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UnderGround Forums >> Rousey: Cyborg not a woman, an 'it'


4/18/14 5:27 PM
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JimmersonzGlove
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"If she comes in the UFC and I beat the [expletive] out of her and then I retire and become an action movie star, then the UFC is still going to be stuck with her. The division could die. She could ruin the whole sport."

 

LOL!!!

4/18/14 5:28 PM
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dubate
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zackthewop -
RowdyBec -
gambatte - Always been a fan of rouseys judo and mental game. But this is just wrong. 1) It's the transgender equivalent of calling a gay person a faggot. 2) she is so obviously scared it's pathetic. Lets be real, in women's MMA there is 1 good striker, cyborg. The rest of them throw pitter patter bullshit, and even tate's weak punches had rousey thinking twice.
There is more than ONE division in womens mma & definatly some great strikers like Joanne Calderwood, Miriam Nakamoto, Holy Holmes, Michele Waterson, Tecia Torres
... just saying :) Phone Post 3.0
True

115 is much more solid than 135 overall Phone Post 3.0
Yes. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:28 PM
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lildragonof
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No Ronda no please don't go the Tito way. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:29 PM
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RowdyBec
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zackthewop -
RowdyBec -
gambatte - Always been a fan of rouseys judo and mental game. But this is just wrong. 1) It's the transgender equivalent of calling a gay person a faggot. 2) she is so obviously scared it's pathetic. Lets be real, in women's MMA there is 1 good striker, cyborg. The rest of them throw pitter patter bullshit, and even tate's weak punches had rousey thinking twice.
There is more than ONE division in womens mma & definatly some great strikers like Joanne Calderwood, Miriam Nakamoto, Holy Holmes, Michele Waterson, Tecia Torres
... just saying :) Phone Post 3.0
True

115 is much more solid than 135 overall Phone Post 3.0
Just bugs me when people refer to womens mma being the135ers ONLY. Strawweights will be changing these narrow minded people very soon though :) Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:30 PM
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MattyECB
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Edited: 04/18/14 5:31 PM
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Nada MT - If a male fighter, or any fighter for that matter, said such a derogatory statement they would be fined.
I doubt Dana's lapdog will have to pony up a nickle.
Shameful.

Extra points though for making me snort laugh at the "action movie star" statement. Phone Post 3.0

 

Dude jones had already called one dude a dick licking shit head or something lol And after the fag comments Dana wants us to believe he was Hacked or Phone Robbed or one of his 11 friends chose to use his password to go on twitter, defend him against one random swedish guy, put up a selfie, then bail LOL Oh ya, and after the three minutes of fuckery, didn't bother doing anything fun or continuing the shit show or posting some crazy sexts or pictures lol....

 

Sooooo ya, there isn't much consistency in the UFC's policy, but it's not really fair to give them shit for it. At the end of the day they're a business and the only time they'll ever "care" about sexism, or homophobia or racism or wtv the fuck, is if it hurts the bottom line. 

 

That means if a guy isn't untouchable (like Jones) or "fighter tenured" (like a Bonnar) he's pretty shit out of luck if he says some dumb shit and the media picks up on it -- that last point also being key, as we've seen shit like Lesnar saying homos are wrong and fucked or Nog saying he refuses to train gays, but no one really noticed so it was all water under the bridge. 

 

Personally, I couldn't disagree more with statements like that, but I also don't really give a fuck what my favorite athletes think lol Sure, if I really love a fighter's personality like Enson, Wandy, KZ or GSP it'll only help and drive me to support them above and beyond buying their cards, but I don't see the point in trying to mix politics and personal beliefs with combat sports. 

 

Edit: Just adding I'm obviously paraphrasing each incriminating comment lol Doing this by memory

4/18/14 5:32 PM
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theDude81
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LOL at "an example of what real respect and honor is in the cage,". What does Ronda know about respect and honor? She couldn't even shake Meisha's hand after their fight.
4/18/14 5:34 PM
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lildragonof
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RowdyBec -
zackthewop -
RowdyBec -
gambatte - Always been a fan of rouseys judo and mental game. But this is just wrong. 1) It's the transgender equivalent of calling a gay person a faggot. 2) she is so obviously scared it's pathetic. Lets be real, in women's MMA there is 1 good striker, cyborg. The rest of them throw pitter patter bullshit, and even tate's weak punches had rousey thinking twice.
There is more than ONE division in womens mma & definatly some great strikers like Joanne Calderwood, Miriam Nakamoto, Holy Holmes, Michele Waterson, Tecia Torres
... just saying :) Phone Post 3.0
True

