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4/23/14 7:56 AM
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Tidbits
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Cliffs: Property records & geneaology show pretty convincingly that Cliven Bundy's story about his family's ancestral rights to the land are B.S.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/22/property-records-cast-doubt-on-cliven-bundys-ancestral-claims-to-disputed-federal-land/

Cliven Bundy likes to claim his family has been grazing cattle for more than 130 years on Nevada lands owned by the federal government.

“I’ve lived my lifetime here,” the rancher said. “My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements.”

But Clark County property records show Bundy’s parents bought the 160-acre ranch where he still lives in 1948, two years after he was born in Bundyville, Ariz. — the same year the Bureau of Land Management was created through executive order by President Harry Truman.


Water rights were also transferred to the ranch itself, but not the federally managed land surrounding it, and court records show the Bundy family began grazing cattle on that land in 1954, when Cliven was 8 years old.

U.S. District Judge Johnnie Rawlinson noted that date in his 1998 ruling, which held that Bundy would not be permitted to continue using the federal land because he had failed to pay required fees to the BLM.

“My rights are before the BLM even existed, but my rights are created by beneficial use,” Bundy argued. “Beneficial use means we created the forage and the water from the time the very first pioneers come here.”

KLAS-TV examined genealogy and property records against Bundy’s claims to land owned by the federal government since before Nevada became a state, in 1864.

The station reported census records show Bundy’s maternal grandmother, Christena Jensen, was born in Nevada in 1901, and records suggest she later helped settle Bunkerville, where her grandson lives.

No Bundys lived in Bunkerville according to 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census records, but the rancher’s maternal grandparents, John and Christena Jensen, homesteaded a few miles away, in Mesquite, where his mother was born in 1924.

Both of Bundy’s maternal great-grandparents were originally from Utah, and his paternal great-grandfather came to Arizona from Illinois. His paternal grandfather was born in Nebraska and lived in Arizona.

Bundy claims ancestral livestock water rights through his mother’s side of the family.

Federal grazing districts were established by Congress with the passage of the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, and the Las Vegas-area grazing district — which surrounds both Bunkerville and Mesquite — was established two years later.

Some of the militia members who have traveled to southern Nevada to offer armed support to the rancher have compared Bundy’s treatment by the federal government to the plight of Native Americans.

“They are literally treating western United States citizens, ranchers, rural folks like this are the modern-day Indians,” said Justin Giles, an Oathkeeper from Alaska. “We’re being driven off of our lands. We’re being forced into reservations known as cities.”

The Paiute Indians of Nevada were forced into reservations by federal troops in 1875 – two years after the tribe had been promised the same land where Cliven Bundy now grows melons and grazes cattle.
4/23/14 8:05 AM
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jettdogg
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Talk about going full retard
4/23/14 8:10 AM
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jettdogg
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I just saw the video of the brave militia wannabe talking about hiding behind women. Turds of a feather...
4/23/14 8:52 AM
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Tidbits
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I'm just waiting for this to be ignored or have the source attacked as a "left wing" site.
4/23/14 9:45 AM
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Cookie Monster
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The interesting thing that I have found about "old" records is that they indicate when things were first documented, not necessarily when they actually began. I'm not saying he is full of shit or telling the truth, but merely putting in my two cents based on my experience with old records. Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 10:13 AM
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bakobell
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I was kidding about jay carney. Even he doesn't take you seriously after you blow him.

But it's funny how you ignore Reid's part in this all just so he can sell out an Americans citizens land to the Chinese. But that wouldn't fit into your shill talking points now would it? Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 10:17 AM
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DoovyB
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i dont trust people who are always on the same side in every debate

4/23/14 10:23 AM
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sparkuri
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bakobell - I was kidding about jay carney. Even he doesn't take you seriously after you blow him.

But it's funny how you ignore Reid's part in this all just so he can sell out an Americans citizens land to the Chinese. But that wouldn't fit into your shill talking points now would it? Phone Post 3.0
You should see the video posted on the other thread a few minutes ago regarding the Chinese rumor.
Reid is dirty, sure, but proof is needed to convict Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 10:23 AM
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Tidbits
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DoovyB - 

i dont trust people who are always on the same side in every debate


You obviously missed where I was originally on Bundy's side, until information started to come out.
4/23/14 10:25 AM
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Tidbits
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Cookie Monster - The interesting thing that I have found about "old" records is that they indicate when things were first documented, not necessarily when they actually began. I'm not saying he is full of shit or telling the truth, but merely putting in my two cents based on my experience with old records. Phone Post 3.0

I agree but in this particular case there are 2 sets of records, one which pretty convincingly shows that his family was not in the are and when checked against the 2nd set, well.....
4/23/14 11:21 AM
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Lofland
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Does Bundy's side have any kind of serious response to the specific facts mentioned here?
4/23/14 11:29 AM
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sparkuri
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Tidbits -
DoovyB - 

i dont trust people who are always on the same side in every debate


You obviously missed where I was originally on Bundy's side, until information started to come out.
What information? Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 11:47 AM
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Bisping'sLazyEye
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What the actual fuck is a 'Bundy'?!? Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 11:50 AM
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Strandman
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Lofland - Does Bundy's side have any kind of serious response to the specific facts mentioned here?

