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UnderGround Forums >> The COLLAPSE of the UFC's PPV Model


2/9/14 6:33 PM
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Haulport
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GripnRip - The complete lack of understanding from the shills in this thread. I bet none of you have made money in the free market. OP is trying to prove what many fans have known for years. Youre all consumed with your shillism you dont realize the hypothesis is that the PPV model is beginning to fail and not that UFC is failing. Referencing the TV deals only makes his point stronger, again I get the sense most of you have very little economic knowledge except for the fluctuation in big mac prices. For a huge entertainment company to not be showing growth in its primary sales channel indicates a clear shift in the market. Again, this is not groundbreaking news but apparently to most of the neck beards it is wildly unimaginable. I would suggest spending some time looking within yourself to try and figure out why you feel the need to ferociously defend people you dont know from non-existent attacks...from where im sitting it looks like very sad behavior unless of course youre being paid in which case.... Carry on.. Phone Post

LOL that is a hilarious post. VU!

2/9/14 6:36 PM
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Haulport
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Lazer MMA - 
Haulport - 

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 



We all knew they blew it with that first FOX show. They've yet to try to put on some sick shows on Fox (stacked cards).

Not putting on monster cards on Fox = penny wise & pound foolish X 999999999 (about)

That lack of vision on Frank and Lorenzo's part is pretty astounding. Just when you think something is just staring them in the face they do the wrong thing anyway convincing themselves that their reasoning is really what's right.............

I just wish someone with money, a brain and some stomach for this industry starting competing with these guys. They have nothing and you could gut them pretty easily if you COMMITTED to it........

2/9/14 6:40 PM
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Tad Ghostal
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Gut them? How?
2/9/14 7:00 PM
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Haulport
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Tad Ghostal - Gut them? How?

I figure with about a 3 year, $85mm investment you can steal a good chunk of top PPV draw guys from them and generate a solid PPV base that would give you a 20% margin. Just on putting out a better product alone you would draw a ton of fans who have become disenchanted with the sport or who are not into the weak, boring product the UFC offers..

2/9/14 7:01 PM
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Haulport
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Logic MMA - The FightPass numbers are even worse.

The UFC needs to put on better cards for free or they are going to continue to watch ratings drop until they're out of business.

They had a prime opportunity, lots of success, and they have dwindled it away trying to nickel and dime their fans.

Fight pass is laughable. The idea of going to a  digital network is an excellent one but they don't have enough quality content for people to committ to a subscription.

2/9/14 7:21 PM
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FOTN
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Haulport - 

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 


Apparently not as big a disaster as your chart producing skills.

You've conveniently fudged the numbers by mixing in the final numbers for the first few events with the (significantly lower) overnight numbers for the others.

Here's the real figures for all the one's you got wrong.

UFC on Fox 5: 4.4 million viewers
UFC on Fox 6: 4.2 million viewers
UFC on Fox 7: 3.7 million viewers
UFC On Fox 8: 2.4 million viewers
UFC On Fox 9: 2.8 million viewers
UFC On Fox 10: 3.2 million viewers
2/9/14 7:32 PM
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Tad Ghostal
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Haulport - 
Logic MMA - The FightPass numbers are even worse.

The UFC needs to put on better cards for free or they are going to continue to watch ratings drop until they're out of business.

They had a prime opportunity, lots of success, and they have dwindled it away trying to nickel and dime their fans.

Fight pass is laughable. The idea of going to a  digital network is an excellent one but they don't have enough quality content for people to committ to a subscription.


They definitely have enough content, they're just not offering it all. It's kind of like Steam's early access (where you pay to play unfinished video games).
2/9/14 7:38 PM
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Tad Ghostal
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Haulport - 
Tad Ghostal - Gut them? How?

I figure with about a 3 year, $85mm investment you can steal a good chunk of top PPV draw guys from them and generate a solid PPV base that would give you a 20% margin. Just on putting out a better product alone you would draw a ton of fans who have become disenchanted with the sport or who are not into the weak, boring product the UFC offers..


How many top PPV draws are there? How many are at the end of their contract? Isn't there a 'champions clause'?
2/9/14 8:28 PM
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FETT_GayFerPayNINJA
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FOTN -
Haulport - 

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 


Apparently not as big a disaster as your chart producing skills.

You've conveniently fudged the numbers by mixing in the final numbers for the first few events with the (significantly lower) overnight numbers for the others.

Here's the real figures for all the one's you got wrong.

UFC on Fox 5: 4.4 million viewers
UFC on Fox 6: 4.2 million viewers
UFC on Fox 7: 3.7 million viewers
UFC On Fox 8: 2.4 million viewers
UFC On Fox 9: 2.8 million viewers
UFC On Fox 10: 3.2 million viewers
Haulport using intentionally misleading information to try and make a point? No way!!! Phone Post 3.0
2/9/14 10:35 PM
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Haulport
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FOTN - 
Haulport - 

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 


Apparently not as big a disaster as your chart producing skills.

