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UnderGround Forums >> Rener defends online Gracie University


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3/15/14 9:33 AM
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Underground Blog
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MixedMartialArts.com
 

Modern mixed martial arts owes its existence to the Gracie Family, notably Helio's line. Helio developed the technique of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. His son Rorion popularized it. Now the third generation, Rener and Ryron, have taken it upon themselves to educate people about BJJ.

Controversially, part of that process is their online courses, in which they award rank via video. After just six years, their Gracie University reportedly has 90,000 students in nearly 200 countries. The practice has received wide criticism, including from family members Renzo and Relson.

In an interview with Tatame, Rener offers a defense, and says it is an fact a superior alternative to learning BJJ in an actual academy.

"Some people do not understand that online study is even more effective than learning in the traditional classroom," said Rener, via Google Translate. "In a live class, there are students of all stripes, and the teacher gives the same lesson for everyone. Online, each has its specific class. Some people tried to learn in the classroom, but the lessons were random, and some students had difficulty learning. And what did they do? Resorted to Gracie University!"


3/15/14 9:36 AM
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JoeHurley
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It's definitely more effective for making money.

3/15/14 9:36 AM
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andercansilva
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im a white belt under this guys. never rolled in my life.
3/15/14 9:39 AM
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Joe Bossenberry
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Nothing can, or ever will replace training with real people in an academy
3/15/14 9:49 AM
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UK Asylum
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Learning to fight online is in no way superior to learning with an actual instructor and real training partners.

Soon, being a black belt under the Gracies will mean next to nothing if they have 90000 students.
3/15/14 9:54 AM
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Soup and Beer
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I paid for the option to just buy the black belt without having to take any of the courses.  Now I wear my black belt everywhere I go, including work and church.

3/15/14 10:04 AM
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its a great product and works well for a lot of ppl.
as far as sparring goes, that cant be replaced,on the other hand sparring early can cause many ppl to drop out , lose focus and slow dn the learning curve.im not talking about the 1 guy out of 100 that is a mat rat,just the average joe's.




3/15/14 10:10 AM
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RyannVonDoom
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Its a great concept and wish them success in it. Phone Post 3.0
3/15/14 10:16 AM
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Marcgeo13
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"My daddy never do flying triangles or do learn jiu jitsu online" Phone Post 3.0
3/15/14 10:27 AM
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Joe Bossenberry
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I took the UFC online training course....I am now the UFC welterweight champion and I haven't even had to fight once
3/15/14 10:48 AM
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BigEyedFish
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IMHO developing muscle memory through sparring is so crucial to a good BJJ program.  I see the point about learning a focused and level specific set of techniques, but if you cant train your body to execute them under pressure, what is the use? Besides making money of course..

3/15/14 10:52 AM
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Gomrad
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Joe Bossenberry - I took the UFC online training course....I am now the UFC welterweight champion and I haven't even had to fight once
VGJJ

















(Video Game) Phone Post 3.0
3/15/14 11:16 AM
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BshMstr
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such an odd thing to say....

i could see that it's an effective way to teach GJJ to those that can't get to a gym, but to say it's superior is pretty weird....

3/15/14 11:37 AM
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mada
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No way it's good for anything more than a supplement to real training. Repping moves on a grappling dummy is better than nothing but in no way is equal to live training and sparring. Also, if you're doing the move incorrectly you will just be practicing bad habits. You need immediate feedback to correctly practice moves. Saying it's better than a live class is a farce and proves the critics points. Phone Post 3.0
3/15/14 11:51 AM
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Mr Mike from NC
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I have a huge collection of DVDs and, have always lost interest, realizing that I need training partners to effectively practice the techniques. The Gracie Combative series focuses on basic techniques, with variations and, are presented in a very detailed manner. Anyone practicing the curriculum on the side with partners and, then going to class will probably learn a lot of basics that may not be taught in class, especially when your classmates are blue and, purple belts. It will take much longer to pick up the basics just going to class, compared with supplemental training under a details curriculum like the combative series.
3/15/14 11:57 AM
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Wes_Mantooth
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JoeHurley - 

It's definitely more effective for making money.


Literal LOL. I agree 100%
3/15/14 12:45 PM
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supersaiyan
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yea as a supplement aspect yes... even I had gotten a couple vids here n there to help my game but I was at least well VERSED in BJJ when I did that.


I cant fathom the story behind

"Yea so this new online GRACIE ACADEMY Certified bb bjj guy shows up at the spot and...
3/15/14 1:11 PM
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Stipe
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I don't see why he'd even care to "defend" it...

