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3/21/14 8:42 AM
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formerwrestler1
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Have a lot of conversations with my leftist (liberal) friends regarding all kinds of political issues:  Pro-life/Pro-choice, Benghazi, ineptitude of foreign policy, our poor economy, unemployment, healthcare, etc,,  But the thing that really amazes me about those on the left is the fact that they are so tremendously concerned with the "Global Warming" propaganda and the fact that they believe all the "tales of doom" put out by the IPCC and the left leaning news media, but they appear to be totally unconcerned with the tremendous debt our current administration is layering on our future generations. 

On one hand they are almost giddy about the "theoretical Global Warming" predistions made by the IPCC "scientists" and feel "we have to do something, now or our planet will burn to a crisp in 20-50 years", but fail to see the damage the out of control spending is causing, today.

Notice no name calling other than "leftist", so lets try to have a rational conversation regarding these two "hot" political issues.

3/21/14 8:47 AM
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ziggystardust
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To me it's equally amazing how you can't be deeply concerened by out of control spending or the grave environmental issues the world is facing. Phone Post
3/21/14 8:52 AM
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formerwrestler1
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I am deeply concerned by the out of control spending.  Just don't believe that Global Warming is man made.  I think it is a political issue and tons of money are being spent on this falacy.

 

3/21/14 9:02 AM
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ziggystardust
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If you don't care about scientific consencus I'm not going to debate it with you. Google "nine planetary boundaries" - there's plenty of environmental issues to be concerned about apart from climate change. Phone Post
3/21/14 9:12 AM
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formerwrestler1
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Edited: 03/21/14 9:12 AM
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More propaganda by the climate scientists... Words like "Scientific consensus" crack me up....Please explain why increased CO2 emissions don't always cause increase in temps, then we can talk.

You sir are swayed by the propaganda machine.....

While you are at it, please explain how 36 of the 38 IPCC models have completely overblown predictions of what the temperatures have actually been since 1980?

 

3/21/14 9:14 AM
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Josh Balis
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"..... As for characterizing global warming as simply a "liberal cause": In a now famous study finding that 97 percent of scientific studies (that bother to take a position on the matter) agree with the idea of human-caused global warming, researchers reviewed 12,000 scientific abstracts published between the years 1991 and 2011. In other words, this is a field in which a very large volume of science is being published. That hardly sounds like an advocacy endeavor."

 

stupid "lefties" and their stupid global warming and science 

 

3/21/14 9:21 AM
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Vitor29
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Josh Balis -

"..... As for characterizing global warming as simply a "liberal cause": In a now famous study finding that 97 percent of scientific studies (that bother to take a position on the matter) agree with the idea of human-caused global warming, researchers reviewed 12,000 scientific abstracts published between the years 1991 and 2011. In other words, this is a field in which a very large volume of science is being published. That hardly sounds like an advocacy endeavor."

 

stupid "lefties" and their stupid global warming and science 

 

Too bad there's so many variables we don't know about regarding climate that the computer models are bullshit. Phone Post 3.0
3/21/14 9:26 AM
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formerwrestler1
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Edited: 03/21/14 9:27 AM
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Just because someone posts "97% of scientistic studies agree;;;"  Does not make it true.  People can type anything they want and most people who read it will believe it. 

Unfortunately, the "devil is in the details".  You may want to research a little about the IPCC, how and why it was formed, and how many former IPCC scientists no longer want to even be associated with this now "extreme" leftist organization cherry picks it;'s science....The grant money and fame involved in "Global Warming Science" is unbelievably huge.....

DO you really believe that 97% of scientists agree that man made global warming is the cause of our climate change?

Global Warming is money....Money is  power...True science is secondary.

Consider that our atmosphere contains roughly .014% CO2.  40% of the CO2 is man-made.  To do the math:  .0056% of our atmosphere is man made CO2.  Do you really thnk that small amount can overcome the other 99.44% of the atmosphere?  What about the Sun, clouds, the oceans?

