UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> ESPN Article on the UFC and TRT


2/25/14 12:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Judontkneedthisname3744
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/29/11
Posts: 8990
 
I saw this article and thought it was very interesting.

Josh Gross loves the UFC lol

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10500652/therapeutic-use-exemptions-testosterone-mma-outpace-other-sports-lines-finds


Vitor Belfort was 33 years old when an Ultimate Fighting Championship doctor in Las Vegas -- whose name has faded from his memory -- diagnosed low testosterone as the cause for his feeling "tired and lethargic." The fix for the two-time champion was a testosterone-replacement therapy regimen that continues to this day.

Now 36, as he basks in a career rebirth that has him set for a spring UFC title fight, Belfort has emerged as the poster child for a practice anti-doping experts portray as, at worst, outright cheating and, at best, an unfair exploitation of a performance-enhancing-drug testing loophole: athletes competing while treated with synthetic testosterone.

Exemptions for testosterone use -- a substance banned in sports as a performance enhancer -- are being handed out at exceedingly high rates in the ever-popular combat sport of mixed martial arts, with state athletic commissions routinely granting allowances based solely on low lab values and diagnoses of hypogonadism, an "Outside the Lines" investigation has found. A major known cause of acquired hypogonadism: prior use of anabolic steroids.

MMA FIGHTERS WITH TRT EXEMPTIONS


In the past five years, at least 15 mixed martial artists have been issued exemptions to use testosterone, the vast majority revealed or confirmed through public records requests filed by "Outside the Lines" with the major state commissions or athletic bodies overseeing the sport. Continue to list »

In the past five years, at least 15 mixed martial artists have been issued exemptions to use testosterone, the vast majority revealed or confirmed through public records requests filed by "Outside the Lines" with the major state commissions or athletic bodies overseeing the sport. The sport itself has had more than 20,000 pro fighters over the past five years, according to record keeper mixedmartialarts.com, although fewer than 1,800 MMA combatants are under contract to the sport's dominant promoters -- Zuffa (UFC) and Bellator, which account for 11 of the fighters on TRT. Although only a small fraction, the number of exemptions still dwarfs what can be found in other sports:

• The International Olympic Committee did not issue a single testosterone exemption for the 2012 London Olympics, which featured 5,892 male athletes.

• The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency issued one testosterone exemption last year among the thousands of elite-level athletes under its jurisdiction.

• Major League Baseball has issued six exemptions to athletes over the past six seasons -- an average of 1,200 players populate its rosters each season.

• National Football League officials say testosterone exemptions are "very rare" and only a "handful" have been issued since 1990. Nearly 2,000 players circulate through rosters each season.

• No pro boxer is known to have had an exemption issued through a state athletic commission, and Nevada officials said they have never even received an application.

"It's a huge number," said Dr. Don Catlin, the country's leading anti-doping expert, of the MMA testosterone exemptions. "I am on the IOC committee that reviews [therapeutic-use exemptions for testosterone] requests. We essentially grant none. But in boxing and MMA there is no central control. There is no set of rules that everybody has to follow.

"There is a set of rules for each [state athletic commission], but they are kind of Mickey Mouse rules. So the route to being able to take testosterone is wide open. ... You go in and say 'I have these symptoms.' The doc says, 'Oh yeah, you got low testosterone.' You get a TUE."

Along with exemptions, several MMA fighters and officials also described to "Outside the Lines" widespread use of performance-enhancing substances in the sport. One top contender labeled PED use in the sport "rampant," and a prominent state athletic commission chairman matter-of-factly acknowledged: "We got some doping going on in MMA."

A few state commissions where MMA fights occur less frequently acknowledged they don't test for PEDs or don't require fighters to reveal whether they are being treated with testosterone. Nor, apparently, does any state -- including Nevada, arguably the most influential commission and a model for other regulators -- require notice in a bout agreement of an individual having an exemption to use testosterone, so an opponent is left to learn through the rumor mill, if at all.

Belfort-Rockhold
Josh Hedges/Zuffa LLC/Getty Images
Vitor Belfort knocks out Luke Rockhold with a spinning heel kick in their middleweight bout during the UFC on FX event in May 2013 in Brazil.
Drug testing in MMA is confined to postfight by the state athletic commissions that test for performance-enhancing substances, with Nevada believed to be the only commission attempting out-of-competition testing. The UFC also does some of its own testing, although officials declined comment and little is known about the program. By comparison, major pro leagues such as the NFL and MLB -- in part as a result of urging from Congress -- engage in far more rigorous programs that include testing at the start of camp or spring training as well as year-round, random testing.

