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UnderGround Forums >> The COLLAPSE of the UFC's PPV Model


2/10/14 1:51 PM
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dabigchet
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Haulport - 
Tad Ghostal - Gut them? How?

I figure with about a 3 year, $85mm investment you can steal a good chunk of top PPV draw guys from them and generate a solid PPV base that would give you a 20% margin. Just on putting out a better product alone you would draw a ton of fans who have become disenchanted with the sport or who are not into the weak, boring product the UFC offers..


lol
2/10/14 2:20 PM
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Haulport
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dabigchet - 
Haulport - 
Tad Ghostal - Gut them? How?

I figure with about a 3 year, $85mm investment you can steal a good chunk of top PPV draw guys from them and generate a solid PPV base that would give you a 20% margin. Just on putting out a better product alone you would draw a ton of fans who have become disenchanted with the sport or who are not into the weak, boring product the UFC offers..


lol

At $25 a pop (after rev share) 250,000 PPV per event for 6 events a year for three years is a 24% margin on $85mm. I don't think that hitting 250k by spending $2mm per event on production and marketing (not including any personnel salaries) with name MMA fighters is anything that is so wildly unachievable, especially if your product GREATLY DIFFERS than the UFC and appeals to MMA fans and other sports and pro wrestling fans.

But then again you are just a contrarian and Zuffa apologist.

2/10/14 2:21 PM
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Haulport
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nobones - 
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nobones - 
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Haulport -

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 

Why does this graph start at 2 mil. Lol Phone Post 3.0
Haulport sees a drop from $5 million to $2 million and he calls it a collapse...well what was FOX expecting? The way I see that graph is that the UFC created a 'B card' product for these FOX shows to distinguish them from their PPV cards. But the numbers are still good overall just not reaching the high of Cain vs JDS 1 but that was an 'A card' main event that the UFC never really gave away for free again. And the casual fans realized this and so either just DVR the FOX cards or skip them.

Let's also not forget that the UFC did FOX the giant favor of basically carrying FS1 and FS2 for them. The relationship with FOX is one where I would say FOX is very pleased with the UFC, the UFC is not as pleased with the results that this relationship with FOX is yielding. Phone Post 3.0

What I actually see is lost OPPORTUNITY. The UFC had a ton of new eyes on those first two cards and people were ready to embrace their product and the fucked the pooch without an ounce of lube...

IMO the UFC should have GROWN from 5.75 not shrunk over the past 2+ years. having that much exposure and then most of the new possible conversions seeing your product and saying, "Eh. That wasn't very good" and not coming back is beyond pathetic.

Well giving away their 'A cards' for free/$10 million licensing fee would have set a precedent with FOX where their 'A cards' would have never been worth more than that. Now, they can always tell FOX that if they are willing to pay they can possibly get those high numbers again. But that would be closer to $30-40 million per live show.

I think the UFC played it smart with not giving everything away for free. Where things didn't work out and FOX sort of screwed them was moving all UFC content off FX/Fuel and to FS1/FS2. They were building a good following with the move to Wednesday nights for TUF on FX and that got ruined with the move to FS1/FS2. I think the weekly programming was and still is the key to building up PPV stars and this was sort of beyond the UFC's control after they decided to leave Spike. I think they may now realize that they might have been able to grow nationally better with Spike than with FOX although I think FOX gave them opportunities for international growth that Spike/Viacom could not.

Well we will see what will happen but giving all/most of their best PPV cards away on FOX for free would have been an awful move under their current licensing structure. Phone Post 3.0

I would rather have gone all out and be at 7.5 million viewers so that I could negotiate from a power position when the time comes instead of promising to get back to 5.75. All the additional new fans would prop up the PPVs in the interim.

2/10/14 2:36 PM
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Tomato Can
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Haulport - 
dabigchet - 
Haulport - 
Tad Ghostal - Gut them? How?

I figure with about a 3 year, $85mm investment you can steal a good chunk of top PPV draw guys from them and generate a solid PPV base that would give you a 20% margin. Just on putting out a better product alone you would draw a ton of fans who have become disenchanted with the sport or who are not into the weak, boring product the UFC offers..


lol

At $25 a pop (after rev share) 250,000 PPV per event for 6 events a year for three years is a 24% margin on $85mm. I don't think that hitting 250k by spending $2mm per event on production and marketing (not including any personnel salaries) with name MMA fighters is anything that is so wildly unachievable, especially if your product GREATLY DIFFERS than the UFC and appeals to MMA fans and other sports and pro wrestling fans.

