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1/8/14 9:41 PM
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sparkuri
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gokudamus stole my name iv - "If weight is important, than muscle/fat ratio must be."

Muscle/fat ratio isn't how the sport is divided. If you were in charge, would you do away with weight classes and make the divisions by muscle/fat ratio? Or reach? Or height? Be honest.

"In that regard, what advantage did Fedor physically have over anyone, save Matt Linland?"

First, I have no idea what Fedor's muscle/fat ratio was in his prime. Most likely similar to Cain Velasquez's. But to answer your question, Fedor had the physical advantage of speed over virtually every single opponent he ever fought, along with the physical advantage of power over most of his opponents as well. But I guess those don't count because he was a couple inches shorter?

What is your hypothesis as to why Fedor carried some flab? He was lazy and didn't want to train or eat properly? Or do you think he and his coaches thought that the extra weight would be an asset for a heavyweight fighter, even though it wasn't all lean muscle? Maybe you should ask Cain and Roy and Barnett and Nog why they don't slim down as well.


You said "one aspect of size is reach", then said the only relevant aspect was weight.
That's an interesting point of view.
The only weight class that even applies to is heavy weight.

To answer your question, at least part of it, if I was in charge I would get rid of all weight classes. Then I would name it the "Ultimate Fighting Championship".

It actually would be ultimate, and Fedor would be the winner Phone Post 3.0
1/8/14 11:28 PM
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onepunchJD
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sparkuri - 
gokudamus stole my name iv - "If weight is important, than muscle/fat ratio must be."

Muscle/fat ratio isn't how the sport is divided. If you were in charge, would you do away with weight classes and make the divisions by muscle/fat ratio? Or reach? Or height? Be honest.

"In that regard, what advantage did Fedor physically have over anyone, save Matt Linland?"

First, I have no idea what Fedor's muscle/fat ratio was in his prime. Most likely similar to Cain Velasquez's. But to answer your question, Fedor had the physical advantage of speed over virtually every single opponent he ever fought, along with the physical advantage of power over most of his opponents as well. But I guess those don't count because he was a couple inches shorter?

What is your hypothesis as to why Fedor carried some flab? He was lazy and didn't want to train or eat properly? Or do you think he and his coaches thought that the extra weight would be an asset for a heavyweight fighter, even though it wasn't all lean muscle? Maybe you should ask Cain and Roy and Barnett and Nog why they don't slim down as well.


You said "one aspect of size is reach", then said the only relevant aspect was weight.
That's an interesting point of view.
The only weight class that even applies to is heavy weight.

To answer your question, at least part of it, if I was in charge I would get rid of all weight classes. Then I would name it the "Ultimate Fighting Championship".

It actually would be ultimate, and Fedor would be the winner Phone Post 3.0

HA!

Nice.
1/8/14 11:33 PM
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igotfrozordfortrainingtrane
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Gsp Phone Post 3.0
1/9/14 10:05 AM
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KingofCommonSense
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Fedor. In his prime... Would throw him around like a rag doll...and put him to sleep anytime he wanted with one punch. Bad bad matchup for AS.
1/9/14 10:14 AM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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"You said "one aspect of size is reach", then said the only relevant aspect was weight. That's an interesting point of view."

It's not that interesting if you understand what I said: "The only one that is relevant as far as divisions in this sport is weight". That is literally true. There are no divisions in this or any other sport that I'm aware of that are based on muscle:fat ratio, or reach, or height. EVERY sport with "size" divisions uses weight and nothing else to set up the classes.

"To answer your question, at least part of it, if I was in charge I would get rid of all weight classes. Then I would name it the "Ultimate Fighting Championship". It actually would be ultimate, and Fedor would be the winner"

No, Fedor would lose to Werdum, Bigfoot, and Dan Henderson. And you would be depriving yourself of some truly fantastic fights. What percentage of your all-time favorite fights were between guys with a significant size disparity?

1/9/14 10:32 AM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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"Here is something to think about. According to todays weight cutting standards, Fedor was a middle weight. "

Fedor was 235lb. By your logic you can make the case that Cain is a middleweight as well (he used to be in the upper 230s), and he has beaten all the best MODERN heavyweights -- including two VERY quick annihilations of the guy who pounded Fedor out.
1/9/14 12:10 PM
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FETT_GayFerPayNINJA
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Olympiclevelthruster - -Fedor never lost while in his prime, baring a shitty cut stoppage.

