations about "healthy" that contradict medical advice from actual doctors that discourage her from trying.

If the issue is too much money say it's too much money. If the issue is weight say it's too much weight, but if they're saying it's weight don't be deceptive and claim to have the best fighter in the world when you know that there is another fighter out there that is considered by many to be better but isn't fighting in your promotion even though you could have her fight your champion if she moved up 10 pounds.
12/29/13 9:57 PM
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NORCAL707
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Its about time Cyborg grew some balls (pun intended) and decided to make the weight!

Im excited..... Even though its just Cyborgs sad attempt at staying relevant. She couldnt possibly cut the weight now that shes pushed the whole life threatening issue. Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 10:04 PM
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Stea1th
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135 is waiting Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 10:05 PM
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HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe
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BertR - This isn't complicated. Cyborg and Ronda are supposedly the two best female fighters in mma and there is a 20 pound difference between the two. Split the difference in a catchweight at 145 and have them fight it out.

If Ronda continues to win at 135 in the UFC all that means is she's the champion of the UFC 135 pound division. Not the best female fighter and not better than Cyborg. There is nothing special about staying at 135 pounds except it allows Dana to protect her since Cyborg isn't medically advised to cut to that weight. Until she fights Cyborg she will continue to be looked at as ducking her. At least Gina got in the cage with her knowing she was probably going to take the loss and she did.

I am a fan of Ronda. She get's a lot of hate because of her personality but im not put off by it and i admire what she's doing for female mma. At the same time, it's disingenuous for the UFC to make her out to be the best female fighter in the world when she hasn't faced Cyborg.
Apparently it is that hard to understand, cyborg fights at 145, splitting the difference would be 140. I don't give a shit if she decided to take a fight at 155. Phone Post
12/29/13 10:15 PM
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catbath
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I hope Rousey and Cyborg figure out a way to fight, but Rousey doesn't need tonight her to be a star. The crowd yesterday was proof of that. I didn't hear any cyborg chants break out -- and the mainstream media isn't calling for the fight the way they did Mayweather-Pac (and the former is still a massive draw and a GOAT candidate).

These threads are the musings of diehards and not a true reflection of reality. Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 10:15 PM
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JudoknowNothing
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How exactly is she coming for her ? Is she dropping down? Need more details Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 10:17 PM
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TopGrinder
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Cyborg needs to make 135 before she yaps her man jaw any more. Empty words and not backing up shit Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 10:41 PM
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BertR
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TopGrinder - Cyborg needs to make 135 before she yaps her man jaw any more. Empty words and not backing up shit Phone Post 3.0

They're not empty because she'd fight Ronda whenever if it was at 145. Zuffa and Ronda are putting the pressure to make it at 135 despite knowing that it's against medical advice for her to make that level of a cut including, according to an article i just read, that it could be dangerous on her heart.

If Ronda moving up 10 pounds is a deal breaker that gives the impression they're not very confident in her being able to beat a healthy, comfortable Cyborg. Imagine Fedor telling Bigfoot to come down to 230 while having his manager and the promotion he was under saying he's better than him.
12/29/13 10:42 PM
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stonepony
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circa305 - Gina Carano hip tossed Cyborg around like she was nothing.

Ronda would take her down even easier and submit her.

Not to mention the several failed submission attempts from Cyborg. Submissions that she gave up on because she couldn't figure out how to finish them.
12/29/13 11:01 PM
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tbi0904
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BertR -
TopGrinder - Cyborg needs to make 135 before she yaps her man jaw any more. Empty words and not backing up shit Phone Post 3.0

They're not empty because she'd fight Ronda whenever if it was at 145. Zuffa and Ronda are putting the pressure to make it at 135 despite knowing that it's against medical advice for her to make that level of a cut including, according to an article i just read, that it could be dangerous on her heart.

If Ronda moving up 10 pounds is a deal breaker that gives the impression they're not very confident in her being able to beat a healthy, comfortable Cyborg. Imagine Fedor telling Bigfoot to come down to 230 while having his manager and the promotion he was under saying he's better than him.
So you want Zuffa to sign a fighter to a contract she can't fulfill because she's too big for the two divisions they have? If the UFC had a 145 division like Strikeforce did you would have a valid arguement. They don't so everything you've been typing is irrelevent. It's really simple, if she's "coming for Ronda" it will be at 135 and only 135. That not anybody's fault. Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 11:04 PM
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If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much
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BertR - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
BertR - "Let me get this right, UFC medical team and Dolce are biased to the UFC but you don't think her own Dr is biased towards her?

