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4/23/14 2:29 AM
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Shogun of Harlem
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1. Cliven Bundy is a fucking idiot

2. The government are fucking idiots

3. I am for the government doing this if they also shot the OWS people.
4/23/14 3:19 AM
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Shogun of Harlem
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donniejessup - 
6ULDV8 - 

Big government is the best.  Everyone should definitely be their cheerleaders.

 

It's the right thing to do.


This is a variation of the straw man argument called the "straw fag".

VTFU that was funny
4/23/14 3:28 AM
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mrblonde1281
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So if someone owes money, it's ok to come in and just start killing living things......instead of oh I don't know....putting liens on assets..... Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 8:02 AM
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BanjaCop
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mrblonde1281 - So if someone owes money, it's ok to come in and just start killing living things......instead of oh I don't know....putting liens on assets..... Phone Post 3.0
It is legal to seize assets and do whatever you want to those said assets, yes. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 8:15 AM
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6ULDV8
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Again, I watched it live as it happened through ustream streams.  It was real people on the ground as it was happening and I watched it happen live.

 

Whatever.  If you guys are happy with what's happening with your country I'm happy for you for being so happy with it.

 

Enjoy your continued success America.  You're going nowhere but up on the world stage.  Have fun.

4/23/14 8:41 AM
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jettdogg
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Thage - Wow, conspiritards are getting owned here.

Go back to 9/11 truthing and moon landing garbage.

Hard to believe the stupidity in this thread
4/23/14 9:12 AM
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6ULDV8
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This is from Stormcloudsgathering on Youtube. 

 

He took his old video down because he found he'd made an error.  Dude is very legit imho.

4/23/14 9:25 AM
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6ULDV8
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http://scgnews.com/bundy-ranch-what-youre-not-being-told

 

Was Harry Reid involved in the Bundy Ranch Debacle? Sorting through the Rumors & Disinformation

14.Apr.2014 | SCGSCG
 
The purpose of this video is to sort through the tangled web of information and rumors circulating regarding the questions of corruption and Harry Reid's involvement in the Bundy Ranch showdown. We will also address a error in our previous video on the topic "Bundy Ranch - What You're Not Being Told".

The purpose of this video is to sort through the tangled web of information and rumors circulating regarding the questions of corruption and Harry Reid's involvement in the Bundy Ranch showdown. We will also address an error in our previous video on the topic.

 

Alright so there was this article that claimed that the siege of the Bundy ranch was about was really about fracking leases. It referred to this article on shalereporter.com which actually referred to land sold in Eastern Nevada, and Clark county isn't in Eastern Nevada, so that's clearly not the same land. At this point the author has to be aware of this mistake. Leaving it up like this without correcting the mistake is really bad. I'm still having people send me this.

We had some unsubstantiated rumors claiming that "There are developers working for military contractors that want that land and water for mining weapons grade minerals for industry... they want to sell the land by the highway for real estate development because it's close to I-15". Again this claim isn't even coherent. Military contractors like blackwater don't buy land for mining.

Now for the troublesome story. That the showdown in Nevada was really about an underhanded business deal involving Senator Harry Reid, his son, the BLM and a 5 billion dollar solar energy plant.

The first source we referred to was Reuters August 21, 2012, which does indeed go into the details of a shady business deal involving ENN energy that Harry worked to push through. This is a reputable source, and it tells us a lot about how Senator Reid operates. Just one problem: the project fell through in 2013. ENN isn't in the game anymore.

However there still several issues here that remain. We have the web page that was taken down from the BLM website and which someone quickly deleted from google's cache. This webpage mentions that the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone's mitigation strategy as one of the justifications for seizing Cliven Bundy's cattle. You also have the fact that the current head of the BLM, Neil Kornze, is Harry Reid's former adviser and as the Senate majority leader directly participated in his confirmation, and to make things even more interesting we have the fact that it was revealed this past week that the FBI had been attempting to investigate Harry Reid on unrelated corruption charges, but they were blocked by the Department of Justice.

