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UnderGround Forums >> White on Shields: "He's never going to be the guy"

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4/8/14 9:20 PM
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IGOTBELCHED
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Edited: 04/08/14 9:26 PM
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<blockquote>danggook - <span id='userPost49008270' class='User-333066'><blockquote>IGOTBELCHED - Lol how many guys in the ufc are going to be the guy then? Why not release them all and have fuck all fighters. Its times like this when you know MMA isn't a sport its a private business owned by ZUFFA, bush league.</blockquote>most pro sports are private businesses. and most have built in rule to prevent stalling. shot clock in basketball and play clock in football. if there was a "do something" clock in mma fighters like Jake would get taken care of appropriately. <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/></span></blockquote><br /> <br />
Not really, sports leagues are private businesses for the most part not sports. In response to your point on the shot clock, okay that enhances the game, fair enough, however take this analogy, say in premier league football, a team can go through the season grinding results and as long as they get enough points regardless of style by the end of the season as long as they are not in the bottom three in the league they stay up, a team isn't just relegated because they play ugly football.
4/8/14 9:22 PM
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IGOTBELCHED
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HarryPalms - 
danggook - 
Thacommish -
danggook - 
IGOTBELCHED - Lol how many guys in the ufc are going to be the guy then? Why not release them all and have fuck all fighters. Its times like this when you know MMA isn't a sport its a private business owned by ZUFFA, bush league.
most pro sports are private businesses. and most have built in rule to prevent stalling. shot clock in basketball and play clock in football. if there was a "do something" clock in mma fighters like Jake would get taken care of appropriately. Phone Post 3.0

and that its who is fault? Btw they do have built in rules to prevent stalling. Refs stand people up all the time.
the fault of the guy stalling. and standups are at refs discretion. not a valid point Phone Post 3.0

Its a valid point, if the rules are in place then its up to the ref to enforce them. If the rules condone grinding a guy out with superior grappling, then don't release a guy for being successful at it, expect the competition to up their game. That's how real sports operate.


The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you find Shields boring or not. He uses his skillset to be successful and in a real sports promotion that is enough. To use the basketball analogy you raised, you can't get rid of a Tim Duncan just because kids like the flash of D Rose. The whole point of the sport is to find out on any given night who's skillset will translate best.

I would have less of a problem with this if Dana stopped trying to pretend that they give a shit about the legitimacy of the sport, the title and the fighters and just admitted that now driving revenue and entertainment is more important than the legitimacy of the sport.

And I don't have a problem with that, its their business and they're entitled to make the additions and cuts as they see fit.

It's Dana's demeaning of the fighters and their abilities to justify his decisions that really pisses me off. Stop blaming the fighters and just admit you care more about profit than the sport, and at least then the fighters and fans know where they stand.

This, couldn't have put it any better, especially your last point.
4/8/14 9:38 PM
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HarryPalms
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danggook - 
HarryPalms -
danggook - 
Thacommish -
danggook - 
IGOTBELCHED - Lol how many guys in the ufc are going to be the guy then? Why not release them all and have fuck all fighters. Its times like this when you know MMA isn't a sport its a private business owned by ZUFFA, bush league.
most pro sports are private businesses. and most have built in rule to prevent stalling. shot clock in basketball and play clock in football. if there was a "do something" clock in mma fighters like Jake would get taken care of appropriately. Phone Post 3.0

and that its who is fault? Btw they do have built in rules to prevent stalling. Refs stand people up all the time.
the fault of the guy stalling. and standups are at refs discretion. not a valid point Phone Post 3.0

Its a valid point, if the rules are in place then its up to the ref to enforce them. If the rules condone grinding a guy out with superior grappling, then don't release a guy for being successful at it, expect the competition to up their game. That's how real sports operate.


The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you find Shields boring or not. He uses his skillset to be successful and in a real sports promotion that is enough. To use the basketball analogy you raised, you can't get rid of a Tim Duncan just because kids like the flash of D Rose. The whole point of the sport is to find out on any given night who's skillset will translate best.

I would have less of a problem with this if Dana stopped trying to pretend that they give a shit about the legitimacy of the sport, the title and the fighters and just admitted that now driving revenue and entertainment is more important than the legitimacy of the sport.

And I don't have a problem with that, its their business and they're entitled to make the additions and cuts as they see fit.