But then again you are just a contrarian and Zuffa apologist.


You are essentially advocating for the Affliction business plan here.

How exactly would this product "GREATLY DIFFER" from the UFC product? You said yourself the fighters would be poached from the UFC. Plus it would have near zero brand recognition compared to the UFC. Who exactly is going to put this money up?
2/10/14 3:47 PM
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Haulport
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Tomato Can - 
Haulport - 
dabigchet - 
Haulport - 
Tad Ghostal - Gut them? How?

I figure with about a 3 year, $85mm investment you can steal a good chunk of top PPV draw guys from them and generate a solid PPV base that would give you a 20% margin. Just on putting out a better product alone you would draw a ton of fans who have become disenchanted with the sport or who are not into the weak, boring product the UFC offers..


lol

At $25 a pop (after rev share) 250,000 PPV per event for 6 events a year for three years is a 24% margin on $85mm. I don't think that hitting 250k by spending $2mm per event on production and marketing (not including any personnel salaries) with name MMA fighters is anything that is so wildly unachievable, especially if your product GREATLY DIFFERS than the UFC and appeals to MMA fans and other sports and pro wrestling fans.

But then again you are just a contrarian and Zuffa apologist.


You are essentially advocating for the Affliction business plan here.

How exactly would this product "GREATLY DIFFER" from the UFC product? You said yourself the fighters would be poached from the UFC. Plus it would have near zero brand recognition compared to the UFC. Who exactly is going to put this money up?

No, because Affliction was run by a drunken lunatic who wildly overpaid for fighters and put on weak shows production-wise. Getting a few good names from bellator and the UFC, growing others through excellent scouting like Bellator has done and putting on a real, legit looking show that encouraged all out wars, along with a few other ideas I will not reveal here, would create a very solid org. Even Affliction broke the 100k PPV mark and was run like a third world country.

And klnowing Dana and Lorenzo, I'm sure all a well-financed org would have to do is run a non-unified rules show and say that the UFC is for pussies and not really MMA and that kind of marketing alone would get you 50k PPVs - especially since Lorenzo and Dana would spend most of their time talking about you : )

2/10/14 4:14 PM
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dabigchet
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affliction: banned had $3M in disclosed fighter payouts ALONE. what do you think the total cost was for affliction to set up their promotion to that point? $6M? $10M? and they got what, 100K buys for that investment?

i would love to hear who the main event is for the first PPV that is going to get 250K buys - something no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to get anywhere CLOSE to. keep in mind, for you to get a UFC draw you have got to be prepared to spend FAR more than what zuffa does in guaranteed money over a long term. that's the only way you are going to get their talent.

literally, no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to do 1/2 of that 250K number, and you are saying that it should be no problem for you to do it 6 times a year on the cheap. how can you not see how ridiculous that is?

2/10/14 4:33 PM
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Tomato Can
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How are you going to poach the UFCs big names without overpaying? Where exactly are you going to hold this mythical non-unified rules card? Do you really think some hackneyed "the UFC is for pussies" marketing scheme will overcome the UFC's brand dominance?

I guess it's a nice fantasy for the anti-UFC crowd but don't for a minute think it has any basis in reality.

Bellator did a good job with their ground-up approach (which is really the only approach that is realistically feasible) but I'd argue that since they've gotten Viacom's backing they've made increasingly bizarre decisions that are ruining a lot of what was good about their product. They still put on some solid cards, though.
2/10/14 4:36 PM
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dabigchet
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think about the money that bellator and now viacom has put into that product. think about the exposure that brand has had on weekly cable tv. consider that they actually had a rematch that hardcore MMA fans really wanted to see. also that they were able to sign two big names for a main event (albeit past their primes). and no one - NO ONE - thought their PPV would be anywhere CLOSE to 250K buys. so you are going to do this how, exactly?
2/10/14 10:48 PM
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Haulport
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dabigchet - affliction: banned had $3M in disclosed fighter payouts ALONE. what do you think the total cost was for affliction to set up their promotion to that point? $6M? $10M? and they got what, 100K buys for that investment?

i would love to hear who the main event is for the first PPV that is going to get 250K buys - something no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to get anywhere CLOSE to. keep in mind, for you to get a UFC draw you have got to be prepared to spend FAR more than what zuffa does in guaranteed money over a long term. that's the only way you are going to get their talent.

literally, no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to do 1/2 of that 250K number, and you are saying that it should be no problem for you to do it 6 times a year on the cheap. how can you not see how ridiculous that is?


