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UnderGround Forums >> Appalling strength & cond. routines of fighters


4/22/14 8:35 AM
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dubate
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allamerican85 - Really? No one is going to correct this man when he said Ivan Drago was in Rocky 3, when he was clearly in Rocky 4. That's some shameful shit guys. RIP Apollo Creed Phone Post 3.0
"YOU CAN'T WIN"


Nothing like the support of a woman. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/14 8:54 AM
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cg51mma
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BernardHopkins -
rnunz - 
BernardHopkins -

i just wonder why boxers can routinely fight 12 rounds and appear to have gas left

while top MMA contenders cant even make it 1, 5min round without breaking down

plenty of fighters gas out bad even in standup wars, so you cant really say its because mma has wrestling and clinch etc..

IMO a lot of mma fighters are very lazy and are nowhere near an elite professional athlete, even if they are top 10-20 in the ufc.

Have you ever grappled? Phone Post 3.0

yes 

and mma fighters are still lazy

i've been in the gym with decent pros and have consistently seen them skip grappling and muay thai/boxing classes and only want to spar because its fun

ive seen some complain when coaches make them train hard

what other sport can you have 10 fights in 2-3 years and make it to the big show?

these guys get used to brawling and beating up scrubs at the local level and a lot of them never develop proper training regimens. they get to the ufc and still have the same bad habits, same shitty coaches, and same work ethic

look at how many well known guys there are that have been in ufc for years and cant even wrestle or grapple, even though they know they should be training with legit guys

bisping has been in ufc like 10 years and still operates at a blue belt level and has no idea how to get off his back or defend a takedown and that fool has been begging for a title shot for years now...andddd ufc has him in a main event?

half these guys cant even throw a proper punch

its hard to watch mma these days. im starting to treat events like boxing and only tune in for the main event if its a big name or a really good fight between 2 guys who actually take it serious

 

 

What decent pros have youvtrained with? Your fkn trolling dude lol maybe some decent amateurs do the shit your tlkn about. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/14 9:13 AM
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Elias Cepeda
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Franklin has always had some of the very best conditioning in the sport so, whatever hes done has worked. Fighters must have the best conditioning training since they do the toughest workout of a sport. Sure, not everyone optimizes the way they should but neither do.junk.food eating athletes in other.major sports. Some guys and girls do it better than others, in every sport. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/14 9:15 AM
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LucasBTiger
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palfor03 - Tell us your scientific workout routine, professor Op. Phone Post 3.0
^ Phone Post 3.0
4/22/14 9:33 AM
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JoeHurley
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Boxers don't fight at the pace mma fighters do. In boxing they are pacing themselves and giving each other time to rest. No athlete can GI at a continuous pace for 12 rounds. That's why you see times where clinching and footwork in nothing is really happening. Take many of those same boxers and put them in a mma or grappling match and watch them gas. You think Pacquiao can really fight at mma pace with standing and groundwork for 12 rounds? Phone Post 3.0
4/22/14 10:39 AM
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eljamaiquino
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BernardHopkins -
dubate - 
BernardHopkins -

i just wonder why boxers can routinely fight 12 rounds and appear to have gas left

while top MMA contenders cant even make it 1, 5min round without breaking down

plenty of fighters gas out bad even in standup wars, so you cant really say its because mma has wrestling and clinch etc..

IMO a lot of mma fighters are very lazy and are nowhere near an elite professional athlete, even if they are top 10-20 in the ufc.

Because good footwork can help you "cheat" in boxing. A good boxer can go on about 60% effort and with good footwork avoid getting hit and even land enough punches to win the round, if he's really tired he can clinch and get a quick rest. If you clinch in MMA you have to keep your butt low (which is murder on the quads) while fighting off the takedown. The only real place to cheat and get a rest is in full guard and that only works if the other guys is tired as well. Phone Post 3.0

nick diaz has no footwork and could probably go 8 rounds in mma

whats the difference between him and all these guys that keep gassing?

i think its because he actually takes cardio serious and understands conditioning is more than just running 2 miles a day and training hard

hendricks was talking about how he wanted to beat GSP so bad that he ran 4 miles every morning

LOL @ that. nick diaz will spar 15 rounds then go run 5miles

freddie roach has manny pac run 8 miles slightly up hill on non sparring days during camp

there are a few mma guys that have legit cardio but not many

cain V has it figured out and what does everyone say about him? he has insane work ethic and outworks the little guys in the gym

when you train something long and hard enough, you get more conditioned at it, which is why its clear in MMA who trains right and who doesnt

goes back to what i said, lots of mma fighters are lazy and plenty gas out in standup fights with zero grappling or clinch involved