-Anderson lost twice while in his athletic pime, then lost twice more while in his mental prime

-Fedor was a natural MW-LHW

-Anderson was a natural LHW

Yet one of them went undefeated at HW for 10 years

While the other fought at a weight class lower dominating the weakest division in MMA

Fedor's streak went on longer, and during his streak he fought tougher competition while beating his opponents at their strengths (Nog and Cro Cop etc)

And I liked Anderson more then Fedor but facts are facts. Like I said, anyone who knows MMA, knows Fedor is the GOAT.

There has been no one like Fedor. Gsp is the #2 GOAT though.

And in fact, based on dominance and just resume alone, you could make the case for Gsp being the #1 all time GOAT...Gsp has a hell of more impressive resume then Anderson has.....but all the other intagibles would go to Fedor over Gsp

Anderson was still a great striker though. He has nothing left to prove anymore and surely cementes hinself as one of the best.......its just that Fedor is the GOAT and Gsp is #2
You lost ALL credibility when you say Fedor is a MW/LHW and Andy is a LHW.

There is ZERO logic that supports that in any way. Pure stupidity. Phone Post 3.0
1/9/14 3:01 PM
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SevenLeggedSpider
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orcus, I am on the UG 98% of the time. 

As you can tell from my post count, I am here daily.

 

My question to you, is in your opinion, on the UnderGround section of topics, what percentage would you say your post are on Fedor threads compared to other mma threads?

 

I want to get your opinion of how much time you think you spend on Fedor threads.

1/9/14 8:28 PM
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FETT_GayFerPayNINJA
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Stuven Farlow -
sa80teur - "What the ancients called a clever fighter was not one who wins, but excels in winning with ease. Hence his victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage"
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War.

Anderson. Phone Post 3.0

its easier to win when you are fighting people smaller then you.
Fedor fought people a lot bigger

watch a anderson hihglight and see how many opponents he towers over
Fedors toughest challengers were not much bigger than he was. Especially not weight wise.

Anderson fought many opponents who weighed more than he did in the cage. He is only ~200 in the cage at MW. His LHW opponents were all bigger than he was. Phone Post 3.0
1/9/14 9:42 PM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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"My question to you, is in your opinion, on the UnderGround section of topics, what percentage would you say your post are on Fedor threads compared to other mma threads?"

Good question. Probably pretty high, simply because 1) there is a way higher percentage of threads about Fedor than probably any other one topic, and 2) Fedor threads draw a high percentage of delusional posts from you guys.

I post tons on any topic that interests me that is full of idiotic posts. See: Anderson being a huge middleweight, the scandal of the weights being rounded down in GSP vs Diaz, anything about TRT, etc. I guess I'm obsessed with those too? If retards like Goku made as many threads about GSP cheating as you guys do about how Fedor is the best, I would probably be split 50/50 in terms of my responses.

"Fedor fought people a lot bigger"

How many guys did Fedor beat in his 40 fight career who were "a lot bigger"? And what do you call "a lot"?
1/9/14 10:10 PM
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SevenLeggedSpider
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How many guys did Fedor beat in his 40 fight career who were "a lot bigger"?

 

More than Anderson that's for damn sure.

1/9/14 10:12 PM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
1/10/14 9:06 AM
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FETT_GayFerPayNINJA
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gokudamus stole my name iv - So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
Answer please. :-) Phone Post 3.0
1/10/14 10:18 AM
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sparkuri
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gokudamus stole my name iv - So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
Imo, title defenses mean nothing.
Not for Fedor, Anderson, Hughes, GSP, or anybody else.
It's about the obstacles a man overcomes.
"Title defenses" is window dressing. Phone Post 3.0
1/10/14 10:27 AM
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SKARHEAD
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Fedor all day...fought more dangerous men, period.
1/10/14 11:06 AM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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sparkuri - 
gokudamus stole my name iv - So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
Imo, title defenses mean nothing.
Not for Fedor, Anderson, Hughes, GSP, or anybody else.
It's about the obstacles a man overcomes.
"Title defenses" is window dressing. Phone Post 3.0

Title defenses imply several things: that you're fighting a higher level of competition on average than someone in a non-title fight is; that you have more pressure; and that you have less motivation.
1/10/14 11:09 AM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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"SOOOOOOOOOOO Fedor fought his 1-3 top 5 contenders,"

Fedor fought 1-3 top 5 contenders a year? Really? That's weird because he only had three title defenses in his entire career and one of those was a rematch. Who were these top 5 contenders? Zulu? Coleman? Randleman? Hunt? Ogawa? Goodridge? Fujita? Can you show me any rankings that had any of them in the top 5?



