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UnderGround Forums >> UFC: We've lost 'millions and millions' to piracy


2/18/14 7:05 AM
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Poindexter
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Edited: 02/18/14 7:05 AM
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“We have an obligation to our customers and those athletes to continue to pursue the people who don’t want to pay for the goods and services they receive,” Hendrick said.

They're doing it for the athletes. I'm sure the athletes will benefit somewhere down the line, right? After the "nickel and dime-ing" Quarry mentioned, the sincerity and concern from Hendrick here is laughable at best.
2/18/14 7:13 AM
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HarryPalms
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Affliction Blackbelt - 
sodagoespop - 
Sandy Pantz - The cards usually aren't interesting enough to even pirate these days

lol this

Pirates couldnt give a shit about the UFC. You think pay-per-view holds up in jagged waters of somalia or the deep atlantic? Forget about it. UFC had a golden chance to snag the interest of vagabonds sea scoundrels but frankly that ship has sailed.

voted up.
2/18/14 7:14 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Is Carl Sagan researching these numbers for Zuffa?

"Millions, and billions, and trillions of PPV's lost every year, like grains in the sand..."
2/18/14 7:28 AM
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Wiggy
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JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
onandon - if it wasn't for piracy I would never have gotten into MMA
That's like saying "If it wasn't for rape, I'd have never gotten into sex".

Do you work for free?

Would you?

It isn't just Dana. It's the guys in the truck, it's the guy working arena security and the guy working concessions that lose gigs if shows don't happen and PPV doesn't exist.

If it's worth your time to watch; it's worth money.

Now, if you can't afford it. Say it.

Say I can't afford PPV but want to watch the fights so I pirate them.

That's an honest statement. Still piracy but you are saying you'd pay if you could.

Now, if you are saying the PPV isn't worth it, why are you bothered watching?

Either a guy can't afford it.

Or he is saying it isn't worth it.

It shouldn't be free though.

I don't know why so many people want to be entertained yet don't want to pay the people who entertain them. Phone Post 3.0

To your last sentence - because entirely too many fans (esp LONG TIME fans that have watched since the late 90s / early-mid 00s) still want to be entertained, but come from a time where we paid A LOT less (to the tune of less than 50% of current PPV prices...and a lot less often) for a lot better entertainment (i.e. - non-watered down cards).

Then we also realize (as has been said multiple times already) that entirely too many of our dollars won't even go to the fighters, much less the "guys in the truck, it's the guy working arena security and the guy working concessions".

I make my living offering and selling content online. The thing that Dana won't admit is that when it comes to online content, hackers, streamers, and blackhatters are WAY smarter than he is. Yeah, Dana's high-priced lawyers might be able to track one or two people down and try to make an example out of him. This will only strengthen the resolve of these people and have them find more/better ways of making streams available.

Many blackhatters/streamers are people that will actually spend money on your shit if you actually try. Yes, many will never buy, but also as has been said, these are people that were *never* gonna buy anyway. So who gives a shit. It's not missed opportunity cost.

However, many are the type that are just over being yanked around by content providers (regardless of the type of content) that put more effort into marketing than they do putting out a quality product. They want to actually see/test drive the shit for free because they're tired of getting scammed. They'll go back later on and purchase the product for either unrestricted access or if nothing else, just to support the content provider.

Yes, I know this isn't a viable thing with PPVs - I'm just pointing out the principle in general.

The comment a few pages back about a "freemium" model (get the content for free, get a better version of the content for pay) is spot fucking on, IMO.

When Tim Ferriss released his "4-Hour Chef" book, he actually worked WITH BitTorrent to offer the audiobook for free and a chunk of the ebook for free. BitTorrent then linked to Ferriss' amazon page where people could "support the author" and purchase the actual thing.

In Ferriss' own words, "BitTorrent conversion is NUTS".

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2012/11/30/the-4-hour-chef-bestseller/
2/18/14 7:31 AM
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AsimpleFan
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Has anyone set up a fund me for Zuffa yet? These guys need help. Support the sport. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 7:32 AM
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Wiggy
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Oh and to the point of streaming being how many people got into MMA...

Let's go a little old school. Before the internet (or at least before the internet got big), how many of you guys got into or first heard of the UFC via tape trading?