Nick Diaz cardio can't help him beat any of the top 5. Too much cardio focus at the expense of power. Cain can't stay healthy enough to even defend his title regularly. If your conditioning causes you to get ignored regularly, that's a fail. First rule is injury prevention first, then make improvements in strength and conditioning. If you're injured, you're not getting better. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/14 12:25 PM
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supersonic
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Some are saying that the nature of a boxing match allows for periods of rest. This may be true but it also certainly true in mma as well. Let's not pretend all MMa matches are truly grinds. Many are glorified low level sparring sessions.
4/22/14 12:58 PM
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Zeph
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You can't ignore the length of rounds. 3 mins and 1 min rest is a lot easier on cardio than 5 mins and 1 min rest.
4/22/14 12:59 PM
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lionsdentryout
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gammo2184 - 
i pee blood - Is MMA the pro sport with the worst strength and conditioning routines of fighters? I mean compared to NFL, NBA, Boxing, it seems like MMA fighters train with coaches who pulled their routines from the pages of Men's Health. I remember watching Rich Franklin's conditioning routine from WAY back with that grizzled ex marine guy, and it was absolutely ridiculous. A million reps of machine exercises done in a circuit. I mean what purpose can this serve him in a fight? how about addressing the different energy systems? how about periodization? Thank Vishnu, Rich managed to hook up with Joel Jamieson and got set up with a real routine.

However, the exercises all the Brazilian camps are doing makes Rich's routine about as scientific and structured as Ivan Drago's from Rocky 3.

I saw Paul Harris doing cleans (or was it high pulls) with terrible form for high reps, and a bench pressing/ leg pressing while Vitor Belfort's lucky he's been all sorts of TRT otherwise his shoulders would have fallen off already, and let's not forget BJ Penn's underwater rock lifting exercise.

The only pros that I have seen that seemed to display a modicum of technique in their lifts, and scientific basis behind their S&C routines have been GSP and Frankie Edgar.

I don't get how professional athletes who spend bundles of cash on skill based trainers always slack off on their S&C team or hire guys who have no idea what they're doing.

It seems that a lot of pros succeed in spite of their training, not because of it.



TL:DR, MMA fighters have terrible strength and conditioning programs
I think OP has a point! I am in my final year of a sports science degree and whilst I do not claim to knw everything it does appear that most so called "strength and conditioning" guys appear to focus mainly on the anaerobic system when it comes to MMA....and seem to totally ignore the aerobic system! Both go hand in hand...however u need a foundation after the anaerobic system drops off (as it always will) and if you haven't got it your done! I also think that there's a lot to be said for crossfit style coaches training athletes whilst not having a clue what they are doing. Phone Post 3.0

I agree with both of you guys. I just graduated with a degree in biomechanics and exercise physiology and I feel that the usual MMA S&C is atrocious and counterproductive to MMA fighting. Circuit training has to be the biggest joke of all.
4/22/14 1:06 PM
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lionsdentryout
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Edited: 04/22/14 1:07 PM
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@Willin: I hope you are referring to the usual S&C circuits most people think of when you say bro science. Sport and goal specific training is well understood and protocols exist which can maximize endurance or strength, or provide a compromise between the two. I do agree that the body is "dumb" to a degree as specific training elicits specific adaptive responses. You choose a goal adaptation and utilize the training method which causes it, no need to complicate things.
4/22/14 1:18 PM
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hubris
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BernardHopkins - 
dubate - 
BernardHopkins -

i just wonder why boxers can routinely fight 12 rounds and appear to have gas left

while top MMA contenders cant even make it 1, 5min round without breaking down

plenty of fighters gas out bad even in standup wars, so you cant really say its because mma has wrestling and clinch etc..

IMO a lot of mma fighters are very lazy and are nowhere near an elite professional athlete, even if they are top 10-20 in the ufc.