Please clarify that.

UFC is not trying to avoid the fight, they will make it at 135 and Cyborg refuses to see UFC Drs, let Dolce help her or even attempt to make 135."

had to cut off that quote chain. Getting too long.

I never said that her doctor wasn't possibly biased in favour of her. I don't know her doctor. What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests, she will probably be more responsive with the advice of someone whom she knows and believes to be more empathetic to her long-term health interests in relation to the effects of a weight cut on her and her potential to bear children than the company she wants to hire herself out to and be exploited so they can maximize their profits and brand growth. Her doctor doesn't have the same pressures and has most likely a better personal relationship with her to offer her less-politicized medical advice.

The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145 says they and Ronda are avoiding the fight. 135 or bust is an artificial limit that Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at. If they want to avoid the fight by allowing a catchweight, that's unfortunate but at the same time please don't go around claiming Ronda is the best female mma fighter when you're avoiding a fight with cyborg.

This is all simple but it's being made convoluted because the UFC is putting their business and marketing interests once again over allowing the best fighters fight, and they're not only doing that but also marketing Ronda as the best female fighter on the planet despite blocking her from fighting someone who many feel is a better fighter.

"What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests"

If that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids.
She used it as a negotiating tactic to try to get the fight at her weight class before the BW WMMA division in the UFC was established. For enough money she will stop doing roids and go to 135.

--

"The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145"

It's not a catchweight if thats the normal weight Cyborg fights at, lol.

--

"Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at 135"

Didn't her camp even say it was possible at one point.
Also, she won't let any other Dr or Dietitian see her so it's pointless to say she isn't medically cleared. She actually is if she cut the weight but "her Dr" advised her against it.

"if that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids"

This is a fair point. At the same time, many people do contradictory things in terms of rational self-interest and steroids are "good" in terms of helping her fight instead of hindering it. At the same time, if a doctor was being sincere in there being harmful consequences from it while not being beneficial to her in terms of her fighting it wouldn't be wise for her to do it, including be drained from attempting it. While you point out that Cyborg has an advantage at 145 Ronda has an advantage facing a cut-depleted Cyborg.

The solution is to have it open weight where both fighters come in at whatever weight they're comfortable at. I don't think Zuffa would be too thrilled with that idea, but if they're sincere in their belief that Ronda is better than Cyborg instead of the perception of it, that would be a great opportunity to show it.

I think you are the only one on this thread who hasn't grasped the reality of the situation. She CAN make 135 and it's a negotiation ploy on her part saying she can't make it. She will keep winning outside of UFC and eventually move down to 135 for a huge pay day.
12/29/13 11:18 PM
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BertR
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If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
BertR - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
BertR - "Let me get this right, UFC medical team and Dolce are biased to the UFC but you don't think her own Dr is biased towards her?

Please clarify that.

UFC is not trying to avoid the fight, they will make it at 135 and Cyborg refuses to see UFC Drs, let Dolce help her or even attempt to make 135."

had to cut off that quote chain. Getting too long.

I never said that her doctor wasn't possibly biased in favour of her. I don't know her doctor. What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests, she will probably be more responsive with the advice of someone whom she knows and believes to be more empathetic to her long-term health interests in relation to the effects of a weight cut on her and her potential to bear children than the company she wants to hire herself out to and be exploited so they can maximize their profits and brand growth. Her doctor doesn't have the same pressures and has most likely a better personal relationship with her to offer her less-politicized medical advice.

The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145 says they and Ronda are avoiding the fight. 135 or bust is an artificial limit that Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at. If they want to avoid the fight by allowing a catchweight, that's unfortunate but at the same time please don't go around claiming Ronda is the best female mma fighter when you're avoiding a fight with cyborg.

This is all simple but it's being made convoluted because the UFC is putting their business and marketing interests once again over allowing the best fighters fight, and they're not only doing that but also marketing Ronda as the best female fighter on the planet despite blocking her from fighting someone who many feel is a better fighter.

"What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests"

If that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids.
She used it as a negotiating tactic to try to get the fight at her weight class before the BW WMMA division in the UFC was established. For enough money she will stop doing roids and go to 135.

--

"The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145"

It's not a catchweight if thats the normal weight Cyborg fights at, lol.

--

"Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at 135"

Didn't her camp even say it was possible at one point.
Also, she won't let any other Dr or Dietitian see her so it's pointless to say she isn't medically cleared. She actually is if she cut the weight but "her Dr" advised her against it.