1/10/14 11:25 AM
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sparkuri
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gokudamus stole my name iv -
sparkuri - 
gokudamus stole my name iv - So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
Imo, title defenses mean nothing.
Not for Fedor, Anderson, Hughes, GSP, or anybody else.
It's about the obstacles a man overcomes.
"Title defenses" is window dressing. Phone Post 3.0

Title defenses imply several things: that you're fighting a higher level of competition on average than someone in a non-title fight is; that you have more pressure; and that you have less motivation.
I'm not addressing what it implies, I'm addressing the truth of the matter.
Pressure is relative and nearly impossible to differentiate.
Ask any fighter and you've heard it a million times, every fight is the biggest of their career. Phone Post 3.0
1/10/14 11:58 AM
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Pyro1991
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Anderson. Phone Post 3.0
1/10/14 1:52 PM
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SevenLeggedSpider
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gokudamus stole my name iv - So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
 
Lol, you asked me, and I told you.
 
That's your elaborate indefensable counter argument?
 

"So"

 

That's up there with, "I know you are but what am I"

 

I think you put more emphasis on accomplishments, than you do of fighting dangerous opponents.

Anderson Silva is arguably more accomplished than Randy and Dan and Cain, but could he whoop there ass?  Maybe Dan Henderson at 205.

 

But Randy Couture vs Anderson, I see Randy taking him down and keeping him there and winning by ground n pound. Randy > Chael.

 

Now since you put more emphasis on title defenses, will you keep that same "orcus consistency" that you are renown for, and you would give us your opinion that Jose Aldo is better than Fedor because he has more title defenses right?  Same for Matt Hughes, same for Miguel Torres?

1/10/14 1:53 PM
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SevenLeggedSpider
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"I don't think that tying a belt around your waste, or setting a world record is that important in life.

It's really about what is inside a person. How other people see you, and how you influence them."-Fedor

1/10/14 2:05 PM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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sparkuri - 
gokudamus stole my name iv -
sparkuri - 
gokudamus stole my name iv - So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
Imo, title defenses mean nothing.
Not for Fedor, Anderson, Hughes, GSP, or anybody else.
It's about the obstacles a man overcomes.
"Title defenses" is window dressing. Phone Post 3.0

Title defenses imply several things: that you're fighting a higher level of competition on average than someone in a non-title fight is; that you have more pressure; and that you have less motivation.
I'm not addressing what it implies, I'm addressing the truth of the matter.
Pressure is relative and nearly impossible to differentiate.
Ask any fighter and you've heard it a million times, every fight is the biggest of their career. Phone Post 3.0

You are addressing what it implies, because there is no "truth" to the statement "title defenses mean nothing". Aside from being just another opinion -- like everything else in this discussion -- it's actually literally UN-true, because a title defense MEANS that you're defending the title. It means you're the champion. It means that you're recognized as being the best and/or most accomplished fighter in your promotion.

You are ALWAYS addressing implications in ANY of these arguments. What does fighting bigger opponents "mean"? You give Fedor GOAT because you think fighting bigger guys IMPLIES fighting guys who are harder to beat, and thus the IMPLICATION is that wins over those guys are greater accomplishments.
1/10/14 2:13 PM
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gokudamus stole my name iv
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"That's your elaborate indefensable counter argument?
"So"
That's up there with, "I know you are but what am I""

No, it's asking for some explanation as to the significance of Fedor beating more guys "a lot bigger" than Anderson. You made your statement as though it were some kind of argument-closer.

"I think you put more emphasis on accomplishments, than you do of fighting dangerous opponents."

Who proved to be more dangerous to Fedor: Nogueira or Schilt? Henderson or Ogawa? Werdum or Zulu? Crocop or Herring? Who proved more dangerous to Dan Henderson: Gilbert Yvel and Fedor, or Vitor Belfort and Anderson Silva? Who proved more dangerous to Cain Velasquez, Bigfoot or JDS? Who proved more dangerous to Randy Couture, Tony Halme and Gabriel Gonzaga and Tim Sylvia or Chuck Liddell and Enson Inoue?