Because good footwork can help you "cheat" in boxing. A good boxer can go on about 60% effort and with good footwork avoid getting hit and even land enough punches to win the round, if he's really tired he can clinch and get a quick rest. If you clinch in MMA you have to keep your butt low (which is murder on the quads) while fighting off the takedown. The only real place to cheat and get a rest is in full guard and that only works if the other guys is tired as well. Phone Post 3.0

nick diaz has no footwork and could probably go 8 rounds in mma

whats the difference between him and all these guys that keep gassing?

i think its because he actually takes cardio serious and understands conditioning is more than just running 2 miles a day and training hard

hendricks was talking about how he wanted to beat GSP so bad that he ran 4 miles every morning

LOL @ that. nick diaz will spar 15 rounds then go run 5miles

freddie roach has manny pac run 8 miles slightly up hill on non sparring days during camp

there are a few mma guys that have legit cardio but not many

cain V has it figured out and what does everyone say about him? he has insane work ethic and outworks the little guys in the gym

when you train something long and hard enough, you get more conditioned at it, which is why its clear in MMA who trains right and who doesnt

goes back to what i said, lots of mma fighters are lazy and plenty gas out in standup fights with zero grappling or clinch involved


Nick Diaz ran out of gas when he fought GSP
4/22/14 1:24 PM
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wiggum
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JoeHurley - Boxers don't fight at the pace mma fighters do. In boxing they are pacing themselves and giving each other time to rest. No athlete can GI at a continuous pace for 12 rounds. That's why you see times where clinching and footwork in nothing is really happening. Take many of those same boxers and put them in a mma or grappling match and watch them gas. You think Pacquiao can really fight at mma pace with standing and groundwork for 12 rounds? Phone Post 3.0

I wasn't going to respond to Hopkins because it was so dumb but this post convinced me to simply because it's exactly right. I just wanted to voice my support
4/23/14 1:20 PM
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torquemada
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I was told by a pretty legit s&c coach that the real training during camp is much more traditional. Heavy basic lifts.
The routines you see on UFC primetime are mostly just for show.
Food for thought. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 1:36 PM
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dubate
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hubris -
BernardHopkins - 
dubate - 
BernardHopkins -

i just wonder why boxers can routinely fight 12 rounds and appear to have gas left

while top MMA contenders cant even make it 1, 5min round without breaking down

plenty of fighters gas out bad even in standup wars, so you cant really say its because mma has wrestling and clinch etc..

IMO a lot of mma fighters are very lazy and are nowhere near an elite professional athlete, even if they are top 10-20 in the ufc.

Because good footwork can help you "cheat" in boxing. A good boxer can go on about 60% effort and with good footwork avoid getting hit and even land enough punches to win the round, if he's really tired he can clinch and get a quick rest. If you clinch in MMA you have to keep your butt low (which is murder on the quads) while fighting off the takedown. The only real place to cheat and get a rest is in full guard and that only works if the other guys is tired as well. Phone Post 3.0

nick diaz has no footwork and could probably go 8 rounds in mma

whats the difference between him and all these guys that keep gassing?

i think its because he actually takes cardio serious and understands conditioning is more than just running 2 miles a day and training hard

hendricks was talking about how he wanted to beat GSP so bad that he ran 4 miles every morning

LOL @ that. nick diaz will spar 15 rounds then go run 5miles

freddie roach has manny pac run 8 miles slightly up hill on non sparring days during camp

there are a few mma guys that have legit cardio but not many

cain V has it figured out and what does everyone say about him? he has insane work ethic and outworks the little guys in the gym

when you train something long and hard enough, you get more conditioned at it, which is why its clear in MMA who trains right and who doesnt

goes back to what i said, lots of mma fighters are lazy and plenty gas out in standup fights with zero grappling or clinch involved


Nick Diaz ran out of gas when he fought GSP
No. He got stymied. There is a difference. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 2:16 PM
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hubris
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I'm a Nick Diaz fan but he got tired.

He said so himself.
4/23/14 4:25 PM
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BLPorritt
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In Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 6:08 PM
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Denis Kelly
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Black Belt, Melbourne, Aus

I think that some of the crazy S & C stuff you are referring too may have been set up to make the UFC countdown show's more interesting & provide variety rather than just showing everyone grappling, hitting pads etc.

I also have another controversial theory that within a few years additional strength & conditioning training will be virtually non existant in MMA. I think most of the knee injuries, shoulder injuries, back injuries etc, are caused by the extra weight training that fighters do. In the future managers & fighters will recognise that it doesn't make sense to spend 6 years of your 10 year fighting career either awaiting surgery or recovering from surgery & will focus their time instead on skill development (Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai)

 

4/23/14 6:39 PM
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sakurabasHeadBeatAronasKnee
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BernardHopkins -

i just wonder why boxers can routinely fight 12 rounds and appear to have gas left

while top MMA contenders cant even make it 1, 5min round without breaking down

plenty of fighters gas out bad even in standup wars, so you cant really say its because mma has wrestling and clinch etc..

