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UnderGround Forums >> UFC: We've lost 'millions and millions' to piracy


2/18/14 12:31 PM
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jimbonice
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ufc98newb - if they have lost millions, it is from paying lawyers to fight this in court. People who are streaming would not be watching otherwise. If anything, it keeps them interested in the sport, and keeps them on board for potential future revenue streams.

Pirated streams are of the shittiest quality. Anybody willing to watch that shit, is absolutely not willing or able to spend $55 on a ppv. Their alternative is not watching at all.
You need to look around. I've seen HD streams, 720p and up. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 12:41 PM
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I Wild Each It
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8 PPV's a year and stack them with two championships fights per card, so you can justify the $60 premium you're asking.

End the year with a card that includes four title fights, and bump that one to $65 for SD and $70 for HD.

Do that and I guarantee buys and revenue go up, and streaming goes down.




2/18/14 12:47 PM
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Powerful DJH
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ufc98newb - if they have lost millions, it is from paying lawyers to fight this in court. People who are streaming would not be watching otherwise. If anything, it keeps them interested in the sport, and keeps them on board for potential future revenue streams.

Pirated streams are of the shittiest quality. Anybody willing to watch that shit, is absolutely not willing or able to spend $55 on a ppv. Their alternative is not watching at all.
Boom. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 12:51 PM
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Fly Rodder
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I can't remember the last PPV I bought. In past, I used to travel for work quite a bit and once some bars started charging covers to get in for the UFC, I stopped doing that shit. W/R/T to BBW, the crowded bar and shitty service was enough for me to stop going there. I know of people that stream occasionally, but it's usually if there's nothing else going on and they happen to find themselves home on a Saturday night.

Me? I'm not spending $60 to watch a three-hour ppv that's chock full of canned pre-fight hype footage and commercials for sponsors. Here's an exciting 8-minute clip of a new B-movie that'll be out of theaters before you know it!!
2/18/14 12:53 PM
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TheMasher81
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Good Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 12:53 PM
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jimbonice
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The ppv model needs too change. I didn't mind paying $45 three times a year for great fights; that's not where the ufc is at anymore. We're inundated with shit cards at $60 a pop. They should jack fight pass up to $20/month and include all the fights. I'd be a buyer then. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 12:55 PM
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rkm456
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I Wild Each It - 8 PPV's a year and stack them with two championships fights per card, so you can justify the $60 premium you're asking.

End the year with a card that includes four title fights, and bump that one to $65 for SD and $70 for HD.

Do that and I guarantee buys and revenue go up, and streaming goes down.





They're going to have 10 belts soon. They could do one ppv a month (12 a year) and STILL be able to have 2 title defenses per card. They're simply choosing to give us a watered down product in favor of putting on more cards. They had what, 5 cards in 7 weeks since January 1st? That's obscene.
2/18/14 12:57 PM
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Powerful DJH
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nastydirtysavage -
Rambo John J -

NFL costs 0 dollars to follow.

How do they make money???

Also does anyone know what the president of the nfl looks like? Or his opinions on every fucking team?

I feel like at this point Dana takes away more from the UFC then he contributes lately. Phone Post 3.0
Commissioner Goodell would be equivalent to Dana for the NFL and he has changed a lot since coming into place. Obviously not in the abrasive manner like Dana...

in reference to your question of how NFL makes money with out charging is a little muddy

...they do charge...a lot. If you've ever been to a pro game live your spending anywhere from 200-2000 bucks a game, every Sunday in giant stadiums all over the country...

since they have built there brand and have a huge following, company's pay insane numbers to the NFL to advertise their products. They also have other revenue streams but hopefully that awnsers your question... Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 1:03 PM
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Powerful DJH
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Rambo John J -

Isn't saying millions and millions.

the same as just saying millions.

millions + millions = Millions

Just doo the math.

just saying it seems like they are manipulating the words to exaggerate.

Yes your right. the person could have said "millions" instead of "millions and millions" and it would have meant the exact same thing...but she didnt...what an astute observation. Thank you for your priceless contributions to the topic. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 1:07 PM
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Abrtitans
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That's what's gonna happen when you break into the Chinese Market, they don't give to phucks about piracy. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 1:13 PM
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Ingrained Media
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Ingrained Media, President
According to the studies conducted by HBO they have benefited from "streams", "piracy" and customers "sharing" their HBO Go log in information with friends. They claim the quality of the content converts customers that they would not normally reach. The same logic is used when giving away free preview weekends.