"Outside the Lines" found the average age of the MMA fighters when granted their first testosterone exemption was 32 -- the youngest 24. The majority enjoyed exemptions from multiple states, and, in some instances, fighters were found to have simply informed a commission they were on TRT rather than filing a formal application to compete while being treated with testosterone.

U.S. and international anti-doping agencies insist therapeutic-use exemptions for testosterone should be rare and permitted only in dire medical cases such as testicular cancer and Hodgkin's disease, as is the norm in most major sports. The international standard for an exemption specifically states that "low-normal" levels of a hormone isn't justification for granting approval, also noting the same of isolated symptoms such as fatigue, slow recovery from exercise and decreased libido.

Dr. Richard Auchus, a leading endocrinologist and University of Michigan professor of internal medicine, described the incidence of low testosterone or what is known as hypogonadism in healthy 30-year-olds as "vanishingly small" -- or well less than 0.1 percent.

"What people have to understand is a [testosterone exemption] is granted for a disease, not for a [low] lab value," said Auchus, a consultant to USADA. "If you say idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, meaning 'I don't know why you have it, but you have low testosterone production and there is nothing wrong with your testes' -- well, that can happen because you are taking exogenous androgen [steroids]. That doesn't cut it."

The issue, said Catlin, is that synthetic tes
2/25/14 12:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FETT_GayFerPayNINJA
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/13/11
Posts: 25343

In before Orcus defends this garbage loophole called TRT...

2/25/14 12:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Judontkneedthisname3744
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/29/11
Posts: 8991
FETT_GayFerPayNINJA - 

In before Orcus defends this garbage loophole called TRT...


Him, Bucky boy, and many others lol.  Never before have we heard so much about TRT in any sport as we do daily with the UFC.  

 

 

2/25/14 12:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HITMAN DAN DIAZ
104 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/1/10
Posts: 1259

BAHAHAHAHA

2/25/14 1:16 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Judontkneedthisname3744
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/29/11
Posts: 8993

t

t

t

2/25/14 1:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JoeHurley
148 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/8/08
Posts: 2714
Article says MMA but you guys turn it into UFC. Phone Post 3.0
2/25/14 1:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Judontkneedthisname3744
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/29/11
Posts: 8994
JoeHurley - Article says MMA but you guys turn it into UFC. Phone Post 3.0

Thats my bad youre right, i guess because its main focus seemed to be UFC and its fighters but it did mention bellator as well.  

 

Can a mod change the title to MMA not UFC!

2/25/14 1:22 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
butcher4
9 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/27/05
Posts: 1071
Not Josh Gross, he's not with ESPN anymore. This is Mike Fish, who isn't an MMA reporter, so there's actual journalism in this article.
2/25/14 1:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 80939
More worthless mma "journalism".

"Exemptions for testosterone use -- a substance banned in sports as a performance enhancer -- are being handed out at exceedingly high rates in the ever-popular combat sport of mixed martial arts"

Then they go on to say 15 exemptions out of 20,000 athletes in the last 5 years. Or .075% of the athletes got exemptions. Less than 1/10th of one percent. That's an exceedingly high rate? And keep in mind this is a sport where guys are competing at the highest levels into their late 30s or even 40s.

He then takes that number and compares it unfavorably with MLB, where 6 were issued out of 1200 athletes. So, .5% of the MLB athletes got exemptions. Or almost SEVEN TIMES AS MANY athletes (per capita) got exemptions in MLB versus MMA.

Can Gross not do math? Or did he just not bother? This is pathetic.

"National Football League officials say testosterone exemptions are "very rare" and only a "handful" have been issued since 1990. Nearly 2,000 players circulate through rosters each season."

So, they've given "a handful" but won't say how many. Worthless statistic, yet Gross again included it like it's some trump card (and guys like LnP eat it up).

I think most would agree that the 15 athletes out of 20,000 in MMA, or less than 1/10th of 1%, would be a "handful", wouldn't we? Yet here NFL is presented as "a handful" while MMA is "exceedingly high rate". What a hilariously obvious bias.

"The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency issued one testosterone exemption last year among the thousands of elite-level athletes under its jurisdiction."

Again, worthless stat without saying how many athletes. If we just assumed 9000 (surely if it were 10,000 they would say so?), that's .0001% compared to MMA's .0007%. Since the MMA number is over 5 years, let's multiply USADA's number by 5 and then you get .0005 to MMA's .0007%. Wow what a travesty!!!