IMO a lot of mma fighters are very lazy and are nowhere near an elite professional athlete, even if they are top 10-20 in the ufc.

Pahaha 3/10
Definitely nothin mg to do with energy systems Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 7:43 PM
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Bobby Lupo
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That S&C stuff you see on TV is like Muhammed Ali shadowboxing underwater. It's made up to look cool to sell the fight.

BJ Penn at his best an Bernard Hopkins in his late 40s use the same S&C guru. 

Rich Franklin had a great gastank. Maybe he was training muscle endurance in that show, or maybe it was just bullshit.

MMA guys tend not to do as much roadwork as boxers. I really believe that distance runs help with cardio and mental toughness. Fedor put in miles, Diaz put in miles, Tito put in miles at Big Bear after Frank Shamrock wore him out.

MMA is still young and there's still a TMA mindset of a super secret training formula that stains the sport and allows these gimmicks and training fads to flourish.

Ricky Hatton had the absolute worst S&C regimen ever and the guy could fight all night. He'd begin camp grossly overweight and spend HOURS jumping over a bar 2 or 3 feet in the air to lose the weight, then he'd bench and curl.

He did his real work when he put the gloves on and drilled and sparred. S&C was for making weight and sweating the ale and pies out. World champ and only lost to Pac and Mayweather. 

 

4/23/14 8:00 PM
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supersonic
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One thing that often isn't said when it comes to s&c training is some guys have a natural advantage . I'm speaking more of what we consider cardio. Just like some people are naturally stronger, faster, more flexible, etc....some have better cardio capabilities.

Just like you can't make everyone run a 4.4 40 or bench 40 regardless of training style, some people have shitty gas tanks. They can be improved upon but definitely have limitations.

And in fighting and sports in general manysay that fitness is tied to the mind as much as the body. I agree with this to a degree
4/23/14 8:10 PM
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sosy1325
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torquemada - I was told by a pretty legit s&c coach that the real training during camp is much more traditional. Heavy basic lifts.
The routines you see on UFC primetime are mostly just for show.
Food for thought. Phone Post 3.0

I have heard similar things.
4/23/14 8:20 PM
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cg51mma
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sosy1325 -
torquemada - I was told by a pretty legit s&c coach that the real training during camp is much more traditional. Heavy basic lifts.
The routines you see on UFC primetime are mostly just for show.
Food for thought. Phone Post 3.0

I have heard similar things.
Traditional workouts for any sport is what works the best. Bench clean squat core for explosiveness Sprints and miles for cardio thats proven to work. Anything else is just extra. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 8:41 PM
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mikethecricket
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I have the same questions as OP and BHopkins.
4/23/14 8:57 PM
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Silverball
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Bobby Lupo -

That S&C stuff you see on TV is like Muhammed Ali shadowboxing underwater. It's made up to look cool to sell the fight.

BJ Penn at his best an Bernard Hopkins in his late 40s use the same S&C guru. 

Rich Franklin had a great gastank. Maybe he was training muscle endurance in that show, or maybe it was just bullshit.

MMA guys tend not to do as much roadwork as boxers. I really believe that distance runs help with cardio and mental toughness. Fedor put in miles, Diaz put in miles, Tito put in miles at Big Bear after Frank Shamrock wore him out.

MMA is still young and there's still a TMA mindset of a super secret training formula that stains the sport and allows these gimmicks and training fads to flourish.

Ricky Hatton had the absolute worst S&C regimen ever and the guy could fight all night. He'd begin camp grossly overweight and spend HOURS jumping over a bar 2 or 3 feet in the air to lose the weight, then he'd bench and curl.

He did his real work when he put the gloves on and drilled and sparred. S&C was for making weight and sweating the ale and pies out. World champ and only lost to Pac and Mayweather. 

 

Solid post. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 10:01 PM
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wiggum
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sakurabasHeadBeatAronasKnee - 
BernardHopkins -

i just wonder why boxers can routinely fight 12 rounds and appear to have gas left

while top MMA contenders cant even make it 1, 5min round without breaking down

plenty of fighters gas out bad even in standup wars, so you cant really say its because mma has wrestling and clinch etc..

IMO a lot of mma fighters are very lazy and are nowhere near an elite professional athlete, even if they are top 10-20 in the ufc.

Pahaha 3/10
Definitely nothin mg to do with energy systems Phone Post 3.0

They weren't boxing. They were having a standup MMA fight. Two very different things.

Lupo is right about a key point: most conditioning comes in drilling and sparring.

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