Metallica suffered from suing it's fans. I can't see this constant pounding of the battle drums by Zuffa being good for the brand.
2/18/14 1:14 PM
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Rcs476
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The product is just not worth the money anymore. From the pace of the events, to the majority of fighters fighting safely for job security. $60, no thanks. If streams did not exist, I simply wouldn't watch, no biggie. There is plenty of MMA out there.

 

Stream views do not equal lost revenue.

2/18/14 1:24 PM
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Bry Bry
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Herman Munster - 
dabigchet - i don't doubt that they have lost millions. it is a really difficult thing to measure though, and it very well might be doing more harm than good.

really there are 3 groups of PPV watchers

- never stream. there are really two groups here on opposite ends of the spectrum. first there are the hard cores who buy regularly, on the other end you have the casuals who don't follow that closely but know enough to be interested in a *big* PPV. obviously, streaming doesn't affect the revenue from these people

- then you have those who *always* stream. i think there is opportunity to squeeze some PPV purchases from this group, but by and large these are the people who are going to be the most tech saavy, the people least likely to be willing to spend $60, and frankly, the people less likely to have friends to watch fights with (they are "goofs")

- the third group of people is the biggest group. these are the people who buy PPVs when they are excited for them or can make plans with friends to watch it, and stream when they aren't that excited or don't have plans. the vast, vast majority of the time, i think, if this group could not get access to a stream, they are not going to change their mind and order up the PPV for $60. they have already made a decision that the card was not worth it when they started looking for a stream. most OGers are in this group, i think. further, because this group does order PPVs occasionally, does making streams unavailable to them help the bottom line, or hurt it?

In respect to "having friends to get together and watch the fights with". Let me just say, that shit gets old very fast. That may be appealing to people in their early 20's, but once you hit 30, if you are are getting together with your other 30 year old buddies to watch every single ppv event, you are actually the goof. I dont want to go out on a Saturday to a friends, watch the fights while trying to stay awake, then drive home at 1-2 am when the card is done. I'd rather be passed out on my couch by then.

So bascially if you fall into my catergory. You either buy the PPV, or you dont buy the PPV and lose all interest in the sport. That's great that people can throw $60 around regularly on shitty cards like it doesn't matter to their bottom line, but that is not the reality for many...It does matter to my bottom line, so now my choice is to lose interest. You either stream to stay interested as a fan of the sport, or you find something else to do and lose interest in sport completely, because buying is simply not an option for people who have more important financial priorities. The people who were calling this UFC shit a fad around TUF 1 were right.

i agree, me and my buddies used to get together and chip in for boxing and ufc ppvs but like you mentioned, it gets old very fast..that was in my early 20s too and im in mid 30s now..once in a great while we will get together and watch a big ufc event but its rare..tbh, my hardcore Ufc friends have basically lost their devotion to the sport, its no longer fresh and exciting as it used to be..whether thats due to too many cards, carbon copy fighters, im not sure..

id guesstimate that maybe %5 of those that stream would actually pay for the ppv so the money being spent by Ufc for lawyers going after streamers is not going to be made back..like others have mentioned, streamers dl movies every day, if they werent able to, its not like they would go out and buy the movies...they more than likely just wouldnt watch them at all..

ive been a Ufc fan since Ufc 5 and i bought plenty of Ufc events but towards the end i just constantly felt ripped off overall..id buy the event and id be yawning halfway through it..something wasnt right, im not trying to justify streaming as i do look at it like stealing or something very similar but there is no way i could go back to paying for ppvs...i was the one that mentioned that maybe they could introduce a 'pay per fight' deal but not sure how it would work..i think it would hurt the ufc overall as who is going to be willing to buy all of these no-name fights that are filling the ufc ppvs lately?also, paying $15-20 for a main event fight seems risky to me as it could be a dud or end in 20 seconds..

i honestly dont know what the solution is to this problem..what has the movie industry did in order to curb pirating?has it had any success with their methods?
2/18/14 1:36 PM
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Bry Bry
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"The product is just not worth the money anymore"

this is the bottom line..look at how many hardcores on here cant even justify paying for these events, much less joe blow down the street that doesnt really care about the sport..how do you make events worth watching though, do you cut ppv events in half and just stack every card?how do you build fighters up this way though as it doesnt seem like too many people are tuning into free Fight night cards...
2/18/14 1:38 PM
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pewnt78
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UFC are gnawing at my last nerve over this. People Pirate their product because they are charging more than the market can bare.