"No pro boxer is known to have had an exemption issued through a state athletic commission, and Nevada officials said they have never even received an application."

...and? If boxers did apply, they would get exemptions just as easily as MMA fighters do. There aren't special rules for MMA versus boxing. My guess is boxers simply go ahead and roid, like most of the MMA guys without exemptions do.

"U.S. and international anti-doping agencies insist therapeutic-use exemptions for testosterone should be rare and permitted only in dire medical cases such as testicular cancer and Hodgkin's disease, as is the norm in most major sports. The international standard for an exemption specifically states that "low-normal" levels of a hormone isn't justification for granting approval, also noting the same of isolated symptoms such as fatigue, slow recovery from exercise and decreased libido."

Who died and made them god? Regular joes get on TRT all the time. Who are they to say professional athletes should be allowed it only in cases of cancer and Hodgkin's?

""What people have to understand is a [testosterone exemption] is granted for a disease, not for a [low] lab value," said Auchus,"

Yeah? He speaks for everyone? How many guys on the OG, or any other forum you want to name, are on TRT? How many of them are diseased? These guys LOVE to speak like they are the mouthpiece for everyone.

I guarantee everyone here knows a guy who is on prescribed TRT, and I doubt that person is diseased.

2/25/14 1:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 02/25/14 1:29 PM
Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 80940
"This is Mike Fish, who isn't an MMA reporter, so there's actual journalism in this article."

Yeah, great journalism. Comparing 15 out of 20,000 over 5 years with an undisclosed "handful" in NFL, a HIGHER percentage in MLB, 1 out of an unknown quantity in one year by USADA, and somehow concluding that MMA does it at "an exceedingly high rate". Literally the only comparison he made that we have enough information to compare is MLB where the ratio of exemptions to athletes is HIGHER than in MMA.

Yes, great journalism.
2/25/14 1:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Judontkneedthisname3744
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/29/11
Posts: 8995

HAHAHAH Heeeeeeeeeere comes Orcus! and with that

 

2/25/14 1:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ramon Maroni
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/7/07
Posts: 12386
Subbed
2/25/14 1:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Glovegate
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/2/10
Posts: 8056
Can't stand orcus.

But he's raping it here.
2/25/14 1:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hired Gun
460 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/5/03
Posts: 37455
Bisping's comments

Michael "The Count" Bisping probably knows best what a shot of testosterone can do, although by all accounts he hasn't dabbled in the stuff himself.

The British middleweight (24-5) has suffered the misfortune of having been in the octagon against three fighters benefiting from testosterone exemptions: Dan Henderson, Sonnen and Belfort, accomplished veterans in their mid to late 30s at the time. He lost to them all, done in twice by KO or TKO -- the first of his career.

"It is obviously advantageous if you are on it," said Bisping, dropped by a Belfort leg kick in January 2013. "Look at somebody like Vitor -- you know he failed a drug test [in 2006]. And one side effect of taking steroids is reduction of testosterone production. So now he is being rewarded for cheating in the past. You also have to understand that, as your body gets older, certain parts slow down a little. On the flip side of it, you also got more ring experience.

"These older guys have had 30 or 40 professional fights, so they have more experience, plus they got the scientific supplementation. It is ridiculous. Of course, we're also not trying to hit a ball with a bat or throw it in a hoop. We're trying to knock our opponents out. So somebody is going to get hurt one day."

Indeed, the safety issue is dicey in a combat sport in which the endgame is inflicting enough bodily harm to send an opponent into submission -- occasionally via a blow to the head.

But whether naive or merely oblivious to the rumor mill, 34-year-old Bisping claims he was ignorant of his past opponents' testosterone exemptions when he stepped in the octagon. His suspicions about Belfort perked up after their 2013 fight in Sao Paulo.

"With Vitor Belfort, there was a whole cloud of secrecy regarding his drug test," Bisping said. "A lot of people saying he failed it. So I was obviously very intrigued and I contacted the UFC and they said, 'No, he hasn't failed it, but he did have a TRT exemption certificate."'

Only a month after the fight, amid a firestorm of rumors, the UFC issued a statement revealing Belfort had been on a medically approved TRT regimen under the supervision of a Nevada physician. Coming two years after Belfort now acknowledges having begun TRT, the release said the regimen had been initiated after a diagnosis of "hypogonadism, or low testosterone."

Despite his current hardened stance, Bisping said he likely would not have balked at challenging Belfort even had he known of his testosterone supplementation. He said, though, that friends told him after the fight of having feared for his well-being because of the "sheer size" of Belfort.