"Anderson Silva is arguably more accomplished than Randy and Dan and Cain, but could he whoop there ass? Maybe Dan Henderson at 205."

He could and did whip Dan's ass. Not sure about the other two, but I'm not sure if you're aware of this: They are in different divisions.

"Now since you put more emphasis on title defenses,"

More emphasis than I do on what? Enlighten me. I was merely curious as to just how many fighters outranked, in your estimation, the fighter with the most title defenses in MMA history, and if that list included guys he actually already beat.
1/10/14 3:18 PM
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SevenLeggedSpider
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1.Now since you put more emphasis on title defenses, will you keep that same "orcus consistency" that you are renown for, and you would give us your opinion that Jose Aldo is better than Fedor because he has more title defenses right?  Same for Matt Hughes, same for Miguel Torres?

 

2.You just named FIVE opponents of Fedor who were bigger than Fedor. Now see if you can name me 5 opponents who were bigger than Anderson by the same comparison.

 

3.  You cannot say that all of Fedor's opponents were equal in skill. You cannot say that all of Anderson's opponents were equal in skill.  You can however say, that what some of Fedor's opponents lacked in skill, they had the added variable of size either in weight, height, reach or combination of the three.  Can you say that for Anderson's opponents who lacked skill?

 

 

Notice this is the first time I'm engaging you in a Fedor debate in a long time. We have done this countless times, I have owned you so many times it's why it's not even fun any more. But your persistence backs you into a corner that I'm anxious to see how you try to weasel your way out of it.   

1/10/14 6:19 PM
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sparkuri
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gokudamus stole my name iv -
sparkuri - 
gokudamus stole my name iv -
sparkuri - 
gokudamus stole my name iv - So?

Let me get this straight, where exactly is Anderson on your list? Below Fedor, below Igor...I assume below Randy Couture, because he beat loads of guys much bigger than himself...below Cain for sure, below Dan Henderson too maybe?

Where exactly do you put the guy with the most title defenses in MMA history?
Imo, title defenses mean nothing.
Not for Fedor, Anderson, Hughes, GSP, or anybody else.
It's about the obstacles a man overcomes.
"Title defenses" is window dressing. Phone Post 3.0

Title defenses imply several things: that you're fighting a higher level of competition on average than someone in a non-title fight is; that you have more pressure; and that you have less motivation.
I'm not addressing what it implies, I'm addressing the truth of the matter.
Pressure is relative and nearly impossible to differentiate.
Ask any fighter and you've heard it a million times, every fight is the biggest of their career. Phone Post 3.0

You are addressing what it implies, because there is no "truth" to the statement "title defenses mean nothing". Aside from being just another opinion -- like everything else in this discussion -- it's actually literally UN-true, because a title defense MEANS that you're defending the title. It means you're the champion. It means that you're recognized as being the best and/or most accomplished fighter in your promotion.

You are ALWAYS addressing implications in ANY of these arguments. What does fighting bigger opponents "mean"? You give Fedor GOAT because you think fighting bigger guys IMPLIES fighting guys who are harder to beat, and thus the IMPLICATION is that wins over those guys are greater accomplishments.
I guaranfuckingtee Fedor beating Hong Man Choi was more impressive than Anderson beating 20+ of his opponents.
In fact, HMC woulda likely knocked Anderson TFO.
Fedor got handed opponents all shapes and sizes with little time to prepare.
Anderson fought in one division and was given months, if not a year to prepare.
Anderson lost to scrubs, ragtagged by Chael fucking Sonnen, and beat twice by a guy half the planet had never heard of, and was brought in to lose, just to avoid Belfort 7.0.
Fedor in his prime throws Anderson out of the arena 9/10 times.
I believe Andy himself said this, along with 73% of his own fucking countrymen.
The problem is, slightly weaker minds let Zuffa "public relations" wear your little minds down for several years until you finally say, "yeah, I guess Anderson is the baddest fighter ever", after a thorough standup asswhooping of Stephan Bonnar and Forrest Griffin.
Difference is, organizations didn't propagate Fedor's greatness, the declaration was made by the people and for the people, you whalewatching treehugging granola eating moron.
(But I totally respect your argument) Phone Post 3.0

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