It's Dana's demeaning of the fighters and their abilities to justify his decisions that really pisses me off. Stop blaming the fighters and just admit you care more about profit than the sport, and at least then the fighters and fans know where they stand.
the basketball comparison would be valid only if there was no shot clock. imagine NBA without a shot clock and a player able to score 10 pts in a game and skillful enough to keep the ball away from everybody else.

would fans defend him and talk about the superior ball control? Phone Post 3.0

you answer your own question, thats exactly how basketball used to be.
they brought in shotclocks, the 3 second rule, the 3 point line, made zone defence illegal, eliminated hand checking all in the name of delivering a more exciting product. They didn't get rid of Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell or try and disparage their accomplishments because they dominated in a boring way. They adjusted the sport.

The rules are already in place and no fighter should be penalised for training his skillset to the pinnacle of the sport to win under those rules.
4/8/14 9:40 PM
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Osbot
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Did Jake get cut at the end of his contract, or was he still on contract?

If he was still under contract, I like how contracts with the UFC are a one way street.
4/8/14 10:25 PM
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danggook
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HarryPalms -
danggook - 
HarryPalms -
danggook - 
Thacommish -
danggook - 
IGOTBELCHED - Lol how many guys in the ufc are going to be the guy then? Why not release them all and have fuck all fighters. Its times like this when you know MMA isn't a sport its a private business owned by ZUFFA, bush league.
most pro sports are private businesses. and most have built in rule to prevent stalling. shot clock in basketball and play clock in football. if there was a "do something" clock in mma fighters like Jake would get taken care of appropriately. Phone Post 3.0

and that its who is fault? Btw they do have built in rules to prevent stalling. Refs stand people up all the time.
the fault of the guy stalling. and standups are at refs discretion. not a valid point Phone Post 3.0

Its a valid point, if the rules are in place then its up to the ref to enforce them. If the rules condone grinding a guy out with superior grappling, then don't release a guy for being successful at it, expect the competition to up their game. That's how real sports operate.


The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you find Shields boring or not. He uses his skillset to be successful and in a real sports promotion that is enough. To use the basketball analogy you raised, you can't get rid of a Tim Duncan just because kids like the flash of D Rose. The whole point of the sport is to find out on any given night who's skillset will translate best.

I would have less of a problem with this if Dana stopped trying to pretend that they give a shit about the legitimacy of the sport, the title and the fighters and just admitted that now driving revenue and entertainment is more important than the legitimacy of the sport.

And I don't have a problem with that, its their business and they're entitled to make the additions and cuts as they see fit.

It's Dana's demeaning of the fighters and their abilities to justify his decisions that really pisses me off. Stop blaming the fighters and just admit you care more about profit than the sport, and at least then the fighters and fans know where they stand.
the basketball comparison would be valid only if there was no shot clock. imagine NBA without a shot clock and a player able to score 10 pts in a game and skillful enough to keep the ball away from everybody else.

would fans defend him and talk about the superior ball control? Phone Post 3.0

you answer your own question, thats exactly how basketball used to be.
they brought in shotclocks, the 3 second rule, the 3 point line, made zone defence illegal, eliminated hand checking all in the name of delivering a more exciting product. They didn't get rid of Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell or try and disparage their accomplishments because they dominated in a boring way. They adjusted the sport.

The rules are already in place and no fighter should be penalised for training his skillset to the pinnacle of the sport to win under those rules.
the only problem with that is that ufc doesn't control the rules. NBA had their own internal control. if outside org was regulating the NBA and they had boring players that weren't selling tickets/getting ratings and the league was powerless to remedy it, you bet players would be getting cut. Phone Post 3.0
4/8/14 10:27 PM
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danggook
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one would have thought that the releasing of a mainstay like Fitch would be a clue to fighters on how such a style would be received. Tyrone and DHK both seem to have gotten the message, and the fight cards they are on benefit from it, which means we as fans benefit. Phone Post 3.0
4/8/14 11:50 PM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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Jake had 8 chances in the UFC to provide a wow moment, he was predictively boring and mediocre. You can be boring and elite, or you can be mediocre and exciting, but you can not be boring and mediocre, especially if you are old and you haven't showed any improvement over your previous 10 fights. Roster spots are limited and you can't be boring and mediocre and old. That is a strikeout
4/9/14 1:26 AM
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chalice
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dana makes a good point, where exactly is shields going to go in a division with "animals" like robbie lawler, carlos condit, martin kampmann, demian maia, and tyron woodley?