4/23/14 9:26 AM
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6ULDV8
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We also know from this article from the LA Times that Harry Reid has a long history of finding creative ways to funnel money towards family members, and we have the well documented case of his attempt to push the ENN project through for his son Rory Reid via Reuters. So the question isn't really whether Harry Reid is corrupt, the question is whether he had a hand in the Bundy ranch debacle.

But that's where the story starts to get murky.

Now there are some people who have formulated an alternative explanation tying Reid to the BLM's move against the Bundys.
That the standoff is about solar-industry crony capitalism, but just not ENN.

That narrative revolves around a company called First Solar. First Solar is running quite a few solar projects in Nevada, one which is planned for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone. The company apparently has been heavily subsidized by the Department of Energy, there was a scandal when a CEO from First Solar sold off 450 million in the company's stock even though the company was floundering miserably (Reuters claimed a lower number than Rep. Mike Kelly), and one of it's top executives James Hughes (aka Jim Hughes) just happens to be one of the unindicted conspirators in the Enron case. First Solar seems to be a questionable company, but how all this is supposed to connect to the Bundy case is very, very blurry.

Now on March 6th, the environmental advocacy group Defenders of Wildlife filed a lawsuit suit against Neil Kornze, head of the Bureau of Land Management for his role in pushing through two massive solar projects that they say is going to devastate the tortoise habitat. According to an assessment released by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in 2013, the two projects, which are owned by First Solar, are expected to displace, injure, or kill up to 2,115 federally Threatened desert tortoises. So while the BLM is attempting to claim environmental concerns to push the Bundy's off the land they've fast tracked projects that literally raze the desert completely destroying all wildlife.

4/23/14 9:26 AM
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6ULDV8
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That information is interesting, but it doesn't prove that Kornze made the decision due to a conflict of interest, and it doesn't prove that Harry Reid was involved.

If we had strong evidence connecting Harry Reid to First Solar then we might have a case, but no one has posted any hard evidence tying Reid to First Solar financially as far as I know. There are some who have pointed to a small campaign donation that one of the executives of First Solar made to Reid some years back, but that claim wasn't very well sourced, and even if it was it would be very hard to make the case that this would be enough to drive Reid to pit the BLM on the Bundys years later. Others have posted this article showing Reid in a ground breaking ceremony for the Moapa Paiute Solar project, but that doesn't mean anything. Participating in a ground breaking ceremony for a project like that is normal for a Senator.

It may very well be that if we could look at Reid's financial statements, investments and the investments of his family members we might find something. Unfortunately the public no longer has access to that information online. We don't have access to that information because of a law which Harry Reid himself introduced. The bill (S.716), which was passed on April 15, 2013 modified the STOCK Act repealing the requirement for the congress and executive branch employees to post their financial disclosures online where they could be read by the public. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s716

It may be a total coincidence, but it's interesting to note that Harry Reid passed this law after the scandal regarding his son's stake in the ENN project, and right before the ENN officially backed out.

 

I'm sure we would have learned all sorts of interesting things if the FBI corruption probe into Harry Reid's dealings hadn't been blocked by the Department of Justice. It's important to be clear here though that it may be that if they investigate him it is possible that they would turn up all sorts of dirty laundry, but nothing that relates to this situation. We can't know that, and we shouldn't make assumptions.

So was Harry Reid the man behind the Bundy ranch crackdown? I don't know, and I'm not going to pretend that I know unless I see solid evidence one way or another. If you have evidence you're welcome to send it to us on our facebook page or on twitter, and we'll look at it.

Now some people were angry with me for taking down the last video. Some claimed I was cowering to these guys or that I was being threatened by someone, or intimidated. Listen, I know that makes better television, and it's less humbling than having to admit a mistake but it's just not true. No one sent me any threats on this particular issue and even if they had I don't bow to those kinds of tactics. I do however bow to reality. No one ever wins a fight against reality. You might think you win, but you actually just become delusional. So if someone shows me evidence that destroys one my arguments, then I must change my stance. Period. I don't view that as optional, especially if you're dealing with information that's being spread to the public. Because if you don't correct yourself, there's a lot of people that are going to assume that the false information is correct.