115 is much more solid than 135 overall Phone Post 3.0
Just bugs me when people refer to womens mma being the135ers ONLY. Strawweights will be changing these narrow minded people very soon though :) Phone Post 3.0
Did the show start filming yet Bec? Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:36 PM
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jTheHybridwolff
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Ronda is so scared it's not even funny it's
Sad she waste her breath trying to convince ppl Gina is a more worthy of a fight with her instead of the women who won the fight she's just looking for a Ez pay day and would love to make some coin off a former Mma fighter turn'd Actress after a brutal ass whipping Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:37 PM
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Rob San Soo
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Out Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:37 PM
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dubate
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MattyECB -
donniejessup - 
dubate - 
ShaneMillerBJJ - I know these examples aren't really the same but I think they're close enough to compare. Matt Mitrione gets shit about talking about Fallon Fox being a man and fighting women, which he could have picked his words better. Now Rousey calls Cyborg an "it" as an insult. Wanna bet she's not gonna hear anything from Zuffa? Phone Post 3.0
One is a federally protected class of citizen. The other is just a woman who's taken so many steroids that it's tough to make the argument that she is still "feminine". If you look at her old pictures while she may not have been beautiful (I'm no Don Johnson myself) she was definitely feminine. Phone Post 3.0

Exactly.

I agree, but I have to admit there is a pretty unfair double standard between men and women for PED use. I get the whole becoming a man thing and it's freakier since heavy T abuse is already one step on the way to Fallon Foxing yourself and it starts the development of male secondary sexual characteristics, but if we're being fair, I'm not aware of any evidence that female PED abuse has a larger effect than male PED abuse.

 

At the core of the issue, PED abuse is wrong because it gives one party a drastic edge in a combat sport which directly translates to more damage, more concussions...etc It's like when a fucker in boxing cuts out padding and destroys their opponent's face and eyes (See HBO's Assault in the Ring for a great example lol), but unless female PED use gives them much larger gains than male PED use, I don't think it's so fair how someone who's been popped once get's such direct and fucked up shit from everyone. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, we've all made our horse meat jokes, but compare how much shit Barnett, who's popped like 3 or 4 times, gets Vs. Cyborg who's popped once. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve the shit or that she's pretty disgraceful, I'm just saying it's interesting you don't see male PED-abusers get casted as sub-human piece of shit freak shows...  Certainly not by fucking Dana, who was pretty out of line calling her a man imo

 

Not trying to be that guy, you know the sex-baiting, bleeding heart liberal who whines how unfair everything is, but it's certainly a trend I noticed with Cyborg and in the very least, it's interesting to think about

Well I think the issue is that when men take steroids they end up looking more masculine; a hyper version of the male species. When a woman takes them, it doesn't enhance her "womanliness", it makes her look more male and therefore like a genetic freak (and not in the good way). If when a woman took steroids she got stronger but ended up looking prettier/more feminine, I don't think that you would be seeing the backlash that you are seeing now. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:37 PM
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Chromium
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Edited: 04/18/14 5:37 PM
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lildragonof - Did the show start filming yet Bec? Phone Post 3.0

 

It don't start filming until around the end of May. They aren't even doing tryouts to fill the remaining 6 spots until April 28th.

RowdyBec -
Just bugs me when people refer to womens mma being the135ers ONLY. Strawweights will be changing these narrow minded people very soon though :) Phone Post 3.0

True dat :)

 

4/18/14 5:40 PM
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mongo54
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MattyECB - 
donniejessup - 
dubate - 
ShaneMillerBJJ - I know these examples aren't really the same but I think they're close enough to compare. Matt Mitrione gets shit about talking about Fallon Fox being a man and fighting women, which he could have picked his words better. Now Rousey calls Cyborg an "it" as an insult. Wanna bet she's not gonna hear anything from Zuffa? Phone Post 3.0
One is a federally protected class of citizen. The other is just a woman who's taken so many steroids that it's tough to make the argument that she is still "feminine". If you look at her old pictures while she may not have been beautiful (I'm no Don Johnson myself) she was definitely feminine. Phone Post 3.0

Exactly.

I agree, but I have to admit there is a pretty unfair double standard between men and women for PED use. I get the whole becoming a man thing and it's freakier since heavy T abuse is already one step on the way to Fallon Foxing yourself and it starts the development of male secondary sexual characteristics, but if we're being fair, I'm not aware of any evidence that female PED abuse has a larger effect than male PED abuse.