"if that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids"

This is a fair point. At the same time, many people do contradictory things in terms of rational self-interest and steroids are "good" in terms of helping her fight instead of hindering it. At the same time, if a doctor was being sincere in there being harmful consequences from it while not being beneficial to her in terms of her fighting it wouldn't be wise for her to do it, including be drained from attempting it. While you point out that Cyborg has an advantage at 145 Ronda has an advantage facing a cut-depleted Cyborg.

The solution is to have it open weight where both fighters come in at whatever weight they're comfortable at. I don't think Zuffa would be too thrilled with that idea, but if they're sincere in their belief that Ronda is better than Cyborg instead of the perception of it, that would be a great opportunity to show it.

I think you are the only one on this thread who hasn't grasped the reality of the situation. She CAN make 135 and it's a negotiation ploy on her part saying she can't make it. She will keep winning outside of UFC and eventually move down to 135 for a huge pay day.

I understand your point but im operating under the assumption that Cyborg isn't lying or her doctor isn't lying about her not being cleared to make the weight cut due to health concerns including over her heart. You may think that that's fine, but that doesn't take away that this fight can be put in the works right now yet it isn't and the UFC is championing Ronda as the best when there is a fighter out there that is viewed to be better by many but isn't being brought in because they don't want to have a fight that's 10 pounds above Ronda's preferring weight class right now (even though she has fought at 145 before).
12/29/13 11:21 PM
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JudoEd
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How many people here really believe that given time and no 'roids, a 5'8" woman can't make 135 lbs? If Guyborg wants the belt, she will have to beat the champion at the champion's weight. I know they are not super healthy, but how much does an average 5'10" runway model weight? 110?

I would rather see Ronda fight Holly Holm. Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 11:25 PM
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BertR
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tbi0904 - 
BertR -
TopGrinder - Cyborg needs to make 135 before she yaps her man jaw any more. Empty words and not backing up shit Phone Post 3.0

They're not empty because she'd fight Ronda whenever if it was at 145. Zuffa and Ronda are putting the pressure to make it at 135 despite knowing that it's against medical advice for her to make that level of a cut including, according to an article i just read, that it could be dangerous on her heart.

If Ronda moving up 10 pounds is a deal breaker that gives the impression they're not very confident in her being able to beat a healthy, comfortable Cyborg. Imagine Fedor telling Bigfoot to come down to 230 while having his manager and the promotion he was under saying he's better than him.
So you want Zuffa to sign a fighter to a contract she can't fulfill because she's too big for the two divisions they have? If the UFC had a 145 division like Strikeforce did you would have a valid arguement. They don't so everything you've been typing is irrelevent. It's really simple, if she's "coming for Ronda" it will be at 135 and only 135. That not anybody's fault. Phone Post 3.0

The UFC can say they think Cyborg is better than Ronda and Ronda can say she thinks Cyborg is better than her and this all goes away. They don't do that. Because they don't do that the question is then why not have them fight it out to see who is better. That's where we get into the muck of this weight class back and forth. According to a previous poster, the UFC was planning on having a 145 class but dropped it in part because of Cyborg testing positive for steroids, so that's a possibility to approach again. Another possibility is Signing her to a 1 fight contract like they did with James Toney.

The issue is the conflict over the UFC making claims about Ronda but setting the conditions for the fight to where Cyborg cant meet them due to being unable to cut to 135 in a medically safe way. Either change the conditions so they fight at 145 or stop making claims about Ronda being the best when it seems like you're protecting her from Cyborg.
12/29/13 11:30 PM
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BertR
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JudoEd - How many people here really believe that given time and no 'roids, a 5'8" woman can't make 135 lbs? If Guyborg wants the belt, she will have to beat the champion at the champion's weight. I know they are not super healthy, but how much does an average 5'10" runway model weight? 110?

I would rather see Ronda fight Holly Holm. Phone Post 3.0

Being champion of 135 means nothing but that. This is about finding out who is the better fighter not who is the better fighter at 135. That's why ideally it'd be an open-weight fight where both come in as comfortable with their bodies before they fight.
12/29/13 11:32 PM
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If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much
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BertR - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
BertR - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
BertR - "Let me get this right, UFC medical team and Dolce are biased to the UFC but you don't think her own Dr is biased towards her?

Please clarify that.