That's what the mainstream media does. They get things dead wrong all the time and rarely corrects themselves. In fact more often than not they build on their faulty information and keep referring back to it as fact.

A good example is sarin gas attacks in Syria. We have the U.N. investigator Carla Del Ponte who went public saying that the evidence they found indicated that it was the rebels behind the attacks and that there was no evidence whatsoever that the Syrian government was involved and yet you'll still see Western politicians and the mainstream media referring to that attack as a justification for measures against Assad.

Unfortunately the alternative media has a really bad habit of doing the same thing. For example this article which originally went viral covering the Reid connection hasn't been taken down or corrected even though the authors are fully aware that the ENN project has been shelved. We know that they are aware of that fact due to another article they posted mentioning this fact. The article claiming that this was all about fracking leases is still up as well, and hasn't been updated.

People are still linking to these articles as evidence, people are still sending this stuff to their friends. That's really bad.

If we get something wrong we have to take it down otherwise we're spreading disinformation, and we can't just take it down and pretend like nothing happened, because if you do there are going to be people that didn't notice that you took and down and are going to continue spreading the wrong information.

We can't compete with the big corporations in terms of budget and equipment, all we he have going for us is our commitment to telling the truth. If we lose that we have nothing.

Note: I wish I could have gotten this correction up sooner, but my daughter had a stomach bug and that disrupted our schedule significantly last week.

4/23/14 10:30 AM
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Tidbits
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BREAKING NEWS: Property & Genealogical records show Cliven Bundy is either confused about his family's history or is a liar.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/22/property-records-cast-doubt-on-cliven-bundys-ancestral-claims-to-disputed-federal-land/

Cliven Bundy likes to claim his family has been grazing cattle for more than 130 years on Nevada lands owned by the federal government.

“I’ve lived my lifetime here,” the rancher said. “My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements.”

But Clark County property records show Bundy’s parents bought the 160-acre ranch where he still lives in 1948, two years after he was born in Bundyville, Ariz. — the same year the Bureau of Land Management was created through executive order by President Harry Truman.


Water rights were also transferred to the ranch itself, but not the federally managed land surrounding it, and court records show the Bundy family began grazing cattle on that land in 1954, when Cliven was 8 years old.

U.S. District Judge Johnnie Rawlinson noted that date in his 1998 ruling, which held that Bundy would not be permitted to continue using the federal land because he had failed to pay required fees to the BLM.

“My rights are before the BLM even existed, but my rights are created by beneficial use,” Bundy argued. “Beneficial use means we created the forage and the water from the time the very first pioneers come here.”

KLAS-TV examined genealogy and property records against Bundy’s claims to land owned by the federal government since before Nevada became a state, in 1864.

The station reported census records show Bundy’s maternal grandmother, Christena Jensen, was born in Nevada in 1901, and records suggest she later helped settle Bunkerville, where her grandson lives.

No Bundys lived in Bunkerville according to 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census records, but the rancher’s maternal grandparents, John and Christena Jensen, homesteaded a few miles away, in Mesquite, where his mother was born in 1924.

Both of Bundy’s maternal great-grandparents were originally from Utah, and his paternal great-grandfather came to Arizona from Illinois. His paternal grandfather was born in Nebraska and lived in Arizona.

Bundy claims ancestral livestock water rights through his mother’s side of the family.

Federal grazing districts were established by Congress with the passage of the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, and the Las Vegas-area grazing district — which surrounds both Bunkerville and Mesquite — was established two years later.

Some of the militia members who have traveled to southern Nevada to offer armed support to the rancher have compared Bundy’s treatment by the federal government to the plight of Native Americans.

“They are literally treating western United States citizens, ranchers, rural folks like this are the modern-day Indians,” said Justin Giles, an Oathkeeper from Alaska. “We’re being driven off of our lands. We’re being forced into reservations known as cities.”

The Paiute Indians of Nevada were forced into reservations by federal troops in 1875 – two years after the tribe had been promised the same land where Cliven Bundy now grows melons and grazes cattle.