You've conveniently fudged the numbers by mixing in the final numbers for the first few events with the (significantly lower) overnight numbers for the others.

Here's the real figures for all the one's you got wrong.

UFC on Fox 5: 4.4 million viewers
UFC on Fox 6: 4.2 million viewers
UFC on Fox 7: 3.7 million viewers
UFC On Fox 8: 2.4 million viewers
UFC On Fox 9: 2.8 million viewers
UFC On Fox 10: 3.2 million viewers

Yeah, really? Where did you get your "real" numbers?

I got mine from:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/1/26/5347334/ufc-on-fox-10-pulls-2-55-million-and-1-1-rating-in-key-adult-demo

And they are all avg viewership numbers. So please link to the "real" numbers you pulled.
 

 

2/9/14 10:36 PM
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Haulport
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Oh and mmafighting got their numbers from Tv By The Numbers.............

2/9/14 10:42 PM
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Haulport
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Tad Ghostal - 
Haulport - 
Tad Ghostal - Gut them? How?

I figure with about a 3 year, $85mm investment you can steal a good chunk of top PPV draw guys from them and generate a solid PPV base that would give you a 20% margin. Just on putting out a better product alone you would draw a ton of fans who have become disenchanted with the sport or who are not into the weak, boring product the UFC offers..


How many top PPV draws are there? How many are at the end of their contract? Isn't there a 'champions clause'?

There are a handful. The champions clause is always problematic but it is more about the overall product and having a tipping point of quality and recognized fighters to support any claims of "Best HW, Best WW, etc".

As long as an org has a believably comparable level of fighter to the UFC than anyone who rises to the top thanks to good scouting will have a legitimate claim "best" which is important to fans. Having Fedor was critical to Affliction and Strikeforce. They just had a host of other problems (like drunken maniac owners, boring cards that looked like UFC-lite, etc.)

2/9/14 11:06 PM
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JimmersonzGlove
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Champions clause wouldnt hold up in court if someone had the balls and money to fight it. Brock got out of a ten year contract with wwe. Phone Post 3.0
2/9/14 11:24 PM
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Chromium
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Edited: 02/09/14 11:24 PM
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Haulport: MMAFighting's numbers for UFC on Fox 5-10 are the overnight ratings only (aka Fast Nationals), probably because those were the only ones TVByTheNumbers had actual indexed articles for, since on a weekly basis they only rank the Top 20-25 shows. Those were not the final viewership numbers. I don't know where FOTN got his numbers but they correspond with the numbers supplied by SportsBusinessDaily.com.

I've included a new version of your graph adjusted for accuracy:

http://i.imgur.com/uSoA2bQ.png

I'm just putting this here for the sake of objectivity.

2/10/14 12:47 AM
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slamming
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Haulport - 
FOTN - 
Haulport - 

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 


Apparently not as big a disaster as your chart producing skills.

You've conveniently fudged the numbers by mixing in the final numbers for the first few events with the (significantly lower) overnight numbers for the others.

Here's the real figures for all the one's you got wrong.

UFC on Fox 5: 4.4 million viewers
UFC on Fox 6: 4.2 million viewers
UFC on Fox 7: 3.7 million viewers
UFC On Fox 8: 2.4 million viewers
UFC On Fox 9: 2.8 million viewers
UFC On Fox 10: 3.2 million viewers

Yeah, really? Where did you get your "real" numbers?

I got mine from:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/1/26/5347334/ufc-on-fox-10-pulls-2-55-million-and-1-1-rating-in-key-adult-demo

And they are all avg viewership numbers. So please link to the "real" numbers you pulled.
 

 


You appear to have used overnight numbers, rather than final numbers for those selected events.

 

 

2/10/14 12:48 AM
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slamming
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Chromium - 

Haulport: MMAFighting's numbers for UFC on Fox 5-10 are the overnight ratings only (aka Fast Nationals), probably because those were the only ones TVByTheNumbers had actual indexed articles for, since on a weekly basis they only rank the Top 20-25 shows. Those were not the final viewership numbers. I don't know where FOTN got his numbers but they correspond with the numbers supplied by SportsBusinessDaily.com.

I've included a new version of your graph adjusted for accuracy:

http://i.imgur.com/uSoA2bQ.png

I'm just putting this here for the sake of objectivity.


Thank you.

2/10/14 1:19 AM
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tenchu
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As if Haulport's pre-conceived post couldn't get any worse... Now we have the true final viewership numbers.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the PPV model and have been saying they need to get rid of it, but your extreme bias doesn't help your credibility.
2/10/14 1:40 AM
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idsmashit
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To many midgets on cards
2/10/14 3:42 AM
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Donoghue88
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While OP's conclusions are a little uneducated, he does make a great point, there hasn't been a drastic rise in PPV buys since the FOX exposure.