The only ridiculous thing here is your response - as usual. How is $85mm over 3 years "on the cheap"? Are you a even serious?

You use the example of a joke of an org created because their drunken lunatic owner got mad at the UFC. They had a freakin metal band play live at their show. Allifction was a clown act run by a nut who eventually drank himself to death a few years after he collapsed his mma venture and was forced out of his own company.

Strikeforce was the only half well run show and they locked themselves into a not very lucrative tv deal with viacom from the get go, which was a horrible idea. The IFL was run by decent businessmen who had absolutely ZERO idea about the sport beyond being big fans of Bas and some of the old timers and had the corniest (team) concept ever. They paid A LOT for guys who never fought for them.

2/10/14 10:54 PM
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Haulport
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Let me ask you both a few questions:

Who buys UFC PPVs? Is it 450k - 1mm hardcore fans?

Why do they purchase the PPVs?

How is it that TUF can barely get a million people to watch for free and cards on FOX can only get 2.5mm, but they can get half a million to drop $60 for cards that are routinely panned by many hardcore fans?

Where do these people come from and what motivates them?

2/10/14 10:59 PM
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Haulport
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Tomato Can - How are you going to poach the UFCs big names without overpaying? Where exactly are you going to hold this mythical non-unified rules card? Do you really think some hackneyed "the UFC is for pussies" marketing scheme will overcome the UFC's brand dominance?

I guess it's a nice fantasy for the anti-UFC crowd but don't for a minute think it has any basis in reality.

Bellator did a good job with their ground-up approach (which is really the only approach that is realistically feasible) but I'd argue that since they've gotten Viacom's backing they've made increasingly bizarre decisions that are ruining a lot of what was good about their product. They still put on some solid cards, though.

I guess OneFC is "mythical" to you.

Jesus Christ..................

And don't underestimate the power of low brow marketing. The early UFCs were KILLING boxing with the "bloodsport" "somebody might die" marketing pulling 300k in friggin' 1994 (which was unheard of)!!!

2/10/14 11:27 PM
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Tomato Can
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Are you serious? What kind of online PPV numbers is OneFC doing? It is expensive and logistically difficult to put on a card in Asia and televise it live in the US.

The UFC's lowbrow marketing did great in the mid-90s when MMA was a completely unknown quantity, and that early success didn't last very long. You are reaching. Badly.
2/10/14 11:43 PM
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dabigchet
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Haulport -
dabigchet - affliction: banned had $3M in disclosed fighter payouts ALONE. what do you think the total cost was for affliction to set up their promotion to that point? $6M? $10M? and they got what, 100K buys for that investment?

i would love to hear who the main event is for the first PPV that is going to get 250K buys - something no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to get anywhere CLOSE to. keep in mind, for you to get a UFC draw you have got to be prepared to spend FAR more than what zuffa does in guaranteed money over a long term. that's the only way you are going to get their talent.

literally, no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to do 1/2 of that 250K number, and you are saying that it should be no problem for you to do it 6 times a year on the cheap. how can you not see how ridiculous that is?


The only ridiculous thing here is your response - as usual. How is $85mm over 3 years "on the cheap"? Are you a even serious?

You use the example of a joke of an org created because their drunken lunatic owner got mad at the UFC. They had a freakin metal band play live at their show. Allifction was a clown act run by a nut who eventually drank himself to death a few years after he collapsed his mma venture and was forced out of his own company.

Strikeforce was the only half well run show and they locked themselves into a not very lucrative tv deal with viacom from the get go, which was a horrible idea. The IFL was run by decent businessmen who had absolutely ZERO idea about the sport beyond being big fans of Bas and some of the old timers and had the corniest (team) concept ever. They paid A LOT for guys who never fought for them.

uh, YOU are the one who asserted that affliction overpaid, but somehow with your budget that is actually LESS than afflictions on a per event basis you are going to lure away a good number of the top UFC draws.

it is absolutely absurd.

especially considering you can't offer ONE plausible main event with a prayer of 250K PPV buys. Not ONE. Phone Post 3.0
2/11/14 9:01 AM
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dabigchet
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Haulport - 

Let me ask you both a few questions:

Who buys UFC PPVs? Is it 450k - 1mm hardcore fans?