If he has 90 000 students, it's as successful of a project as it gets.
3/15/14 1:17 PM
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Stipe
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UK Asylum - Learning to fight online is in no way superior to learning with an actual instructor and real training partners.

Soon, being a black belt under the Gracies will mean next to nothing if they have 90000 students.

I don't think it's an either/or. You definitely will have to practice the moves from the(ir) curriculum with real training partner, and no doubt rolling has to be there as well
3/15/14 1:19 PM
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Animal Mother
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Rener is also a black belt in bullshiting. Phone Post 3.0
3/15/14 1:36 PM
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JoejitsuMD
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This app sucks so bad. Write out a reply only to have it stuck in "posting" and won't post! Phone Post
3/15/14 1:37 PM
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Muzalini
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Let's post some facts though.
A: You can't get higher than a blue belt stripe 1 online.
B: You must have a dedicated sparring partner to do the white to blue belt curriculum.
C: The program is designed for people with zero knowledge of Jiu Jitsu not to replace your current school.

The basic fundamentals they teach are far more broken down and detailed than 90% of other jiu jitsu schools, the program helps those who cannot get to a school in their area and would otherwise have no way of learning. Take a look at guys back in the nhb days learning a lot of their training methods through VHS tapes, ie Jeremy Horn. Phone Post 3.0
3/15/14 1:42 PM
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JoejitsuMD
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I think you guys see "online belts" and don't really think about it more than that.  When you do that you lose focus of the positives of such a program.  The main benefit of gracie university is the structural organization and progress in techniques as one advances in BJJ.  Instead of random techniques taught out of sequence, they set things so guys should be learning certain things at each belt level.  Anyone who has advanced through BJJ knows this is a major problem with how BJJ is taught and impairs students' progress.  About sparring, their in house blue belts get a blue belt without sparring anyway.  It's considered a beginner belt in which they have learned the basic self defense techniques they teach in combatives.  With that in mind a lot of people will probably get blue belts from them online and be just as proficient in BJJ as their new in house blue belts.  As someone previously said, there is no replacement for sparring and the Gracie boys know this.  You cannot get proficient or advanced in BJJ without significant mat time.  I am willing to bet not one single person will get a purple belt through Gracie U without spending an enormous amount of time in a real academy on the mat and testing with Ryron or Rener in person.  I'm also willing to bet they will be so strict that most club purple belts would fail their in person purple belt test without spending a great deal of time studying and training the techniques taught online.  Rener and Ryron know this as well, so the marketing is a bit sneaky (they have learned from Rorion, what do you expect).  So while the primary goal is to make money with it, and it likely sends the wrong message (you can earn belts online!), in reality it is misleading about who will and won't be able to get belts and is actually probably a very good product.  If I had the time to do it I would definitely practice the curriculum in sequence as a bonus to my weekly BJJ classes.  
3/15/14 1:44 PM
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Sangaku
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All jokes aside, this is a disgrace. Have a home study course, but DO NOT award belts without multiple visits from certified black belts for assessment.

Locally, we have 2 online purple belts running an academy. The first is the head instructor who, as a blue belt, was invited to roll with us at our gym. He rolled once with a newer blue belt who played with him. Honest assessment from the blue belt is that he felt like a beginner white belt. 2 months later we attended a black belt seminar at his academy, where he chose not to roll with anyone during the free roll session at the end. He was the only one who elected not to do this, despite having a black belt present who could have assessed him. He was also the one one of 30 present who chose not to roll. Fast forward 6 months to last week and he is awarded his purple belt.

The other purple competed as a white belt at a local tournament 3 months ago and did not in his division. Last week he got his purple belt.


I worked a hard, long 6 years and won multiple tourament titles before being awarded my purple. I was honoured to receive it, and what Rener and Co. are doing spits in the face of that accomplishment.

Yes, yes a belt is just a peice of cloth, but if that is your argument for indifference you are missing the point completely.



3/15/14 1:54 PM
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Stipe
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Muzalini - Let's post some facts though.
A: You can't get higher than a blue belt stripe 1 online.
B: You must have a dedicated sparring partner to do the white to blue belt curriculum.
C: The program is designed for people with zero knowledge of Jiu Jitsu not to replace your current school.

The basic fundamentals they teach are far more broken down and detailed than 90% of other jiu jitsu schools, the program helps those who cannot get to a school in their area and would otherwise have no way of learning. Take a look at guys back in the nhb days learning a lot of their training methods through VHS tapes, ie Jeremy Horn. Phone Post 3.0

Agreed with one thing to add - people with way way way more than zero knowledge of jiu jitsu can learn from materials such as this one, for sure.
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