 

At the core of the issue, PED abuse is wrong because it gives one party a drastic edge in a combat sport which directly translates to more damage, more concussions...etc It's like when a fucker in boxing cuts out padding and destroys their opponent's face and eyes (See HBO's Assault in the Ring for a great example lol), but unless female PED use gives them much larger gains than male PED use, I don't think it's so fair how someone who's been popped once get's such direct and fucked up shit from everyone. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, we've all made our horse meat jokes, but compare how much shit Barnett, who's popped like 3 or 4 times, gets Vs. Cyborg who's popped once. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve the shit or that she's pretty disgraceful, I'm just saying it's interesting you don't see male PED-abusers get casted as sub-human piece of shit freak shows...  Certainly not by fucking Dana, who was pretty out of line calling her a man imo

 

Not trying to be that guy, you know the sex-baiting, bleeding heart liberal who whines how unfair everything is, but it's certainly a trend I noticed with Cyborg and in the very least, it's interesting to think about


Cyborg is a "woman" who said in an interview that she walks at 170 with 7% body fat......... Barnet was a fat kid still blubbery after using, I think the physical camparison to the norm is why guyborg gets so much heat.  In the same article it said she is at 3% body fat at 145......

 

These numbers are not anywhere near normal for clean female......

4/18/14 5:40 PM
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MattyECB
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RowdyBec - 
zackthewop -
RowdyBec -
gambatte - Always been a fan of rouseys judo and mental game. But this is just wrong. 1) It's the transgender equivalent of calling a gay person a faggot. 2) she is so obviously scared it's pathetic. Lets be real, in women's MMA there is 1 good striker, cyborg. The rest of them throw pitter patter bullshit, and even tate's weak punches had rousey thinking twice.
There is more than ONE division in womens mma & definatly some great strikers like Joanne Calderwood, Miriam Nakamoto, Holy Holmes, Michele Waterson, Tecia Torres
... just saying :) Phone Post 3.0
True

115 is much more solid than 135 overall Phone Post 3.0
Just bugs me when people refer to womens mma being the135ers ONLY. Strawweights will be changing these narrow minded people very soon though :) Phone Post 3.0

It makes sense though.

Most people, myself included, are WMMA bandwagoners who joined the party as the UFC started adopting it. I think I saw one Invicta card before the UFC started showing WMMA and while I enjoyed it and had nothing against it, I just didn't go through all the extra effort to follow a scene cut off from my main orgs Bell/UFC/One/Dream...etc (I guess Elite XC had some fights too)

 

There's obviously a talent disparity and WMMA is relatively nascent in terms of getting the big show treatment and providing real monetary incentive to new prospects, but since most ppl aren't true WMMA fans, it's a lot easier to just assume wtv isn't in the UFC right now is shit, and to pretend you're actually knowledgeable about each female division's top 10 and prospects lol

I mean, I'm thinking most ppl don't even realize there's a division between straw and bantam lol

 

I'm sure your divison'll get the respect it deserves soon. And I'd definitely agree there's more interesting matchups at 115 than 135... I mean fuck, Carano's out of shape ass might be getting the next title fight now...Wtf? I wanna see Cat Zingano punish Rousey for eating her strawburries like she did Tate, that'd be the next best thing to a Cyborg match methinks

4/18/14 5:43 PM
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Sukulaku
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Edited: 04/18/14 5:48 PM
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In before "She's a bad ass bitch".

It just feels like everyone around her, Dana, fans and the press have nuthugging her her whole career that she feels like she can say anything and think she's being funny.
4/18/14 5:52 PM
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bigconk74fe
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She won't get any shit for saying this, but Matt Brown states his opinion on a MAN who take estrogen to fight women and he gets tons of shit. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 5:53 PM
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MattyECB
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mongo54 - 
MattyECB - 
donniejessup - 
dubate - 
ShaneMillerBJJ - I know these examples aren't really the same but I think they're close enough to compare. Matt Mitrione gets shit about talking about Fallon Fox being a man and fighting women, which he could have picked his words better. Now Rousey calls Cyborg an "it" as an insult. Wanna bet she's not gonna hear anything from Zuffa? Phone Post 3.0
One is a federally protected class of citizen. The other is just a woman who's taken so many steroids that it's tough to make the argument that she is still "feminine". If you look at her old pictures while she may not have been beautiful (I'm no Don Johnson myself) she was definitely feminine. Phone Post 3.0

Exactly.

I agree, but I have to admit there is a pretty unfair double standard between men and women for PED use. I get the whole becoming a man thing and it's freakier since heavy T abuse is already one step on the way to Fallon Foxing yourself and it starts the development of male secondary sexual characteristics, but if we're being fair, I'm not aware of any evidence that female PED abuse has a larger effect than male PED abuse.