I know I did.
2/18/14 7:57 AM
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MattyECB
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ufc98newb - if they have lost millions, it is from paying lawyers to fight this in court. People who are streaming would not be watching otherwise. If anything, it keeps them interested in the sport, and keeps them on board for potential future revenue streams.

Pirated streams are of the shittiest quality. Anybody willing to watch that shit, is absolutely not willing or able to spend $55 on a ppv. Their alternative is not watching at all.

VU,

 

I haven't bothered streaming in ages, but when I'd stream in Uni it'd be for cards I couldn't catch otherwise. Even if someone does it for cards he thinks are shit, he's not gonna waste a proper card on a shit quality, adware and pop up battle with dropped connections. He'll go to a bar at minimum

 

I understand if the UFC wants to attack ppl seting up distibution sites, that's their perogative, but if they keep attacking streamers, they're going to alienate their fanbase pretty godamn hard. And by making such a retarded statement as assuming all pirated streams are guaranteed revenue streams they really defeat their own point -- or at least make it difficult to take whatever stance they hold seriously

2/18/14 7:58 AM
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MattyECB
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JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
onandon - if it wasn't for piracy I would never have gotten into MMA
That's like saying "If it wasn't for rape, I'd have never gotten into sex".

Do you work for free?

Would you?

It isn't just Dana. It's the guys in the truck, it's the guy working arena security and the guy working concessions that lose gigs if shows don't happen and PPV doesn't exist.

If it's worth your time to watch; it's worth money.

Now, if you can't afford it. Say it.

Say I can't afford PPV but want to watch the fights so I pirate them.

That's an honest statement. Still piracy but you are saying you'd pay if you could.

Now, if you are saying the PPV isn't worth it, why are you bothered watching?

Either a guy can't afford it.

Or he is saying it isn't worth it.

It shouldn't be free though.

I don't know why so many people want to be entertained yet don't want to pay the people who entertain them. Phone Post 3.0

That's an amazing analogy, I wisn I hadn't wasted my VU

 

Raperiffic to be precise

2/18/14 8:00 AM
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MattyECB
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Wiggy - Oh and to the point of streaming being how many people got into MMA...

Let's go a little old school. Before the internet (or at least before the internet got big), how many of you guys got into or first heard of the UFC via tape trading?

I know I did.

That's how my brother who got me into it did lol

2/18/14 8:01 AM
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Void
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I can't remember the last time I finished watching a UFC event.
2/18/14 8:03 AM
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talkischeap
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Kinda showing how greedy they are more than makin free fight watchers look bad Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 8:13 AM
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onandon
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Would also like to add that if the UFC want to really combat piracy, they need to give us better access to their content at a fair price. So far UFC.tv / Fight Pass has been a bust, at least it has been in my own experience.

I'm in Australia and don't have cable because it just isn't that popular here. So if I want to catch the fights, I need to either head to the local pub or watch it online through UFC.tv.

My experience with UFC.tv / Fight Pass has been pretty shitty so far because there seems to be some exclusive broadcast agreement here with the cable TV company - so parts of cards are blacked out for us, whether we paid for them or not. It has happened to me with PPVs and the Fox/TV cards. When content is blacked out, I have no other option than to find a pirate stream.

If I'm paying for content through a monthly fee, making additional payments for Fox/TV events AND buying PPVs, then I expect to get ALL the content, not bits and pieces. If I'm dishing out that much cash to keep up to date, you need to bring me some value.
2/18/14 8:38 AM
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Kepler
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MattyECB - 
JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
onandon - if it wasn't for piracy I would never have gotten into MMA
That's like saying "If it wasn't for rape, I'd have never gotten into sex".

Do you work for free?

Would you?

It isn't just Dana. It's the guys in the truck, it's the guy working arena security and the guy working concessions that lose gigs if shows don't happen and PPV doesn't exist.

If it's worth your time to watch; it's worth money.

Now, if you can't afford it. Say it.

Say I can't afford PPV but want to watch the fights so I pirate them.

That's an honest statement. Still piracy but you are saying you'd pay if you could.

Now, if you are saying the PPV isn't worth it, why are you bothered watching?

Either a guy can't afford it.

Or he is saying it isn't worth it.

It shouldn't be free though.

I don't know why so many people want to be entertained yet don't want to pay the people who entertain them. Phone Post 3.0

That's an amazing analogy, I wisn I hadn't wasted my VU

 

Raperiffic to be precise


LOL raperiffic indeed.