 

3/21/14 9:29 AM
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ziggystardust
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formerwrestler1 -

More propaganda by the climate scientists... Words like "Scientific consensus" crack me up....Please explain why increased CO2 emissions don't always cause increase in temps, then we can talk.

You sir are swayed by the propaganda machine.....

While you are at it, please explain how 36 of the 38 IPCC models have completely overblown predictions of what the temperatures have actually been since 1980?

 

You must have missed the part where I didn't see any point in debating. I gave you eight other issues to be concerned about instead. Phone Post
3/21/14 9:30 AM
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steve85uk
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Ill go with the scientists Phone Post 3.0
3/21/14 9:37 AM
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steve85uk
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Sure they may get it wrong, but I'd rather go with the guys who study it / all their life than the right who ignore it for religious or financial reasons, Phone Post 3.0
3/21/14 9:41 AM
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Josh Balis
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formerwrestler1 - 

Just because someone posts "97% of scientistic studies agree;;;"  Does not make it true.  People can type anything they want and most people who read it will believe it. 

Unfortunately, the "devil is in the details".  You may want to research a little about the IPCC, how and why it was formed, and how many former IPCC scientists no longer want to even be associated with this now "extreme" leftist organization cherry picks it;'s science....The grant money and fame involved in "Global Warming Science" is unbelievably huge.....

DO you really believe that 97% of scientists agree that man made global warming is the cause of our climate change?

Global Warming is money....Money is  power...True science is secondary.

Consider that our atmosphere contains roughly .014% CO2.  40% of the CO2 is man-made.  To do the math:  .0056% of our atmosphere is man made CO2.  Do you really thnk that small amount can overcome the other 99.44% of the atmosphere?  What about the Sun, clouds, the oceans?

 


i did not say it the nationa academy of science does.

W. R. L. Anderegg, “Expert Credibility in Climate Change,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Vol. 107 No. 27, 12107-12109 (21 June 2010); DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1003187107.

it would appear that NASA agree's also

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus

none of what i quoted was IPCC....... 

you can toss out numbers all day, spout from the roof I am just gonna ride with the vast majority on this one.....same goes for evolution

3/21/14 9:47 AM
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formerwrestler1
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ziggystardust - 
formerwrestler1 -

More propaganda by the climate scientists... Words like "Scientific consensus" crack me up....Please explain why increased CO2 emissions don't always cause increase in temps, then we can talk.

You sir are swayed by the propaganda machine.....

While you are at it, please explain how 36 of the 38 IPCC models have completely overblown predictions of what the temperatures have actually been since 1980?

 

You must have missed the part where I didn't see any point in debating. I gave you eight other issues to be concerned about instead. Phone Post

Unfortunately, you missed the point entirely.  The IPCC is the driving force in the Doom of Global Warming.  They use big fancy words and diagrams to make these big, scary predictions, but their models don't work in going back to actual history. 

I did Google your "nine planetary bounderies".  There is some good interesting stuff in there...However, there is also a bunch of "fluff" that promotes the grand anthropologic GW idea......

The simple fact is that GW scientists claim that man-made CO2 emissions cause global warming.  Everyone agrees that it has gotten @ 1.4 degrees warmer since 1880.  No argument there.  The problem lies with the fact that most of this warming occured between 1880 and 1940.

During WWII and for the 35 years following the war, there was tremendous industrial growth all across the world.  In North America, Europe, and Japan the boom in industrial ization was tremendous.  The great war machine was ramped up building tanks, planes, ships, ammunition.  Then once the war ended, the world had to rebuild.  Factories, buildings, all industry had to be rebuild over much of the world.  CO2 emissions were at record levels, But a funny thing happened.......Global temps fell from 1940 through 1975.  How can this be? 35 years? 

The "little Ice Age" occurred in Europe in the 14th century,  Industry and man-made CO2 emissions were non-existent in the pre-industrial age. 