Why do they purchase the PPVs?

How is it that TUF can barely get a million people to watch for free and cards on FOX can only get 2.5mm, but they can get half a million to drop $60 for cards that are routinely panned by many hardcore fans?

Where do these people come from and what motivates them?


why would list 450K as a basement? literally 1/2 of the last 10 PPVs did less than that....

my read is that it is something like this:

1. there are around 200K people who are UFC PPV regulars. this is the PPV base
2. there are another 300K - 500K who order a few a year and wait for the bigger ones (i'm in this category)
3. there are another million + who can possibly be enticed to order if the event is a big enough of a deal

the UFC, quite obviously, wants to make #2s #1s, make #3s #2s, and make #3s as big as possible.
2/11/14 12:23 PM
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Haulport
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Tomato Can - Are you serious? What kind of online PPV numbers is OneFC doing? It is expensive and logistically difficult to put on a card in Asia and televise it live in the US.

The UFC's lowbrow marketing did great in the mid-90s when MMA was a completely unknown quantity, and that early success didn't last very long. You are reaching. Badly.

Not even a little. The popularity faded because of McCain. Period. Not because people lost interest.

And don't change the subject about OneFC. You said "where would you hold this mythical non-unified event" and I pointed out that OneFC is non-unified. And who said I would televise live? Tape delay like old PRIDE would still work.

2/11/14 12:32 PM
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Haulport
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dabigchet - 
Haulport -
dabigchet - affliction: banned had $3M in disclosed fighter payouts ALONE. what do you think the total cost was for affliction to set up their promotion to that point? $6M? $10M? and they got what, 100K buys for that investment?

i would love to hear who the main event is for the first PPV that is going to get 250K buys - something no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to get anywhere CLOSE to. keep in mind, for you to get a UFC draw you have got to be prepared to spend FAR more than what zuffa does in guaranteed money over a long term. that's the only way you are going to get their talent.

literally, no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to do 1/2 of that 250K number, and you are saying that it should be no problem for you to do it 6 times a year on the cheap. how can you not see how ridiculous that is?


The only ridiculous thing here is your response - as usual. How is $85mm over 3 years "on the cheap"? Are you a even serious?

You use the example of a joke of an org created because their drunken lunatic owner got mad at the UFC. They had a freakin metal band play live at their show. Allifction was a clown act run by a nut who eventually drank himself to death a few years after he collapsed his mma venture and was forced out of his own company.

Strikeforce was the only half well run show and they locked themselves into a not very lucrative tv deal with viacom from the get go, which was a horrible idea. The IFL was run by decent businessmen who had absolutely ZERO idea about the sport beyond being big fans of Bas and some of the old timers and had the corniest (team) concept ever. They paid A LOT for guys who never fought for them.

uh, YOU are the one who asserted that affliction overpaid, but somehow with your budget that is actually LESS than afflictions on a per event basis you are going to lure away a good number of the top UFC draws.

it is absolutely absurd.

especially considering you can't offer ONE plausible main event with a prayer of 250K PPV buys. Not ONE. Phone Post 3.0

You are really a rambling nut you know that? What do you do for a living? I am very curious (and I am not pulling the "you work in McDonalds" card. I am genuinely curious what job you do to compare it to your posts).

Affliction overpaid for talent in crazy ways and put on a couple of fun shows that were very scatter brained and had zero purpose and no sense of building towards anything. $85mm is A LOT of money and it would be spent wisely. No $800k for Tim Sylvia. No signing Tito Ortiz after he is 1-7-1 in the last 7 years. No signing Rampage if you can't immediately have him fight known names or top notch up-and-comers who would make a name for themselve beating him.

And what would be the point in randomly putting together names of fighters whose contractual status I have zero idea about? All you people would do is scream about how this fantasy org would never be able to sign them away if they seemed like a potential serious main event or how they were "bums" if you felt they couldn't pull 250k. So that is a preposterous request.

2/11/14 12:35 PM
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Haulport
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nobones - 
Haulport -
nobones - 
Haulport -
nobones - 
PhuckfaceMcGee -
Haulport -

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 

Why does this graph start at 2 mil. Lol Phone Post 3.0
Haulport sees a drop from $5 million to $2 million and he calls it a collapse...well what was FOX expecting? The way I see that graph is that the UFC created a 'B card' product for these FOX shows to distinguish them from their PPV cards. But the numbers are still good overall just not reaching the high of Cain vs JDS 1 but that was an 'A card' main event that the UFC never really gave away for free again. And the casual fans realized this and so either just DVR the FOX cards or skip them.