Yes they do: "The federal government is evil!"
4/23/14 11:50 AM
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Aaron Becker
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Cookie Monster - The interesting thing that I have found about "old" records is that they indicate when things were first documented, not necessarily when they actually began. I'm not saying he is full of shit or telling the truth, but merely putting in my two cents based on my experience with old records. Phone Post 3.0

I haven't really thought about that before but makes a lot of sense hmmmm
4/23/14 11:51 AM
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Trust
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Mixed Martial Arts, L.L.C., Moderator

He has had ample days in court to make his case.  

No dispute about that.  

That still does not justify the government in sending in a militarized assault force.  

4/23/14 11:53 AM
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Mr. Wright
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Edited: 04/23/14 11:54 AM
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Trust - 

He has had ample days in court to make his case.  

No dispute about that.  

That still does not justify the government in sending in a militarized assault force.  

 


it does when he's threatened the Feds with a range war and implications that he's not afraid to have another "ruby ridge" or "waco" situation over his cattle.

4/23/14 11:56 AM
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Darup
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I didn't think many thought bundy was fully in the right. The support mainly comes from the backlash against the government for sending in a small army to take the man's cattle over where they were grazing. Phone Post
4/23/14 11:58 AM
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Mr. Wright
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Darup -  I didn't think many thought bundy was fully in the right. The support mainly comes from the backlash against the government for sending in a small army to take the man's cattle over where they were grazing. Phone Post

the guy threatened to kill anyone that touched his cattle. how else were they supposed to react?

4/23/14 12:05 PM
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Darup
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Mr. Wright -
Darup -  I didn't think many thought bundy was fully in the right. The support mainly comes from the backlash against the government for sending in a small army to take the man's cattle over where they were grazing. Phone Post

the guy threatened to kill anyone that touched his cattle. how else were they supposed to react?

Probably anything other than send in a small army and then leave without accomplishing anything. Phone Post
4/23/14 12:12 PM
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Mr. Wright
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Darup - 
Mr. Wright -
Darup -  I didn't think many thought bundy was fully in the right. The support mainly comes from the backlash against the government for sending in a small army to take the man's cattle over where they were grazing. Phone Post

the guy threatened to kill anyone that touched his cattle. how else were they supposed to react?

Probably anything other than send in a small army and then leave without accomplishing anything. Phone Post

you're going to have to do better than that.

the guy's ignored court orders for 20+ years, threatened to shoot/kill anyone that went on his property and openly talked of having a range war with the Feds. what, in your opinion, should the Feds have done to stop Bundys cattle from grazing on public land and collect the fees/penalties in excess of 1 million dollars?

4/23/14 12:15 PM
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Darup
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Mr. Wright -
Darup - 
Mr. Wright -
Darup -  I didn't think many thought bundy was fully in the right. The support mainly comes from the backlash against the government for sending in a small army to take the man's cattle over where they were grazing. Phone Post

the guy threatened to kill anyone that touched his cattle. how else were they supposed to react?

Probably anything other than send in a small army and then leave without accomplishing anything. Phone Post

you're going to have to do better than that.

the guy's ignored court orders for 20+ years, threatened to shoot/kill anyone that went on his property and openly talked of having a range war with the Feds. what, in your opinion, should the Feds have done to stop Bundys cattle from grazing on public land and collect the fees/penalties in excess of 1 million dollars?

First the million dollar number isn't true. Second if he really back taxes why isn't the government arresting him for tax evasion? Taking his cows doesn't solve anything especially taking them by force. Like we saw it just escalates the situation and makes the government look really bad. Phone Post
4/23/14 12:17 PM
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opencipher
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Is Bundy going to give the land back to the Native Americans that were pushed off of it and on to reservations prior to anyone staking "claim" to it.........
4/23/14 12:26 PM
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Greenup
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bakobell - Yay another tidbitch shill thread. Give it up already. No one besides jettdog and pulsar take you seriously. Well except maybe jay carney after you blow him. Phone Post 3.0
Lol Phone Post 3.0
4/23/14 12:28 PM
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Animal Mother
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I don't know much about this, but as far as the law goes how is this guy anything but a welfare rancher? I don't understand the support for him. Please esplain. Phone Post 3.0

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