1200-1300 years ago there was the "Mid Evil Warm Period" that preceded this, again extreme cooling and warming before the industrial (man-made CO2) revolution.

Facts can be pesky little details when dealing with global warming. 

 

3/21/14 10:16 AM
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formerwrestler1
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Josh Balis....You may be interested to learn that former NASA Scientist Dr. Roy Spencer is now a vocal opponent to the man-made GW theory....The article you listed was from 2010.  Many scientists have learned a great deal about the study of climate and the "natural variability" of earth, and the "tide is turning".  Google his name and take a look at what he says.....

I am not saying we should be reckless with the environment.  Actually I believe we should be good stewards with the earth and our environment.  However, part of that is being very critical of these "scientific" reports.

There is an astounding amount of money being funneled into anthropologic global warming.  Literally billions of dollars are spent each year by governments (politicians) on GW.  Scinetists know that to have a greater chance of success for getting grants ($) for their studies, they need to tie their science to man-made GW.  Rarely do any denier scientists get their reports mentioned in the evening news.

 

 

3/21/14 10:24 AM
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attjack
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formerwrestler1 -

I am deeply concerned by the out of control spending.  Just don't believe that Global Warming is man made.  I think it is a political issue and tons of money are being spent on this falacy.

 

What i find interesting is your feeling about climate change is faith based. Only in America are there many people with a similar gut feeling. Phone Post 3.0
3/21/14 10:28 AM
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formerwrestler1
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attjack - 
formerwrestler1 -

I am deeply concerned by the out of control spending.  Just don't believe that Global Warming is man made.  I think it is a political issue and tons of money are being spent on this falacy.

 

What i find interesting is your feeling about climate change is faith based. Only in America are there many people with a similar gut feeling. Phone Post 3.0

Huh?  What from what I have stated has anything to do with religion?  The facts I have stated are well documented. Nothing has to do with my religious beliefs.  You seem to be making a strange leap here.  Please explain?

 

3/21/14 10:50 AM
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Josh Balis
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what you are failing to realize is that the United States like most countries has a budget for science via government grants and other means.  There is a very rigorious process in which to apply for this money.  If your grant for global warming does not cut it they give the money to another science project.  So yes we spend money in this field if we did not spend it on global warming we would spend in another science related field.  So the argument that is a money grab is a falacy.  Either we fund project x or we fund project y either way the same universities will be getting funded for something.  I have never heard of someone saying "wow there is great money in being a scientist so I can con the system to fund my 80k a year research job that cost me 200k in student loans and 10 years of my life." I am have a hard time believing that tens of thousands of scientists are involved in a massive cover up to screw coal factories.  In fact I would venture that you can ask any scientist in any field of science andthey will with about 97% consistancy agree global warming exists.  

please what school did you go to? where does your science PhD come from?

3/21/14 11:03 AM
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Nexuscrawlers
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The OP should have been framed as "why not care about both" instead of "I don't agree global warming is an important issue"

Now this thread is just like every other climate change thread. Lots of rhetoric without getting anywhere. Phone Post 3.0
3/21/14 11:09 AM
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The Man With No Screen Name
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formerwrestler1 -

Just because someone posts "97% of scientistic studies agree;;;"  Does not make it true.  People can type anything they want and most people who read it will believe it. 

Unfortunately, the "devil is in the details".  You may want to research a little about the IPCC, how and why it was formed, and how many former IPCC scientists no longer want to even be associated with this now "extreme" leftist organization cherry picks it;'s science....The grant money and fame involved in "Global Warming Science" is unbelievably huge.....

DO you really believe that 97% of scientists agree that man made global warming is the cause of our climate change?

Global Warming is money....Money is  power...True science is secondary.

Consider that our atmosphere contains roughly .014% CO2.  40% of the CO2 is man-made.  To do the math:  .0056% of our atmosphere is man made CO2.  Do you really thnk that small amount can overcome the other 99.44% of the atmosphere?  What about the Sun, clouds, the oceans?