Let's also not forget that the UFC did FOX the giant favor of basically carrying FS1 and FS2 for them. The relationship with FOX is one where I would say FOX is very pleased with the UFC, the UFC is not as pleased with the results that this relationship with FOX is yielding. Phone Post 3.0

What I actually see is lost OPPORTUNITY. The UFC had a ton of new eyes on those first two cards and people were ready to embrace their product and the fucked the pooch without an ounce of lube...

IMO the UFC should have GROWN from 5.75 not shrunk over the past 2+ years. having that much exposure and then most of the new possible conversions seeing your product and saying, "Eh. That wasn't very good" and not coming back is beyond pathetic.

Well giving away their 'A cards' for free/$10 million licensing fee would have set a precedent with FOX where their 'A cards' would have never been worth more than that. Now, they can always tell FOX that if they are willing to pay they can possibly get those high numbers again. But that would be closer to $30-40 million per live show.

I think the UFC played it smart with not giving everything away for free. Where things didn't work out and FOX sort of screwed them was moving all UFC content off FX/Fuel and to FS1/FS2. They were building a good following with the move to Wednesday nights for TUF on FX and that got ruined with the move to FS1/FS2. I think the weekly programming was and still is the key to building up PPV stars and this was sort of beyond the UFC's control after they decided to leave Spike. I think they may now realize that they might have been able to grow nationally better with Spike than with FOX although I think FOX gave them opportunities for international growth that Spike/Viacom could not.

Well we will see what will happen but giving all/most of their best PPV cards away on FOX for free would have been an awful move under their current licensing structure. Phone Post 3.0

I would rather have gone all out and be at 7.5 million viewers so that I could negotiate from a power position when the time comes instead of promising to get back to 5.75. All the additional new fans would prop up the PPVs in the interim.

Good thing you are not running the UFC then. That would have been a disastrous move. Bumping the ratings to 7.5 million by giving away anything of value for the $10 million licensing would have been a Phyrric victory to put it mildly. The UFC would have absolutely screwed themselves for good...shit they would have screwed the sport for good. Phone Post 3.0

Yeah, it's so much better that dana and lorenzo are running the ratingins and PPV numbers into the ground instead of doing exactly what say, NETFLIX, has built a 3 bill rev a year company on...i.e. giving your product away for free for a full month and then HOPING that people enjoy it enough to start paying for it.

Looks like it's a good thing you aren't running anything...............

2/11/14 12:39 PM
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Haulport
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nobones - One more thing...the UFC is in a power position. You should read MMA LOGIC's post on the war between media companies and cable companies and the internet. The a la carte model is posing as having the potential to start to replace the bundle package tv model that media companies have sold to cable/satellite companies for years. While tv content like sitcoms and reality shows and dramas get created all the time and can easily go to providers that can air direct to the consumer (see Netflix's House of Cards series for an example), Netflix nor FOX can easily create a new sport. Live sporting events are emerging as the only asset that the major media companies can provide the Netflix and Hulu can't. This is one of the reasons NBC created NBC Sports and FOX created FS1 and FS2. The UFC is a very valuable property for FOX, far more valuable than what they are paying. UFC is already in a major position of advantage with FOX and it didn't cost them devaluing their best cards to just $10 million per show. Phone Post 3.0

I don't need to read MMALOGIC's pablum. Just 2 months ago I was pitching an a la carte television platform to two VC guys.......

Your understanding of value is ridiculous. It is what people might have thought 50 years ago:

"Giving it away for free? That's absurd!!! Harumph, harumph, harumph."

2/11/14 12:51 PM
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dabigchet
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Haulport - 
dabigchet - 
Haulport -
dabigchet - affliction: banned had $3M in disclosed fighter payouts ALONE. what do you think the total cost was for affliction to set up their promotion to that point? $6M? $10M? and they got what, 100K buys for that investment?

i would love to hear who the main event is for the first PPV that is going to get 250K buys - something no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to get anywhere CLOSE to. keep in mind, for you to get a UFC draw you have got to be prepared to spend FAR more than what zuffa does in guaranteed money over a long term. that's the only way you are going to get their talent.

literally, no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to do 1/2 of that 250K number, and you are saying that it should be no problem for you to do it 6 times a year on the cheap. how can you not see how ridiculous that is?


