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1/5/14 11:53 AM
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judom
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Haven't posted in a while, but thought may chime in a bit on a topic I am a little bit familiar...:)

It seems to me that many girls are doing a TERRIBLE job at studying Ronda's judo game. In particular, people are talking about her arm-bar, but the reality is, none of them have been able to stop the takedown. So that is the main problem to me.

1. Takedowns: Ronda, back in her Judo day, had a somewhat "classic" Judo. She was definitely not what you would call a throwing/takedown master. In particular, she's been taken down many times with leg attacks: low singles and knee picks, and countered with supplex type throws. Surprisingly, in MMA, nobody has really tried them yet.

2. Grips: The girls so far don't know how to break any of her grips. Its horrible to watch. Ronda gets in position for heap throws and they don't know what to do with her grip. Typically, they try to stick their butt out to prevent the heap throw and then get swept with a trip. From watching them, I am sure they haven't spent much time, if any, studying how to break the grips. They need to practice hand fighting much more: you can't allow such basic grips so quickly and indeed, in her Judo matches, she rarely, if ever got such dominant grips so quickly. In particular, Ronda uses very few grips unlike other top level female Judo fighters: her Judo is not very versatile in the stand up.

3. Moving feet: They don't know how to move their feet. For those that follow freestyle / folkstyle wrestling, I am sure you know John Smith, who always emphasizes that the key skill in wrestling is knowing how to move your feet. So far, Tate and the others have shown total lack of competency in that department. Again, if you watch her Judo matches, you'd know that many of the throws are easily avoidable when you know how to circle out.

4. Pace: 99% of female fighters are not used to the pace that Ronda puts on them, but its standard in Judo where its only 5 min and the game is so fast and intense. No matter what, Ronda will always come out very aggressively because that is in her DNA, and it seems many girls are just not ready for that intensity. Even wrestling matches are less intense than Judo.

5. Proper coaching: back in the day, I remember Rhadi Ferguson coached Thiago Alves for his bout with Karo, specifically how to deal with Judo-type situations and it worked out great for Thiago: in many Judo specific situation he neutralized Karo.

So constructively, I'd say McMann, Rousey's next opponent should:

-- Study Ronda's Judo matches.
-- Focus on low-level (e.g. ankle picks) attacks.
-- Focus on (especially) preventing and breaking Judo grips.
-- Match the pace.
-- Get proper coaching from top level Judo coaches for all of the above.

I don't think a successful strategy resolves around heavily practicing the arm-bar defense or even the ground work, but in managing the stand-up portion correctly.
1/5/14 11:57 AM
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Tolstolobic
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Good post Phone Post 3.0
1/5/14 11:58 AM
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shaqitup
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They also need to be just as strong as her, she just seemed so much more powerful than tate and was pretty much controlling her from the bottom with ease with her massive thighs.

1/5/14 12:07 PM
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judom
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Its true they are not as good athletes...though back in Judo, Ronda was only decent in that department, there were girls that were stronger and more athletic than her (esp. French)...
1/5/14 12:12 PM
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Bobby Lupo
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Welcome back. One of the 5 posters on here worth reading.

If possible, Tate was less prepared for the second fight than the first. Ronda is rounding out her game, but she's still a judo fighter, but her opponents seem to think that prepping for a generic wrestleboxer is good enough. It's clearly not. 

1/5/14 12:35 PM
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Unseen
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judom - Its true they are not as good athletes...though back in Judo, Ronda was only decent in that department, there were girls that were stronger and more athletic than her (esp. French)...
This is basically it. When talking about breaking grips or grappling in general there is a huge difference between a local black belt grabbing you and an Olympian.

Happen to me the first time I rolled with Heath Sims. Despite having many training partners that were high school and college wrestlers, the level a pure helplessness I felt once he he had a solid grip was eye opening. Phone Post 3.0
1/5/14 12:36 PM
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Mentaljim
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A well thought out post. VU.
1/5/14 12:37 PM
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A.Muradyan
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By the time these girl study Ronda, she will have evolved to a better fighter. There are reason that make Ronda's armbar so good, but unlike Travis i aint telling. Ronda's awesome person, and very cool unique chic. I am very happy for her hard earned success. Phone Post 3.0
1/5/14 12:46 PM
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judom
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A. Muradyan,

I don't know Rousey as a person, you are probably right. But I don't think these girls are losing due to the arm-bar per se, they have lost much earlier, in the stand-up part.

1/5/14 12:46 PM
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Wasa-B
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Judom, good to see you back man. Interesting thoughts but surprised that you might think that technical highlights might automatically help her competition catch up to where she is. I think it just comes down to her being too good, too far ahead right now but at least in the td game, we'll see her vs Mcmann next.

"It seems to me that many girls are doing a TERRIBLE job at studying Ronda's judo game"

IMO as often mentioned, Ronda is just doing that much better a job of implementing her game than vice versa and again, her level of game, skill, athleticism is just that many levels above her comp. At least with Mcmann even though women's judo level is higher than womens wrestling, wrestling is still the more MMA friendly td and Mcmann is world class in that dept so...

I also think you are underestimating her adaptation to MMA and improvement of what you remember her from in judo to MMA grappling/judo.

"In particular, she's been taken down many times with leg attacks: low singles and knee picks, and countered with supplex type throws. Surprisingly, in MMA, nobody has really tried them yet. "

- We just saw Miesha try to leg attack here over and over and she got countered over and over (by uchimata). For her to get supplexed, it would take someone on her level of judo or wrestling to stop her absolute dominant control in the clinch. Miesha did try and block her hips at times in the last bout but Ronda adjusted to something else (sumi gaeshi a couple times...again, an MMA adaptation)

As far as the other points, i dont think its the technical points per se as her again, overall being levels above in what she does. Those may be starting points but its like telling someone how to stay off their back against GSP or not to get countered by Anderseon, etc. Its still gonna happen because they are that good at what they do.....
1/5/14 12:49 PM
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Father Uncle Juju
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Great post.  I'd never even really thought about how important it is to attack the grip, and neither had her opponents' coaches, I guess.  They need to throw any notion of clinch wrestling right out the window.