he is clearly just not able to compete with guys like that who make up the top of the WW division.
4/9/14 1:31 AM
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HandyDarsh
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chalice - dana makes a good point, where exactly is shields going to go in a division with "animals" like robbie lawler, carlos condit, martin kampmann, demian maia, and tyron woodley?

he is clearly just not able to compete with guys like that who make up the top of the WW division.
VTFU Phone Post 3.0
4/9/14 2:06 AM
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danggook
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chalice - dana makes a good point, where exactly is shields going to go in a division with "animals" like robbie lawler, carlos condit, martin kampmann, demian maia, and tyron woodley?

he is clearly just not able to compete with guys like that who make up the top of the WW division.
to the unemployment line Phone Post 3.0
4/9/14 2:32 AM
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rockyboy
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That's just DFW runnin' his mouth, we all knew the real reason he was realeased
4/9/14 3:02 AM
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HarryPalms
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danggook - 
HarryPalms -
danggook - 
HarryPalms -
danggook - 
Thacommish -
danggook - 
IGOTBELCHED - Lol how many guys in the ufc are going to be the guy then? Why not release them all and have fuck all fighters. Its times like this when you know MMA isn't a sport its a private business owned by ZUFFA, bush league.
most pro sports are private businesses. and most have built in rule to prevent stalling. shot clock in basketball and play clock in football. if there was a "do something" clock in mma fighters like Jake would get taken care of appropriately. Phone Post 3.0

and that its who is fault? Btw they do have built in rules to prevent stalling. Refs stand people up all the time.
the fault of the guy stalling. and standups are at refs discretion. not a valid point Phone Post 3.0

Its a valid point, if the rules are in place then its up to the ref to enforce them. If the rules condone grinding a guy out with superior grappling, then don't release a guy for being successful at it, expect the competition to up their game. That's how real sports operate.


The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you find Shields boring or not. He uses his skillset to be successful and in a real sports promotion that is enough. To use the basketball analogy you raised, you can't get rid of a Tim Duncan just because kids like the flash of D Rose. The whole point of the sport is to find out on any given night who's skillset will translate best.

I would have less of a problem with this if Dana stopped trying to pretend that they give a shit about the legitimacy of the sport, the title and the fighters and just admitted that now driving revenue and entertainment is more important than the legitimacy of the sport.

And I don't have a problem with that, its their business and they're entitled to make the additions and cuts as they see fit.

It's Dana's demeaning of the fighters and their abilities to justify his decisions that really pisses me off. Stop blaming the fighters and just admit you care more about profit than the sport, and at least then the fighters and fans know where they stand.
the basketball comparison would be valid only if there was no shot clock. imagine NBA without a shot clock and a player able to score 10 pts in a game and skillful enough to keep the ball away from everybody else.

would fans defend him and talk about the superior ball control? Phone Post 3.0

you answer your own question, thats exactly how basketball used to be.
they brought in shotclocks, the 3 second rule, the 3 point line, made zone defence illegal, eliminated hand checking all in the name of delivering a more exciting product. They didn't get rid of Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell or try and disparage their accomplishments because they dominated in a boring way. They adjusted the sport.

The rules are already in place and no fighter should be penalised for training his skillset to the pinnacle of the sport to win under those rules.
the only problem with that is that ufc doesn't control the rules. NBA had their own internal control. if outside org was regulating the NBA and they had boring players that weren't selling tickets/getting ratings and the league was powerless to remedy it, you bet players would be getting cut. Phone Post 3.0

Now you are just making it clear that you are shilling.
At least when you make valid points we can have a discussion.

Makes no mistake, the UFC pushed through its own 'unified rules' and would have no problem at all pushing through some changes to enforce more action.
Who is going to stop them? The NSAC? Some other commission in one state?

as for your basketball reference, again you show your lack of knowledge. The NBA players have a players association and there's no fucking way that any of them would be getting dropped over not being exciting enough, they have contract guarantees which is why if a team can't or doesn't want to pay the salary they need to trade player to someone who'll take it, or waive them and pay them out. There's none of this put them on the shelf or get rid of the bush league shit.