The only ridiculous thing here is your response - as usual. How is $85mm over 3 years "on the cheap"? Are you a even serious?

You use the example of a joke of an org created because their drunken lunatic owner got mad at the UFC. They had a freakin metal band play live at their show. Allifction was a clown act run by a nut who eventually drank himself to death a few years after he collapsed his mma venture and was forced out of his own company.

Strikeforce was the only half well run show and they locked themselves into a not very lucrative tv deal with viacom from the get go, which was a horrible idea. The IFL was run by decent businessmen who had absolutely ZERO idea about the sport beyond being big fans of Bas and some of the old timers and had the corniest (team) concept ever. They paid A LOT for guys who never fought for them.

uh, YOU are the one who asserted that affliction overpaid, but somehow with your budget that is actually LESS than afflictions on a per event basis you are going to lure away a good number of the top UFC draws.

it is absolutely absurd.

especially considering you can't offer ONE plausible main event with a prayer of 250K PPV buys. Not ONE. Phone Post 3.0

You are really a rambling nut you know that? What do you do for a living? I am very curious (and I am not pulling the "you work in McDonalds" card. I am genuinely curious what job you do to compare it to your posts).

Affliction overpaid for talent in crazy ways and put on a couple of fun shows that were very scatter brained and had zero purpose and no sense of building towards anything. $85mm is A LOT of money and it would be spent wisely. No $800k for Tim Sylvia. No signing Tito Ortiz after he is 1-7-1 in the last 7 years. No signing Rampage if you can't immediately have him fight known names or top notch up-and-comers who would make a name for themselve beating him.

And what would be the point in randomly putting together names of fighters whose contractual status I have zero idea about? All you people would do is scream about how this fantasy org would never be able to sign them away if they seemed like a potential serious main event or how they were "bums" if you felt they couldn't pull 250k. So that is a preposterous request.


ha. i guarantee you that i am professionally more accomplished than you. i'm an IT director, thanks for asking.

i understand that you think affliction overpaid. i don't disagree based on the results they got for their investment. what i am asking for is what main event are you going to put on that are going to do TWO AND HALF TIMES what affliction did in terms of buy rate, and how are you going to do it for less money?

i can't think of a single feasible main event that a bankrolled independent promoter could realistically do today that has as much appeal as fedor/sylvia or fedor/arlovski. much less 2 1/2 times the appeal. much less duplicating that feat every other month, as you stated is possible.

so, what is your main event on the first card? how much do you think it would cost you?

2/11/14 12:58 PM
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Tomato Can
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Popularity faded because of McCain? That is pure horseshit. McCain's grandstanding made it more difficult for them to put on cards in many states, but why would a bunch of people who liked the product (in part due to the overly violent marketing, as you said yourself) suddenly stop buying PPVs because some senator shamed them about it? That is a ridiculous claim with no substantiation. The fact is that PPV buys had leveled off and started to decline before McCain ever opened his mouth about MMA. Lowbrow marketing is not the ticket to a viable long-term fanbase.

Tape delay like old PRIDE would work? Are you serious? What was the maximum number of buys a tape delayed PRIDE card ever did? Hell even the tape delayed UFC PPVs generally did poorly. You are either trolling at this point or your are out of your fucking gourd.
2/11/14 12:59 PM
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dabigchet
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also, because zuffa has all sorts of money, and because they have matching rights, they can choose to drive up the cost on any fighter they want as a competitive advantage to put the screws to their competitors. this was explained to you earlier on. the only way you will be able to get UFC talent is to pay far above what UFC is willing to offer and that is a excellent recipe for bankruptcy. zuffa knew this with affliction, i'm sure. if affliction was only willing to pay tim or anderi 100K, don't you think zuffa would have matched?

2/11/14 1:10 PM
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Haulport
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Tomato Can - Popularity faded because of McCain? That is pure horseshit. McCain's grandstanding made it more difficult for them to put on cards in many states, but why would a bunch of people who liked the product (in part due to the overly violent marketing, as you said yourself) suddenly stop buying PPVs because some senator shamed them about it? That is a ridiculous claim with no substantiation. The fact is that PPV buys had leveled off and started to decline before McCain ever opened his mouth about MMA. Lowbrow marketing is not the ticket to a viable long-term fanbase.