1/5/14 1:01 PM
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judom
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Wasa-B,

yes, you are right that Ronda is on a different level now, I just shared my thoughts on the 1st thing I would do if I were to prepare an athlete to fight her.

As far as leg attacks, Tate attacked too high, you need to attack lower than the hip IMO, more like ankle picks. You can attack high, but Ronda needs to be against the cage to avoid her turning.

A telling match is Rousey vs. 2x world champion from France:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZXt763lRc

Opponents should study this match. Here you can see many of the things I mentioned:

1. She gets taken down with leg attacks, and easily at that.
2. Emane seems physically stronger.
3. She negates Rousey's grips almost completely and if not, counters her effectively.

That said, I don't think many MMA coaches understand Judo at that level to prepare their athletes, esp. when it comes to the grips and the type of rhythm that Olympic Judoka players compete at.

But I believe if McMann does her homework with the grips, people may be quite surprised at the way the fight unfolds.

1/5/14 1:22 PM
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DangerZone
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Good read Phone Post 3.0
1/5/14 1:43 PM
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Pontious_Pilates
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judom - Wasa-B,

yes, you are right that Ronda is on a different level now, I just shared my thoughts on the 1st thing I would do if I were to prepare an athlete to fight her.

As far as leg attacks, Tate attacked too high, you need to attack lower than the hip IMO, more like ankle picks. You can attack high, but Ronda needs to be against the cage to avoid her turning.

A telling match is Rousey vs. 2x world champion from France:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZXt763lRc

Opponents should study this match. Here you can see many of the things I mentioned:

1. She gets taken down with leg attacks, and easily at that.
2. Emane seems physically stronger.
3. She negates Rousey's grips almost completely and if not, counters her effectively.

That said, I don't think many MMA coaches understand Judo at that level to prepare their athletes, esp. when it comes to the grips and the type of rhythm that Olympic Judoka players compete at.

But I believe if McMann does her homework with the grips, people may be quite surprised at the way the fight unfolds.

Can someone like this or post the bid please? Phone Post 3.0
1/5/14 2:14 PM
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emu67
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Enjoyed the post and makes a lot of sense. Phone Post 3.0
1/5/14 2:21 PM
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pegson123
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It's funny how all the leaches in the wood work have come out in the last week to undo rousey. Judo people seem hell jealous of her success. Phone Post
1/5/14 2:28 PM
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chew22
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You mean Ronda's opponents should like actually train with competitive judoka to learn tachiwaza grips and entries so as to be able to counter them when fighting a top level competitive judoka?

That's just crazy talk.
1/5/14 2:34 PM
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garlic jr
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pegson123 - It's funny how all the leaches in the wood work have come out in the last week to undo rousey. Judo people seem hell jealous of her success. Phone Post

Yeah Jimmy Pedro is such a leech. GTFO. You have no idea what you're talking about and just repeating some nonsense you read somewhere else.
1/5/14 2:38 PM
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JJLong
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judom - Wasa-B,

yes, you are right that Ronda is on a different level now, I just shared my thoughts on the 1st thing I would do if I were to prepare an athlete to fight her.

As far as leg attacks, Tate attacked too high, you need to attack lower than the hip IMO, more like ankle picks. You can attack high, but Ronda needs to be against the cage to avoid her turning.

A telling match is Rousey vs. 2x world champion from France:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZXt763lRc

Opponents should study this match. Here you can see many of the things I mentioned:

1. She gets taken down with leg attacks, and easily at that.
2. Emane seems physically stronger.
3. She negates Rousey's grips almost completely and if not, counters her effectively.

That said, I don't think many MMA coaches understand Judo at that level to prepare their athletes, esp. when it comes to the grips and the type of rhythm that Olympic Judoka players compete at.

But I believe if McMann does her homework with the grips, people may be quite surprised at the way the fight unfolds.


But should Ronda's opponents be focused on taking her to the ground?
1/5/14 2:39 PM
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groundfighter2000
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Excellent post VTFU
1/5/14 2:54 PM
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jpm995
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I knew this thread couldn't get to far before being dumbed down. Good try op.
1/5/14 3:08 PM
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judom
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CanadianCouture,

I disagree. Judo has a very different rhythm than wrestling, let alone Greco and the moves in Judo, esp those that Ronda employs are not part of Greco.

I am not sure McMann is the type to do it. She won silver in 2004, nearly 10 years ago when it was not very competitive. And she is not young. Further, she doesn't seem to have the versatile wrestling attacks that some other top level wrestlers have, but who knows. I think she will struggle some to get Rousey down, but its doable.

In terms of takedowns, I believe going lower is better as the person being taken down has less control, and for Rousey its almost mandatory.


1/5/14 3:22 PM
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Caught_clean
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Great stuff from judom as usual.

I like how you mentioned the low attacks. Tate shot ONE super low double... And got the takedown pretty easy. The rest like you said were to high and she just barged into heap throws over and over. Phone Post 3.0
1/5/14 3:30 PM
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JJLong
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Again, the problem with taking Ronda down is that the opponent is now on the ground with Ronda.

I think the best chance anyone has with her is avoiding going to the ground.
1/5/14 3:34 PM
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OneSidedWar
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Side-Step Phone Post
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