You are just not smart enough to understand Jefferson's supremely intelligent point.

Rape is having something done to you against your will.

Having someone duplicate your PPV instead of paying... rape.

If someone sneezes on you... that is rape.

you bump into someone on the street... rape.

Did your mother or father make you eat vegetables when you younger and didn't want them? Well guess what, you were raped by your parents buddy.

Btw Jefferson I am totally stealing your double spaced typing style, makes my posts seem so much more intellectual.
2/18/14 8:40 AM
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xtrordinaire
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Fuck ufc, I haven't bought a card in like a year but I still watch Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 8:48 AM
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MITman2k
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Edited: 02/18/14 9:12 AM
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CarlClendenin - 
UltraViolentRay - i love the assumption that everyone would be paying customers if they couldn't have gotten it for free.

i think they should assume that 0% of the people who "stole" it would have paid for it.

You're right, but shortsighted.

Radical public headlines such as this one is a clear ploy to manipulate government officials to allow them to sue streamers/protect their product more aggressively.

We know they didn't lose millions, as you've pointed out. But lawmakers don't know that - and they have always protected financial interests.

In my opinion, of course.

 

This.

 

The UFC has been doing quite a bit of lobbying on Capitol Hill  to appeal for stronger streaming laws(& apparently it's not cheap either http://www.mmamania.com/2013/5/2/4294052/ufc-outspends-mlb-nba-lobbying-capitol-hill-fight-against-online-video-piracy-mma.) And don’t forget support for SOPA.
 
They have to know the laws on this are shaky and so they’re appealing to politicians to new ones. They have the right to do this (and the interface between corporate interests and government has long been there) but I’ll be damned if  I support them in wanting to put new restrictions on the internet.
2/18/14 8:48 AM
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Aaron Becker
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BJ Penn Forever - I have been to six UFC events live and own plenty of VHS/DVD's and have chipped in with buddies on most PPV events since UFC 21 back in 1999.

Really don't feel like wasting $10 bucks to see Saturday's main card.

Maybe someone on here will do a play by play thread like was done back in the day.

maybe you should just stream, it's free
2/18/14 8:58 AM
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ClemenzasCannoli
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. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 8:58 AM
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FreightTrain
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UltraViolentRay - i love the assumption that everyone would be paying customers if they couldn't have gotten it for free.

i think they should assume that 0% of the people who "stole" it would have paid for it.

I was going to make the same point.

I think some might go to a sports bar but the individual would not be generating revenue for the UFC (maybe a $5 cover and the cost of food).
2/18/14 9:01 AM
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whoabro
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Lick Boners -
whitesun - PAY THE SEEDERS DANA

I'll start doing this if I get a performance bonus. Hook me up Dana
The disclosed pay for streamers is low but TRUST ME they get big bonus behind closed doors! Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 9:05 AM
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Tiresias
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What's your paypal ufc?

2/18/14 9:08 AM
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6ULDV8
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What's funny is now it's free in Hong Kong with the right TV subscription.  All you need to do is some research when they change to a different station to find out where it's being broadcast now.

 

I can't even bother to do that anymore.  It's not worth the effort and won't be there long before they move to somewhere else.  Fuck 'em.

 

E-sports are the future.

2/18/14 9:15 AM
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tetris
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The amount of money they are spending on lobbying this shit and lawyers fees is far greater than nerds watching a shitty ass quality stream.
2/18/14 9:16 AM
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nastydirtysavage
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Don't forget that Marc Randazza offered to fight these lawsuits for free. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 9:18 AM
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Boyd Crowder's Hair
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Edited: 02/18/14 9:23 AM
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I would say it is safe to say that @ $45 per PPV they have lost a BILLION dollars when you factor in streaming + bit torrent + going to a bar that doesn't pay the fee

that would be:

22,222,222 ppv buys @ $45

if they averaged 200,000k buys for the last 111 UFC events
2/18/14 9:18 AM
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nastydirtysavage
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tetris - The amount of money they are spending on lobbying this shit and lawyers fees is far greater than nerds watching a shitty ass quality stream.
They think these broke nerds actually have the money to pay for their shitty product. Next they are gonna sue amazon for selling old used UFC DVDs. Phone Post 3.0

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