Tape delay like old PRIDE would work? Are you serious? What was the maximum number of buys a tape delayed PRIDE card ever did? Hell even the tape delayed UFC PPVs generally did poorly. You are either trolling at this point or your are out of your fucking gourd.

McCain got them systematically thrown off PPV outlets throughout the country not just banned in states. The PPV companies responded quicker than the states actually.

2/11/14 1:17 PM
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Haulport
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dabigchet - 
Haulport - 
dabigchet - 
Haulport -
dabigchet - affliction: banned had $3M in disclosed fighter payouts ALONE. what do you think the total cost was for affliction to set up their promotion to that point? $6M? $10M? and they got what, 100K buys for that investment?

i would love to hear who the main event is for the first PPV that is going to get 250K buys - something no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to get anywhere CLOSE to. keep in mind, for you to get a UFC draw you have got to be prepared to spend FAR more than what zuffa does in guaranteed money over a long term. that's the only way you are going to get their talent.

literally, no promotion outside of zuffa has been able to do 1/2 of that 250K number, and you are saying that it should be no problem for you to do it 6 times a year on the cheap. how can you not see how ridiculous that is?


The only ridiculous thing here is your response - as usual. How is $85mm over 3 years "on the cheap"? Are you a even serious?

You use the example of a joke of an org created because their drunken lunatic owner got mad at the UFC. They had a freakin metal band play live at their show. Allifction was a clown act run by a nut who eventually drank himself to death a few years after he collapsed his mma venture and was forced out of his own company.

Strikeforce was the only half well run show and they locked themselves into a not very lucrative tv deal with viacom from the get go, which was a horrible idea. The IFL was run by decent businessmen who had absolutely ZERO idea about the sport beyond being big fans of Bas and some of the old timers and had the corniest (team) concept ever. They paid A LOT for guys who never fought for them.

uh, YOU are the one who asserted that affliction overpaid, but somehow with your budget that is actually LESS than afflictions on a per event basis you are going to lure away a good number of the top UFC draws.

it is absolutely absurd.

especially considering you can't offer ONE plausible main event with a prayer of 250K PPV buys. Not ONE. Phone Post 3.0

You are really a rambling nut you know that? What do you do for a living? I am very curious (and I am not pulling the "you work in McDonalds" card. I am genuinely curious what job you do to compare it to your posts).

Affliction overpaid for talent in crazy ways and put on a couple of fun shows that were very scatter brained and had zero purpose and no sense of building towards anything. $85mm is A LOT of money and it would be spent wisely. No $800k for Tim Sylvia. No signing Tito Ortiz after he is 1-7-1 in the last 7 years. No signing Rampage if you can't immediately have him fight known names or top notch up-and-comers who would make a name for themselve beating him.

And what would be the point in randomly putting together names of fighters whose contractual status I have zero idea about? All you people would do is scream about how this fantasy org would never be able to sign them away if they seemed like a potential serious main event or how they were "bums" if you felt they couldn't pull 250k. So that is a preposterous request.


ha. i guarantee you that i am professionally more accomplished than you. i'm an IT director, thanks for asking.

i understand that you think affliction overpaid. i don't disagree based on the results they got for their investment. what i am asking for is what main event are you going to put on that are going to do TWO AND HALF TIMES what affliction did in terms of buy rate, and how are you going to do it for less money?

i can't think of a single feasible main event that a bankrolled independent promoter could realistically do today that has as much appeal as fedor/sylvia or fedor/arlovski. much less 2 1/2 times the appeal. much less duplicating that feat every other month, as you stated is possible.

so, what is your main event on the first card? how much do you think it would cost you?


Your guanentees aren't worth much then. I am the head of Business Intelligence for a half a billion dollar in revs per year company.

Why you keep saying "less" money I can't understand. Affliction didn't spend their money properly. That's the problem. $85mm is not peanuts.

And you think in main events because Zuffa has made you think that way. I think in monster cards, all tourneys with a championship fight every event, by the 3rd event. It would be a completely different paradigm from the boring crap Zuffa puts out and the hectic "I can't follow what's going on" pace of weekly seasons Bellator has tried.

2/11/14 1:24 PM
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squirrel516
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Member Since: 10/14/09
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I love how so many people can take a limited amount of information about the UFC's finances and business plan and determine that the company is faltering.

Why do so many people here, who are supposed to be fans, want the company to fail?
2/11/14 1:24 PM
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Haulport
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The schedule would look like this:


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