"The guy was so heavily muscled," Bisping said. "At the time, you are a fighter and you believe you are going to win. So I never thought about it. Looking back, you can clearly see he was on something stronger than a frosty shake."

Nor is the fiery Brit the lone voice of suspicion in a sport in which doping has evolved through the years -- as in many others -- from hard-core steroids to growth hormone and designer drugs. Or what one UFC contender referred to collectively as "blue gasoline -- the extra fuel."

The twist is that no other sport appears to have so freely handed out passes to TRT.
2/25/14 1:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ingrained Media
184 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/6/06
Posts: 2860
Ingrained Media, President
Another big issue is the lack of disclosure for those getting exemptions.
2/25/14 1:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
chawkins
40 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/05
Posts: 3124
orcus ++

Saying that there's this huge epidemic of guys getting TRT exemptions simply doesn't pass muster.

Now, arguing whether or not TRT is fair is another story completely. But the author of the article seems to be trying to make that case indirectly, using flawed examples of how rampant TRT is as de facto evidence of its unfairness. That doesn't pass muster, either.
2/25/14 2:01 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
chawkins
40 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 02/25/14 2:01 PM
Member Since: 12/14/05
Posts: 3125
Another big issue is the lack of disclosure for those getting exemptions.


In cases where a guy has failed a steroid test prior, 100% agreed.

Other than that, TRT is probably subject to the same medical privacy laws that cover every other medical issue.
2/25/14 2:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Osbot
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/16/09
Posts: 973
orcus - More worthless mma "journalism".

"Exemptions for testosterone use -- a substance banned in sports as a performance enhancer -- are being handed out at exceedingly high rates in the ever-popular combat sport of mixed martial arts"

Then they go on to say 15 exemptions out of 20,000 athletes in the last 5 years. Or .075% of the athletes got exemptions. Less than 1/10th of one percent. That's an exceedingly high rate? And keep in mind this is a sport where guys are competing at the highest levels into their late 30s or even 40s.

He then takes that number and compares it unfavorably with MLB, where 6 were issued out of 1200 athletes. So, .5% of the MLB athletes got exemptions. Or almost SEVEN TIMES AS MANY athletes (per capita) got exemptions in MLB versus MMA.

Can Gross not do math? Or did he just not bother? This is pathetic.

"National Football League officials say testosterone exemptions are "very rare" and only a "handful" have been issued since 1990. Nearly 2,000 players circulate through rosters each season."

So, they've given "a handful" but won't say how many. Worthless statistic, yet Gross again included it like it's some trump card (and guys like LnP eat it up).

I think most would agree that the 15 athletes out of 20,000 in MMA, or less than 1/10th of 1%, would be a "handful", wouldn't we? Yet here NFL is presented as "a handful" while MMA is "exceedingly high rate". What a hilariously obvious bias.

"The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency issued one testosterone exemption last year among the thousands of elite-level athletes under its jurisdiction."

Again, worthless stat without saying how many athletes. If we just assumed 9000 (surely if it were 10,000 they would say so?), that's .0001% compared to MMA's .0007%. Since the MMA number is over 5 years, let's multiply USADA's number by 5 and then you get .0005 to MMA's .0007%. Wow what a travesty!!!

"No pro boxer is known to have had an exemption issued through a state athletic commission, and Nevada officials said they have never even received an application."

...and? If boxers did apply, they would get exemptions just as easily as MMA fighters do. There aren't special rules for MMA versus boxing. My guess is boxers simply go ahead and roid, like most of the MMA guys without exemptions do.

"U.S. and international anti-doping agencies insist therapeutic-use exemptions for testosterone should be rare and permitted only in dire medical cases such as testicular cancer and Hodgkin's disease, as is the norm in most major sports. The international standard for an exemption specifically states that "low-normal" levels of a hormone isn't justification for granting approval, also noting the same of isolated symptoms such as fatigue, slow recovery from exercise and decreased libido."

Who died and made them god? Regular joes get on TRT all the time. Who are they to say professional athletes should be allowed it only in cases of cancer and Hodgkin's?

""What people have to understand is a [testosterone exemption] is granted for a disease, not for a [low] lab value," said Auchus,"

Yeah? He speaks for everyone? How many guys on the OG, or any other forum you want to name, are on TRT? How many of them are diseased? These guys LOVE to speak like they are the mouthpiece for everyone.

I guarantee everyone here knows a guy who is on prescribed TRT, and I doubt that person is diseased.