You would think with such a popular channel promoting the UFC numbers with increase 200-400K average, but it just hasn't happened.


2/10/14 11:44 AM
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TARRat
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For some reason, I can't quote right now. But in regards to why the graph starts at 2mil? It's likely because the numbers don't drop below 2mil. It's quite common to start graphs at numbers such that you don't have more wasted space than necessary.
2/10/14 12:16 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Haulport - 
Lazer MMA - 
Haulport - 

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 



We all knew they blew it with that first FOX show. They've yet to try to put on some sick shows on Fox (stacked cards).

Not putting on monster cards on Fox = penny wise & pound foolish X 999999999 (about)

That lack of vision on Frank and Lorenzo's part is pretty astounding. Just when you think something is just staring them in the face they do the wrong thing anyway convincing themselves that their reasoning is really what's right.............

I just wish someone with money, a brain and some stomach for this industry starting competing with these guys. They have nothing and you could gut them pretty easily if you COMMITTED to it........



It's so strange as these are guys who were taking a bath and got much richer, they know how to gamble. There were red flags all over the place in putting on Cain (out one year) and JDS alone for the first event.

They should have said F it (and they still should) and go ape shit, putting on the best card possible. Yea they'll lose a lot on the PPV business in the near term, but they'll collect much more moving forward.
2/10/14 1:09 PM
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Haulport
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Chromium - 

Haulport: MMAFighting's numbers for UFC on Fox 5-10 are the overnight ratings only (aka Fast Nationals), probably because those were the only ones TVByTheNumbers had actual indexed articles for, since on a weekly basis they only rank the Top 20-25 shows. Those were not the final viewership numbers. I don't know where FOTN got his numbers but they correspond with the numbers supplied by SportsBusinessDaily.com.

I've included a new version of your graph adjusted for accuracy:

http://i.imgur.com/uSoA2bQ.png

I'm just putting this here for the sake of objectivity.


Thanks for the updated data. The numbers are still dogshit, but it's good to have apples to apples.

2/10/14 1:10 PM
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Haulport
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PhuckfaceMcGee - 
Haulport -

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 

Why does this graph start at 2 mil. Lol Phone Post 3.0

Because no viewership numbers go below 2 mill and leaving a lot of deadspace underneath your line obfuscates your trends and is considered a faux pas.

2/10/14 1:14 PM
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Haulport
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nobones - 
PhuckfaceMcGee -
Haulport -

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 

Why does this graph start at 2 mil. Lol Phone Post 3.0
Haulport sees a drop from $5 million to $2 million and he calls it a collapse...well what was FOX expecting? The way I see that graph is that the UFC created a 'B card' product for these FOX shows to distinguish them from their PPV cards. But the numbers are still good overall just not reaching the high of Cain vs JDS 1 but that was an 'A card' main event that the UFC never really gave away for free again. And the casual fans realized this and so either just DVR the FOX cards or skip them.

Let's also not forget that the UFC did FOX the giant favor of basically carrying FS1 and FS2 for them. The relationship with FOX is one where I would say FOX is very pleased with the UFC, the UFC is not as pleased with the results that this relationship with FOX is yielding. Phone Post 3.0

What I actually see is lost OPPORTUNITY. The UFC had a ton of new eyes on those first two cards and people were ready to embrace their product and the fucked the pooch without an ounce of lube...

IMO the UFC should have GROWN from 5.75 not shrunk over the past 2+ years. having that much exposure and then most of the new possible conversions seeing your product and saying, "Eh. That wasn't very good" and not coming back is beyond pathetic.

2/10/14 1:17 PM
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Haulport
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Lazer MMA - 
Haulport - 
Lazer MMA - 
Haulport - 

Here's a chart of the disaster that is the UFC on FOX ratings

 



We all knew they blew it with that first FOX show. They've yet to try to put on some sick shows on Fox (stacked cards).

Not putting on monster cards on Fox = penny wise & pound foolish X 999999999 (about)

That lack of vision on Frank and Lorenzo's part is pretty astounding. Just when you think something is just staring them in the face they do the wrong thing anyway convincing themselves that their reasoning is really what's right.............

I just wish someone with money, a brain and some stomach for this industry starting competing with these guys. They have nothing and you could gut them pretty easily if you COMMITTED to it........



It's so strange as these are guys who were taking a bath and got much richer, they know how to gamble. There were red flags all over the place in putting on Cain (out one year) and JDS alone for the first event.

They should have said F it (and they still should) and go ape shit, putting on the best card possible. Yea they'll lose a lot on the PPV business in the near term, but they'll collect much more moving forward.

I'm not sure if they would even lose PPV numbers. If they just put on better cards all around I think FOX #'s and PPVs go up.


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