4/23/14 10:33 AM
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Tidbits
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UGCTT_Fillthy - 
beerbelly - 
droplogic - "Don't disobey the government and you won't have a problem" - OG liberals Phone Post 3.0
Last I checked, it wasn't conservatives that disobeyed the government during the civil rights movement or Vietnam war. Just saying. Phone Post 3.0

Ummmm...you do realize it was the Republicans that pushed the Civil Rights Act over the objections of the Democrats...right?

Republicans of the 60's would be "filthy liberals" by today's standards. Also the "Dixicrats" are who make up the Republicans of today.
4/23/14 10:51 AM
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Thage
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6ULDV8 - 

Again, I watched it live as it happened through ustream streams.  It was real people on the ground as it was happening and I watched it happen live.

 

Whatever.  If you guys are happy with what's happening with your country I'm happy for you for being so happy with it.

 

Enjoy your continued success America.  You're going nowhere but up on the world stage.  Have fun.


So it simply adds to the vast left wing conspiracy that there is no documented proof? The people who were streaming it don't also record it?
4/23/14 12:23 PM
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TrappeBier
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Bundyfest in the no rules zone!



http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/219297/bundyfest-burning-man-guy-to-hold-month-long-music-fest-across-from-cliven-bundys-ranch/




Come celebrate TOTAL FREEDOM at BUNDYFEST, just across the road from the Cliven Bundy Ranch, in Bunkerville, Nevada! 240 bands, 24 hours a day, for a SOLID ROCKIN' MONTH!!!!



*NO PERMITS REQUIRED
*CAMP ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE
*FULL NUDITY NOT A PROBLEM
*GAY-FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE
*PENIS ERECTION CONTEST: Erect the largest penis in the open desert, win valuable prize! (tbd)



BACKGROUND: For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada. But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!



Why should Burning Man end on September 1st? Swing down to Vegas for a few days for some R&R, a few good buffets, and then HEAD ON UP TO BUNDYFEST! All 50,000+ Burning Man participants are invited to attend -- and as many more as can make the trip from anywhere in the world! 100,000? 250,000? THE SKY IS THE LIMIT AT BUNDYFEST! The desert surrounding Bundy's ranch is LIMITLESS!
4/23/14 12:56 PM
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attjack
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BUNDYFEST! Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 3:54 PM
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Ham and Egger
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Tidbits - 
UGCTT_Fillthy - 
beerbelly - 
droplogic - "Don't disobey the government and you won't have a problem" - OG liberals Phone Post 3.0
Last I checked, it wasn't conservatives that disobeyed the government during the civil rights movement or Vietnam war. Just saying. Phone Post 3.0

Ummmm...you do realize it was the Republicans that pushed the Civil Rights Act over the objections of the Democrats...right?

Republicans of the 60's would be "filthy liberals" by today's standards. Also the "Dixicrats" are who make up the Republicans of today.

and todays democrats would never accept Kennedys fiscal policies. He implemented across the board tax cuts, kept domestic spending low while ramping up military spending. When Galbraith argued against it, Kennedy sent him to India.


This thread is hilarious. I cant wait till we have a republican in office so all you guys will be anti government again.
4/23/14 3:56 PM
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Tidbits
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Ham and Egger - 
Tidbits - 
UGCTT_Fillthy - 
beerbelly - 
droplogic - "Don't disobey the government and you won't have a problem" - OG liberals Phone Post 3.0
Last I checked, it wasn't conservatives that disobeyed the government during the civil rights movement or Vietnam war. Just saying. Phone Post 3.0

Ummmm...you do realize it was the Republicans that pushed the Civil Rights Act over the objections of the Democrats...right?

Republicans of the 60's would be "filthy liberals" by today's standards. Also the "Dixicrats" are who make up the Republicans of today.

and todays democrats would never accept Kennedys fiscal policies. He implemented across the board tax cuts, kept domestic spending low while ramping up military spending. When Galbraith argued against it, Kennedy sent him to India.


This thread is hilarious. I cant wait till we have a republican in office so all you guys will be anti government again.