UFC is not trying to avoid the fight, they will make it at 135 and Cyborg refuses to see UFC Drs, let Dolce help her or even attempt to make 135."

had to cut off that quote chain. Getting too long.

I never said that her doctor wasn't possibly biased in favour of her. I don't know her doctor. What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests, she will probably be more responsive with the advice of someone whom she knows and believes to be more empathetic to her long-term health interests in relation to the effects of a weight cut on her and her potential to bear children than the company she wants to hire herself out to and be exploited so they can maximize their profits and brand growth. Her doctor doesn't have the same pressures and has most likely a better personal relationship with her to offer her less-politicized medical advice.

The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145 says they and Ronda are avoiding the fight. 135 or bust is an artificial limit that Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at. If they want to avoid the fight by allowing a catchweight, that's unfortunate but at the same time please don't go around claiming Ronda is the best female mma fighter when you're avoiding a fight with cyborg.

This is all simple but it's being made convoluted because the UFC is putting their business and marketing interests once again over allowing the best fighters fight, and they're not only doing that but also marketing Ronda as the best female fighter on the planet despite blocking her from fighting someone who many feel is a better fighter.

"What i do know is if she's looking out for her own best medical interests"

If that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids.
She used it as a negotiating tactic to try to get the fight at her weight class before the BW WMMA division in the UFC was established. For enough money she will stop doing roids and go to 135.

--

"The UFC making the cut limit at 135 instead of putting on a catch-weight at 145"

It's not a catchweight if thats the normal weight Cyborg fights at, lol.

--

"Cyborg hasn't been medically cleared to fight at 135"

Didn't her camp even say it was possible at one point.
Also, she won't let any other Dr or Dietitian see her so it's pointless to say she isn't medically cleared. She actually is if she cut the weight but "her Dr" advised her against it.

"if that was the case she wouldn't be doing roids"

This is a fair point. At the same time, many people do contradictory things in terms of rational self-interest and steroids are "good" in terms of helping her fight instead of hindering it. At the same time, if a doctor was being sincere in there being harmful consequences from it while not being beneficial to her in terms of her fighting it wouldn't be wise for her to do it, including be drained from attempting it. While you point out that Cyborg has an advantage at 145 Ronda has an advantage facing a cut-depleted Cyborg.

The solution is to have it open weight where both fighters come in at whatever weight they're comfortable at. I don't think Zuffa would be too thrilled with that idea, but if they're sincere in their belief that Ronda is better than Cyborg instead of the perception of it, that would be a great opportunity to show it.

I think you are the only one on this thread who hasn't grasped the reality of the situation. She CAN make 135 and it's a negotiation ploy on her part saying she can't make it. She will keep winning outside of UFC and eventually move down to 135 for a huge pay day.

I understand your point but im operating under the assumption that Cyborg isn't lying or her doctor isn't lying about her not being cleared to make the weight cut due to health concerns including over her heart. You may think that that's fine, but that doesn't take away that this fight can be put in the works right now yet it isn't and the UFC is championing Ronda as the best when there is a fighter out there that is viewed to be better by many but isn't being brought in because they don't want to have a fight that's 10 pounds above Ronda's preferring weight class right now (even though she has fought at 145 before).

Couple things.

Screw the weight cut, we will never agree if she can make it or if it's healthy. You are the ONLY one that doesn't see it for what it is (negotiating tactic).

Let's focus on the potential fight.

Please explain why it makes sense for Zuffa.

They have the best 135lb WMMA fighter in the world so why do a catch weight fight with a girl who will not stay in the UFC. What possible reason is there to do this fight?

Also, quit saying she use to fight at 145. It's been addressed time and time again, she preferred not to do the weight cut at wasn't dieting properly. Now that she is on the correct diet, she is at 135. For you to even suggest they are remotely the same size is laughable.
12/29/13 11:34 PM
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JerodR
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So who is the better fighter? Weidman or Jones? Or Cain... There are weight classes for a reason. You want to challenge the champion then go to their weight class. If you can't cut the weight then you shouldn't even talk about fighting them. It is a mute point. Phone Post 3.0
12/29/13 11:37 PM
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WrestlingSucks
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If she makes 135 lbs, Ronda will put a clinic on her and it won't be close. Don't act like Cyborg is a technician. She gave up many positions against lesser grapplers. She gave Carano mount for a second if I recall correctly.

Once they clinch against the cage, Cyborg would be demoralized quickly.

I would like to see Cyborg fight Tate first at 135 lbs anyhow.

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