 

VU for being intelligent! Phone Post 3.0
3/21/14 11:11 AM
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BrocksEliteStandUp
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People waste their lives trying to convince others to think the way they do, whether it's politics, religion, sports teams, musical preferences.

People are different... Get the fuck over it ! Phone Post 3.0
3/21/14 11:14 AM
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StevetheWeasel
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"Consider that our atmosphere contains roughly .014% CO2. 40% of the CO2 is man-made. To do the math: .0056% of our atmosphere is man made CO2. Do you really thnk that small amount can overcome the other 99.44% of the atmosphere? What about the Sun, clouds, the oceans?"


Astounding!

I'm amazed that every qualified expert on the planet hasn't considered this.

Thank Zeus for the OG font of knowledge!
3/21/14 11:17 AM
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formerwrestler1
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I'm just looking at facts.  I have presented to you an opportunity to get some factual information, but you simply choose to ignore it and continue on with your belief in the politics of global warming.  You minimize the fact that Global Warming is a multi-billion dollar industry.  What do you think these "climate" scientists would do with their time, if it were not for the Global Warming studies?  How would they pay for their educations if it were determined that we are merely in a cycle like the ones since the beginning of time.  If we really did not affect the environment by cutting our lawn, or filling our car with gas?

How do third world countries "develop" without access to cheap power?  Can't build factories off of solar or wind energy.  They need inexpensivce, efficient energy to do it.  Sure Nuclear energy is an option, but it too is very expensive and environmentally dangerous.  Additionally, it is as of yet not well developed to be used world wide. Fully 2/3 of earths population resides in developing countries.  Are you saying we must sacrifice their potential quality of life in order to promote this GW agenda. Eventhough the science is suspect and can be amnipulated by varying the inputs at best?

Don't need a PhD to see that the climate models used by the "97% of  the worlds tip scinetists" use are woefully inaccurate.  36 of the 38 models (which can be manipulated by changing the inputs) used by the scientists did not predict the current 17 year "lull" in temperatures.   None of them can explain the fact that for 35 years our global temperatures fell after 1940.

Take a look at the solar activity as it relates to global temoeratures for the last 400 years and see if perhaps the sun is what influences our global temperatures, more than the .0056% of man-made CO2.

Anthropologic Global Warming is a political issue.  Political issues mean money.  You are not unlike many who have been swayed by the bombardment of the leftists in the media who love to report on these outlandish predictions, because they get an audience.

Science is great, but it is even better when it works both ways. 

 

3/21/14 11:22 AM
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formerwrestler1
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Nexuscrawlers - The OP should have been framed as "why not care about both" instead of "I don't agree global warming is an important issue"

Now this thread is just like every other climate change thread. Lots of rhetoric without getting anywhere. Phone Post 3.0

Thanks for making my point.  Those on the left are completely unconcerned with the fact that our current administration is spending money our children and our children's children have not even earned yet.....Very sad.

3/21/14 11:30 AM
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DirkH
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Strange thing about conservatives.....When Dick Cheney said "Reagan taught us that deficits don't matter", they were silent, when Democrats are in charge you would think deficit spending is akin to baby rape.


That said leftists are mostly nuts. Someone asked me the other day how I felt about Global Warming, to which I had to reply "The science or the religion?" It's a religion with leftists, and the only "salvation" possible is by accepting world wide socialism.

Until global warming alarmist support nukes, I simply cannot take the seriously.
3/21/14 11:38 AM
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jzspanky
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yet the deficit for the last quarter was the smallest it has been in 14 years... $81 billion.

Spending isn't "out of control"... It's actually small compared to GDP and growth.

But what do facts matter when you have strong opinions, right? I mean are you really listening to climate science advice from a guy who got his phd for Google U? Phone Post 3.0

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