Fail.

Comparing the elite professionals in a sport, to the entire participating body in MMA.

Why don't you compare like for like. Everyone playing Baseball at every professional level?

You just can't argue for shit without talking out your ass and twisting facts.

I happen to agree that many PED's should not be illegal. However, twisting numbers to present a false argument is just typical. I'm sure it works on many off the dim bulbs that frequent these forums so chin up little guy. Keep on plucking that low hanging fruit.
2/25/14 2:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 80941
" He said, though, that friends told him after the fight of having feared for his well-being because of the "sheer size" of Belfort."

Yeah it's like Tibau/Uno all over again:

http://www.kimura.se/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/vitor-belfort-michael-bisping.jpg

http://i.eurosport.com/2013/01/20/939948-15515263-640-360.jpg

"Looking back, you can clearly see he was on something stronger than a frosty shake.""

Totally. He fucking dwarfed Rockhold too:
http://imguol.com/2013/05/17/vitor-belfort-e-luke-rockhold-que-fazem-a-luta-principal-do-ufc-jaragua-se-estranharam-apos-a-pesagem-para-o-evento-1368823178385_1024x768.jpg

No one looks like Belfort with roids. Compare his superhuman physique with those of some of his all-natural middleweight colleagues:

http://www2.cdn.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/20120713072957_003_Luke_Rockhold2.JPG

http://fightzonelive.altervista.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ronald-jacare.jpg

http://usatmmajunkie.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/tim-kennedy-6.jpg





2/25/14 2:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Team GDP
398 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/1/10
Posts: 6684

i love how orcus skews the numbers by leaving out this part: 

although fewer than 1,800 MMA combatants are under contract to the sport's dominant promoters -- Zuffa (UFC) and Bellator, which account for 11 of the fighters on TRT. 

 

Who died and made them god? Regular joes get on TRT all the time. Who are they to say professional athletes should be allowed it only in cases of cancer and Hodgkin's? 

Yeah? He speaks for everyone? How many guys on the OG, or any other forum you want to name, are on TRT? How many of them are diseased? These guys LOVE to speak like they are the mouthpiece for everyone. 

they are experts in the area, which gives their opinion more weight than someone on a forum. why does it matter how many 'regular joes' are on trt? i'm not getting what point you are trying to make.

 

How many people are on zoloft? How many people should actually be on zoloft? what he is trying to say, i assume, is that simply having low t is not enough to warrant a prescription. people are being inocrrectly prescribed a very powerful steroid. 

2/25/14 2:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
clown makeup
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/6/12
Posts: 235

11 out of 1800 is what they are talking about

 

 

1,800 MMA combatants are under contract to the sport's dominant promoters -- Zuffa (UFC) and Bellator, which account for 11 of the fighters on TRT
2/25/14 2:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Team GDP
398 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/1/10
Posts: 6685

"Looking back, you can clearly see he was on something stronger than a frosty shake."

that comment was absolutely hilarious

2/25/14 2:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 80942
"Comparing the elite professionals in a sport, to the entire participating body in MMA. Why don't you compare like for like. Everyone playing Baseball at every professional level?
You just can't argue for shit without talking out your ass and twisting facts."

Are you talking about me or the "journalist"? All I can compare is the information HE chose to publish to make his point. HE is the one who said MMA gave out exemptions at "exceedingly high rates" and then gave, in support of that statement, stats showing that MLB gave out a HIGHER rate of exemptions, NFL would not reveal how many they had given out, and USADA gave out 1 in one given year out of an indeterminate number of athletes.

Sounds like you're a bit butthurt over something. I can't think of any other reason why you would accuse ME of not "comparing like for like" while apparently having no problem with this "journalism".

2/25/14 2:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Fly Rodder
4 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/21/06
Posts: 3134
"Why don't you compare like for like. Everyone playing Baseball at every professional level?"

Yeah, no shit. If you're not good at MMA, taking TRT won't help much if at all. If you're already athletic, skilled, and talented, every little advantage helps.

TRT won't make me Jon Jones. But steroids now and TRT later might Jon Jones unbeatable.

Focus on the top 10-15 where the TRT advantage matters most.
2/25/14 2:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Judontkneedthisname3744
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/29/11
Posts: 8996
Team GDP - 

"Looking back, you can clearly see he was on something stronger than a frosty shake."

that comment was absolutely hilarious


That shit got me too lol.

 

Orcus i am confused are you going against Vitor now? Before you were his biggest supporter. 


Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.