 

At the core of the issue, PED abuse is wrong because it gives one party a drastic edge in a combat sport which directly translates to more damage, more concussions...etc It's like when a fucker in boxing cuts out padding and destroys their opponent's face and eyes (See HBO's Assault in the Ring for a great example lol), but unless female PED use gives them much larger gains than male PED use, I don't think it's so fair how someone who's been popped once get's such direct and fucked up shit from everyone. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, we've all made our horse meat jokes, but compare how much shit Barnett, who's popped like 3 or 4 times, gets Vs. Cyborg who's popped once. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve the shit or that she's pretty disgraceful, I'm just saying it's interesting you don't see male PED-abusers get casted as sub-human piece of shit freak shows...  Certainly not by fucking Dana, who was pretty out of line calling her a man imo

 

Not trying to be that guy, you know the sex-baiting, bleeding heart liberal who whines how unfair everything is, but it's certainly a trend I noticed with Cyborg and in the very least, it's interesting to think about


Cyborg is a "woman" who said in an interview that she walks at 170 with 7% body fat......... Barnet was a fat kid still blubbery after using, I think the physical camparison to the norm is why guyborg gets so much heat.  In the same article it said she is at 3% body fat at 145......

 

These numbers are not anywhere near normal for clean female......

 

Dude, Royce had like 24X the amount of testosterone any human male should be able to manage and no one gave a fuck until he started acting like a butthurt baby to Eddie Bravo. If we're talking numbers, I think there've been enough egregious cases in male MMA that she isn't that unique or disturbing a case.

 

 

And until he popped, I'm amazed how many staunch defenders Overeem had lol I mean I really did, and still do, love the guy, but he looked like a fucking Dragon Ball Z character and credited it to horse meat. I was a fan, but at least I wasn't delusional lol

 

I think you're definitely on to something that the greater the change in a person's appearance the greater the shit they'll get, and maybe this is why women will always bear the worse brunt when abusing PEDs -- since they don't only enhance their performane and alter their appearance, but alter it to the opposite sex. 

4/18/14 5:55 PM
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MattyECB
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^^^^But two things to remind you of mongo...

1) Decathlon(ists?), sprinters and a fair amount of other female athletic fields do in fact have athletes with body fat percentage around 3-10 -- And this is also including Olympians who undergo stringent testing, so abnormal?

Yes.

Freakish and unheard of?

No.

(In fact there'd be evidence that this is even possible without steroids, although again, I'd like to reiterate I'm not some delusional nutjob lol I've seen the changes in Cyborg and know she uses, I'm just trying to point out their may be less of a difference than we lead ourselves to believe between her and the myriad of other male offenders)

 

2) Barnett didn't just bust multiple times lol He also managed to take down Affliction (obvs they were gonna fail no matter what, but damn if he didn't bring that glass house crashing down fast), and remained completely unapologetic and fuck-you-ey to everyone lol I remember reading a great interview where he was saying how the UFC should be doing his laundry and Dana was his bitch, right after getting popped lol And I'm pretty sure he always blamed supplements each and every time, making me feel like Bill fucking Murray in GroundHog day. 

 

Now in regards to Barnett, I also completely ignored his abuse and remained a huge fan since HW was so thin and I love his steez, but with how Godamn desperately the fans are clamoring to see Rousey challenged, I would've expected some of this same cognitive dissonance to help give Cyborg a break.

As is... I've only really seen constant FrankenDick comments, even by the same guys who'll bash Rousey for ducking Cyborg lol

4/18/14 5:59 PM
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bigconk74fe
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Sorry it was mitrione who said the above, Matt Brown just said wmma is boring and they should fight naked, either way both got shit for their comments and Rousey won't get anything. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 6:01 PM
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BLACK ROOSTER
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tired of ronda. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 6:01 PM
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MattyECB
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One disturbing thing to point out against Cyborg, to stop defending her for a moment, is that even if she stopped using, which I doubt, there've been a rather large series of studies done recently showing PED use, I think anabolics in specific, carry benefits up to a decade later after stopping completely. 

 

I could look up the articles if anyone was interested, but off the top of my head, I think the gist of it was prolonged use starts to make permanent changes to bone density, muscle mass...etc And even if you've dramatically dropped your T level after discontinuing, some of these changes persist -- which also brings to light why it's so fucked up for someone like Belfort to use anabolics his whole life, probably keep many of the changes, then also counter the natural drop in endogenous T from his prior abuse via TRT

4/18/14 6:02 PM
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lildragonof
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Chromium -
lildragonof - Did the show start filming yet Bec? Phone Post 3.0

 

It don't start filming until around the end of May. They aren't even doing tryouts to fill the remaining 6 spots until April 28th.