When half the world gets PPV products for "free" as part of their extended cable packages! Maybe the UFC should stop trying to build it's company on the wallets of the US, and Canada.
2/18/14 1:57 PM
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Standup29
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Herman Munster -
dabigchet - 
Herman Munster - 
dabigchet - i don't doubt that they have lost millions. it is a really difficult thing to measure though, and it very well might be doing more harm than good.

really there are 3 groups of PPV watchers

- never stream. there are really two groups here on opposite ends of the spectrum. first there are the hard cores who buy regularly, on the other end you have the casuals who don't follow that closely but know enough to be interested in a *big* PPV. obviously, streaming doesn't affect the revenue from these people

- then you have those who *always* stream. i think there is opportunity to squeeze some PPV purchases from this group, but by and large these are the people who are going to be the most tech saavy, the people least likely to be willing to spend $60, and frankly, the people less likely to have friends to watch fights with (they are "goofs")

- the third group of people is the biggest group. these are the people who buy PPVs when they are excited for them or can make plans with friends to watch it, and stream when they aren't that excited or don't have plans. the vast, vast majority of the time, i think, if this group could not get access to a stream, they are not going to change their mind and order up the PPV for $60. they have already made a decision that the card was not worth it when they started looking for a stream. most OGers are in this group, i think. further, because this group does order PPVs occasionally, does making streams unavailable to them help the bottom line, or hurt it?

In respect to "having friends to get together and watch the fights with". Let me just say, that shit gets old very fast. That may be appealing to people in their early 20's, but once you hit 30, if you are are getting together with your other 30 year old buddies to watch every single ppv event, you are actually the goof. I dont want to go out on a Saturday to a friends, watch the fights while trying to stay awake, then drive home at 1-2 am when the card is done. I'd rather be passed out on my couch by then.

So bascially if you fall into my catergory. You either buy the PPV, or you dont buy the PPV and lose all interest in the sport. That's great that people can throw $60 around regularly on shitty cards like it doesn't matter to their bottom line, but that is not the reality for many...It does matter to my bottom line, so now my choice is to lose interest. You either stream to stay interested as a fan of the sport, or you find something else to do and lose interest in sport completely, because buying is simply not an option for people who have more important financial priorities. The people who were calling this UFC shit a fad around TUF 1 were right.

i think it all depends on your circle of friends. its ridiculous (and kind of sad) to suggest once people hit 30 they should never,e ver go out on a saturday night. especially when we are talking about every couple months.

if i were someone who always watched PPVs myself, i would probably always stream. i don't think the value is there for 1 person. i don't mind ordering 1 or 2 a year though, and having a couple friends willing to do the same.

What do you want me to tell you... I did the whole friend thing in my early to mid 20's, whether it was at a house or the bar. But even then when I first started purchasing PPV's, prices were cheaper, and cards far less frequent, so it was more affordable and more of a novelty. Over the years the whole, "lets make a night out of the UFC card on Saturday night" shit just got stale and old. I'd rather just stay in, smoke a nice joint, and ideally watch some fights... Because I like fights.... But... I'm not prepared to pay $60 as frequently as PPV's take place, and I'm not going to apologize to Zuffa or anyone on the UG because that is not my financial priority. I will simply choose not buy and continue to lose interest as Zuffa continues to push forward with their methods of alienation.
So skip the ppvs and watch the free cards. There is more than enough to keep you interested. You are interested enough to spend time on here so either A. Your interest is just fine or B. You don't have any friends and hang out here for the "friendships".

I still have buddies hit me up from back home in Cali about getting together to watch fights. If you struggle to stay awake to watch fights with your friends maybe you should go see a Dr. Might be more going on then a loss of interest if your buddies and violence makes you sleepy. BBQs with friends watching the fights is awesome! If these didn't come on in the middle of the night, I'd be having them here.

I think some "fans" on here need TRT! Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 2:06 PM
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Standup29
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Bry Bry - "The product is just not worth the money anymore"

this is the bottom line..look at how many hardcores on here cant even justify paying for these events, much less joe blow down the street that doesnt really care about the sport..how do you make events worth watching though, do you cut ppv events in half and just stack every card?how do you build fighters up this way though as it doesnt seem like too many people are tuning into free Fight night cards...
Funny thing is most of the "hardcore" you speak of have been streaming since they became fans. Joe blow down the street order most until they join a forum and hear how the "hardcore" watch.