You are correct, and today's Republicans wouldn't accept Eisenhower's. Your point?

I was simply pointing out a historical fact.
4/23/14 4:06 PM
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droplogic
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"This thread is hilarious. I cant wait till we have a republican in office so all you guys will be anti government again."

No fuckin shit. It's ridiculous. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 4:39 PM
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Death and Taxes
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TrappeBier - Bundyfest in the no rules zone!



http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/219297/bundyfest-burning-man-guy-to-hold-month-long-music-fest-across-from-cliven-bundys-ranch/




Come celebrate TOTAL FREEDOM at BUNDYFEST, just across the road from the Cliven Bundy Ranch, in Bunkerville, Nevada! 240 bands, 24 hours a day, for a SOLID ROCKIN' MONTH!!!!



*NO PERMITS REQUIRED
*CAMP ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE
*FULL NUDITY NOT A PROBLEM
*GAY-FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE
*PENIS ERECTION CONTEST: Erect the largest penis in the open desert, win valuable prize! (tbd)



BACKGROUND: For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada. But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!



Why should Burning Man end on September 1st? Swing down to Vegas for a few days for some R&R, a few good buffets, and then HEAD ON UP TO BUNDYFEST! All 50,000+ Burning Man participants are invited to attend -- and as many more as can make the trip from anywhere in the world! 100,000? 250,000? THE SKY IS THE LIMIT AT BUNDYFEST! The desert surrounding Bundy's ranch is LIMITLESS!

There's a death and taxes mag??!?!

 

4/23/14 4:49 PM
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6ULDV8
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Thage - 
6ULDV8 - 

Again, I watched it live as it happened through ustream streams.  It was real people on the ground as it was happening and I watched it happen live.

 

Whatever.  If you guys are happy with what's happening with your country I'm happy for you for being so happy with it.

 

Enjoy your continued success America.  You're going nowhere but up on the world stage.  Have fun.


So it simply adds to the vast left wing conspiracy that there is no documented proof? The people who were streaming it don't also record it?

Everybody promised they were archiving, but I didn't go back to check.  I saw it live.

 

I am not going back to see if anyone archived for you idiots.  I am just telling you that the streamers I saw that night all promised that they did.

I reported it all live as it happened here: http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-Standoff-At-Nevada-Ranch

Also on ustream, but I don't have those chats.

 

Tell you what though, Americans standing up for themselves, en masse, choked me up. 

 

Power to the people, and forget all the petty shit.

4/23/14 4:54 PM
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attjack
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droplogic - "This thread is hilarious. I cant wait till we have a republican in office so all you guys will be anti government again."

No fuckin shit. It's ridiculous. Phone Post 3.0
Being anti government is what exposes your tard card. Governments are necessary. Disagree with certain policies fine but anti government? Then you're a loon. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 5:04 PM
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Ham and Egger
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attjack - 
droplogic - "This thread is hilarious. I cant wait till we have a republican in office so all you guys will be anti government again."

No fuckin shit. It's ridiculous. Phone Post 3.0
Being anti government is what exposes your tard card. Governments are necessary. Disagree with certain policies fine but anti government? Then you're a loon. Phone Post 3.0

Whatever you say brown shirt.
4/23/14 5:46 PM
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attjack
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^Tard card played. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 5:55 PM
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Ham and Egger
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attjack - ^Tard card played. Phone Post 3.0

Stop being intentionally obtuse. You know that we are talking about limited govt, not the state of nature. Or maybe its not intentional.
4/23/14 9:10 PM
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droplogic
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attjack -
droplogic - "This thread is hilarious. I cant wait till we have a republican in office so all you guys will be anti government again."

No fuckin shit. It's ridiculous. Phone Post 3.0
Being anti government is what exposes your tard card. Governments are necessary. Disagree with certain policies fine but anti government? Then you're a loon. Phone Post 3.0
Unlike you and your disgusting ilk I have been consistent. I was singing the same song when Bush was in office, both terms. My eyes are still open and you've flopped like the slimy fish you are. Phone Post 3.0

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