4/9/14 3:10 AM
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danggook
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HarryPalms -
danggook - 
HarryPalms -
danggook - 
HarryPalms -
danggook - 
Thacommish -
danggook - 
IGOTBELCHED - Lol how many guys in the ufc are going to be the guy then? Why not release them all and have fuck all fighters. Its times like this when you know MMA isn't a sport its a private business owned by ZUFFA, bush league.
most pro sports are private businesses. and most have built in rule to prevent stalling. shot clock in basketball and play clock in football. if there was a "do something" clock in mma fighters like Jake would get taken care of appropriately. Phone Post 3.0

and that its who is fault? Btw they do have built in rules to prevent stalling. Refs stand people up all the time.
the fault of the guy stalling. and standups are at refs discretion. not a valid point Phone Post 3.0

Its a valid point, if the rules are in place then its up to the ref to enforce them. If the rules condone grinding a guy out with superior grappling, then don't release a guy for being successful at it, expect the competition to up their game. That's how real sports operate.


The bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you find Shields boring or not. He uses his skillset to be successful and in a real sports promotion that is enough. To use the basketball analogy you raised, you can't get rid of a Tim Duncan just because kids like the flash of D Rose. The whole point of the sport is to find out on any given night who's skillset will translate best.

I would have less of a problem with this if Dana stopped trying to pretend that they give a shit about the legitimacy of the sport, the title and the fighters and just admitted that now driving revenue and entertainment is more important than the legitimacy of the sport.

And I don't have a problem with that, its their business and they're entitled to make the additions and cuts as they see fit.

It's Dana's demeaning of the fighters and their abilities to justify his decisions that really pisses me off. Stop blaming the fighters and just admit you care more about profit than the sport, and at least then the fighters and fans know where they stand.
the basketball comparison would be valid only if there was no shot clock. imagine NBA without a shot clock and a player able to score 10 pts in a game and skillful enough to keep the ball away from everybody else.

would fans defend him and talk about the superior ball control? Phone Post 3.0

you answer your own question, thats exactly how basketball used to be.
they brought in shotclocks, the 3 second rule, the 3 point line, made zone defence illegal, eliminated hand checking all in the name of delivering a more exciting product. They didn't get rid of Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell or try and disparage their accomplishments because they dominated in a boring way. They adjusted the sport.

The rules are already in place and no fighter should be penalised for training his skillset to the pinnacle of the sport to win under those rules.
the only problem with that is that ufc doesn't control the rules. NBA had their own internal control. if outside org was regulating the NBA and they had boring players that weren't selling tickets/getting ratings and the league was powerless to remedy it, you bet players would be getting cut. Phone Post 3.0

Now you are just making it clear that you are shilling.
At least when you make valid points we can have a discussion.

Makes no mistake, the UFC pushed through its own 'unified rules' and would have no problem at all pushing through some changes to enforce more action.
Who is going to stop them? The NSAC? Some other commission in one state?

as for your basketball reference, again you show your lack of knowledge. The NBA players have a players association and there's no fucking way that any of them would be getting dropped over not being exciting enough, they have contract guarantees which is why if a team can't or doesn't want to pay the salary they need to trade player to someone who'll take it, or waive them and pay them out. There's none of this put them on the shelf or get rid of the bush league shit.

you're right dude. paid poster. I get paid 5 bucks for every post and 20 on top of that every time someone quotes me. if I get called a shill, thats a cool 100. thanks bro, I needed that. Phone Post 3.0
4/9/14 7:41 AM
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HarryPalms
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Glad I could be of service. Now you can afford to buy those PPV's full of guys who lost in the TUF house, AND pay for Fightpass so you can watch the pre-lims full of nobodies you used to watch for free on the PPV you have already paid for!
4/9/14 8:33 AM
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BeauTown
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The main reason shields is out is because they pay him to much, no body ever sees jake shields in a card and says hell yeah let's see jake shields it just doesn't happen! He has impressive names on his record but his ufc wins were less than impressive he layed on top of someone not doing damage why would anyone want him fighting? I'm sure if he accepted less pay per fight he would still be in ufc ! Let him go to wsof and fight those blokes it will be better for everyone Phone Post 3.0
4/9/14 2:14 PM
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chalice
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BeauTown - The main reason shields is out is because they pay him to much, no body ever sees jake shields in a card and says hell yeah let's see jake shields it just doesn't happen! He has impressive names on his record but his ufc wins were less than impressive he layed on top of someone not doing damage why would anyone want him fighting? I'm sure if he accepted less pay per fight he would still be in ufc ! Let him go to wsof and fight those blokes it will be better for everyone Phone Post 3.0

no, they never paid him too much, he was making what a high level professional athlete in the premiere mma organization of the entire world should be making.

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