RowdyBec -
Just bugs me when people refer to womens mma being the135ers ONLY. Strawweights will be changing these narrow minded people very soon though :) Phone Post 3.0

True dat :)

 

Thanks dude. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 6:02 PM
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Huey freman
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She's fucking right.

A woman who takes the MALE sex hormone is no longer a woman.

Any idiots want the female divisions to have the same freak factor as female bodybuilding then bring in cyborg, why not have a mini tournament with Fallon fox an gabi Garcia all in the same cage, may as well because it couldn't be any more ridiculous.

As an added bonus you would attract the trench coat crowd masturbating in the front row. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 6:03 PM
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dakotajudo
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MattyECB - 
donniejessup - 
dubate - 
ShaneMillerBJJ - I know these examples aren't really the same but I think they're close enough to compare. Matt Mitrione gets shit about talking about Fallon Fox being a man and fighting women, which he could have picked his words better. Now Rousey calls Cyborg an "it" as an insult. Wanna bet she's not gonna hear anything from Zuffa? Phone Post 3.0
One is a federally protected class of citizen. The other is just a woman who's taken so many steroids that it's tough to make the argument that she is still "feminine". If you look at her old pictures while she may not have been beautiful (I'm no Don Johnson myself) she was definitely feminine. Phone Post 3.0

Exactly.

I agree, but I have to admit there is a pretty unfair double standard between men and women for PED use. I get the whole becoming a man thing and it's freakier since heavy T abuse is already one step on the way to Fallon Foxing yourself and it starts the development of male secondary sexual characteristics, but if we're being fair, I'm not aware of any evidence that female PED abuse has a larger effect than male PED abuse.

 

At the core of the issue, PED abuse is wrong because it gives one party a drastic edge in a combat sport which directly translates to more damage, more concussions...etc It's like when a fucker in boxing cuts out padding and destroys their opponent's face and eyes (See HBO's Assault in the Ring for a great example lol), but unless female PED use gives them much larger gains than male PED use, I don't think it's so fair how someone who's been popped once get's such direct and fucked up shit from everyone. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, we've all made our horse meat jokes, but compare how much shit Barnett, who's popped like 3 or 4 times, gets Vs. Cyborg who's popped once. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve the shit or that she's pretty disgraceful, I'm just saying it's interesting you don't see male PED-abusers get casted as sub-human piece of shit freak shows...  Certainly not by fucking Dana, who was pretty out of line calling her a man imo

 

Not trying to be that guy, you know the sex-baiting, bleeding heart liberal who whines how unfair everything is, but it's certainly a trend I noticed with Cyborg and in the very least, it's interesting to think about


See http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2007&issue=03000&article=00017 for an interesting perspective.

In brief, there is a gender gap - a difference in performance - between men and women in sprint events, running, skating and swimming. This gap narrowed in the late 80s or so, then started to widen. This coincides with:
a) increase in doping in the late 70s and 80s,
b) improved testing for doping in the 90s.

That the gap narrows then widens, instead of remaining constant, suggests that women athletes did indeed have a relatively greater response to doping.

In track, it's pretty much accepted that the sprint records of the 80s and 90s will not be broken any time soon, because of that relative difference.

A few other interesting articles
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2014/01/the-world-record-suspicion-survey-and-some-related-thoughts/ (this is my favorite blog for sports science)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2009/aug/16/world-athletics-championships-records
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2011/08/unbreakable.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/sports/olympics/suspicion-lurks-behind-each-new-track-record-at-the-olympics.html

But for this to be relevant, we should consider if Cyborg was able to obtain PED as systematically as, say, the East German program or whether she's been subject to the systematic screening of the modern era.
4/18/14 6:07 PM
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Figure4LegLock
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My goodness this Ronda Rousey. So cowardly and so full of herself. Oh no...if Ronda beats up Cyborg and she retires and becomes an action star the whole sport could die! THE HORROR! Hey Ronda...if u beat her as bad as you think you could Dana could simply release her. Just ask Fitch, Okami or Shields. With Zuffa contracts only one side has to live up to their end of the bargain and it's not the suits.
4/18/14 6:08 PM
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Nada MT
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Dreville79 - So hang on.. Mitrione calls Fallon Fox a him and gets suspended. Difference here is? I think Ronda would comfortably beat Cyborg, and I can't stand Cyborg, but she shouldn't get away with saying that Phone Post 3.0
I would be surprised if she even had to apologize.

She should be fined and suspended. Phone Post 3.0

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