Too many of you are so full of shit about "I used to always order but now I don't". Stop lying. You rarely if ever ordered. If the UFC is so bad that it's not worth paying for, stop watching. If you guys thought you could actually get in trouble for streaming you wouldn't do it. That's why we hear the comments "they are hurting their fan base and alienating fans." Course you say that, it effects you if the threat becomes real. You either start ordering or miss the events. Life goes on either way. Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 2:07 PM
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dabigchet
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to my knowledge, no one has actually been found guilty of committing a crime when watching a stream. it *may* be the case that if the UFC pushes this issue, they will eventually come across someone who is not going to just take a default judgment.

imagine, if a judge says that watching a stream is legal? UFCs hand is going to be forced then, for sure.

they have a real problem with the agreements in place with fox and ppv. if they can't figure out a way to get to something that the WWE is working towards, or move significantly towards a more mainstream network presence like the major sports, they are going to be for hurt, imo
2/18/14 2:23 PM
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BigfootsChin
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Ohhh booohooo weve lost millions!!

cry me a cormier!! Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 2:27 PM
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neil11
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Move to the UK and get it for free.

Although it is difficult staying up till 4am to watch a Jake Shields fight..... Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 2:38 PM
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6ULDV8
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2 starved guys, or what the fuck, chicks too!  Humping each other for 15 minutes, fuck it, maybe 25 minutes.

 

That'll be 60 bucks.

2/18/14 2:52 PM
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saemskin
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Dear UFC,

you have lost exactly ZERO dollars to piracy.
they are watching a free stream because it is free.
these people will never buy your ppv, and never intended to buy your ppv.
it's not happening, so stop claiming lost revenue.
the word of mouth advertising these people are giving you far exceed anything you could ever quantify on paper as a "loss"

try again.


2/18/14 3:08 PM
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Riddlius
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saemskin - Dear UFC,

you have lost exactly ZERO dollars to piracy.
they are watching a free stream because it is free.
these people will never buy your ppv, and never intended to buy your ppv.
it's not happening, so stop claiming lost revenue.
the word of mouth advertising these people are giving you far exceed anything you could ever quantify on paper as a "loss"

try again.


Agreed Phone Post 3.0
2/18/14 3:21 PM
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Bry Bry
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Standup29 - 
Bry Bry - "The product is just not worth the money anymore"

this is the bottom line..look at how many hardcores on here cant even justify paying for these events, much less joe blow down the street that doesnt really care about the sport..how do you make events worth watching though, do you cut ppv events in half and just stack every card?how do you build fighters up this way though as it doesnt seem like too many people are tuning into free Fight night cards...
Funny thing is most of the "hardcore" you speak of have been streaming since they became fans. Joe blow down the street order most until they join a forum and hear how the "hardcore" watch.

Too many of you are so full of shit about "I used to always order but now I don't". Stop lying. You rarely if ever ordered. If the UFC is so bad that it's not worth paying for, stop watching. If you guys thought you could actually get in trouble for streaming you wouldn't do it. That's why we hear the comments "they are hurting their fan base and alienating fans." Course you say that, it effects you if the threat becomes real. You either start ordering or miss the events. Life goes on either way. Phone Post 3.0

how would you know what i used to order, just stfu with that bullshit..i ordered every single event i could back in the day..if my cable system wasnt carrying it, i paid a buddy to order it and record it..this went on until a few years back when i realized either my interest was fading or the sport was becoming stale, maybe both..

im not going to miss any events i dont think, always torrents avail..i think with me there is just a part of me that wants or thinks the ufc will somehow regain that magic it once had..i remember being on edge of my seat for Ultimate Ultimate events but now, that is gone..

btw i dont know hardly anyone that still gets together for ufc ppv events..i have a few buddies that will have a party and then order ufc but its rare..where are you guys located in that you have all of these friends who gather for ufc parties..that shit just doesnt happen anymore for me at my age, my peer group..everyone has families and other obligations, like another poster said, the 'ufc party nights' got stale quick..i really wonder who even orders ppvs at all..out of everyone i work with and socialize with, very very few even know the popular fighters, much less order ppvs..
2/18/14 3:27 PM
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MDubz
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The real issue is they are losing money on people streaming because they can not afford to buy every ppv anymore due to ridiculous prices. If they dropped the ppv price by half, you'd have a whole new world of buyers.

The UFC should try that for one event, advertise the shit out of it and put it at $29.95. Make sure it's a good quality PPV card, and see what the buy rate is then. You'll have a better perspective on what your real market is.

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